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Posted: 5/20/2023 4:58:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been called a Russian agent and Putin puffer for the last year and not a single Uke bro has ever came out and said that was going too far. So I say piss on all Uke bros at this point and will call it like I see it. They loved giving fire but aren't keen on receiving it, bunch of progressive hypocrites. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Conversely, those who don't support US intervention in Ukraine are called Putin supporters so we don't have much sympathy back at you. Perhaps UKbros could concede that there are reasonable counter arguments to involvement I've been called a Russian agent and Putin puffer for the last year and not a single Uke bro has ever came out and said that was going too far. So I say piss on all Uke bros at this point and will call it like I see it. They loved giving fire but aren't keen on receiving it, bunch of progressive hypocrites.  |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 4:59:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you skip some meds today? You're way too emotionally involved in this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Maybe you could save some of that energy for the posters accusing others of being Russians? But nah, being objective isn't the point with the Uke crowd. Go team go! Yeah, he's the emotional one. 
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Posted: 5/20/2023 5:22:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is Putin a commie? Not any more than other of the post cold war oligarchs are. If they are unable to take over a former client state with a supply line that is essentially zero, I would respectfully suggest that other incursions to the Baltics, or Poland, are not practical concerns. Ukraineian farmers towed off Russian APC's with their tractors when they broke down. The Russian military is a pathetic shadow of the myth of their ability during the height of the cold war. If you read "MIG Pilot," by Viktor Belenko, you see that even at the hight of Soviet strength, with the most sophisticated jets they had, pilots had to check their hydraulic fluid levels themselves for fear tehat the ground crew had siphoned the fluid off to drink. That was the height of the SOviet Union. Edit: for the rest of your post fair point. It's really about what Putin thinks tho, not exactly reality cause it seems he lives in his own reality (same as most authoritarian dictators). If he thinks he could take Ukraine, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to for him to think he could take the Baltics after firing up that propaganda machine (which they are good at) spreading a message to get the west to back down. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 5:26:24 PM EDT
[#4]
We have too many problems here to be giving aid to Ukraine. Our border for starters.
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Posted: 5/20/2023 5:32:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet, they tried anyways. Even tho they can't complete the conquest. Which doesn't make the couple of hundred thousand likely dead Ukrainians any less dead. Or give the displaced people their homes back. Or fix their wrecked economy. Sweden, Finland, Poland, and the Baltic countries seem to think there's some cause for practical concern with regard to Russian military capability. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is Putin a commie? Not any more than other of the post cold war oligarchs are. If they are unable to take over a former client state with a supply line that is essentially zero, I would respectfully suggest that other incursions to the Baltics, or Poland, are not practical concerns. Ukraineian farmers towed off Russian APC's with their tractors when they broke down. The Russian military is a pathetic shadow of the myth of their ability during the height of the cold war. If you read "MIG Pilot," by Viktor Belenko, you see that even at the hight of Soviet strength, with the most sophisticated jets they had, pilots had to check their hydraulic fluid levels themselves for fear tehat the ground crew had siphoned the fluid off to drink. That was the height of the SOviet Union. And yet, they tried anyways. Even tho they can't complete the conquest. Which doesn't make the couple of hundred thousand likely dead Ukrainians any less dead. Or give the displaced people their homes back. Or fix their wrecked economy. Sweden, Finland, Poland, and the Baltic countries seem to think there's some cause for practical concern with regard to Russian military capability. Well of course they are. They're buffer states and have been the sacrificial lambs to a If I was in their position, I suppose I would also have those concerns. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 5:38:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now we gotta see where this goes from start to finish but at least there’s some info to follow up on. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 5:40:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We have too many problems here to be giving aid to Ukraine. Our border for starters. If we did absolutely nothing to assist Ukraine, our southern border would still be completely open with hundreds of thousands or millions of illegals pouring across into the U.S. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 5:42:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now we gotta see where this goes from start to finish but at least there’s some info to follow up on. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:
Now we gotta see where this goes from start to finish but at least there’s some info to follow up on. Good to see the Europeans stepping up. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:00:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much money are we talking about FlyNavy75? How many pilots? Who is getting paid? I await the detailed answer that you care enough about to have thoroughly researched. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who pays for the F16 training, Andrew? How much money are we talking about FlyNavy75? How many pilots? Who is getting paid? I await the detailed answer that you care enough about to have thoroughly researched. @1Andy2 Last week Belgium already stated they would do the training. The 'Muh Concern' angle is just the same old bullshit. https://www.brusselstimes.com/508730/belgium-willing-to-train-ukrainian-pilots-to-fly-f-16s https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/ready-to-train-ukrainian-f-16-fighter-jet-pilots-says-belgium/2899869 https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/en/2023/05/17/belgium-offers-to-train-ukrainian-pilots-to-fly-f-16s/ https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/belgium-ready-to-train-ukrainian-pilots-to-fly-f-16s |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:09:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @1Andy2 Last week Belgium already stated they would do the training. The 'Muh Concern' angle is just the same old bullshit. https://www.brusselstimes.com/508730/belgium-willing-to-train-ukrainian-pilots-to-fly-f-16s https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/ready-to-train-ukrainian-f-16-fighter-jet-pilots-says-belgium/2899869 https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/en/2023/05/17/belgium-offers-to-train-ukrainian-pilots-to-fly-f-16s/ https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/belgium-ready-to-train-ukrainian-pilots-to-fly-f-16s For sure. There's no doubt in my mind that the people yelling about it the loudest would still be opposed even if it wound up costing the American taxpayer zero dollars. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:14:51 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD has moved so far left that saying America first here is now a controversial subject. This is sad. Saying that to a Swede is probably not your best post. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:15:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmm. Costly trips I’m guessing. Especially from a country I’m told is so broke they have to be given everything. I can fly to Japan and the Middle East easily. It’s a lot harder to buy artillery. A lot more than a plane ticket. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:16:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nonsense. Actions have risk to benefit ratio. Ukraine is all risk but no benefit for the US. There is plenty of benefits. You just don’t care. Are you reenlisting in the Taiwanese foreign legion? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:17:00 PM EDT
[#14]
 Vladimir Putin warns the West that he isn't bluffing |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:20:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is plenty of benefits. You just don’t care. Are you reenlisting in the Taiwanese foreign legion? You never seem to actually articulate those benefits. Are you planning on deploying to combat at all during your military career? Or just cheerlead? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:22:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How? You’ve never fired a shot on the border. Y’all dump the contents of your arms room in the Rio Grand or something? Might want to learn about what’s going on before speaking and removing all doubt. The state of Texas pays hazard pay for soldiers sent down to the border. Why? 600$ a month. Soldier shoots IA attacking him |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:22:53 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:28:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You never seem to actually articulate those benefits. Are you planning on deploying to combat at all during your military career? Or just cheerlead? Ukraine doesn’t doesn’t have a lot of direct interest, but maintaining the rules based order, degrading Russias conventional threats and ensuring that NATO remains relevant and credible are all in the US and Wests best interests. Believing that the United States could not become involved in a European war where a Democracy is being invaded by Russia is lunacy. Russia just thought they could do it fast enough the West would have to accept it. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:34:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine doesn’t, but maintaining the rules based order, degrading Russias conventional threats and ensuring that NATO remains relevant and credible are all in the US and Wests best interests. Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine doesn’t, but maintaining the rules based order, degrading Russias conventional threats and ensuring that NATO remains relevant and credible are all in the US and Wests best interests. We will have to equally apply this rules based order piece in order for that to be credible in the least, and we know this doesn't happen. Supposedly Russia's conventional threat no longer exists, or so ive been told multiple times. Where does the ROI transition away from the juice being worth the squeeze? If they have been reduced 60% for example after 15 months and 60+ billion, but it takes another year and twice as much to move another 5-10%, when exactly do we stop? What is the attainable goal since at this point pushing Russia completely out is becoming less and less likely? NATO hasn't been relevant since 1991. The United States is however. Quoted: Believing that the United States could not become involved in a European war where a Democracy is being invaded by Russia is lunacy. Russia just thought they could do it fast enough the West would have to accept it. I agree with being involved. There has to be a tear line to that involvement, especially as it starts encroaching on national defense initiatives with tangible risks to us being underwritten. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:36:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD has moved so far left that saying America first here is now a controversial subject. This is sad. It’s only “controversial” because the people who like to yell it the loudest are disingenuous and use it to mean “America Only” and wield the phrase as an attack on anyone who dares give any thought to other countries, and imply they do not care about the US. Lets try being honest. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:39:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s only “controversial” because the people who like to yell it the loudest are disingenuous and use it to mean “America Only” and wield the phrase as an attack on anyone who dares give any thought to other countries, and imply they do not care about the US. Lets try being honest. We are in no position to waste treasure over a bullshit country like Ukraine. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:40:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  Quote HistoryYeah, I'm sure he's just playing  Bakhmut May 2023 time lapse - Russian progress over the year so far  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:43:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are in no position to waste treasure over a bullshit country like Ukraine. Did I miss where you explained why you prefer Zimbabwe over Ukraine? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:44:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are in no position to waste treasure over a bullshit country like Ukraine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It’s only “controversial” because the people who like to yell it the loudest are disingenuous and use it to mean “America Only” and wield the phrase as an attack on anyone who dares give any thought to other countries, and imply they do not care about the US. Lets try being honest. We are in no position to waste treasure over a bullshit country like Ukraine. That’s a matter for debate, but also not what my post is about. It’s about your and others insinuations. You’ve been around a long time and until recently I’ve generally seen you as being rather level headed, so I’m not really sure why you’ve fallen into this game of childish dishonesty. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:44:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryThis thread gets dumber and dumber with every passing second. I was about to just shrug and let it pass... but then you took the time to edit more dumb into it. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:45:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did I miss where you explained why you prefer Zimbabwe over Ukraine? Pick any country you want and I’d rather support than Ukraine, Russia, China, Mexico or Canada. The last five? Pick your order, I don’t care. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:46:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are in no position to waste treasure over a bullshit country like Ukraine. Those m113s and f16s in the bone yard are treasures. Well, okay. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:46:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s a matter for debate, but also not what my post is about. It’s about your and others insinuations. You’ve been around a long time and until recently I’ve generally seen you as being rather level headed, so I’m not really sure why you’ve fallen into this game of childish dishonesty. ChIlDIsh DisHoONEsTy Lol. Sorry you’ve ran across a different opinion. Hope you get thru this. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:46:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pick any country you want and I’d rather support than Ukraine, Russia, China, Mexico or Canada. The last five? Pick your order, I don’t care. You would rather support overt enemies of the United States over Ukraine? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:48:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those m113s and f16s in the bone yard are treasures. Well, okay. Wait, I thought Europe was giving them F16s? And I’ve asked you this before but what is the cost of taking a boneyard jet and upgrading it to becoming operational? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:48:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those m113s and f16s in the bone yard are treasures. Well, okay. Again with your deliberate dishonestly over the scope of material support provided. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:49:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pick any country you want and I’d rather support than Ukraine, Russia, China, Mexico or Canada. The last five? Pick your order, I don’t care. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did I miss where you explained why you prefer Zimbabwe over Ukraine? Pick any country you want and I’d rather support than Ukraine, Russia, China, Mexico or Canada. The last five? Pick your order, I don’t care. I’d love to hear why you would support North Korea over a nato country. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:49:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You would rather support overt enemies of the United States over Ukraine? I support my own country. Corrupt ex Soviet vassals are of no concern to me. They can roll to Moscow or get rolled tomorrow. Don’t care. In case you haven’t noticed, this country is falling apart. Let’s start there before continuing to be world savior to some corrupt shithole. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:51:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did I miss where you explained why you prefer Zimbabwe over Ukraine? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:51:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’d love to hear why you would support North Korea over a nato country. North Korea is no threat to anyone other than North Koreans. They can have their dystopia in peace. They have millions of people there and if they wanted they could fix their own problems. I know it sucks to think some people want to solve our own problems but that’s my stance. We don’t need another twenty year war. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:52:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good question. That was a head scratcher of a statement to make. Can either of you type the words “America first”? Just one post with those words. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:53:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ChIlDIsh DisHoONEsTy Lol. Sorry you’ve ran across a different opinion. Hope you get thru this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That’s a matter for debate, but also not what my post is about. It’s about your and others insinuations. You’ve been around a long time and until recently I’ve generally seen you as being rather level headed, so I’m not really sure why you’ve fallen into this game of childish dishonesty. ChIlDIsh DisHoONEsTy Lol. Sorry you’ve ran across a different opinion. Hope you get thru this. I thought you were on board with calling things like you see it? Now you are going to whinge when someone calls out your disingenuous bullshit? Grow up. America first, but not America only. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:55:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought you were on board with calling things like you see it? Now you are going to whinge when someone calls out your disingenuous bullshit? Grow up. Give an example of something I’ve said that is disingenuous and not simply an opinion different than your own? Man you Uke grifters are borderline religious over this grift. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:55:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Give an example of something I’ve said that is disingenuous and not simply an opinion different than your own? Man you Uke grifters are borderline religious over this grift. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I thought you were on board with calling things like you see it? Now you are going to whinge when someone calls out your disingenuous bullshit? Grow up. Give an example of something I’ve said that is disingenuous and not simply an opinion different than your own? Man you Uke grifters are borderline religious over this grift. I already did. You even responded to the post and just went on a tangent. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:55:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought you were on board with calling things like you see it? Now you are going to whinge when someone calls out your disingenuous bullshit? Grow up. America first, but not America only. America first but…… I support the 2A but…. Same energy, Low T post |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:57:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I already did. What are you crying about? As I told the Air Force dude, your side won. You get unlimited support to zukraine. Don’t know why it pisses you off when I disagree with that. You’ve won, take your W and find another grift to support. Surely there is another irrelevant country we can throw money at, no? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:57:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: America first but…… I support the 2A but…. Same energy, Low T post Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I thought you were on board with calling things like you see it? Now you are going to whinge when someone calls out your disingenuous bullshit? Grow up. America first, but not America only. America first but…… I support the 2A but…. Same energy, Low T post So you acknowledge when you say america first you mean america only? Since that’s the only reason you’d have an issue with what I said. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:58:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you acknowledge when you say america first you mean america only? Since that’s the only reason you’d have an issue with what I said. So you can’t say just America first. There has to be a qualifier? Got it. Say no more. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 6:59:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuote History |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:01:27 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can either of you type the words "America first"? Just one post with those words.  Supporting Ukraine's fight against Russia is the best way to avoid a direct confrontation with Russia down the road, in my opinion. Is that too complicated of a way for you to understand "America first?"? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:01:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you can’t say just America first. There has to be a qualifier? Got it. Say no more. Of course there has to be a qualifier when the person I’m discussing the phase with is dishonest and imparts additional and distorted meaning to the words beyond what it actually means. However in the truest and most noble way: America First |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:02:12 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: North Korea is no threat to anyone other than North Koreans. They can have their dystopia in peace. They have millions of people there and if they wanted they could fix their own problems. I know it sucks to think some people want to solve our own problems but that's my stance. We don't need another twenty year war. didn't you just do some pearl clutching about Russia launching nukes? NK threatens the same and has the means of doing it. But they're no threat to anyone... |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:03:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not going to take seriously the criticism of someone who just said they would support Russia or China over Ukraine. Holy Supporting Ukraine's fight against Russia is the best way to avoid a direct confrontation with Russia down the road, in my opinion. Is that too complicated of a way for you to understand "America first?"? There is a difference between supporting and not giving a shit. I’d like it if Russia, China and Ukraine disappeared off the planet tomorrow. World would be a much better place for it. And it’s arguable at best that we are decreasing chances of fighting them and not increasing them. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:04:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again with your deliberate dishonestly over the scope of material support provided. Such as? Himars? M777? gmlrs? 155mm? Hmmwvs? M109s? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:05:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I support my own country. Corrupt ex Soviet vassals are of no concern to me. They can roll to Moscow or get rolled tomorrow. Don’t care. In case you haven’t noticed, this country is falling apart. Let’s start there before continuing to be world savior to some corrupt shithole. We can’t handle both? |
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