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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:16:58 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We're at about 60 billion. At this rate it'll take decades to hit a trillion. Sure would be nice to have that money here. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:17:26 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You really think the only threat Russia poses is conventional? Jfc. Quote HistoryQuoted: You really think the only threat Russia poses is conventional? Jfc. How exactly is the asymmetric or nuclear threat going to be stopped in Ukraine? Is the Ukrainian offensive going to pour over the border and take control of Russian silos? Quoted: Degraded is not destroyed. Lol, you think trench warfare inside Ukraine will ever fully destroy the Russian military? How do you think chasing down the last BMP in Russia is going to assist us against our current pacing threat, China? |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:18:55 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what is your proposal to neutralize their nuclear arsenal? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You really think the only threat Russia poses is conventional? Jfc. So what is your proposal to neutralize their nuclear arsenal?  KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview. Explains KGB Manipulation of US Public Opinion |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:20:24 PM EST
[#4]
The TaiwanBros go ape anytime the US sends as much as a single bullet to Ukraine. Their much desired war with China will surely fail to materialize if they don't have all that legacy military gear.
I'm looking forward to the $60 billion package in new military aid to Ukraine in September. Their outrage will be delicious. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:20:59 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not even talking about their nuclear ability.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOmXiapfCs8Ah, you think we're going to crush their IW capacity and national ideology without ever setting foot in the country. Neato. Whats the battleplan in your mind to destroy their non kinetic MDO capabilities? |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:21:58 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not even talking about their nuclear ability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOmXiapfCs8Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You really think the only threat Russia poses is conventional? Jfc. So what is your proposal to neutralize their nuclear arsenal? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOmXiapfCs8Those are their “other strategic” capabilities and our Gov has fucked up it response multiple times. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:22:46 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As opposed to deterring China when they know you are out of money, manpower and missiles 15 minutes after this conflict ends? You guys keep claiming their military capacity is completely destroyed, but then 5 minutes later compare them to Germany in 1938. Which is it? I never peddled the line that Russia is on the verge of collapse. Btw, Ukraine is 16+ the size of Taiwan. Why you guys so hell bent of defending little ol Taiwan and not Ukraine? Oh the Chipd thing right? If China attacks TSMC is history. Just a few weeks with chemicals and parts. The 100+ million ASML machines are ruined. China doesn't even need to invade Taiwan to do that, it just happens from a couple week long blockaid. The only hope is deterrence. The US has plenty of capability. There is an shit ton of assets all over the place in that region that we and our partners possess and aren't giving up. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:24:02 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never peddled the line that Russia is on the verge of collapse. Btw, Ukraine is 16+ the size of Taiwan. Why you guys so hell bent of defending little ol Taiwan and not Ukraine? Oh the Chipd thing right? If China attacks TSMC is history. Just a few weeks with chemicals and parts. The 100+ million ASML machines are ruined. China doesn't even need to invade Taiwan to do that, it just happens from a couple week long blockaid. The only hope is deterrence. The US has plenty of capability. There is an shit ton of assets all over the place on that region that we and our partners possess and aren't giving up. It isn't just chips, not even close.. and if you think it is I suggest you do some reading before you continue speaking. Also reevaluate your position on capability when aligned against a threat like China. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:24:21 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have we attritited their strategic and other strategic capabilities? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Because Russia is continuing to degrade its military and its costing us pennies on the dollar and without American lives being risked. Letting Russia take over Ukraine now would be retarded. Ukraine is willing to pay the cost in blood to take down one of our biggest enemies. Supposedly according to you they are already taken down. I keep hearing about how decimated the Russians are. Why can't Europe and Ukraine seal the deal then and let us prepare for the next global crisis thats 98% our burden? Why do we keep having to reach into the "break glass in case of fire" pile if that is the case? Either they are a threat to the US or they aren't. The NSS says they aren't. I agree. So where is the tear line for this? Summer 23? 2027? Into perpetuity? Have we attritited their strategic and other strategic capabilities? |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:25:39 PM EST
[#10]
The OrangeMan told them aid to Ukraine is bad so they have to follow their leader.
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:26:54 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine has hit at least one strategic bomber and they're using up a lot of nuclear capable missiles. We're also getting a ton of information on their systems and showing China our shit works as advertised. I thought you weren't talking about nukes? But, since you waffled, in over a year Ukraine has reduced their nuclear capacity by...a bomber and some missiles which I keep getting told are going to run out any...minute....now. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:31:01 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not even talking about their nuclear ability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOmXiapfCs8Unfortunately that ship has sailed |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:31:39 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The OrangeMan told them aid to Ukraine is bad so they have to follow their leader. A well thought out point. Nice job. But from now on, speak less. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:32:49 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actual history does not support your position. Pre-WW2 years US harbors were not closed and US was not isolating from the world Wrong again. Pre-war, we were maintaining US territories (and poorly aided at that) but little more than Lend-lease with GB. Pearl Harbor was brand new. The Great Depression was still full bore and our Army/AF was at near-historic lows in readiness. The battleship still ruled according to Navy doctrine. We were relying on isolationism. It was obvious to Roosevelt and many others that isolationist policy was crumbling before our eyes. It made us flatfooted. He believed the war was coming and we were not ready, not even close. He stalled getting into the war many to buy time. Even Carnac the Magnificent had no clue when it would start. Marshall carried a black book with every senior officer's name and their qualities. He had his best picked and who would never see the battlefield. Key business Leaders were coordinating plans and establishing new supply lines. Still, we were not ready when Pearl Harbor was attacked. Our territories were so poorly ready, they were overrun with ease. We were not in the League of Nations and trusting in treaties that everyone else saw as useless. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1541674103?tag=arfcom00-20 |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:38:18 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know what real tyranny is. Honestly, we haven't seen real tyranny yet. If the Democrats get the House back and keep the WH, in 2024, I suspect you'll get your wish and we all will dearly regret it. Ask the Jan 6 guys about tyranny. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:39:12 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought you weren't talking about nukes? But, since you waffled, in over a year Ukraine has reduced their nuclear capacity by...a bomber and some missiles which I keep getting told are going to run out any...minute....now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ukraine has hit at least one strategic bomber and they're using up a lot of nuclear capable missiles. We're also getting a ton of information on their systems and showing China our shit works as advertised. I thought you weren't talking about nukes? But, since you waffled, in over a year Ukraine has reduced their nuclear capacity by...a bomber and some missiles which I keep getting told are going to run out any...minute....now. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:39:52 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately that ship has sailed Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm not even talking about their nuclear ability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOmXiapfCs8Unfortunately that ship has sailed  |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:40:36 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I read an article not too long ago that pitched F/A-18s that are being retired around the world. The US, Aussies, Spanish, Finland and Swiss are all retiring or looking to retire their legacy Hornets. Lots of training cadre, spare parts and aircraft available We wont be retiring our hornets before we get our F-35s.. and about the 30 or so that we still have, you'd be luck to have 8-10 in the air at any given time. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:45:24 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A well thought out point. Nice job. But from now on, speak less. Sure Maverick. ?? |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:45:32 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not later. Never. Ever. Right, weak minds said Ukraine could never operate an Abrams too. You really don't know much about Ukrainians. Were you one of those who said Ukraine wouldn't last a week. Oops!. I was in Saudi Arabia when "Experts" said the Saudis could never fly a F-15, that is until they shot down Iranian F-4 fighters. You could never make the case that Ukrainian pilots are inferior. Ego does not replace facts. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:48:16 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The cognitive dissonance required to post that while at the same supporting their position is amazing No, I just don't run around yelling, "The sky is falling" while pre-maturely ejaculating. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:49:28 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right, weak minds said Ukraine could never operate an Abrams too. You really don't know much about Ukrainians. Were you one of those who said Ukraine wouldn't last a week. Oops!. I was in Saudi Arabia when "Experts" said the Saudis could never fly a F-15, that is until they shot down Iranian F-4 fighters. You could never make the case that Ukrainian pilots are inferior. Ego does not replace facts. Who said they couldn't operate an Abrams? There's literally nothing to it. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:51:15 PM EST
[#23]
So, are our new best mooching pals the Ukes going to help us when China kicks it off? Or are they going to align themselves with the tiger?
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:52:48 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, are our new best mooching pals the Ukes going to help us when China kicks it off? Or are they going to align themselves with the tiger? Is China going to attack the USA? |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:56:42 PM EST
[#25]
Dupe
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:56:49 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys were pulling the same shit before..."lolwut you guys are complaining about Hawk missiles from the 80's"...then we pushed Stinger, and then NASAM, and then IRIS, and now Patriot. You guys still use the "HAwK mIsSulZ, loL" nonsense to this day to spread your disinformation. Now we've just switched the same exact strategy to HARM. After they don't get it done and blow through the legacy stockpiles it immediately starts tapping into current PGM magazines in all functional areas....and you know this. I never mentioned HARM or Hawk. Don't give a shit. The "now" is what Ukraine needs to win and win convincingly. You are only interested in making Russia more powerful. If our stocks are so low we are in danger of running out of missiles in a small war, then you should be screaming over our being unprepared for any war whatsoever. Clear out the old and make better now that we know what real weaknesses Russia has. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 5:58:12 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Crimea was taken during Obama's watch. What did he do? oh, right. NOTHING. You need to go back to Trump's speeches. You seem to have a four-year blank space. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:00:27 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never mentioned HARM or Hawk. Don't give a shit. The "now" is what Ukraine needs to win and win convincingly. You are only interested in making Russia more powerful. If our stocks are so low we are in danger of running out of missiles in a small war, then you should be screaming over our being unprepared for any war whatsoever. Clear out the old and make better now that we know what real weaknesses Russia has. What exactly does "win convincingly" mean? Expel every Russian from pre-2014 borders? What's the cutoff on that agenda? You just don't understand how any of this works. We are going to be ok on munitions, somewhere around 2028. The more complex systems we waste now, the less we have in the 3-5 years before everything gets straightened out. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:01:33 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean to tell me there are zero second order effects? It will cost zero dollars, deplete our ammo inventory by zero, or divert absolutely no maintenance or training resources? We will pull them off a flat rack at forklift them.over to Ukraine HQ and call it a day? Why didn't you lead with that? So who is lining up to buy all of them? Who? Zimbabwe? |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:02:28 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was the theory behind “Lend Lease”. We still went to war. Fair. WW2 was really just a proxy war between the US And Germany. We fought them (almost) to the last Russian. 
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:02:35 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait, is the plan to GIVE them to em, and not sell em? If so, who's footing the bill? Is General Dynamics donating em? GD hasn’t made a Viper in over 30 years. Lockheed Martin makes them now. The primary construction for them is in Spartanburg SC. The factory in Texas makes Fat Amys now. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:03:55 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First of all I believe in Feudalism, second of all I am sad they took away my forever war and outsourced it to foreigners. I believe Americans should fight the forever wars, not dirty foreigners. Why do you support stealing American jobs? ROFL. "Stealing", seriously, if you believe in feudalism, you don't believe in jobs. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:03:55 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The TaiwanBros go ape anytime the US sends as much as a single bullet to Ukraine. Their much desired war with China will surely fail to materialize if they don't have all that legacy military gear. I'm looking forward to the $60 billion package in new military aid to Ukraine in September. Their outrage will be delicious. Why do you keep insisting it’s desired. Firstly that plays into China talking points on USA provoking a war over Taiwan and 2nd neither I nor to my knowledge has anyone arguing for Taiwan’s defense suggested, implied or stated a desire for war with China. I’ve stated war is inevitable with China but my reasoning is because of China aggression or miscalculation. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:05:15 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So who is lining up to buy all of them? Who? Zimbabwe? Who cares? Is Ukraine buying them? |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:07:22 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never peddled the line that Russia is on the verge of collapse. Btw, Ukraine is 16+ the size of Taiwan. Why you guys so hell bent of defending little ol Taiwan and not Ukraine? Oh the Chipd thing right? If China attacks TSMC is history. Just a few weeks with chemicals and parts. The 100+ million ASML machines are ruined. China doesn't even need to invade Taiwan to do that, it just happens from a couple week long blockaid. The only hope is deterrence. The US has plenty of capability. There is a shit ton of assets all over the place in that region that we and our partners possess and aren't giving up. It’s also for location, don’t believe me? Ask Japan because the Japanese are bringing up Taiwan at G-7 this week. They are worried about losing the first island chain which means their and South Korea’s entire economy become subject to the control and mercy of China. Which is why the USA keeps running FONOPS. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:09:55 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The OrangeMan told them aid to Ukraine is bad so they have to follow their leader. I might be off but my impression is the GD Trump vote is anti war whether Ukraine or Taiwan. Don’t quote me but I don’t see much drop posts in my China threads and when I do it’s often not in support of Taiwan and occasionally not in support of South Korea. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:12:51 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is China going to attack the USA? Do you guys even click on PACOM press releases once a year? Yes https://breakingdefense.com/2023/03/missile-defense-agency-details-evolving-incremental-vision-for-guam-air-defenses/?amp=1 |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:15:29 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why only F-16's? You're a bigoted Russia shill if you don't support donating F-35's that were designed to slay Ivan. I'm writing my congressman now, we can send F-35's and then create more Lockheed revenue building the replacements Ukraine also requested F-15s if the F-16 couldn’t be made available |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:17:06 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait, is the plan to GIVE them to em, and not sell em? If so, who's footing the bill? Is General Dynamics donating em? G-7 is underway so details are sparse but as of now Netherlands would provide, USA would train and Poland and UK would assist. Things may change, this is the preliminary current situation. G-7 will discuss Taiwan and Ukraine. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:18:02 PM EST
[#40]
I thought the gripe was that European NATO wasn't doing its fair share to support Ukraine? Now we're pissed off about them sending Ukraine F16s?
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:19:11 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never been in the military but it took me less than four months to master DCS F16C 4 months from the time Biden WH receives official request so earliest possible time frame would be this fall. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:20:09 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ask the Jan 6 guys about tyranny. Is that the best you can come up with? Where are all the concentration camps? Where are the political officers in every factory? Where are the burned-down churches? How much of your property and bank accounts have been seized? I am concerned about those people but it does not signal the age of tyranny. Look at what Trudeau did to the truckers. That is in your face tyranny. My wife can never return to Canada. You are way off the mark. A family member was killed by tyrants, let me know when we get there. Regardless, we resist, not roll over. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:22:45 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many 100 billions of $$$$ have we spent? This has to stop - we don't even fucking have the money to pay our own bills and here we are giving Billions$$ to Ukraine. This would not have happened if Trump were president. Fuck every democrat that has ever lived. $113 billion total I’ll leave the rest for others to debate |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:24:52 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, are our new best mooching pals the Ukes going to help us when China kicks it off? Or are they going to align themselves with the tiger? They were in Iraq and Afghanistan. Five thousand were sent and 18 were killed in Iraq. They sent way above other countries with their strength. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:25:49 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What exactly does "win convincingly" mean? Expel every Russian from pre-2014 borders? What's the cutoff on that agenda? You just don't understand how any of this works. We are going to be ok on munitions, somewhere around 2028. The more complex systems we waste now, the less we have in the 3-5 years before everything gets straightened out. As in Russia never wanting to return. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:27:39 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who cares? Is Ukraine buying them? Duh, yea. I'd charge $1 a pound so long as they tear Russia a new hole. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:31:51 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were in Iraq and Afghanistan. Five thousand were sent and 18 were killed in Iraq. They sent way above other countries with their strength. Quote HistoryQuoted: They were in Iraq and Afghanistan. Five thousand were sent and 18 were killed in Iraq. They sent way above other countries with their strength. So were Uganda and Nigeria, are we now responsible for funding their defense? Quoted: As in Russia never wanting to return. So what's your resource cutoff for this amorphous undefinable goal? Is there one? Quoted: Duh, yea. I'd charge $1 a pound so long as they tear Russia a new hole. So what is the ROI on supporting fighters that cannot successfully operate in a contested environment? How are they going to "tear them a new hole" from the rear area? These kinds of discussions are fun when using emotion paired with a distinct lack of understanding about the big picture implications. Once you start deep diving things don't look so awesome anymore. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:32:50 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is China going to attack the USA? Again? Or more? Or what? |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:39:43 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do you keep insisting it’s desired. Firstly that plays into China talking points on USA provoking a war over Taiwan and 2nd neither I nor to my knowledge has anyone arguing for Taiwan’s defense suggested, implied or stated a desire for war with China. I’ve stated war is inevitable with China but my reasoning is because of China aggression or miscalculation. Defending Taiwan implies a direct mitary conflict with a near peer adversary armed with nuclear weapons. A situation we have avoided for very good reason for decades. Proxy wars good, direct conflict bad. Or do you think we are going to do some Top Gun shit and the Chinese will cower away? What will happen is all the bad economic shit you have alluded to PLUS a destroyed fleet and our bases. Arm Taiwan to the hilt, like we are doing with Ukraine. Let the Taiwanese fight China. But direct conflict with China will be a disaster. |
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Posted: 5/19/2023 6:43:32 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Falcons would work better for Ukraine than harriers. Harriers are operated by very few people anymore. The marines are getting rid of theirs. Poland has a large fleet. Romania is getting some used Jordanian planes. Poland alone has the infrastructure setup now for heavier work than -10 level. The falcon would work a lot better. How are they going to build dispersed airfields with infrastructure and support or defend a consolidated base. F—16’s are not a robust airframe on poor runway conditions. Both the UK and the YS have lots of boneyard harrier airframes. |
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