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Posted: 6/22/2022 8:43:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am just starting to up my cannibalism game. I must admit I was a little squeamish at first. But I think I'm getting the hang of it now. Lets face it, the people will be easy pickins. Do you, by chance, have an assault wheelbarrow and a debarked chihuahua dog?  
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Posted: 6/22/2022 8:44:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did anyone actually STARVE during the Depression? When, in the history of the US did people have to rely on SURVIVAL caches for their meals? I lived thru the LA fires, the big earthquake, the riots and all the grocery stores and restaurants stayed open. No kidding, don't listen to em. Just get your food from the grocery stores from the shelves. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 8:46:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I post a thread awhile back asking for ideas on food stores diversification. The only thing people suggested was buy beans and rice. I have plenty of beans and rice. I want other things also. Diversify? In my mind that means -Have foods that store well and require no energy to preserve or to prepare. Think peanut butter and canned fishes. Canned soups and stews also fall loosely into this category. -Have some foods that store well and require no energy to preserve but require energy to prepare. That's beans and rice -Have some foods that store well and require energy to preserve and to prepare. Meat, frozen veggies, and more meat. Then more meat. -Have the ability to grow some food. This could be a small livestock operation, even chicken or rabbits or fish or froglegs - or it could be veggies, corn, peas and beans and peppers. -Have greens that can be foraged. Alfalfa, peas, kale, turnip or mustard greens.....you can grow small patches of some of those year round, almost, and walk out and pick as needed, or plow up and start over every so often. -Dry crops, such as a standing corn patch in winter or a standing patch of wheat in the summer, would allow easy access to grain you otherwise didn't even have to store (but don't leave standing crops near your house - they attract mice). -When in doubt, add more peanut butter and beans. The more multi-pronged your approach is, the better your odds of surviving the loss of one prong. ETA: And having a supply of water and the means to purify it is way more important than any food. If you can't secure water you can't make it more than a few days. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 8:53:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Crockpotting that is pretty easy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Pretty irrelevant if your wife can’t cook. Crockpotting that is pretty easy. It is, and my mom still couldn't get it right. Every time she made peas they were mush. And turkey... I didn't know turkey could be moist until I married Mrs BGB. I loved my mom, but a cook she wasn't. Miss ya mom. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:00:11 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:03:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great add to rice and beans, soups and stews. https://asset-americas.unileversolutions.com/content/dam/unilever/knorr_world/united_states_of_america/pack_shot/048001711044.01-54826878-png.png.ulenscale.507x507.png How long can it be stored? Part of our planning is to buy extra of the normal items we use and rotate them out before they expire. We also have long term storage products for sustained food supply issues. It would be nice to find such flavoring ingredients that have a several year shelf life to allow us to rotate them out before they go bad. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:12:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did anyone actually STARVE during the Depression? When, in the history of the US did people have to rely on SURVIVAL caches for their meals? I lived thru the LA fires, the big earthquake, the riots and all the grocery stores and restaurants stayed open. How do you think the school lunch program started? A bunch of malnourished volunteers in ww2. Yeah people went hungry during the depression. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:20:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rice is very empty of calories. Beans are much better. But, energy is needed to cool them. @yodude There are 9 essential amino acids that your body cannot produce and must be obtained from your diet. Of the 9, beans contain isoleucine and lysine, but lack methionine and tryptophan. Take a wild guess which 2 amino acids you can get from rice? Always combine a legume with a grain for a complete amino acid meal. Beans and rice. Beans and corn. Peanut butter and bread. This is why certain foods are paired. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:24:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you add flavor to rice and beans? Eaten them when I had to but they don’t taste all that great. @okiehunter39 Do you like East Indian food? If yes, then you’re all set if you start to store spices. Use O2 absorbers and store spices in Mylar. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:36:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Here is something that takes very little time, and is of no cost. Start making a mental note of food that is around you but no one really notices. For example, apple, pecan, persimmon and walnut trees, and area's where wild onions grow. Most people pay little attention to these sources of nutrition.
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:40:56 PM EDT
[#11]
If people are eating their food Preps to survive we will likely already have had an economic collapse and civil or nuclear war. If it gets to that point you will likely be dead or have bigger problems.
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:41:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Not sure if you guys like split peas, I do because the are very like British 'Mushy Peas'. They don't seem very popular here though.
They store very well, cook in 8mins in a pressure cooker on the lowest heat setting (+ another 5 after turning the heat off to cool down naturally). I use one part split peas, 2.5 parts water, bit of oil, some salt, very nice flavor, a change from beans, good nutritional profile, I could eat that every day. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:44:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Crockpotting that is pretty easy. Yup. I had some with creamed spinach tonight. Yum. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:56:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Salt pork and habaneros. Right now I'm eating pinto beans, green peppers and onions in a taco shell. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How do you add flavor to rice and beans? Eaten them when I had to but they don’t taste all that great. Salt pork and habaneros. Right now I'm eating pinto beans, green peppers and onions in a taco shell. That’s the kind of stuff I used to eat before wife/kids |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:05:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If people are eating their food Preps to survive we will likely already have had an economic collapse and civil or nuclear war. If it gets to that point you will likely be dead or have bigger problems. Bigger problems than feeding their families?? |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:42:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure if you guys like split peas, I do because the are very like British 'Mushy Peas'. They don't seem very popular here though. They store very well, cook in 8mins in a pressure cooker on the lowest heat setting (+ another 5 after turning the heat off to cool down naturally). I use one part split peas, 2.5 parts water, bit of oil, some salt, very nice flavor, a change from beans, good nutritional profile, I could eat that every day. @Skydivesnake Absolutely. I make green split pea soup. You can make it vegan or add smoked pork hocks if you have the luxury. Add in carrots, parsnip, etc. Not my picture.  I also make an Indian dish Spinach Dhal with green split peas. Not my picture:  Green or yellow split peas can be stored for years in Mylar. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:43:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Regardless of what the hippies tell you the protein isn’t as bioavailable as animal protein. Beans and rice is not a complete protein. Plants,especially beans, don’t want to be eaten and have phytochemicals in them to inhibit or bind to essential nutritional bits. I didn't know plants were sentient. I didn't know cows wanted to be eaten.
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:46:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Something I have been. Doing for years now is buying extra packets of garden seeds every year. The extras go into a plastic ammo can. Newest in the back. The can is stuffed full now.
My wife is an avid gardener. I am making sure she has what she needs to expand her kitchen garden into something more. I also have a rice and bean fort. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:48:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Something I have been. Doing for years now is buying extra packets of garden seeds every year. The extras go into a plastic ammo can. Newest in the back. The can is stuffed full now. My wife is an avid gardener. I am making sure she has what she needs to expand her kitchen garden into something more. @Aikibiker Seed preservation is an interesting topic. I am not an expert but have learned a lot over the years. You can easily keep radish seeds for 5 to 6 years. Parsnip seeds are good for only one season. Then there are the heirloom tomato seeds that were 14 years old. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:50:31 PM EDT
[#20]
What is the best way to keep milk? Condensed, powdered, frozen?
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:04:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think the average American knows how to properly cook dried beans. Willing to learn - she bought a couple of bags of black beans. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:16:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: We've learned the importance of ammo and tp forts, but is the hype about food shortages a concern to the average American? It seems like a pretty cheap investment, you can buy cheap and stack real deep today. Is tomorrow a concern? Once you buy the rice and beans, start stockpiling the fuel to cook it with. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:24:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did anyone actually STARVE during the Depression? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are you dumb ignorant or did you just flunk out of school and not pay attention? Have you ever heard of the Great Depression? Did anyone actually STARVE during the Depression? Over 100,000 people in the USA died of pellagra, and about 3 million more were affected by it. And that's just one dietary disease, there are/were others. So IDK how many people actually starved to death (maybe none), but a whole heapload died because of the poor nutrition. Even getting into WWII, over 10% of all draftees were rejected due to conditions related to malnutrition. The sheer number of men who were unfit to fight because of malnutrition is what led the federal government to begin programs to boost nutrition, leading to the addition of vitamins and minerals to many staple foods. This is when you started seeing the "Fortified with (x) essential vitamins and minerals!" on products. The interesting thing about the government programs to push vitamins and minerals into food is that it essentially stopped malnutrition-related deaths cold, they dropped from tens of thousands per year to nearly zero in a very short time. Moral of the story: In addition to storing food, try to store a VARIETY of food that will provide a rounded diet, and think about storing vitamins as well. Quoted: How do you add flavor to rice and beans? Eaten them when I had to but they don’t taste all that great. Mexicans make their beans with some lard, some salt, and maybe a little garlic, and let me tell you... they are freaking delicious. I ate mexican rice and beans at least once a day for two years straight, and never got tired of them. I could eat them every day for the rest of my life. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:33:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Are you really asking this? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did anyone actually STARVE during the Depression? When, in the history of the US did people have to rely on SURVIVAL caches for their meals? I lived thru the LA fires, the big earthquake, the riots and all the grocery stores and restaurants stayed open. Yes. Are you really asking this? I've been reading up on this since there have been so many "buy food now or you'll starve" threads lately. Apparently nobody actually starved during the great depression. Not of any note and on any widespread scale anyway. One source notes that some researchers claim many people even became healthier. Now I'm not saying don't buy food/supplies/whatever, but apparently widespread starvation is an oft repeated urban legend. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:40:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been reading up on this since there have been so many "buy food now or you'll starve" threads lately. Apparently nobody actually starved during the great depression. Not of any note and on any widespread scale anyway. One source notes that some researchers claim many people even became healthier. Look one post up. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 12:11:43 AM EDT
[#26]
pashah... rice and beans are so last century man, ravioli and spaghettis Os fort is where its at
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Posted: 6/23/2022 12:30:53 AM EDT
[#27]
I would rather have a pasta fort over a rice fort any day.
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Posted: 6/23/2022 1:19:09 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Aikibiker Seed preservation is an interesting topic. I am not an expert but have learned a lot over the years. You can easily keep radish seeds for 5 to 6 years. Parsnip seeds are good for only one season. Then there are the heirloom tomato seeds that were 14 years old. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Something I have been. Doing for years now is buying extra packets of garden seeds every year. The extras go into a plastic ammo can. Newest in the back. The can is stuffed full now. My wife is an avid gardener. I am making sure she has what she needs to expand her kitchen garden into something more. @Aikibiker Seed preservation is an interesting topic. I am not an expert but have learned a lot over the years. You can easily keep radish seeds for 5 to 6 years. Parsnip seeds are good for only one season. Then there are the heirloom tomato seeds that were 14 years old. My wife does pretty well with the old seeds I pull out when adding new ones. Not sure of the yields, I have a brown thumb and she prefers I stay out of the garden unless there is heavy stuff to move. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 1:30:59 AM EDT
[#29]
It’s worth having some staples. But people will die with staples. Because it’s so bland you just won’t eat. Hopefully it’s just to fill in between a few decent meals in hard times.
Get some spices too 
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Posted: 6/23/2022 1:33:03 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? When in the history of the US was anyone NOT be able to get food? And you have 100,000 rounds of SS109? OK, now what?  Dad lived in the depression. He was in the country aka farmer. He told me he never missed a meal. Just postponed a few.
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Posted: 6/23/2022 1:34:05 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? When in the history of the US was anyone NOT be able to get food? And you have 100,000 rounds of SS109? OK, now what? During the Great Depression food was unafordable for many. The term "soup kitchens" came into being during that time. Families living in the dust bowl areas didn't have much, if anything, to eat because they were unable to grow crops. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 1:36:07 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you add flavor to rice and beans? Eaten them when I had to but they don’t taste all that great. Marry a Hispanic woman… that’s what I did
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Posted: 6/23/2022 1:40:22 AM EDT
[#33]
I didn't read the thread but: fats and oils are more important IMHO.
I kept posting about how cooking oil was still under $5 a gallon and butter freezes well...that was just a year ago Buy your cheap rice and beans, but buy more oils and fats. Most people who buy dried foods for longer term storage never have enough fats. Shortening and certain brands of lard will keep on the shelf for many years. Butter keeps for 5+ years frozen without issue. Regular olive oil keeps for years if you don't open it. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 1:45:06 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Marry a Hispanic woman that's what I did Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How do you add flavor to rice and beans? Eaten them when I had to but they don't taste all that great. Marry a Hispanic woman that's what I did QFT Also, dehydrated onions and bell peppers, plus a bunch of spices will work too I don't have any recipes offhand, but any seasoning packet/box meal thing you can think of is essentially just that, plus msg 
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Posted: 6/23/2022 5:45:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure if you guys like split peas, I do because the are very like British 'Mushy Peas'. They don't seem very popular here though. They store very well, cook in 8mins in a pressure cooker on the lowest heat setting (+ another 5 after turning the heat off to cool down naturally). I use one part split peas, 2.5 parts water, bit of oil, some salt, very nice flavor, a change from beans, good nutritional profile, I could eat that every day. I love 'em. All the peas. Snap, frozen, fresh, dried/split pea and ham soup. I can eat peas cold, right out of a can. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 5:49:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you dumb ignorant or did you just flunk out of school and not pay attention? Have you ever heard of the Great Depression? So *if* you’re predicting another Great Depression, as in a decade long event of utter financial ruin….what are your half dozen buckets of beans and rice going to do? |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 6:07:45 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So *if* you're predicting another Great Depression, as in a decade long event of utter financial ruin .what are your half dozen buckets of beans and rice going to do? 6 x 5 gallon buckets. On avg will hold depending on contents 35 to 45lbs of stuff per bucket. Whats the suggested serving for rice ? 1 cup/8 oz? 2 rice 2 bean/lentil 1 pasta 1 grain Supplemented by what ever fresh or can goods you can get. That's a decent buffer for family of 3. Again if inflation is through the roof it will allow you to put your $$$ effort and safety into other things to allow you to survive/prosper aka not be in such a shit sandwich as the rest of the peasants. Now if you're an arfcom quad billionaire you won't have this problem. You'll be spending your money o n fortifying your home like they do in Brazil and other South American places to keep the unwashed masses from trying to take from you. Again. I'd rather consume my bought cheap stacked deep stuff than dropping 26$ for 2 chicken thighs and a half spoiled cabbage from China mart. I find it amusing, always have on. A gun forum how many boohoo subjects such as.. Preps Gear Prep threads bring out the " your crazy preppers " " itll never happen here " posters... And Gear threads bring out the " your larping " tards. I see those types as pussy whipped fools. Until momma gets hungry or starts to lose the comfort bubble when high prices hit. And when she sees that safe and says " aren't you gonna do something " You have now turned into a threat for everyone around you. Ironic for many that are pro 2a...conservative...freedom ,,don't tread on me, molon labia types if you ask me. Cheap insurance/hedge against a possibility is not stupid by any means. Ignoring things and down playing talking it are. Ymmv |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 6:48:14 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? When in the history of the US was anyone NOT be able to get food? And you have 100,000 rounds of SS109? OK, now what? 1929-1934 |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 6:56:57 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So *if* you’re predicting another Great Depression, as in a decade long event of utter financial ruin….what are your half dozen buckets of beans and rice going to do? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are you dumb ignorant or did you just flunk out of school and not pay attention? Have you ever heard of the Great Depression? So *if* you’re predicting another Great Depression, as in a decade long event of utter financial ruin….what are your half dozen buckets of beans and rice going to do? LOL. You need fucking F15s and Tanks or you may as well give up, now. There is no use in having anything incase of hard times or emergencies. You don't need a firearm. That is all fantasy masturbatory shit. The government will keep and protect you. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 7:00:07 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It balances out the vitamins and minerals otherwise missing from beans and rice Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Don’t forget the canned tomatoes Meh. They're just glorified seasonings. Not very calorie-dense. Of course, on week 132 of Build back Better Baked Beans, some seasoning might be nice. It balances out the vitamins and minerals otherwise missing from beans and rice They have lycopene and vitamin C. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 7:08:47 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If only there was some completely free, readily-available source of information for stuff like that... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't think the average American knows how to properly cook dried beans. If only there was some completely free, readily-available source of information for stuff like that... Like the directions on the bag? |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 7:09:00 AM EDT
[#42]
question about rice/bean storage --if i wanted LONG term storage...
if i buy the 20lb bag of rice--do i leave it in the bag it came in? Or move to Vac seal bags and store like that? just dosnet seem like the bag they come in is very airtight |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 7:13:58 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL. You need fucking F15s and Tanks or you may as well give up, now. There is no use in having anything incase of hard times or emergencies. You don't need a firearm. That is all fantasy masturbatory shit. The government will keep and protect you. Where did I state that? I’m in the middle of nowhere on a dozen acres or so, produce much of our own food, and just questioning the average suburban dude here hollering about his “preps” in a decade long event? This is at least the 5th or 6th time the majority here has reeeeeeeee’d about the balloon going up and we’re all still here. All I’m saying is you have to produce food if you want a long term solution, not a closet full of buckets. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 7:21:44 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My wife does pretty well with the old seeds I pull out when adding new ones. Not sure of the yields, I have a brown thumb and she prefers I stay out of the garden unless there is heavy stuff to move. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Something I have been. Doing for years now is buying extra packets of garden seeds every year. The extras go into a plastic ammo can. Newest in the back. The can is stuffed full now. My wife is an avid gardener. I am making sure she has what she needs to expand her kitchen garden into something more. @Aikibiker Seed preservation is an interesting topic. I am not an expert but have learned a lot over the years. You can easily keep radish seeds for 5 to 6 years. Parsnip seeds are good for only one season. Then there are the heirloom tomato seeds that were 14 years old. My wife does pretty well with the old seeds I pull out when adding new ones. Not sure of the yields, I have a brown thumb and she prefers I stay out of the garden unless there is heavy stuff to move. You’re doing it right: Buy fresh seeds every year and keep rotating them. It’s a very inexpensive way of always having viable seeds on hand! |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 7:24:51 AM EDT
[#45]
You need hot sauce for your RB and R. Get a couple of cases and trade with it. Here in south La it
would be worth more than gold. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 7:31:17 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: question about rice/bean storage --if i wanted LONG term storage... if i buy the 20lb bag of rice--do i leave it in the bag it came in? Or move to Vac seal bags and store like that? just dosnet seem like the bag they come in is very airtight @Cleatus Those bags usually have small holes in them to allow moisture to escape. You need to seal the bag in Mylar bags with oxygen absorbers. No oxygen = no oxidation of fats and it will last 20+ years. Mylar protects it from insects and oxygen. You can put the Mylar into 5 gallon buckets to protect from mice. Store in a cool dry place in your house. https://www.amazon.com/10-Mylar-Bags-Gallon-Absorbers/dp/B00EUDQKU2 |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 7:42:14 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You would think, but this is a misconception. Some people(few) can readily eat the same thing day in and day our. More common is people get very calorie deficient when the available food pales on the palate. They decline in health and then illness starts setting in. It is well documented. Variety, even on occasion, makes a big difference. I forgot to mention sugar and fat in my previous post. Hard working, or stressed, or cold people will start to crave sugar and fat like nobody's business. Honey, turbinado sugar, and other long term stable sweets are worth their weight in gold Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You'll need plenty of seasoning to go with the Beans and Rice. Otherwise, talk about bland meals. If your stuck with rice and beans only...the taste will not rank very on high on the "concern list." You would think, but this is a misconception. Some people(few) can readily eat the same thing day in and day our. More common is people get very calorie deficient when the available food pales on the palate. They decline in health and then illness starts setting in. It is well documented. Variety, even on occasion, makes a big difference. I forgot to mention sugar and fat in my previous post. Hard working, or stressed, or cold people will start to crave sugar and fat like nobody's business. Honey, turbinado sugar, and other long term stable sweets are worth their weight in gold Great post. The same shit meal over and over is demoralizing. Stockpile what makes you happy. Like if all I get to eat today is this_____ I hope it’s “oh dear Lord thank you Jesus good”. The folks who hung themselves in the barn on The Road, did it because they were tired of rice and beans. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 7:43:43 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? When in the history of the US was anyone NOT be able to get food? Ummm...the Depression? A lot of people starved to death. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 7:46:38 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: question about rice/bean storage --if i wanted LONG term storage... if i buy the 20lb bag of rice--do i leave it in the bag it came in? Or move to Vac seal bags and store like that? just dosnet seem like the bag they come in is very airtight Seal in Mylar bags with an O2 absorber (~100cc per gallon). Bag on low humidity days when possible. It also doesn't hurt to freeze things first. ETA: put the mylars in a bucket or other container to guard against damage and rodents. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 7:56:40 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where did I state that? I'm in the middle of nowhere on a dozen acres or so, produce much of our own food, and just questioning the average suburban dude here hollering about his "preps" in a decade long event? This is at least the 5th or 6th time the majority here has reeeeeeeee'd about the balloon going up and we're all still here. All I'm saying is you have to produce food if you want a long term solution, not a closet full of buckets. Gd: I haz thermals....but live in a mcmansion HOA.. I shall be warlord.... Tech forum guy : Day 278 of the big bohhooaloo ... Let's search tge abandoned HOA promising pines....... Wooohooooo thermals.......we are set. Should we bury this guy? He's kinda rank. .
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