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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:40:29 PM EDT
[#1]
While Im not going to shed a tear for any of the morons who associate with this or similar gangs, the precedence that this sets is deeply concerning. I would have sworn that there had already been cases affirming the rights of people to showcase membership to organizations. And Im pretty sure it was a case related to gangs.
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:41:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you join a gang, whose entire purpose is to make money doing crime, it’s not guilt by association. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ha ha! Guilt by association has no place in a free country. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:41:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Not a stretch in the current climate to see this happening to every NRA/Gun club member come next democratic (See also mob rule) President.
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:42:51 PM EDT
[#4]
I’m sure they do bad things and all, ut the group I met once were very polite and respectful... Now, I wouldn’t want to get on their bad side, but they were in no way hostile.
This is a bs court case. Are they going to go after the Girl Scouts because cookies make people fat? |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:43:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Applying that to forum membership is a sobering thought. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:45:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Mongols may be bad guys, but this is damn scary, slippery slope shit.
The D's get in full power, NRA members, ARFcom members, etc. Could easily have the same ruling screw us. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:45:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course the argument can also be made that not everyone is there for the same reason. I’m sure there are some who just like dressing up like a pirate on the weekends and hugging other men while calling each other bro. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ha ha! Guilt by association has no place in a free country. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:45:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really.the forum doesn’t exist for the purposes of criminal activity like a gang does. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Applying that to forum membership is a sobering thought. By the same token, MC participate in all sorts of activities that are not criminal. This ruling is some dangerous bullshit. 
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:46:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Suppose for a minute, the federal government passes a law saying all magazines over 10 round capacity are illegal, and if you have one, you are a felon. Just like in NJ. No grandfathering, nothing. Here in GD we see a lot of grand standing about fuck that law, and I'm not turning mine in. You can have mine bullets first. Blah, blah blah... Then the feds up and prosecute Arfcom as it is now a criminal enterprise by giving felons, the people who are on GD running their sucks, and who say they have these illegal magazines a voice, and a place to associate with other known felons. Now it goes after Arfcom, and the whole membership, this includes, paying and non-paying members.
Don't think it could happen? |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:46:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course the argument can also be made that not everyone is there for the same reason. I'm sure there are some who just like dressing up like a pirate on the weekends and hugging other men while calling each other bro. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:46:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mongols may be bad guys, but this is damn scary, slippery slope shit. The D's get in full power, NRA members, ARFcom members, etc. Could easily have the same ruling screw us. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:46:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you join a gang, whose entire purpose is to make money doing crime, it’s not guilt by association. There's some slippery circular logic at play here, potentially. I can see an easy danger of the government being able to set an extremely low bar for indictment of individuals for simple club membership by declaring their club a criminal enterprise. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:47:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Suppose for a minute, the federal government passes a law saying all magazines over 10 round capacity are illegal, and if you have one, you are a felon. Just like in NJ. No grandfathering, nothing. Here in GD we see a lot of grand standing about fuck that law, and I'm not turning mine in. You can have mine bullets first. Blah, blah blah... Then the feds up and prosecute Arfcom as it is now a criminal enterprise by giving felons, the people who are on GD running their sucks, and who say they have these illegal magazines a voice, and a place to associate with other known felons. Now it goes after Arfcom, and the whole membership, this includes, paying and non-paying members. Don't think it could happen? |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:48:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course the argument can also be made that not everyone is there for the same reason. I'm sure there are some who just like dressing up like a pirate on the weekends and hugging other men while calling each other bro. You can't become a Mongols member without a current member witnessing you commit a violent felony to gain your membership. They instituted this rule after the ATF infiltrated them because they know that undercover law enforcement, who can otherwise do certain things like sell/use drugs and commit other crimes for the furtherance of their role, draws a hard line at committing felony assaults in furtherance of their investigation. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:48:57 PM EDT
[#15]
“The NRA is a terrorist orginization”
-The Left |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:49:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who decides the organization is a criminal enterprise with it's entire purpose being to make money doing crime? What's the standard of evidence for making this declaration? Do the members get to rebut this evidence in a court of law? Or can they just be individually sacked up just for the crime of insignia wearing regardless of whether they have any personal knowledge of any wrong doing of the other members? There's some slippery circular logic at play here, potentially. I can see an easy danger of the government being able to set an extremely low bar for indictment of individuals for simple club membership by declaring their club a criminal enterprise. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: When you join a gang, whose entire purpose is to make money doing crime, it’s not guilt by association. There's some slippery circular logic at play here, potentially. I can see an easy danger of the government being able to set an extremely low bar for indictment of individuals for simple club membership by declaring their club a criminal enterprise. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:50:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Applying that to forum membership is a sobering thought.
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:50:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The level of ignorance about gangs in this thread is amazing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Mongols may be bad guys, but this is damn scary, slippery slope shit. The D's get in full power, NRA members, ARFcom members, etc. Could easily have the same ruling screw us. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:50:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that's what the Harley Owner's Group is for. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Of course the argument can also be made that not everyone is there for the same reason. I'm sure there are some who just like dressing up like a pirate on the weekends and hugging other men while calling each other bro. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:51:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, if the Mongols was an open membership motorcycle club you would have a point. You can't become a Mongols member without a current member witnessing you commit a violent felony to gain your membership. They instituted this rule after the ATF infiltrated them because they know that undercover law enforcement, who can otherwise do certain things like sell/use drugs and commit other crimes for the furtherance of their role, draws a hard line at committing felony assaults in furtherance of their investigation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Of course the argument can also be made that not everyone is there for the same reason. I'm sure there are some who just like dressing up like a pirate on the weekends and hugging other men while calling each other bro. You can't become a Mongols member without a current member witnessing you commit a violent felony to gain your membership. They instituted this rule after the ATF infiltrated them because they know that undercover law enforcement, who can otherwise do certain things like sell/use drugs and commit other crimes for the furtherance of their role, draws a hard line at committing felony assaults in furtherance of their investigation. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:54:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yet the Bloods, Crips, Nortenos, Surenos, MS13, etc are thriving. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:54:40 PM EDT
[#22]
When are Clinton foundation members going to jail?
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:55:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to mention the sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wasteoids, dweebies, and dickheads. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:55:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I won’t white knight for trailer trash gangs on bikes but this sets a dangerous precedent. Imagine all the other ways broad RICO cases could be abused and think about who makes those decisions. Guilt by association has no place in a free country. 
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:55:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The gang decides. I suppose you think the mexican drug cartels are just a botany club too? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: When you join a gang, whose entire purpose is to make money doing crime, it’s not guilt by association. There's some slippery circular logic at play here, potentially. I can see an easy danger of the government being able to set an extremely low bar for indictment of individuals for simple club membership by declaring their club a criminal enterprise. 
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:56:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always figured the felony in thing was a myth since LE still manages to infiltrate them. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:58:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really.the forum doesn’t exist for the purposes of criminal activity like a gang does. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Applying that to forum membership is a sobering thought. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:59:19 PM EDT
[#28]
DNC is just as guilty
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:02:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That’s not at all how it works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Suppose for a minute, the federal government passes a law saying all magazines over 10 round capacity are illegal, and if you have one, you are a felon. Just like in NJ. No grandfathering, nothing. Here in GD we see a lot of grand standing about fuck that law, and I'm not turning mine in. You can have mine bullets first. Blah, blah blah... Then the feds up and prosecute Arfcom as it is now a criminal enterprise by giving felons, the people who are on GD running their sucks, and who say they have these illegal magazines a voice, and a place to associate with other known felons. Now it goes after Arfcom, and the whole membership, this includes, paying and non-paying members. Don't think it could happen? |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:02:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That’s not at all how it works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Suppose for a minute, the federal government passes a law saying all magazines over 10 round capacity are illegal, and if you have one, you are a felon. Just like in NJ. No grandfathering, nothing. Here in GD we see a lot of grand standing about fuck that law, and I'm not turning mine in. You can have mine bullets first. Blah, blah blah... Then the feds up and prosecute Arfcom as it is now a criminal enterprise by giving felons, the people who are on GD running their sucks, and who say they have these illegal magazines a voice, and a place to associate with other known felons. Now it goes after Arfcom, and the whole membership, this includes, paying and non-paying members. Don't think it could happen? |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:05:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mongols may be bad guys, but this is damn scary, slippery slope shit. The D's get in full power, NRA members, ARFcom members, etc. Could easily have the same ruling screw us. But the NRA ect aren't criminal organizations..... |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:06:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah omgs are just like arfcom They aren't some magical ferries that combine their superpowers into one mythical being that is somehow above the law and immune to prosecution. They are merely individuals breaking laws that have been on the books for decades. Now we need to start some bullshit stasi fashion police? Will you feel safer if they do their raping and pillaging without denim / leather vests and scary patches? |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:08:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you fly the Jolly Roger, don't cry when you get treated like a pirate. Motorists should be encouraged to run over every patched Mongol that they see. 
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:09:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure until internet forums and other clubs start requiring you to commit a violent felony witnessed by a full patch member to gain entry they are safe from being designated as an ongoing criminal enterprise. We are supposed the live in a free country. I despise MC’s. Numerous bad experiences (including with one of the cops only clubs), but this goes against everything we hold dear. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:10:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But the NRA ect aren't criminal organizations.....
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:12:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah omgs are just like arfcom |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:13:26 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm not sure an "outlaw" group is going to give a shit about being a really really outlaw group.
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:14:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Non US Citizen Hell's Angels are barred from entering the US. But the NRA ect aren't criminal organizations..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Mongols may be bad guys, but this is damn scary, slippery slope shit. The D's get in full power, NRA members, ARFcom members, etc. Could easily have the same ruling screw us. But the NRA ect aren't criminal organizations..... |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:14:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I won’t white knight for trailer trash gangs on bikes but this sets a dangerous precedent. Imagine all the other ways broad RICO cases could be abused and think about who makes those decisions. Guilt by association has no place in a free country. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:14:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol, tell the cops to fucking prove it. We are supposed the live in a free country. I despise MC's. Numerous bad experiences (including with one of the cops only clubs), but this goes against everything we hold dear. Jesus Christ 
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:17:49 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So we have to let drug dealing gangs copyright their gang symbols because any action we take against them could be applied to the Rotary Club? Meh. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:18:50 PM EDT
[#42]
I'm not interested in OMGs, don't get GD's fascination with them, and absolutely hate the crimes that many of their members commit. But going after all members when no crime has been charged against them personally..? I don't know that I like this.
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:22:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So we have to let drug dealing gangs copyright their gang symbols because any action we take against them could be applied to the Rotary Club? Meh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In the eyes of the left the NRA and any other gun owning group is. If they can do it to the OMGs now, they'll do it to us later. If they are that big of a "criminal organization" we shouldn't have to trump up these bullshit "disorderly conduct" charges and try to arrest them for the color of their clothing. Do some police work, arrest them for actual crimes, and be done with it. I don't support any law that is essentially "well damn Bob we tried but we can't get shit on him. Done? Oh no Bob, of course not, we are the gov and just know he is a bad guy. We have this thing called RICO that just let's us lock him up when we can't get anything else to stick". Never mind....I forget where I am sometimes. More laws! More government! Yay!!!! |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:26:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's an idea.....we arrest them for *gasp* dealing drugs!!!!!! Or any one of the other numerous felonies they commit? If they are that big of a "criminal organization" we shouldn't have to trump up these bullshit "disorderly conduct" charges and try to arrest them for the color of their clothing. Do some police work, arrest them for actual crimes, and be done with it. I don't support any law that is essentially "well damn Bob we tried but we can't get shit on him. Done? Oh no Bob, of course not, we are the gov and just know he is a bad guy. We have this thing called RICO that just let's us lock him up when we can't get anything else to stick". Never mind....I forget where I am sometimes. More laws! More government! Yay!!!! This isn't a "disorderly conduct" charge. The organization was convicted under RICO for dealing drugs!!!!!! Or any one of the other numerous felonies they commit No one is being arrested or sent to prison. The organization has been found by a court to be an ongoing criminal enterprise. That's all that happened. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:28:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah omgs are just like arfcom |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:29:13 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The gang decides. I suppose you think the mexican drug cartels are just a botany club too? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: When you join a gang, whose entire purpose is to make money doing crime, it’s not guilt by association. There's some slippery circular logic at play here, potentially. I can see an easy danger of the government being able to set an extremely low bar for indictment of individuals for simple club membership by declaring their club a criminal enterprise. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:41:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yet Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
But the NRA ect aren't criminal organizations.....  Yet the gov has no problem with antifa............ |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:42:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure until internet forums and other clubs start requiring you to commit a violent felony witnessed by a full patch member to gain entry they are safe from being designated as an ongoing criminal enterprise. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Give the lawyers enough time and they'll find a way. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:43:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yet the gov has no problem with antifa............ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But the NRA ect aren't criminal organizations..... Yet the gov has no problem with antifa............ |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:43:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yet the gov has no problem with antifa............ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But the NRA ect aren't criminal organizations..... Yet the gov has no problem with antifa............ 
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