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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:49:26 AM EDT
[#1]
Probably one of the "rights" you give away when purchasing a hunting/fishing license.
Just guessing |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:50:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Fish Cops have far worse than that .
I lost respect for them decades ago . gd |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:51:19 AM EDT
[#3]
Game Wardens do have more rights to search than standard LEO's
Remember it is the kings deer....fish.....etc Red |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:51:26 AM EDT
[#4]
It’s called the open fields doctrine. Wildlife officers can go onto private property to enforce wildlife laws. They cannot however enter your house without a warrant or permission.
Think about it, if they couldn’t venture onto private property it would be damn near impossible to enforce game laws, especially in states with very little public land. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:51:51 AM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:51:56 AM EDT
[#6]
King's men doing King's men things, plus poaching The King's deer is down right treason.
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:52:02 AM EDT
[#7]
Pretty much. In most states it seems like they have more authority than an actual lawman.
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:52:21 AM EDT
[#8]
I don't know the answer, but I've always known game wardens can do whatever they want for any reason. That's why everybody hates them.
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:52:43 AM EDT
[#9]
They have sent fish cops in to known drug houses to look for wildlife violations and they then found drugs. A judge was on standby for an instant warrant. The Sherrifs then entered seconds later.
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:53:49 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know the answer, but I've always known game wardens can do whatever they want for any reason. That's why everybody hates them. The fact that a whole lot of them are arrogant shitheels doesn’t help much either. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:54:06 AM EDT
[#11]
I wonder this to. You also see the texas rabbit police show I think its called Lone Star Law that they appear to be able to stop and search a boat for no reason and no one objects to them searching the boat. Why is a boat different from a car?
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:54:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Years ago when I hunted the archery season religiously, the local game wardens were class A pricks.
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:55:02 AM EDT
[#13]
As it stands, law enforcement can search a lot of property that is "freely accessible", but once you go past a door threshold, they need a warrant. Property lines don't do shit, closed door, and then it becomes a 4th amendment issue.
That being said, somehow it seems like fish and game in many places are some brazen bastards about the 4th amendment and "the kings deer". |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:55:30 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fish Cops have far worse than that . I lost respect for them decades ago . gd Yep, the "safety checks" they conduct are pretty much an illegal search. Imagine if a real cop could make you turn over your car for life jackets, a whistle, and a paddle, in addition to license and registration. I have run across good ones, but many are complete pricks. I have never met a cop with a complex as bad as the average game warden. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:55:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have sent fish cops in to known drug houses to look for wildlife violations and they then found drugs. A judge was on standby for an instant warrant. The Sherrifs then entered seconds later. My buddy was a deputy for a rural county here in Idaho and this was SOP. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:56:24 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder this to. You also see the texas rabbit police show I think its called Lone Star Law that they appear to be able to stop and search a boat for no reason and no one objects to them searching the boat. Why is a boat different from a car? If there’s a fishing rod visible, everyone on the boat is “fishing” It’s fucking absurd. I’ve been pulled over by the same fish cop twice in 5 minutes. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:56:26 AM EDT
[#17]
The Game & Fish here in Arkansas got slapped hard by the courts. A pair of Wardens were sitting off in the distance watching a group of Duck hunters at their camp(not a hunting blind) early in the morning. After watching a while they decided to just walk in to the camp and check licenses. Again they weren't hunting at the time. One of the guys said his license was in his truck. While he went to fetch it they decided to call in on all. Turns out the one who was fetching his license was a felon. So they arrested him as felon in possession of a weapon. Fast forward where the guy challenged them and went to court. Both the Arkansas Court of Appeals and Supreme Court overturned the arrest because the Wardens had no probable cause. Huge case for us gun guys here in Arkansas. Especially since we are permitless carry now.
I have heard of many cases where people get cited for something that's not against any laws and the people just pay the fine to be done with it. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:56:30 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, the "safety checks" they conduct are pretty much an illegal search. Imagine if a real cop could make you turn over your car for life jackets, a whistle, and a paddle, in addition to license and registration. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Fish Cops have far worse than that . I lost respect for them decades ago . gd Yep, the "safety checks" they conduct are pretty much an illegal search. Imagine if a real cop could make you turn over your car for life jackets, a whistle, and a paddle, in addition to license and registration. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 10:56:44 AM EDT
[#19]
The Fourth Amendment doesn't generally apply to "plain sight" observations made outside.
If the public can go there, generally LE can go as well. In some states (New Hampshire being one, as I'm assuming you're talking about that state) you need to take positive steps to prevent people from going on your land for criminal trespassing to apply. Fenced in areas, posted with "No Trespassing" signs, or personally communicating to the individual. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:00:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryYes, sadly the federal courts have not applied 4th Am. protections to anything outside the curtilage of one's home. At some point, open fields will turn to curtilage, and there's a bunch of different cases interpreting where that is, depending on the particular facts, outbuildings, how it appears, etc. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:01:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s called the open fields doctrine. Wildlife officers can go onto private property to enforce wildlife laws. They cannot however enter your house without a warrant or permission. Think about it, if they couldn’t venture onto private property it would be damn near impossible to enforce game laws, especially in states with very little public land. Open Fields applies to all law enforcement, not Game Wardens. Game Wardens have zero additional constitutional authority over any other form of government. Depending on the state and the agency, they may have more or less statutory authority, but state law cannot allow for the violation of constitutional rights. Edit; In this thread we will get to hear about all kinds of things that never happened, and analysis of case law by folks who have no clue how anything works. These are always fun discussions. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:05:25 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Seat Belt Laws" "Busted Tail light" Sure, I am opposed to primary seat belt laws. I have been pulled over for no front plate many times, but never searched. Fish cops conduct some type of search with almost every contact, even if you aren't in a vehicle. But how many times have you seen a cop search every single car that goes by? It is common to see a warden set up a "safety check" and hit every boat that goes in or takes out at a ramp. I don't carry fishing rods now except for in my fishing boat, because they can turn over the whole boat looking for the kings fish if you have gear. This is why people dislike wardens. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:05:29 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Open Fields applies to all law enforcement, not Game Wardens. Game Wardens have zero additional constitutional authority over any other form of government. Depending on the state and the agency, they may have more or less statutory authority, but state law cannot allow for the violation of constitutional rights. Edit; In this thread we will get to hear about all kinds of things that never happened, and analysis of case law by folks who have no clue how anything works. These are always fun discussions. I beg to differ. Simply being on the water is, apparently, PC for a stop. Simply being on the road is not (theoretically). |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:11:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Fourth Amendment doesn't generally apply to "plain sight" observations made outside. If the public can go there, generally LE can go as well. In some states (New Hampshire being one, as I'm assuming you're talking about that state) you need to take positive steps to prevent people from going on your land for criminal trespassing to apply. Fenced in areas, posted with "No Trespassing" signs, or personally communicating to the individual. It’s regulatory/case law, just looking for the right challenge in my opinion. In Georgia, Mr. Green Jeans will cross fences with posted signs on them. For the right case, in a state that will fight it, there could be one hell of a Supreme Court case to be made. Oliver v US was not a good case as evidenced by the court upholding the “law”. Hopefully there are some attorneys looking out for the right case. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:11:21 AM EDT
[#25]
In general, warrantless searches are presumptively unreasonable under the fourth amendment. Marshall v. Barlow's, Inc., 436 U.S. 307 (1978); See v. City of Seattle, 387 U.S. 541 (1967). Exceptions exist, however, to this presumption in certain "carefully defined classes of cases." See Barlow's; Camara v. Municipal Court, 387 U.S. 523 (1967). Traditionally, these cases have concerned industries that have a history of pervasive governmental regulation and close supervision where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, or 228*228 industries involved in activities affecting particularly important governmental interests.[5] In these cases, a warrantless search is presumptively reasonable. See Note, Constitutional Law Fourth Amendment Propriety of Warrantless Searches by OSHA Inspectors, 1979 Wis. L. Rev. 815. Emphasis added. WI Supreme Court thinks that any activity you're doing that falls under the DNR's authority to regulate meets that definition. All the warden has to do is make a claim that you did something that made him suspicious you were participating in an activity (lawful or otherwise) that falls under his purview and presto, constitution smonstitution. Whether it's your vehicle, or your freezer, or your boat or anything else they think you could possibly hide evidence of wrongdoing in. A cop needs probable cause that commission of a crime has occurred. This above is like saying police only need probable cause that you're participating in an activity they're responsible for policing whether lawfully or not. 
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:12:39 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Game & Fish here in Arkansas got slapped hard by the courts. A pair of Wardens were sitting off in the distance watching a group of Duck hunters at their camp(not a hunting blind) early in the morning. After watching a while they decided to just walk in to the camp and check licenses. Again they weren't hunting at the time. One of the guys said his license was in his truck. While he went to fetch it they decided to call in on all. Turns out the one who was fetching his license was a felon. So they arrested him as felon in possession of a weapon. Fast forward where the guy challenged them and went to court. Both the Arkansas Court of Appeals and Supreme Court overturned the arrest because the Wardens had no probable cause. Huge case for us gun guys here in Arkansas. Especially since we are permitless carry now. I have heard of many cases where people get cited for something that's not against any laws and the people just pay the fine to be done with it. I didn't know that. I know people that were fined for hunting without a license just for sitting in deer camp without a rifle or anything. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:13:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I beg to differ. Simply being on the water is, apparently, PC for a stop. Simply being on the road is not (theoretically). There are a lot of intricacies to boat safety inspections. As an anecdotal example, the city I live in owns four lakes. In order to put a boat on the water in one of these lakes, you much purchase a city permit. The purchase of that permit includes a proviso that you agree to have the required safety equipment, and to allow safety inspections upon request. Safety inspections are not searches, and are no different than a DOT Inspection performed on commercial vehicles. As for boat searches....you kinda got your legal terms discombobulated. Probable Cause is not required for a vehicle, or boat, stop. Reasonable Suspicion, however, is. Reasonable Suspicion permits the detention, and if Probable Cause is established, the vehicle exception of the search warrant rule applies. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:16:11 AM EDT
[#28]
Everyone hates fish cops.
A girlfriend's son in law was a bit of a wild child. His brother was a stick up his butt fish cop. The SIL lived in North Dakota and came home for 4th of July at his dad's lake house. He woke up in the morning, went to the dock and dropped a line in the water, just like old times. Brother came down, ticket book in hand and asked him if he had a license. SIL said no, and if you start writing, I will kill you and no one will find your body. It was the coldest, most matter of fact pronouncement I had ever heard. And I believed him. So did his brother. They don't really talk much anymore. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:16:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If there’s a fishing rod visible, everyone on the boat is “fishing” It’s fucking absurd. I’ve been pulled over by the same fish cop twice in 5 minutes. 4 times in 3 days, deer hunting 15 yrs ago. I had the same gun, plug still in. Only 1 day I had a different gun, 1400 win. Asks me "got a plug in that?" No officer. He gets all excited, then finds out that a 1400 win only holds 2 shells in the tube. Wasn't so "jubilant" after that.
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:16:56 AM EDT
[#30]
The show is scripted like the others. The old couple in the OP was the fish cop’s Memaw and Pawpaw.
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:17:43 AM EDT
[#31]
The Lacy Act is basically a 4th amendment invalidator. Based on my discussions with some of arf esteemed cops, they don't see to give a shit about the 4th amendment either.
https://www.fws.gov/international/laws-treaties-agreements/us-conservation-laws/lacey-act.html |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:20:22 AM EDT
[#32]
Possum Police
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:20:41 AM EDT
[#33]
I’ve never had a pleasant interaction with a game warden. My 1st encounter was about 16. Routine check of fishing license turned into an hour long lecture. Several deer hunts interrupted be a game warden checking licenses/deer tags. Range trip turned into firearms serial #’s being checked. Duck hunting adventure halted by game warden checking licenses and plugs in shotguns. Almost always they had condescending attitudes like dealing with some gun counter salespeople.
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:25:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never had a pleasant interaction with a game warden. My 1st encounter was about 16. Routine check of fishing license turned into an hour long lecture. Several deer hunts interrupted be a game warden checking licenses/deer tags. Range trip turned into firearms serial #'s being checked. Duck hunting adventure halted by game warden checking licenses and plugs in shotguns. Almost always they had condescending attitudes like dealing with some gun counter salespeople. 16 and fishing for suckers without a license. Suckers are basically carp, and removing them from the water is a service not a privilege, imo (then and now). Warden came up on us and chatted. Never asked us for our license and left. The rest of my interactions with them have led me to believe the number that have the critical thinking ability and ethical compass to actually utilize their discretion in such a way is 1 in 100. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:25:43 AM EDT
[#35]
I worked with a guy whos father shot a game warden in the leg in Kentucky or some where around there. Guys father was walking around the edge of his property, not during hunting season and had a 30-30 on him. The game warden drove by and saw him and pulled over. Across the fence the game warden was accusing him of poaching. The game warden started to cross the fence the guy put a bullet in the ground and told him if another foot crosses the fence he will shoot him. The game warden pulled his other leg across the fence and the guy shot him the leg.
Well when court time arrived and the guy told the story to the judge, the judge looked at the game warden and asked him why he stepped over the fence when the guy told him he would shoot him. Wardens response was I thought he was poaching. And then the judge said he was not guilty, as he warned the warden not to trespass. I have no proof this happened but knowing the guy, he was not a bull shitter and I believe it. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:26:35 AM EDT
[#36]
Yes and no. They can check areas for illegal game, game processing etc but can’t just come in and search your drawers and cabinets.
Then there’s the issue of what happens if they’re looking for poached deer in your freezer and they come across the missing old lady from across the street. They have to scream help from real police and get search warrants, etc. The suspect would still be charged but it’s not like finding a sack of weed. I’m a huge proponent of search warrants. If I need in somewhere bad enough then I’m secure enough to sign my name on a search warrant and go before the judge. Those who aren’t usually have arrest reports that start off Once upon a time. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:28:33 AM EDT
[#37]
So how would the 5th amendment apply to game wardens? If they are just fishing for info and you tell them to FO, could they arrest you as they investigate?
Another situation on that show showed 3 game wardens show up at a house where supposedly an 80+ year old lady reported harvesting a bear. They basically started out with there is no way an 80 year old would kill a bear, who did it? The 3 wardens separated the 3 people there and kept interviewing them until the stories got crossed and her grandson admitted to shooting it. It seems like when the wardens showed up, the family should have told them to get lost and call their attorney if they had any questions. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:28:37 AM EDT
[#38]
Nobody posted this yet? Surprising...
 Tom Russell - "Claude Dallas" |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:28:43 AM EDT
[#39]
While there are elements of overreach with many game warden functions, without them you'd have rubes, mouth-breathers, and shitheads of all kinds killing everything that moves. For folks who don't care about hunting, I guess it's no big deal. I'm not a game hunter...pigs and predators for my choice. However, I guarantee that if unfettered, deer, game birds, fish of many species would be decimated. It ain't a perfect solution, but without some form of game management and enforcement it would get pretty bad.
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:29:02 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I beg to differ. Simply being on the water is, apparently, PC for a stop. Simply being on the road is not (theoretically). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Open Fields applies to all law enforcement, not Game Wardens. Game Wardens have zero additional constitutional authority over any other form of government. Depending on the state and the agency, they may have more or less statutory authority, but state law cannot allow for the violation of constitutional rights. Edit; In this thread we will get to hear about all kinds of things that never happened, and analysis of case law by folks who have no clue how anything works. These are always fun discussions. I beg to differ. Simply being on the water is, apparently, PC for a stop. Simply being on the road is not (theoretically). Agreed, I don’t know how anyone can argue differently. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:30:09 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder this to. You also see the texas rabbit police show I think its called Lone Star Law that they appear to be able to stop and search a boat for no reason and no one objects to them searching the boat. Why is a boat different from a car? |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:31:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Easiest way to get a fishing spot to yourself is put on a Fish &Game hat. All of the snaggers pack up and leave quickly.
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:33:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Easiest way to get a fishing spot to yourself is put on a Fish &Game hat. All of the snaggers pack up and leave quickly. Unless you're on the sandusky or maumee during the walleye run. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:33:35 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While there are elements of overreach with many game warden functions, without them you'd have rubes, mouth-breathers, and shitheads of all kinds killing everything that moves. For folks who don't care about hunting, I guess it's no big deal. I'm not a game hunter...pigs and predators for my choice. However, I guarantee that if unfettered, deer, game birds, fish of many species would be decimated. It ain't a perfect solution, but without some form of game management and enforcement it would get pretty bad. You'd think they'd have learned in the last 100 years that the goal of conservation would be a lot easier to achieve if they partnered with the group that paid for it rather than acting like the BATFE's retarded step brother. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:34:44 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s called the open fields doctrine. Wildlife officers can go onto private property to enforce wildlife laws. They cannot however enter your house without a warrant or permission. Think about it, if they couldn’t venture onto private property it would be damn near impossible to enforce game laws, especially in states with very little public land. Correct..... The courts have ruled for all police that rhe 4th Amendment applies to area where a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy.... The area surrounding your house such as garage, tool shed, locked cabinets inside your home, etc... If you own 50 acres of wide open land, the Court says that uou have no expectation of privacy. This applies to all police, game wardens do not have special constitutional powers. The nature of the call, "shots fired " allows them to show up on the land. For example..... If you haven't been able to reach your daughter in days and you call me to do welfare check on her, I can walk past the no trespassing signs to knock on her door. There are also cases of extreme emergencies where citizens have similar rights. If someone is lost, freezing/starving, snd they happen upon an unoccupied hunting cabin, they may be permitted to break into the cabin in an attempt to survive the situation. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:35:24 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My buddy was a deputy for a rural county here in Idaho and this was SOP. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They have sent fish cops in to known drug houses to look for wildlife violations and they then found drugs. A judge was on standby for an instant warrant. The Sherrifs then entered seconds later. My buddy was a deputy for a rural county here in Idaho and this was SOP. You do essentially sign away some of your 4th ammendment rights when you buy a license. Game Wardens have a lot more freedom versus other LEOs because of it. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:35:36 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty much. In most states it seems like they have more authority than an actual lawman. They are actual lawmen, and no. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:36:14 AM EDT
[#48]
Had a case here a few years ago, deer cop spotted a rifle barrel sticking out the window of a blind, on private property, in a field 1/4 mile from the road, during firearm deer season.
Walked across the field to check the guys license. Some strong PC, there I guess. Ended up giving the guy a ticket for not wearing orange, while in his own blind, on his own property. His orange coat was hanging on a hook inside the heated blind.
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:36:36 AM EDT
[#49]
Years ago a friend of mine was dove hunting on a farm owned by his friend. He heard shooting in another field and thought he would go over to see if it was his friend. When he got there he saw 4 people standing talking to each other, he went over to see who they where. One guy was the county sheriff and two county deputies who were dove hunting. The fourth one was a federal game warren writing tickets for hunting over a baited field. After he wrote the tickets he turned to my friend and ask him why he was hunting doves over a baited field. Buddy Said WTF Im not hunting over a baited field, he got the ticket anyway and had to appear in federal court. He goes into federal court thinking it would be like paying a traffic ticket. The judge rips him a new ass, tells him to come back with a lawyer. It cost him thousands of dollars to get it settled.
It didn't help his case when the sheriff got on the radio to one of his deputies on duty to pull over the game warren and look for anything to write him a ticket for. Cracked windshield was what they wrote the ticket for. |
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Posted: 2/28/2022 11:38:07 AM EDT
[#50]
The courts have long held if something is in "plain" sight, it can be used against you. I believe plain sight extends to using any bit of common technology as well, such as binoculars...This even includes flying drones now over open fields, as drones are considered to be widely available to the public now, at least that's how our Sheriff's department is interpreting it.
Here in Minnesota the MN Supreme Court handed the fish cops their ass 20 years ago. They loved to zoom up to fish houses in their snow machines and rip open the door on your fish house to see if you were in any violation. MN SC said no-no, fish houses are considered homes while occupied. You need to knock and ask to come in. https://www.startribune.com/ice-fishing-enforcement-behind-closed-doors/83977767/ |
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