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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:24:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Explosive breaching and rams attached to armor are pretty hard to beat. We managed to rip out a garage door without damaging the classic MG and F100 parked in there
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:30:01 PM EDT
[#2]
You're not going to stop a breach with a house, period. Sans building a very hardened almost "castleesq" structure from onset.
Buy time...and in the context of that time being 30-90 seconds however different story. As far as the "windows/glass" vulnerabilities and those comments... 3M Ultra 800 is what you seek  GlassEnergy 3M Ultra S800 Safety Window Film Demo Be warned, not cheap and really requires 3M's Impact Adhesive Protection system along the frames in tandem. It was over 3K to install for my glaring weak points, blind/back areas, at ground level, glass entrances. For the record, it also wasn't crack heads or other reasons being the impetus...I have Black Bear on my mountain. When one started pushing on the master bedroom glass wall/door last year to that porch area... yeah. But given the current climate and potentials for organized illegal hoodlums, now doing hoodlum shit targeted into wealthier areas. Enough time to get my head about me and proportionally respond |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:11:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryDrone is going in first. They are really starting to change SWAT procedures. Not a cure all but it's great to get eyes in the house without risking lives. The newer ones that can also produce a detailed 3d rendering of the interior are amazing. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:20:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 100% - even if the structure is weakened to the point of it being condemned afterwards, we are getting in. Yea, but not right away. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:24:57 PM EDT
[#5]
I believe there was a case in Georgia where a guy had ambushed a few cops and barricaded himself in some structure. The Sheriff pretty much said fuck that guy and dropped a bomb from a helicopter on his head.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:25:19 PM EDT
[#6]
I saw the safe room door in the danish embassy residence in DC years ago ( was doing some work there ). It was 2 doors in a zig zag pattern, no more than 30 inches wide. Aka a short hallway with the door on the side, the hall was 30 inches wide. The next door was at 90 degrees to the first, also a 30 inch wide short hallway. I guess the idea was two fold, one many corners to use as a shield, plus no room to swing a ram. Then to even get to the hallways was a jail cell looking door with a short wall section with a gun port.
To get in to the safe room, or even close to it would have been a death trap. The rest of the house was completely normal in every way, beyond fancy. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:31:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if you can't get a bearcat or other large vehicle anywhere close to the house without bringing in engineers and doing a long construction project?  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Put the ram on the Bearcat. This way you don't break the house or scratch the paint on the BC. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/lancasteronline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/fd/6fd9e7c0-109e-11e5-b416-3fdfc576d59f/557a2f353ca6b.hires.jpg What if you can't get a bearcat or other large vehicle anywhere close to the house without bringing in engineers and doing a long construction project? Explosive breach. 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:34:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back during the Crack Wars I remember a good one in Columbus, OH. Some crack dealer wannabe drug lord reinforced his shitty house in a shitty neighborhood really well. As in he covered the windows with plywood and steel, hardened the doors, basically made entry through the basement or first floor impossible. Now these were days when men of ingenuity and humor roamed the land as cops and they saw it as a challenge. Search warrant obtained on sufficient probable cause and off to the races with them. They couldn't get entry. The dopers inside were laughing at them. They pulled back a safe distance and called the fire department. The FD aimed a few hoses at a second story window and commenced to pump the house full of water. I don't think it took more than a couple of hours for the suspects to surrender. Do that today and you'd be vilified by every media outlet not owned by Brownell's on the planet. Hope they did that in the wintertime. Although even in the summer, drug dealers tend to be terrible swimmers. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:36:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now that you know, are you obligated to report it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lol no it does not Theyll just use the bearcat that they all rolled up in https://www.lencoarmor.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/6444-Charcoal-Grey-G3-em-EDIT.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZNwqc6mr2N0/maxresdefault.jpg MK211/Raufoss says fuck your engine block and armor!  But that makes sense for most targets. So you are actively planning something……. Now that you know, are you obligated to report it? I’m retired, unless your activity will raise my taxes or endanger my well being, i don’t give a rats ass what you do. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:36:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We have one of those. It's pretty damn effective even on steel doors set in concrete walls. The Bearcat with a breaching head will destroy a stick framed wall or rip out a window casing with ease. A follow up of a few Tri chamber gas grenades inserted via the Bearcats arm will usually get most people to exit the house right quick. We are also finally getting explosive breaching this year so that should cover almost any scenario. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Gates and bars over windows should get the chain to armored vehicle treatment. Reinforced doors are getting explosives or this super dooper toy: Powered by a .45 blank, pretty sweet. We have one of those. It's pretty damn effective even on steel doors set in concrete walls. The Bearcat with a breaching head will destroy a stick framed wall or rip out a window casing with ease. A follow up of a few Tri chamber gas grenades inserted via the Bearcats arm will usually get most people to exit the house right quick. We are also finally getting explosive breaching this year so that should cover almost any scenario. Ohio is starting to sound like a rough place. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:37:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yea, but not right away. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 100% - even if the structure is weakened to the point of it being condemned afterwards, we are getting in. Yea, but not right away. But we will prevail. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:38:13 PM EDT
[#12]
My city of 120k practices with explosive entry (FD provides the swat medics for the swat team). The Hurst Strong Arms make short work of metal doors, gates, etc. too.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:38:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Drone is going in first. They are really starting to change SWAT procedures. Not a cure all but it's great to get eyes in the house without risking lives. The newer ones that can also produce a detailed 3d rendering of the interior are amazing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Drone is going in first. They are really starting to change SWAT procedures. Not a cure all but it's great to get eyes in the house without risking lives. The newer ones that can also produce a detailed 3d rendering of the interior are amazing. I watched a foreign team I was doing a week of training with deliver explosives and breaching charges via small drones flown inside of buildings. It was impressive to say the least. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:41:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if you can't get a bearcat or other large vehicle anywhere close to the house without bringing in engineers and doing a long construction project?  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:43:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At best you’re buying a moment when someone is trying to break in. I think thats the point most of you are all missing. "But muh swat can go teh windowz" No shit sherlock. Unless you just want to argue a worthless point, nobody is expecting an intrusion proof door versus a determined government avesary. Buying several minutes worth of fruitless beating on a hardened door and giving you that magin of warning however, is a reasonable ask without automatically jumping to "teh break down muh wallz!" I liked the idea of a fake front door though. Just giggling imagining some perp beating at it until he collapses, gasping for breath as your ring doorbell records him. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:45:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Modern SWAT is not going to make entry quickly. They enter when they choose to and they choose to after the drone flies it, looks in windows, breaks windows, introduces whatever it needs to introduce, and identifies who/where people are located.
The days of doing a bum rush into a structure are long gone. Robots, dogs, and equipment do the initial work. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:54:24 PM EDT
[#17]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:58:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread is about breaching. Their sex lives aren't relevant to the topic at hand. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: FBI usually uses the back door. This thread is about breaching. Their sex lives aren't relevant to the topic at hand. I guess I was just too cranky this morning. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 3:00:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Ever seen a battering ram on a BearCat/MRAP?
I have! |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 3:08:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Ideally, if you want to slow them down, a good HD commercial security door, all steel with steel frame is a good start.. If you really want to buy time, make a 4' foyer inside of the main door that is made of 4"x6" x1/2" post buried 6 foot in the ground with concrete, spaced 24" on center, heavily framed in with a heavy tube steel door built for it and 3 beams that can be slid in behind it top/middle/bottom to secure it..the small space makes it harder to breech, the heavy steel construction makes it much more resistant to even truck damage and you can leave the security door wide open until you suspect attack..Ideally the same could be done inside windows/walls as well be a lot of work and money, but secretly installed inside existing walls would be unknown to anyone trying to breech..personally, a well made tunnel to get you a way from the house secretly or an heavily reinforced bomb shelter deep under ground would likely be better options....or not put yourself in position for the Gov to come after you in the first place...
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Posted: 2/14/2024 3:08:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any building is penetrable with enough time regardless of construction. That being said, when it comes to home invasions all you're really trying to do is buy yourself some time. If you can deny the enemy the element of surprise then you have a chance. Of course, if it's the gov stacked up at your door, they're eventually getting in. Even if they have to burn you out while killing plenty of women and children in the process. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 3:12:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FBI usually uses the back door. Fags |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 3:13:58 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 6:07:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryHmmm… oil squirter nozzles disguised as ornamental decorations, tied to a door mounted impact sensor? *** with outdoor speakers set to blast Yakety Sax simultaneously 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 6:20:07 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I live in a crappy neighborhood, so I have one of these on my front door and no windows on the first floor. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/81535/download__4_-2516089.jpg Also have an accordion gate across the vestibule about 8 feet from the front door locked from the inside. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/81535/index-1788525.jpg That door in the 1st picture is a push door, not a pull door. 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 6:22:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Helicopters? 1985 MOVE bombing |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 6:35:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FBI usually uses the back door.  |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 6:46:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Awesome post OP. I was needing just one more justification for my explosive breaching proposal!
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Posted: 2/14/2024 6:49:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Bank vault with 1/2 inch decorated wood door facia.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 6:51:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My dad's house has a solid steel door and it's not facing parallel to the street it is perpendicular because he says that way it can't be easily pulled off by a vehicle with a chain. That door is just a decoy though because it opens up into an entrance where the real door to enter his house is. My dad is really paranoid that someone is out to get him some day. I told him one time that he should build a trap door in the floor of his entrance room that can open up and drop intruders into a deep pit. He told me he had already thought about that.  " /> |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:02:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Breacher strip laughs at hardened door construction. Always thought it would be clever to wire a claymore to an overpressure sensor. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:05:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Breacher strip laughs at hardened door construction. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:05:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryThere is an easy way to handle those but it’s expensive. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:11:50 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have iron gates on the outsides of my exterior doors. Same on the inside of all windows. And the exterior of the house is stone. I'm very familiar with dynamic and explosive breaching, and most swat teams don't have explosive as an option. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:12:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Maybe they just go old school...
 PHILADELPHIA: THE BOMBING OF MOVE |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:17:03 PM EDT
[#36]
I’ve worked on structures that JSOC couldn’t breach. How much do you want to spend?
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:18:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's fairly common here and overseas for the bad guys to have holes in the walls and floors to escape while the door is barricaded simply to act as an early warning and delay. Look at pictures of the drug dealers apartments in the US and Europe as well as terrorists places overseas. The harder you make it to enter your place the more mad you're going to make the team trying to make entry and the more destructive they're going to get. A safe room is nice for the average home invasion, but if you're serious you need to delay entry long enough for you to get to whatever escape route you have, whether that be a hole in a wall or floor into another apartment, a tunnel to an escape hatch or a mini sub in an underwater lair.  Or you need a system to last long enough for QRF, if you can operate that openly and bring that kind of force to bear. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:20:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryLooks like you could defeat that with forceps and a couple feet of paracord. It's easy to plan for forcing doors when you have plenty of time on your hands and aren't under stress. There are a ton of videos and kits for defeating any number of doors, both destructive and non. However, some times weird things happen and a rubber backed floor rug gets wedged underneath and the door won't budge. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:23:30 PM EDT
[#39]
The police have themselves an rv.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:35:25 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FIFY. A standard cinder block wall can be breached with a framing hammer. It would take some time but is easy. Cinder blocks have great compression strength, but can be broken from the side easy peasy. That’s why they get filled with concrete. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:35:52 PM EDT
[#41]
This would have been a better thread if it wasn't about withstanding the police versus a capable gang of bandits. The problem with the LE scenario is that you can only talk about playing defense versus offense. The capable bandit scenario is much more interesting.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:37:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is an easy way to handle those but it’s expensive. Quote HistoryQuoted: There is an easy way to handle those but it’s expensive. An armored excavator ought to do the trick. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:44:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An armored excavator ought to do the trick. That’s what you’ll need to get your bobcat back. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:55:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My dad's house has a solid steel door and it's not facing parallel to the street it is perpendicular because he says that way it can't be easily pulled off by a vehicle with a chain. That door is just a decoy though because it opens up into an entrance where the real door to enter his house is. My dad is really paranoid that someone is out to get him some day. I told him one time that he should build a trap door in the floor of his entrance room that can open up and drop intruders into a deep pit. He told me he had already thought about that. Your dad sounds cool as hell… |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 8:02:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Defensive architecture can be quite attractive and normal looking if properly done. Less expensive too. As mentioned, door not perpendicular to street, and if possible in a relatively narrow entrance way with an overhang. Tall narrow ground floor windows. There are some pretty obnoxious shrubs you can grow around the base. Some strategic rocks and trees in the yard. ICF is being more popular. It's arguably a better way to build even without the security angle. Certainly, without spending a ton of money you're not building a bunker, but if you're just trying to keep the local yute s away you don't need one. I'd also a argue that a good surveillance system is worth a lot more than any other single measure. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 8:04:18 PM EDT
[#46]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 8:04:26 PM EDT
[#47]
The front house is the decoy house. The real one is back in the woods and underground.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 8:11:41 PM EDT
[#48]
We are not going to discuss methods of stopping that includes harming a SWAT entry team, as some have posted already.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 8:11:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Done
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