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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:28:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gates and bars over windows should get the chain to armored vehicle treatment. Reinforced doors are getting explosives or this super dooper toy: Powered by a .45 blank, pretty sweet. We have one of those. It's pretty damn effective even on steel doors set in concrete walls. The Bearcat with a breaching head will destroy a stick framed wall or rip out a window casing with ease. A follow up of a few Tri chamber gas grenades inserted via the Bearcats arm will usually get most people to exit the house right quick. We are also finally getting explosive breaching this year so that should cover almost any scenario. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:29:27 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FBI usually uses the back door. This thread is about breaching. Their sex lives aren't relevant to the topic at hand. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:32:33 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree; but the original question as I understood it, is can it be done. The answer is yes you can design it to delay a breaching; but the reality is can you afford to do it. The easiest and simplest way is to instal multiple barriers. All it does is buy you time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And this was a average bros home? The fact of the matter is that a granny can breach 99.999999% of GDs home with her Buick Now do it with trained bored SWAT bros who are an hour away from end of shift and a gauntlet of tax payer funded specifically designed breaching tools Sure hardened homes may deter petty criminals But 18,0000 lb bearcat just goes brr straight through your concrete wall with a battering ram I agree; but the original question as I understood it, is can it be done. The answer is yes you can design it to delay a breaching; but the reality is can you afford to do it. The easiest and simplest way is to instal multiple barriers. All it does is buy you time. It's fairly common here and overseas for the bad guys to have holes in the walls and floors to escape while the door is barricaded simply to act as an early warning and delay. Look at pictures of the drug dealers apartments in the US and Europe as well as terrorists places overseas. The harder you make it to enter your place the more mad you're going to make the team trying to make entry and the more destructive they're going to get. A safe room is nice for the average home invasion, but if you're serious you need to delay entry long enough for you to get to whatever escape route you have, whether that be a hole in a wall or floor into another apartment, a tunnel to an escape hatch or a mini sub in an underwater lair. 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:35:40 AM EDT
[#4]
gov sure loves having their weapons of war on our public streets, for sure.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:36:38 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I recently replaced an exterior door while renovating the room it's in. The door had always been relatively weak, like shake the frame, flex easy, I was positive I could easily kick it open. The rough frame was just toe nailed in, so obviously this door was added after the wall was built. I added a 3rd 2x4 on either side, then shored up the joints with steel on the face and in the inside 90 degree angle, with 5" construction lags going in wherever it was just toe nailed. Then 4" construction screws, not drywall screws, in the 1 piece strike plate and hinges. While I haven't tried to kick it down just in normal use its vastly improved from what it was and while I'm sure it could be breached with a door knocker, I doubt it's coming down on the first hit. Which is all I wanted, like another poster said I just want to create some time. That said I'm thinking of the video from Alaska where they're on a porch wailing away on that front door and it doesn't even dent, I'd like to know what kind of door that was because just fucking around with the old steel skin foam core door, it's easily dented and caved in. But the one in that video doesn't seem to take any damage. Everything is breachable, we just want to create some reaction time. Maybe an FRP door like we see on some commercial projects? |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:38:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want to learn about hardening your home, talk to the firefighters. At any rate. The best door would be a steel door, with thick ass hinges, that are somehow covered (or opens in and has cross bars) and is recessed. They will get in, they will just call the FD or get their armored car or armored bobcat. The FD and PD are not the people I am concerned with anyway. You would literally have to build a fortress, it would be expensive, and your house would look silly to normal to people. Unless you had high millions to spend on it. This is correct. I am not trying to keep LE out. I need to prevent the door ambush or a group of crackheads from breaking in. I did harden doors and windows, but focused on early detection. If I am awake and alert before you even get near the house, that is the best defense. Then you harden to keep common criminals out by making your place too much work to get into. They go look for easier hits. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:41:15 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know of local volunteer Fire Departments that have a door frame "stretcher". You mount it in the door and it pushes the frame apart enough to just push the door open, regardless of how strong it is. Typically just a fan hanger, which works great for bowing out a wood frame at the latch, and it's usually fairly non-destructive. But if we need to get destructive, we have a whole truckload of tools to bring to the party.  And that includes walls, both residential and commercial, which we practice on routinely to ensure we can get in quickly for a Mayday operation if necessary. If someone's trapped deep inside, running out of air, and a door or window isn't the best way to them, we are going through that fucking wall. Bank on it. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:44:07 AM EDT
[#8]
get 2 doors, one of them should be a semi hardened "Screen Door" type while the other should be a steel door. Coat the door in Vaseline to fuck with explosive breaches, make the door jams out of metal so that hooley tools wont have a place to bite
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:50:12 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Typically just a fan hanger, which works great for bowing out a wood frame at the latch, and it's usually fairly non-destructive. But if we need to get destructive, we have a whole truckload of tools to bring to the party. And that includes walls, both residential and commercial, which we practice on routinely to ensure we can get in quickly for a Mayday operation if necessary. If someone's trapped deep inside, running out of air, and a door or window isn't the best way to them, we are going through that fucking wall. Bank on it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I know of local volunteer Fire Departments that have a door frame "stretcher". You mount it in the door and it pushes the frame apart enough to just push the door open, regardless of how strong it is. Typically just a fan hanger, which works great for bowing out a wood frame at the latch, and it's usually fairly non-destructive. But if we need to get destructive, we have a whole truckload of tools to bring to the party. And that includes walls, both residential and commercial, which we practice on routinely to ensure we can get in quickly for a Mayday operation if necessary. If someone's trapped deep inside, running out of air, and a door or window isn't the best way to them, we are going through that fucking wall. Bank on it. I have opened a lot of doors using both tools. ETA: usually less damage than a haligan and a flat head. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:53:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Project doors can be troublesome…and if you hit the wrong door, expensive to fix,
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:59:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Put the ram on the Bearcat. This way you don't break the house or scratch the paint on the BC. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/lancasteronline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/fd/6fd9e7c0-109e-11e5-b416-3fdfc576d59f/557a2f353ca6b.hires.jpg What if you can't get a bearcat or other large vehicle anywhere close to the house without bringing in engineers and doing a long construction project? 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:04:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if you can't get a bearcat or other large vehicle anywhere close to the house without bringing in engineers and doing a long construction project? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Put the ram on the Bearcat. This way you don't break the house or scratch the paint on the BC. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/lancasteronline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/fd/6fd9e7c0-109e-11e5-b416-3fdfc576d59f/557a2f353ca6b.hires.jpg What if you can't get a bearcat or other large vehicle anywhere close to the house without bringing in engineers and doing a long construction project? |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:06:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Trying to keep out a well trained, well equipped and motivated team on anything remotely resembling the budget of an average homeowner is probably not going to happen.
The better question is, what can the average homeowner do to make it harder for Jimmy the crackhead to kick in the front door at 2am? From this type of attack there are options, but even then expectation management is important. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:07:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What fuckin' part of Indiana do you live in man! I grew up not far from Gary but sheesh! Way down in the pointy part. Not way north in the dimpled part. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:09:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FBI usually uses the back door. On each other. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:10:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My dad's house has a solid steel door and it's not facing parallel to the street it is perpendicular because he says that way it can't be easily pulled off by a vehicle with a chain. That door is just a decoy though because it opens up into an entrance where the real door to enter his house is. My dad is really paranoid that someone is out to get him some day. I told him one time that he should build a trap door in the floor of his entrance room that can open up and drop intruders into a deep pit. He told me he had already thought about that.  |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:11:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if you can't get a bearcat or other large vehicle anywhere close to the house without bringing in engineers and doing a long construction project? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Put the ram on the Bearcat. This way you don't break the house or scratch the paint on the BC. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/lancasteronline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/fd/6fd9e7c0-109e-11e5-b416-3fdfc576d59f/557a2f353ca6b.hires.jpg What if you can't get a bearcat or other large vehicle anywhere close to the house without bringing in engineers and doing a long construction project? Defensive architecture can be quite attractive and normal looking if properly done. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:12:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistorySo all I need to do is dump a gallon of Astro-glide on my porch….Home Alone style. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:14:08 PM EDT
[#19]
They’ll just burn it down with your family inside.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:14:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Murder cage or punji pit laughs at the guys rushing through the hole they just made. Cops are lucky most criminals are lazy incompetent and stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Breacher strip laughs at hardened door construction. Murder cage or punji pit laughs at the guys rushing through the hole they just made. Cops are lucky most criminals are lazy incompetent and stupid. You’re assuming that the breech will be at the door and not a wall along the side of your trailer. Or the ceiling. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:15:02 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:15:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: None of this would have to happen if you were a compliant citizen, living and working in your 15 minute city. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:16:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not if it destroys the facility and the occupants inside. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Explosive breaching for the win. Not if it destroys the facility and the occupants inside. Depending on who is inside it could be a win |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:17:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My dad's house has a solid steel door and it's not facing parallel to the street it is perpendicular because he says that way it can't be easily pulled off by a vehicle with a chain. That door is just a decoy though because it opens up into an entrance where the real door to enter his house is. My dad is really paranoid that someone is out to get him some day. I told him one time that he should build a trap door in the floor of his entrance room that can open up and drop intruders into a deep pit. He told me he had already thought about that. Does your dad have a newsletter? I'd like to subscribe. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:19:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Best to have a decoy residence.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:20:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Det cord.
You’re welcome |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:20:56 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:24:18 PM EDT
[#28]
At what point does something become a bunker?
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:26:02 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:26:11 PM EDT
[#30]
I've watched firemen go thru doors, walls, the floor of a doublewide and of course the roof and they do it in seconds to reach trapped people.
About the only thing that slows their breaching down is if the house is packed with hoarder crap. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:26:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many explosive breaches are police teams doing in the US? Military, sure, blow and go all the things in far off lands, but if SWAT teams are getting their flash bangs taken away for tossing them into cribs, how many are authorized, trained, and equipped for explosive breaches? |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:30:02 PM EDT
[#32]
There were some pretty heavy doors on SG-1.
Reinforce doors with multiple boxes of lags from Amazon. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:41:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have iron gates on the outsides of my exterior doors. Same on the inside of all windows. And the exterior of the house is stone. I’m very familiar with dynamic and explosive breaching, and most swat teams don’t have explosive as an option. Have you ever considered that you live in a bad neighborhood and should move? |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:44:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At what point does something become a bunker? When you need to call in one of these.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:50:04 PM EDT
[#35]
there was a thread that got deleted long ago about how the mc 1% had a reee enforced entry for such situations. second doors and wire mesh (fishnet) with hooks and shit to slow an entry team.
eta: 90 deg hallways too. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:54:01 PM EDT
[#36]
I live in a crappy neighborhood, so I have one of these on my front door and no windows on the first floor.
 Also have an accordion gate across the vestibule about 8 feet from the front door locked from the inside. 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:55:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think OP is confusing incompetence with hardened targets. Short of a concrete and rebar filled cinder-block structure with steel doors and door frames, any reasonably-competent breaching team is coming in. FIFY. A standard cinder block wall can be breached with a framing hammer. It would take some time but is easy. Cinder blocks have great compression strength, but can be broken from the side easy peasy. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:57:44 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the one. Thanks for reposting I didn't remember all the details but it definitely looks like there's something securing the bottom of that door on the jam side. Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the one. Thanks for reposting I didn't remember all the details but it definitely looks like there's something securing the bottom of that door on the jam side. Mentioned it numerous times in threads like these; Cheapest door reinforcements for your front door: Door club: $29.99 The spring steel makes it harder for rams, because it flexes and bleeds off the force, vs transferring all of it to the mounting screws. Door club Door jamb reinforcement plates. $24.99. Use at least 3” screws. Door jamb kit |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:59:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Had a guy that tried the same thing. I can make a door anywhere and the detasheet worked just fine
When you got to get in, you find a way. EBAD had an awesome course and it went way behind what SWAT would do. They morphed into some military situations which we would never really see in policing. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:59:55 PM EDT
[#40]
I asked this guy how much C-4 they used on this door.
He said: "What? What? What did you say?"  |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:00:40 PM EDT
[#41]
I've built such doors. All you need is a sturdy door, some scrap steel, a welder, and your Wile E. Coyote School of Engineering Degree.
If I were tasked with hitting such a building and found the doors too sturdy, well, there are other ways. It might incur a bunch of sweet overtime. It might cause considerable damage to the structure. Once I've secured an area then time is definitely on my side. I know guys who wouldn't really be slowed down much at all. Their employers tend to be more schedule driven. There's really no problem out there that the proper application of explosives can't resolve. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:04:17 PM EDT
[#42]
they will make their own entry point into the house, generally using an armored vehicle.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:05:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Given enough time and energy any door can be breached.
At work (DoD) we had a document safe with concrete walls two feet thick with a matching door. The door was a good 14-16" thick and took a grown man working at it to move. The safe was rated at 30 and 15 minutes IIRC. The first rating was the rating using hand tools and the like and the second was using power tools and explosives, something like that. It was all laid out in a nice steel label on the door. I bought pairs of these ($18) and used massive screws to mount them to the wall studs for my "safe room". In use a 2x4 drops into place. If the door is too strong they'll just go through the walls so armor those as well.  
 The side and garage doors have these to help prevent kicking in. They're solid strong and simple enough to use once you know how to tug them open. 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:13:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Back during the Crack Wars I remember a good one in Columbus, OH. Some crack dealer wannabe drug lord reinforced his shitty house in a shitty neighborhood really well. As in he covered the windows with plywood and steel, hardened the doors, basically made entry through the basement or first floor impossible. Now these were days when men of ingenuity and humor roamed the land as cops and they saw it as a challenge. Search warrant obtained on sufficient probable cause and off to the races with them. They couldn't get entry. The dopers inside were laughing at them. They pulled back a safe distance and called the fire department. The FD aimed a few hoses at a second story window and commenced to pump the house full of water. I don't think it took more than a couple of hours for the suspects to surrender. Do that today and you'd be vilified by every media outlet not owned by Brownell's on the planet.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:14:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I saw a design once using a 2 inch thick steel door on what looked like suspension coil springs off an old truck or something. You could pound on the thing all day long and it just gives and snaps back. Of course, if the door doesn't open, unless the house is made out of concrete, the walls, roof and windows represent significant  Anyone that will make an armored door, will probably have concrete walls as well. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:18:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many explosive breaches are police teams doing in the US? Military, sure, blow and go all the things in far off lands, but if SWAT teams are getting their flash bangs taken away for tossing them into cribs, how many are authorized, trained, and equipped for explosive breaches? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Breacher strip laughs at hardened door construction. Quoted: Explosive breaching for the win. How many explosive breaches are police teams doing in the US? Military, sure, blow and go all the things in far off lands, but if SWAT teams are getting their flash bangs taken away for tossing them into cribs, how many are authorized, trained, and equipped for explosive breaches? It's pretty common. Most competent team have that capability around here. I'm actually surprised when I talk with a team that doesn't either have that capability in house or at least have a relationship with an agency that provides it when needed. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:19:00 PM EDT
[#47]
,,,,
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:19:51 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you are actively planning something……. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lol no it does not Theyll just use the bearcat that they all rolled up in https://www.lencoarmor.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/6444-Charcoal-Grey-G3-em-EDIT.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZNwqc6mr2N0/maxresdefault.jpg MK211/Raufoss says fuck your engine block and armor!  But that makes sense for most targets. So you are actively planning something……. Now that you know, are you obligated to report it? |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:19:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is correct. I am not trying to keep LE out. I need to prevent the door ambush or a group of crackheads from breaking in. I did harden doors and windows, but focused on early detection. If I am awake and alert before you even get near the house, that is the best defense. Then you harden to keep common criminals out by making your place too much work to get into. They go look for easier hits. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you want to learn about hardening your home, talk to the firefighters. At any rate. The best door would be a steel door, with thick ass hinges, that are somehow covered (or opens in and has cross bars) and is recessed. They will get in, they will just call the FD or get their armored car or armored bobcat. The FD and PD are not the people I am concerned with anyway. You would literally have to build a fortress, it would be expensive, and your house would look silly to normal to people. Unless you had high millions to spend on it. This is correct. I am not trying to keep LE out. I need to prevent the door ambush or a group of crackheads from breaking in. I did harden doors and windows, but focused on early detection. If I am awake and alert before you even get near the house, that is the best defense. Then you harden to keep common criminals out by making your place too much work to get into. They go look for easier hits. This. I posted the cheap door reinforcements (won’t do jack if you have a shitty door, though. Like one of those doors with big glass panes in the door, or on either side of the door). Add window security film. It doesn’t make windows breach proof, but what it DOES do, is make your home harder for scumbags o break into, so they look for easier targets (not to mention giving you more reaction time, if you’re home and hear the initial banging). Don’t forget to apply a bead of clear silicone after applying window film, if doing it yourself. The film makes it difficult to break through the glass (and even makes it harder to crack the glass), but without the silicone binding it to the frame, the whole pane can pop out of the window more easily. One pretty cool solution offered by various companies are security mesh covers for the windows (looks like insect screens). They open outwards easily from the inside (for emergency egress), but are cut resistant and resistant to prying with screwdrivers or prybars. The added advantage is that things like hammers and thrown bricks won’t even reach the glass, so you won’t even need to replace a cracked window from failed simple breach attempts. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:21:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I saw that once in the 80's....drug dealer had a simple security door and then interior door. But then once you got in the door you were in a cage and just made yourself an easy target. Not a house I'd want to live in but it was interesting to see. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Murder cage or punji pit laughs at the guys rushing through the hole they just made. Cops are lucky most criminals are lazy incompetent and stupid. I saw that once in the 80's....drug dealer had a simple security door and then interior door. But then once you got in the door you were in a cage and just made yourself an easy target. Not a house I'd want to live in but it was interesting to see. In high crime areas like South Africa, normal residential houses often have metal barred-doors in the interior, for example, separating the sleeping rooms from the living areas, as a measure against home invasions. |
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