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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:09:29 PM EDT
[#1]
My physics teacher in high school, who was a Priest and a Physicist, had a great simplified explanation.
Imagine a bucket of water. You see concentric waves in the surface of the water radiating outward from a central point. You can hear the sound of the waves echoing as they hit the sides of the bucket. The waves and sounds match up to what would happen if a drop of water hit the surface at the center of the water bucket. You don't see the actual drop hit the surface of the water, but everyone that sees the evidence agrees that it looks like a drop of water hit the surface and caused the waves and sounds. Science does not tell us if the drop was one drop or a series of drops. It does not tell us if the drop is a random or a single specific targeted drop. It does not tell us if it was a rain drop or a drop from God's hands. It just tells us that in theory, it looks, acts, and quacks like a drop hit the water in the bucket. Also, when the concepts around the Big Bang first came out a hundred years ago, the Vatican said it was empirical proof of God and Creationism. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:16:56 PM EDT
[#2]
What if God created the expansion or bang to create the earth ?
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:30:46 PM EDT
[#3]
1. In the beginning God spoke creation into existence.
Or 2. In the beginning there was nothing and then it exploded. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:31:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if God created the expansion or bang to create the earth ? What if fairy's did it? What if the flying spaghetti monster did it? What if we don't know how or why it happened? How do we investigate our reality to find out? How did you come to the conclusion god did it? |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:32:40 PM EDT
[#5]
I think anyone who believes this world is the result of a random cosmic event is walking through said world with their eyes closed.
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:33:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if god did it? What if fairy's did it? What if the flying spaghetti monster did it? What if we don't know how or why it happened? How do we investigate our reality to find out? How did you come to the conclusion god did it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What if God created the expansion or bang to create the earth ? What if fairy's did it? What if the flying spaghetti monster did it? What if we don't know how or why it happened? How do we investigate our reality to find out? How did you come to the conclusion god did it? You seem triggered……… |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:35:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Statistically nothing in our universe is random (p<0.05)
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:35:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Kapow or magic?
People that believe either without question are silly. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:38:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kapow or magic? People that believe either without question are silly. IMO, people that invest time thinking about either one are silly. It is pretty much irrelevant. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:39:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Things left alone with no intervening factors always deteriorate they fall apart they do not go...... BANG....POOF and create something new and better. Creating something new and better takes conscious thought and action. I'm entirely OK with the idea that God created the heaven and the earth. On the other hand I'm not sure he is in need of high finance because He can create whatever He wants.
God seems to work differently than you might expect. "Luie 3.1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene, 2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness." We have a list here of all the most important people of that time, but that's not who God hung out with. (the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.) ..... UMMM who?..... Yea ... some guy named JOHN, well who is John? .... You know John the son of Zacharias.... OK ..... where was it.... the Super Church.... no God came to him in the........ wilderness. Note Jesus throwing over the tables of the money changers in the Temple and having issues with the people who thought themselves to be the most important religious leaders ...Scribes & Pharisees. God is still waiting for some of you in the wilderness where it can just be you and Him. And you can imagine how things went for Noah... building an Ark....... Hi, Noah, what you building? ..... An Ark ..... Ummmm don't you think it would be better to build that closer to the ocean? ...... No God told me to build it and everyone needs to get in the Ark or you're going to drown because water is going to fall right out of the sky... Yea right dude.... Noah ... what are you doing putting all those animals in your Ark surely you don't expect us to get in there with them..... God's ways are different than mans ways, but he has an amazing sense of humor, and He's still waiting for some of you in the wilderness. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:40:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You seem triggered |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:40:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think anyone who believes this world is the result of a random cosmic event is walking through said world with their eyes closed. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:44:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay. God came from? The never ending question. We can't figure it out with our small brains. Man is an arrogant species to think we can figure out anything really. Go back 2500 years and mention the name Jesus Christ and people will look at you and ask, "Who"? Anywhere on the planet. The Bible wasn't even written until what, the 3rd century? Nobody ever looks at things from that perspective. We know next to nothing, and will remain to know next to nothing at least in our lifetimes. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:45:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All prayer is answered. The answer may be yes, no or not yet. Just my opinion, and worth what you paid for it. If I'm wrong, what have I lost? |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:47:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not even a little bit. I like the discussion. I'm interested to find out why people believe what they do, and if they have good reason. I'd very much like to learn that god is in fact real. I have not yet been presented with sufficient evidence. Do you have any? I'm more than willing to change my mind. Please provide evidence that a god exists. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You seem triggered Regarding discussion, so do I, however, we both know there is no “proof” one way or the other, just theories and hypothesis or faith. I’m not sure how or why it happened but I do have a thirst for knowledge and am open to any plausible explanation or facts. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:50:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not even a little bit. I like the discussion. I'm interested to find out why people believe what they do, and if they have good reason. I'd very much like to learn that god is in fact real. I have not yet been presented with sufficient evidence. Do you have any? I'm more than willing to change my mind. Please provide evidence that a god exists. Or that it had anything to do with our universe and it's beginning. Hold you hand up.... close your eyes.... is your hand still there? You have FAITH that your hand is still there even when you cannot see it. In fact you have FAITH that lots of things exist even though they may not be where you can see them. With God He has promised " Seek and you will Find". God is perfectly capable of proving to you that He exists. I don't have to argue it. I couldn't possibly prove it to you by myself, but HE can prove it to you. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:51:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The never ending question. We can't figure it out with our small brains. Man is an arrogant species to think we can figure out anything really. Go back 2500 years and mention the name Jesus Christ and people will look at you and ask, "Who"? Anywhere on the planet. The Bible wasn't even written until what, the 3rd century? Nobody ever looks at things from that perspective. We know next to nothing, and will remain to know next to nothing at least in our lifetimes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Okay. God came from? The never ending question. We can't figure it out with our small brains. Man is an arrogant species to think we can figure out anything really. Go back 2500 years and mention the name Jesus Christ and people will look at you and ask, "Who"? Anywhere on the planet. The Bible wasn't even written until what, the 3rd century? Nobody ever looks at things from that perspective. We know next to nothing, and will remain to know next to nothing at least in our lifetimes. Theists claim that everything had a beginning. Except God. That creation needs a creator. But somehow god is exempt from such creation, and has somehow always been. I'm asking how that's logically possible? |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:54:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The never ending question. We can't figure it out with our small brains. Man is an arrogant species to think we can figure out anything really. Go back 2500 years and mention the name Jesus Christ and people will look at you and ask, "Who"? Anywhere on the planet. The Bible wasn't even written until what, the 3rd century? Nobody ever looks at things from that perspective. We know next to nothing, and will remain to know next to nothing at least in our lifetimes. Wrong. We know a lot and our minds aren't small. Well, obviously some of ours are. Problem 87 with Abrahamic belief systems, confuse arrogance with knowledge and disguise it with self humility. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:54:29 PM EDT
[#19]
You don't have to be a Christian to admit the big bang theory is idiotic nonsense.
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:57:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The opportunity cost of not believing in the right God. Pascals wager  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:58:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't have to be a Christian to admit the big bang theory is idiotic nonsense. Be sure to fax in your findings to the Nobel committee. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:58:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hold you hand up.... close your eyes.... is your hand still there? You have FAITH that your hand is still there even when you cannot see it. In fact you have FAITH that lots of things exist even though they may not be where you can see them. With God He has promised " Seek and you will Find". God is perfectly capable of proving to you that He exists. I don't have to argue it. I couldn't possibly prove it to you by myself, but HE can prove it to you. I have sought. I have not found. If your god exists, he doesn't want me to know he exists, or he doesn't want me to know yet. Because there is not yet sufficient evidence to believe. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:01:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Regarding discussion, so do I, however, we both know there is no "proof" one way or the other, just theories and hypothesis or faith. I'm not sure how or why it happened but I do have a thirst for knowledge and am open to any plausible explanation or facts. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:02:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it just theoretical and cannot be proven…..ok, gotcha. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Neither side can PROVE their case. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/9341/93EF6450-F676-4DEB-810F-D632DF907EC8_jpe-2193617.JPG You can never prove a theory, you modify it based on facts as they are discovered. At least on the science side, new information is always being discovered. On the other side they have an old book. So it just theoretical and cannot be proven…..ok, gotcha. You're trying to have a conversation using words you don't understand........ok, gotcha. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:03:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Would you have a problem if God was about a person from the Orion Belt?
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:04:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would you have a problem if God was about a person from the Orion Belt? |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:04:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're trying to have a conversation using words you don't understand........ok, gotcha. As noted earlier, it's standard that GD doesn't know the difference between the laymen "theory" and "scientific theory." |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:07:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct. So do I. So I can only go with the most reasonable explanation we have now. Subject to change. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Regarding discussion, so do I, however, we both know there is no "proof" one way or the other, just theories and hypothesis or faith. I'm not sure how or why it happened but I do have a thirst for knowledge and am open to any plausibl explanation or facts. The most reasonable explanation that fits your life choices. You are not the arbitrator of reason. If by we you mean me, count me out. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:07:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As noted earlier, it's standard that GD doesn't know the difference between the laymen "theory" and "scientific theory." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You're trying to have a conversation using words you don't understand........ok, gotcha. As noted earlier, it's standard that GD doesn't know the difference between the laymen "theory" and "scientific theory." Yeah. Le' sigh. 
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:16:18 PM EDT
[#30]
A billion years is hard to wrap your head around.
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:16:33 PM EDT
[#31]
After surviving taco night at the local bar, but a few patrons not, I believe anything could be the result of a random explosion, from the universe to my britches.
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:18:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't have to be a Christian to admit the big bang theory is idiotic nonsense. What part/parts of the theory do you find nonsensical? It is a theory of physics that is very widely accepted and backed with a significant amount of data and research. It does have holes, not a pun, but it's the best working model of the universe so far. Most people don't have a true understanding of the theory and how it applies, mostly because the scientific use of language does not always align with the common use of language. I also don't see how the theory and data conflict with biblical views on God. Some scientists don't believe in God, but the theory itself is equally as supportive of Creationism as it is Evolutionism. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:18:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is the best model that we have to explain things currently, since everything outside of our galaxy is moving away from us faster than the speed of light. What led up to it, and what started the expansion is anyone's guess. Edit: Beat by a few seconds with a lot more detail  .Everything outside of our Galaxy is not moving away from us faster than light. The Andromeda Galaxy is moving towards us and some believe we are already starting to merge with it. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:19:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A billion years is hard to wrap your head around. An ant is hard to wrap your head around. A steak and potato is manageable. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:22:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The most reasonable explanation that fits your life choices. You are not the arbitrator of reason. If by we you mean me, count me out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Regarding discussion, so do I, however, we both know there is no "proof" one way or the other, just theories and hypothesis or faith. I'm not sure how or why it happened but I do have a thirst for knowledge and am open to any plausibl explanation or facts. The most reasonable explanation that fits your life choices. You are not the arbitrator of reason. If by we you mean me, count me out. If you use technology, your using science. Drive a car, science. Fly in a plane, science. Imagine there's a magical man in the sky who cares if you masturbate? Religion. You don't want to be a we, don't use technology. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:27:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay. Do me a favor. Log off the internet. Turn off your phone. Now, communicate with me using the bible. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Regarding discussion, so do I, however, we both know there is no "proof" one way or the other, just theories and hypothesis or faith. I'm not sure how or why it happened but I do have a thirst for knowledge and am open to any plausibl explanation or facts. The most reasonable explanation that fits your life choices. You are not the arbitrator of reason. If by we you mean me, count me out. Do me a favor, fart out a universe. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:28:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do me a favor, fart out a universe. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:34:17 PM EDT
[#38]
I think this kind of debate is pretty tiresome. Go outside; hell go somewhere dark on a clear night. Just spend time looking up; even with binoculars you won't be bored. It's sure as hell a better us of time than arguing this crap.
No matter what you believe; it's all out there to look at and enjoy. IMO It's all rather beautiful no matter how it got here. If you want to feel even more insignificant...  Attached File Attached FileNo idea how it all got here; all we can do is try to make sense of it. We are literally here in the blink of an eye. BUt I honestly don't believe we are alone in the universe. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:34:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do me a favor, fart out a universe. Thank you. You want to know the meaning of life, the universe and everything? To bad, you fucking can’t, now do good things and right the wrongs that you can. Nothing else matters, it is a distraction, and it is still just as meaningless to you if you could understand it. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:41:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you. You want to know the meaning of life, the universe and everything? To bad, you fucking can't, now do good things and right the wrongs that you can. Nothing else matters, it is a distraction, and it is still just as meaningless to you if you could understand it. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:49:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: No it's obvious God is real and is the architect of the Universe. Quoted: Yeah, six days is far more plausible. agreeing. I see intelligent design everywhere and there is no way you could convince me that a random explosion billions of years ago led to our planet being here, in exactly the right place to support life as we are. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:49:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mystical omnipotent sky daddy is so much better. ITT we see members who don't understand the scientific method of constantly testing a hypothesis and tweaking said hypothesis based on ever evolving evidence. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:49:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, okay then. I don't think we're going to make any meaningful progress. Have a good one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thank you. You want to know the meaning of life, the universe and everything? To bad, you fucking can't, now do good things and right the wrongs that you can. Nothing else matters, it is a distraction, and it is still just as meaningless to you if you could understand it. Well if you could explain why inert organic chemicals have decided to organize into trillions of cells to become animate beings be sure to write it down. Kinda doubt it is forthcoming, but I do enjoy a good creation myth. I’m a simple man, before I can accept your explanation for the creation of the zodiacal lights, you have to explain the little things like how chemicals create consciousness. Otherwise you are just talking past the sell. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 12:57:14 AM EDT
[#44]
For me it’s easier to believe that something created this world rather than nothing did. I can’t fathom knowing where God came from or how so I understand people not believing. But that aside believing in the big bang or evolution is a starting point that conveniently starts with a lot of things miraculously already in place, so those actually sound foolish to me.
So to me it’s easier to believe something greater created the world. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 1:02:39 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think this kind of debate is pretty tiresome. Go outside; hell go somewhere dark on a clear night. Just spend time looking up; even with binoculars you won't be bored. It's sure as hell a better us of time than arguing this crap. No matter what you believe; it's all out there to look at and enjoy. IMO It's all rather beautiful no matter how it got here. If you want to feel even more insignificant... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/333164/GChart1_jpg-2193929.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/333164/GChart2__2__jpg-2193930.JPG No idea how it all got here; all we can do is try to make sense of it. We are literally here in the blink of an eye. BUt I honestly don't believe we are alone in the universe.  Galaxy Size Comparison | 3D Universe Size Comparisons There is a song about that... apparently... |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 1:20:43 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For me it’s easier to believe that something created this world rather than nothing did. I can’t fathom knowing where God came from or how so I understand people not believing. But that aside believing in the big bang or evolution is a starting point that conveniently starts with a lot of things miraculously already in place, so those actually sound foolish to me. So to me it’s easier to believe something greater created the world. I can understand people rejecting religion as a tool of mind control made to collectivize societies in order to extract compliance and wealth. Religion is an appeal to authority fallacy. A technology of the mind But then so is a lot of science. Which makes it not science at all. Conflating material science and engineering with social science or theoretical physics is like conflating brain surgery with chiropractic medicine or hypnotheraputics |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 1:34:54 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know if there is a God. I don't know if there isn't a God. Big Bang? Evolution? Sure. Whatever. Divine Creation? Sure. Whatever. What I struggle with is the fact that humans are self aware. How did we get that? We have this miraculous ability to question our own existence and origin. Do animals do that? Does any other living thing do that? How the hell did we get to where we are intellectually? I'm not saying there is or isn't a God, but it sure is curious that we have these insane analytical abilities. We can read. We have math. We recognize that there is science. We've left our planet. Monkeys don't do that. I want to know where all of that stuff came from. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 1:41:07 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think about this a lot. The intuition to ponder your own mortality and the inevitable death of your loves ones is probably the cruelst thing I can imagine if it was imparted on us by some sort of divine being. Faith is hard, and if God does exist then we won't have any answers until we die and maybe not even then. I have a very hard time with this, and to be perfectly honest it makes me resent God for not giving us some kind of inspiration. He was performing miracles and directly becoming involved in our lives according the Bible, but now he's silent. So who knows. And who are you (edit: the OP) to question the origins of the universe anyway? Maybe God does exist and the oldest evidence our best and brightest minds have of the creation of the universe indicates the "Big Bang". Why does that make you angry or question your faith? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't know if there is a God. I don't know if there isn't a God. Big Bang? Evolution? Sure. Whatever. Divine Creation? Sure. Whatever. What I struggle with is the fact that humans are self aware. How did we get that? We have this miraculous ability to question our own existence and origin. Do animals do that? Does any other living thing do that? How the hell did we get to where we are intellectually? I'm not saying there is or isn't a God, but it sure is curious that we have these insane analytical abilities. We can read. We have math. We recognize that there is science. We've left our planet. Monkeys don't do that. I want to know where all of that stuff came from. It makes me roll my eyes because it is clearly a thinly veiled rewrite of cell replication once an egg is fertilized. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 2:01:27 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe life on earth is a product of God our creator. I believe marxism is a product of satan the liar and destroyer. Agreed. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 2:04:10 AM EDT
[#50]
I always assumed I was created by an explosion!
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