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Posted: 3/1/2022 10:11:16 PM EST
[#1]
I've fished and waterfowl hunted for 35 years and have been checked many times by State and Federal Officers. 99% have been decent other than a few instances . I don't break the Law any way so they wouldn't find any thing . 30 years ago my bud and I are fishing in a pond about 3ft deep in an old canoe . I usually keep 2 life jackets strapped to the cross members but one fell off in the back of my truck , which we didn't notice . So a Game Warden standing on the bank yells to us to come over to him and we did . He checks all our stuff and give a ticket for not enough life jackets in canoe . Unsafe boating citation. Years later I have an I.A. interview before being hired as Corrections Officer. Two I.A. guys try to get me to admit that the unsafe boating cite is for high speed or drinking .I tell them I was in a canoe and can't paddle fast enough to get to high speed and it was like 0700 and as much as I appreciate a cold one I don't usually drink at 0700 . After much questioning I told them if you don't believe me ask the next guy to be interviewed was the friend in the canoe .
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Posted: 3/23/2022 1:07:11 PM EST
[#2]
The Institute for Justice won their 4th amendment case against TN
https://ij.org/press-release/in-victory-for-property-owners-statewide-tennessee-court-strikes-down-game-warden-surveillance-law-as-unconstitutional/ CAMDEN, Tenn.—Late yesterday, the Benton County Circuit Court ruled that a statute authorizing warrantless trespassing and surveillance by Tennessee game wardens is unconstitutional. The ruling is not just a victory for Benton County landowners Terry Rainwaters and Hunter Hollingsworth, who sued with the Institute for Justice (IJ) after the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency (TWRA) ignored their “No Trespassing” signs by entering and installing cameras on their land. The victory also applies broadly to private land across Tennessee. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 1:16:38 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In this thread we will get to hear about all kinds of things that never happened, and analysis of case law by folks who have no clue how anything works. These are always fun discussions. Again for those in the back... |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 1:31:52 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Institute for Justice won their 4th amendment case against TN https://ij.org/press-release/in-victory-for-property-owners-statewide-tennessee-court-strikes-down-game-warden-surveillance-law-as-unconstitutional/ CAMDEN, Tenn.Late yesterday, the Benton County Circuit Court ruled that a statute authorizing warrantless trespassing and surveillance by Tennessee game wardens is unconstitutional. The ruling is not just a victory for Benton County landowners Terry Rainwaters and Hunter Hollingsworth, who sued with the Institute for Justice (IJ) after the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency (TWRA) ignored their "No Trespassing" signs by entering and installing cameras on their land. The victory also applies broadly to private land across Tennessee. Quote HistoryQuoted: The Institute for Justice won their 4th amendment case against TN https://ij.org/press-release/in-victory-for-property-owners-statewide-tennessee-court-strikes-down-game-warden-surveillance-law-as-unconstitutional/ CAMDEN, Tenn.Late yesterday, the Benton County Circuit Court ruled that a statute authorizing warrantless trespassing and surveillance by Tennessee game wardens is unconstitutional. The ruling is not just a victory for Benton County landowners Terry Rainwaters and Hunter Hollingsworth, who sued with the Institute for Justice (IJ) after the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency (TWRA) ignored their "No Trespassing" signs by entering and installing cameras on their land. The victory also applies broadly to private land across Tennessee. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out nation-wide. One particular part of the article stands out: But the Circuit Court ruled that the law enabling the searches violates the Tennessee Constitution, which Tennessee courts have long held gives landowners more protection than the U.S. Constitution. Additionally, the court found that the law amounted to a "general warrant" that gave officials wide latitude to conduct searches. In striking down the law the court noted that "general warrants are dangerous to liberty and ought not to be granted." So Tennessee's 4th Amnd was more "protective" than the US Const., this may not hold true in other states. A state constitution can be more protective, but not less. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 3:10:49 PM EST
[#5]
I get checked by state and federal wardens numerous times every year. I have never had an unprofessional or unpleasant experience. Boat safety checks are a little annoying, but the guys on our lake generally are quick about it and on their way.
Got checked by a SD warden in February while ice fishing. Warden chatted with us for 10 minutes and provided a good tip that led to a bucket full of nice perch. Got checked by a SD warden in January while ice fishing. License check, quick look at the two walleyes I had in my bucket, then a 15 minute conversation about which area state properties are good for shed hunting. Got checked by a MN warden day after christmas day while pheasant hunting. License check for 5 of us, quick look at our birds, and after a brief conversation, I got the contact info for a local trapper who is currently working my land for raccoon, fox, skunk, & feral cats. Got checked by a USFWS warden in November while duck hunting. Thanked us for having our ducks in individual piles behind our blind so that we could ID who shot what to the best of our ability. Generally, SD GFP wardens do not enter private land to do compliance checks, only when they have suspicion of violation. USFWS wardens will drive right into your decoy spread and burn a few flocks of birds to check you if there are a lot of hunters in the area they want to get through. That's my only complaint about compliance checks is when a good opportunity is burned on a flock of mallards because I'm showing my non toxic shot to a fed. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 3:19:33 PM EST
[#6]
I watched a few episodes of that show recently for the first time. To me it looked like a bunch of losers with badges going around and hassling people in a quiet rural area for doing completely reasonable shit, and doing things that were way out of their jurisdiction as game wardens.
Hassling people riding ATVs seems to be a favorite. On one episode they went onto a guy's private road to find out if his ATVs were registered/licensed. What the fuck? It's his road, fuck off. I had to wonder why anyone would want to watch this show. It just got me pissed off watching these guys hassle people acting as if they were out there saving lives. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 3:27:23 PM EST
[#7]
It absolutely does.
Many of them think it doesn't. They're wrong. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 3:30:24 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While there are elements of overreach with many game warden functions, without them you'd have rubes, mouth-breathers, and shitheads of all kinds killing everything that moves. For folks who don't care about hunting, I guess it's no big deal. I'm not a game hunter...pigs and predators for my choice. However, I guarantee that if unfettered, deer, game birds, fish of many species would be decimated. It ain't a perfect solution, but without some form of game management and enforcement it would get pretty bad. I give way way way less of a fuck about hunting than I do tyrannical overreaching government. Or are you seriously saying that protecting muh quail is worth shitting on the constitution? |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 4:43:07 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Game Wardens do have more rights to search than standard LEO's Remember it is the kings deer....fish.....etc Red Wildlife Officers are state LEO's, same as State Troopers. They have exactly the same constitutional restrictions as any other Deputy or Officer. An LEO can enter private property without any reasonable suspicion of a crime at all if it isn't fenced and gated to conduct a "knock and talk". They have to leave when asked, the same as anyone else. If they DO have reasonable suspicion of a crime, they can remain on the property to conduct an investigation. Entrance into the home itself and possibly the curtilage as well is still restricted. See the Open Fields Doctrine if you want to read more about it. LEO can only enter a home or fenced, gated property with one of three things. A search/arrest warrant, consent or an exigency. Exigencies are things like to prevent death or serious injury, to prevent the destruction of evidence or to prevent the escape of someone who has committed a serious crime. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 4:44:37 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My buddy was a deputy for a rural county here in Idaho and this was SOP. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 4:47:57 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s called the open fields doctrine. Wildlife officers can go onto private property to enforce wildlife laws. They cannot however enter your house without a warrant or permission. Think about it, if they couldn’t venture onto private property it would be damn near impossible to enforce game laws, especially in states with very little public land. Actually the game wardens can enter your house to inspect the refrigerator freezer without a warrant. That's what my ex-wife's grandfather told me he was a captain in California department of fish and game. He said the sheriff would use them regularly to enter a residents or dwelling |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 5:12:40 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually the game wardens can enter your house to inspect the refrigerator freezer without a warrant. That's what my ex-wife's grandfather told me he was a captain in California department of fish and game. He said the sheriff would use them regularly to enter a residents or dwelling |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 5:22:56 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s called the open fields doctrine. Wildlife officers can go onto private property to enforce wildlife laws. They cannot however enter your house without a warrant or permission. Think about it, if they couldn’t venture onto private property it would be damn near impossible to enforce game laws, especially in states with very little public land. But they're not limited by the "Fruit of the Poison Tree" doctrine?  |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 5:24:45 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, the "safety checks" they conduct are pretty much an illegal search. Imagine if a real cop could make you turn over your car for life jackets, a whistle, and a paddle, in addition to license and registration. I have run across good ones, but many are complete pricks. I have never met a cop with a complex as bad as the average game warden. They call them DWI roadblocks - they check license, registration, and insurance. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 5:26:20 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Seat Belt Laws" "Busted Tail light" Rolled through that stop sign 30-minutes ago. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 5:41:33 PM EST
[#16]
Between the lottery system, paying for licenses, trying to keep track of endless contradictory laws, and the fish cops I really have no interest in fishing or hunting. I wanted to get into both but just don't see the point. Like a lot of things the government has regulated it away.
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Posted: 3/23/2022 5:50:55 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Between the lottery system, paying for licenses, trying to keep track of endless contradictory laws, and the fish cops I really have no interest in fishing or hunting. I wanted to get into both but just don't see the point. Like a lot of things the government has regulated it away. And yet, without all those things, we'd be where we were 80 years ago...with no game to hunt.  |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 5:53:21 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet, without all those things, we'd be where we were 80 years ago...with no game to hunt. https://scontent.fphx1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/276012347_10160011698961834_4564839559002463024_n.png?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=QBlCTBokELYAX8Ovb-M&_nc_ht=scontent.fphx1-2.fna&oh=00_AT-NR92vYrvdRWaQqUbrW_tzOrwCcL5A2hGHUt9V4aTh4w&oe=623FB514 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Between the lottery system, paying for licenses, trying to keep track of endless contradictory laws, and the fish cops I really have no interest in fishing or hunting. I wanted to get into both but just don't see the point. Like a lot of things the government has regulated it away. And yet, without all those things, we'd be where we were 80 years ago...with no game to hunt. https://scontent.fphx1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/276012347_10160011698961834_4564839559002463024_n.png?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=QBlCTBokELYAX8Ovb-M&_nc_ht=scontent.fphx1-2.fna&oh=00_AT-NR92vYrvdRWaQqUbrW_tzOrwCcL5A2hGHUt9V4aTh4w&oe=623FB514 Feel free to hunt all you want. It's not worth the money and hassle to me. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 5:54:35 PM EST
[#19]
Generally the 4th does not apply when used to peruse the imminent committing of a crime. Sadly, when it comes to fish and game, everyone is considered a criminal to proven otherwise.
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Posted: 3/23/2022 7:27:21 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the continuing fashion of this thread, that is 100% bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Actually the game wardens can enter your house to inspect the refrigerator freezer without a warrant. That's what my ex-wife's grandfather told me he was a captain in California department of fish and game. He said the sheriff department would use them regularly to enter a residents or dwelling Never worked with them so I'm going off of his stories He said he would get called out all the time for this stuff...as long as the suspect had a hunter / fishing license |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 7:29:13 PM EST
[#21]
My last thread about this got locked and I got a warning.
No questioning the kings henchmen. |
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Posted: 3/24/2022 7:55:26 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get checked by state and federal wardens numerous times every year. I have never had an unprofessional or unpleasant experience. Boat safety checks are a little annoying, but the guys on our lake generally are quick about it and on their way. Got checked by a SD warden in February while ice fishing. Warden chatted with us for 10 minutes and provided a good tip that led to a bucket full of nice perch. Got checked by a SD warden in January while ice fishing. License check, quick look at the two walleyes I had in my bucket, then a 15 minute conversation about which area state properties are good for shed hunting. Got checked by a MN warden day after christmas day while pheasant hunting. License check for 5 of us, quick look at our birds, and after a brief conversation, I got the contact info for a local trapper who is currently working my land for raccoon, fox, skunk, & feral cats. Got checked by a USFWS warden in November while duck hunting. Thanked us for having our ducks in individual piles behind our blind so that we could ID who shot what to the best of our ability. Generally, SD GFP wardens do not enter private land to do compliance checks, only when they have suspicion of violation. USFWS wardens will drive right into your decoy spread and burn a few flocks of birds to check you if there are a lot of hunters in the area they want to get through. That's my only complaint about compliance checks is when a good opportunity is burned on a flock of mallards because I'm showing my non toxic shot to a fed. What crime did they suspect you of when they stopped you? |
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Posted: 3/24/2022 8:09:03 AM EST
[#23]
Wildlife cops are from my limited experience “ gigantic assholes “, I’m honestly surprised more of them don’t get whacked .
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Posted: 3/24/2022 8:13:25 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Going to be interesting to see how this plays out nation-wide. One particular part of the article stands out: So Tennessee's 4th Amnd was more "protective" than the US Const., this may not hold true in other states. A state constitution can be more protective, but not less. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Institute for Justice won their 4th amendment case against TN https://ij.org/press-release/in-victory-for-property-owners-statewide-tennessee-court-strikes-down-game-warden-surveillance-law-as-unconstitutional/ CAMDEN, Tenn.Late yesterday, the Benton County Circuit Court ruled that a statute authorizing warrantless trespassing and surveillance by Tennessee game wardens is unconstitutional. The ruling is not just a victory for Benton County landowners Terry Rainwaters and Hunter Hollingsworth, who sued with the Institute for Justice (IJ) after the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency (TWRA) ignored their "No Trespassing" signs by entering and installing cameras on their land. The victory also applies broadly to private land across Tennessee. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out nation-wide. One particular part of the article stands out: But the Circuit Court ruled that the law enabling the searches violates the Tennessee Constitution, which Tennessee courts have long held gives landowners more protection than the U.S. Constitution. Additionally, the court found that the law amounted to a "general warrant" that gave officials wide latitude to conduct searches. In striking down the law the court noted that "general warrants are dangerous to liberty and ought not to be granted." So Tennessee's 4th Amnd was more "protective" than the US Const., this may not hold true in other states. A state constitution can be more protective, but not less. When I actually started reading West Virginia's constitution, I realized that there's some really great language in there - even better than the federal one. Not that most judges actually care, unfortunately..... |
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Posted: 3/24/2022 8:31:38 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have sent fish cops in to known drug houses to look for wildlife violations and they then found drugs. A judge was on standby for an instant warrant. The Sherrifs then entered seconds later. This sounds like what is called “urban legend.” I’d need to see any kind of reasonable citation that LE can ignore the 4th Amendment to enforce game laws, or even that game wardens have special authority to enforce game laws that other LE don’t. |
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Posted: 3/24/2022 8:33:56 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, quite common in rural or outlying areas. You do essentially sign away some of your 4th ammendment rights when you buy a license. Game Wardens have a lot more freedom versus other LEOs because of it. No. |
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Posted: 3/24/2022 8:47:54 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hadn't thought about it in a long time but when I was a kid I actually did see the local grouper troopers tell my friend's dad to fish a floating beer can out of the river and take it with us. Probably what led that friend to grow up and fall into a life of crime. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Pick up that can. I hadn't thought about it in a long time but when I was a kid I actually did see the local grouper troopers tell my friend's dad to fish a floating beer can out of the river and take it with us. Probably what led that friend to grow up and fall into a life of crime. That right there will turn someone into a hardened criminal.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/24/2022 8:52:36 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s called the open fields doctrine. Wildlife officers can go onto private property to enforce wildlife laws. They cannot however enter your house without a warrant or permission. Think about it, if they couldn’t venture onto private property it would be damn near impossible to enforce game laws, especially in states with very little public land. That is why, it is so hard to catch poachers with out tips. If you shot a deer cause it is the only way you can feed your family. Say tjhank you for your hard work, but no I didn't Now will please leave my property. They will comply, unless you say have a look around. |
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Posted: 3/24/2022 8:54:44 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the continuing fashion of this thread, that is 100% bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Actually the game wardens can enter your house to inspect the refrigerator freezer without a warrant. That's what my ex-wife's grandfather told me he was a captain in California department of fish and game. He said the sheriff would use them regularly to enter a residents or dwelling What they can legally do vs what they can bully an ignorant redneck into allowing them to do are two different things. |
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Posted: 3/24/2022 9:15:08 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Between the lottery system, paying for licenses, trying to keep track of endless contradictory laws, and the fish cops I really have no interest in fishing or hunting. I wanted to get into both but just don't see the point. Like a lot of things the government has regulated it away. If you’re not an idiot, your chance of a bad interaction with the AzG&F is amazingly low. |
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Posted: 3/24/2022 9:17:41 AM EST
[#31]
Based on these stories The second amendment doesn't do anything.
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Posted: 3/24/2022 12:39:11 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always find it funny just how many people in thousands of cop threads over the years STILL get it all wrong. 
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Posted: 3/24/2022 12:42:14 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wildlife cops are from my limited experience “ gigantic assholes “, I’m honestly surprised more of them don’t get whacked . Local one ripped me up one side and down the other for wasting his time emailing for a clarification on a fishing regulation instead of looking it up on the DNR smartphone app. Do your fucking job, asshole. |
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Posted: 3/24/2022 1:02:00 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I personally only have had one interaction with a game warden. Done fishing for the day, loaded the boat, still on the ramp tying up and he wants to do an inspection. It's 34* and there are 5-6 boats waiting for me to move. I ask him to let me move so they can load. "If you so much as move toward that truck you're going to jail." Just plain as that. I point to the warden and throw up my hands while he inspects. The waiting boats pull up, get out, and go to get their trucks and trailers to get in line. I have everything in order so he got nothing on me and now he's pissed. He then proceeds to move his truck out of my way, only to find 3 flat tires and one quickly going flat. He had to move that truck on four flats to unplug the ramp. Nobody saw a thing.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/24/2022 1:05:33 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Enlighten us. 
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