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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:10:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, now that that response is out of the way, feel free to refute anything in it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That is an awful lot of of emotional writing flying in formation. Ok, now that that response is out of the way, feel free to refute anything in it. I cannot refute your feelings. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:11:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damnit Swede. Why aren’t you A,Erica first? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It’s pretty telling. Indeed. And much like having pronouns, so is having an Ukraine flag in your bio. Ah yes, you’re one of those people. That explains it. Damnit Swede. Why aren’t you A,Erica first? Obviously I hate America. Why else would I support sending Dutch fighters to Ukraine, so they can rofl-stomp russians? 
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:11:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  . Jesus man. He’s Swedish.You are seriously unhinged. I’d recommend a DNIF period. Well then he can put America first too. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:13:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well then he can put America first too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: . Jesus man. He’s Swedish.You are seriously unhinged. I’d recommend a DNIF period. Well then he can put America first too. 
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:13:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot refute your feelings. Least surprising response. I’d say I would have expected more from you but that would be a lie. Like I said, you are getting your way. Unlimited US taxpayer dollars spent with no strings for as long as it takes. You win. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:14:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Least surprising response. I’d say I would have expected more from you but that would be a lie. Like I said, you are getting your way. Unlimited US taxpayer dollars spent with no strings for as long as it takes. You win. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I cannot refute your feelings. Least surprising response. I’d say I would have expected more from you but that would be a lie. Like I said, you are getting your way. Unlimited US taxpayer dollars spent with no strings for as long as it takes. You win. That’s a factually incorrect summary of my position. Again, intellectual dishonesty or lack of comprehension from you. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:16:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s a factually incorrect summary of my position. Again, intellectual dishonesty or lack of comprehension from you. Neither. Like I said you win. All I can do is pay a shit ton of taxes and bitch about it here. You get the next decade to see us support them. Congrats, gotta take those wins when you get them. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:25:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: nO MaTtEr tHe CosT Ridiculous Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No cost is too high for Ukraine’s total victory. Back to its original borders. If Russia uses nukes so do we. Actually you might throw NATO countries in there too. But like I said no matter the cost to us or the world. nO MaTtEr tHe CosT Ridiculous Abandoning the Rheinland, Sudetenland and Resttchechei worked out so well, right? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:27:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not directly. Yet. Ask again in the next year. And it really doesn’t matter but if Russia thinks we are then I’m not sure it matters. Actually we did. Guess who flew those MIG-15 in Korea. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:27:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Abandoning the Rheinland, Sudetenland and Resttchechei worked out so well, right? Exactly the same thing. Where were you crying about liberating Ukraine when they were part of the USSR for decades? Give me a break. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:28:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Well that was a fun! I don't have much to add other than
 Oh yea, and Russia and China is asshoe. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:30:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IMHO, the F-16s won't be the game-changer everyone thinks. They're great birds but will be sitting ducks on the ground.   Attached File |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:33:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Obviously I hate America. Why else would I support sending Dutch fighters to Ukraine, so they can rofl-stomp russians? Russ.. err i mean America first comrade. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:35:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You really think the only threat Russia poses is conventional? Jfc. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Because Russia is continuing to degrade its military and its costing us pennies on the dollar and without American lives being risked. Letting Russia take over Ukraine now would be retarded. Ukraine is willing to pay the cost in blood to take down one of our biggest enemies. Supposedly according to you they are already taken down. I keep hearing about how decimated the Russians are. Why can't Europe and Ukraine seal the deal then and let us prepare for the next global crisis thats 98% our burden? Why do we keep having to reach into the "break glass in case of fire" pile if that is the case? Either they are a threat to the US or they aren't. The NSS says they aren't. I agree. So where is the tear line for this? Summer 23? 2027? Into perpetuity? That's not what he said. What he said, and what is true, is that Russia's pathetic conventional war in Ukraine, win or lose in that theater, will not degrade their strategic assets one iota so the concept that we are stopping Russia as a world threat in th Ukraine is rather a moronic positin. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:36:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russ.. err i mean America first comrade. Big gov progressives like you have a lot more in common with Russia than the rest of us. Go unfuck your worthless state before wading into the deep end. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:37:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never peddled the line that Russia is on the verge of collapse. Btw, Ukraine is 16+ the size of Taiwan. Why you guys so hell bent of defending little ol Taiwan and not Ukraine? Oh the Chipd thing right? If China attacks TSMC is history. Just a few weeks with chemicals and parts. The 100+ million ASML machines are ruined. China doesn't even need to invade Taiwan to do that, it just happens from a couple week long blockaid. The only hope is deterrence. The US has plenty of capability. There is an shit ton of assets all over the place in that region that we and our partners possess and aren't giving up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As opposed to deterring China when they know you are out of money, manpower and missiles 15 minutes after this conflict ends? You guys keep claiming their military capacity is completely destroyed, but then 5 minutes later compare them to Germany in 1938. Which is it? I never peddled the line that Russia is on the verge of collapse. Btw, Ukraine is 16+ the size of Taiwan. Why you guys so hell bent of defending little ol Taiwan and not Ukraine? Oh the Chipd thing right? If China attacks TSMC is history. Just a few weeks with chemicals and parts. The 100+ million ASML machines are ruined. China doesn't even need to invade Taiwan to do that, it just happens from a couple week long blockaid. The only hope is deterrence. The US has plenty of capability. There is an shit ton of assets all over the place in that region that we and our partners possess and aren't giving up. From a strategic standing, Ukraine has absolutely no impact on the US. From a strategic component, from the manufacture of computer components to control of a strategic position with sea lines of trade, Taiwan is actually vital to US interests. To conflate the two is a demonstration of not understanding pretty much anything. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:38:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not what he said. What he said, and what is true, is that Russia's pathetic conventional war in Ukraine, win or lose in that theater, will not degrade their strategic assets one iota so the concept that we are stopping Russia as a world threat in th Ukraine is rather a moronic positin. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:39:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Big gov progressives like you have a lot more in common with Russia than the rest of us. Go unfuck your worthless state before wading into the deep end. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:40:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From a strategic standing, Ukraine has absolutely no impact on the US. From a strategic component, from the manufacture of computer components to control of a strategic position with sea lines of trade, Taiwan is actually vital to US interests. To conflate the two is a demonstration of not understanding pretty much anything. You are absolutely correct. However, the “go team go” crew will never refute it, they just switch to attacking you as a Russian agent. All while claiming some kind of twisted moral superiority. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:41:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As in Russia never wanting to return. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What exactly does "win convincingly" mean? Expel every Russian from pre-2014 borders? What's the cutoff on that agenda? You just don't understand how any of this works. We are going to be ok on munitions, somewhere around 2028. The more complex systems we waste now, the less we have in the 3-5 years before everything gets straightened out. As in Russia never wanting to return. Unless you have plan to roll into Moscow with tanks, that idealistic pie in the sky will never happen, regardless of where the lines are drawn after Ukraine. How do UKbros not understand this simple concept? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:44:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Chill out man.... Maybe you could save some of that energy for the posters accusing others of being Russians? But nah, being objective isn’t the point with the Uke crowd. Go team go! |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:46:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would say that they are going to have to rebuild their conventional threat, which will cost them what would have been spent on their strategic capabilities. That could mean they can't build new strategic capabilities, or maintain their current capabilities. Russia focused on strategic and asymmetric capabilities in the first place, most of which have been unaffected by this war. Their hybrid concept has never placed as much attention on conventional ground fights. A lot of the problems I see consistently in the American analysis of the war is framing it thru a western lense with the same values and weights applied. Thats absolutely not how this works. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:47:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe you could save some of that energy for the posters accusing others of being Russians? But nah, being objective isn't the point with the Uke crowd. Go team go! |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:48:01 PM EDT
[#24]
GD has moved so far left that saying America first here is now a controversial subject. This is sad.
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:49:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're calling people like me who support the Ukrainians people fight Biden supporters, so I really don't have much sympathy. Yeah my guy I’m not saying you support Biden. I am saying you don’t support your country and prioritize other countries ahead of mine. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:51:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah yes, now it comes out. So you make a joke about America first. Telling. Just another current thing, progressive drone who fancies himself as a big thinker, similar to the couple retired USMC O5s here who are similarly challenged. Already triggered by an obvious joke? No wonder you are such an easy prey for ruZZian propagands. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:51:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Already triggered by an obvious joke? No wonder you are such an easy prey for ruZZian propagands. Funny, your position is much more Marxist than mine but go on. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:52:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean like for pretty much most of the 20th century? Lol, some of you act like the USSR never existed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We have defense treaties with Japan and South Korea. Not so much with Taiwan. The consequences of Russian troops in western Ukraine as a threat to Nato should be obvious if you were to look at a map. You mean like for pretty much most of the 20th century? Lol, some of you act like the USSR never existed. They also ignore that the Ukraine was part of the original USSR. They forget that Stalin was from Georgia. The are unable to comprehend that the USSR was more than just Russia. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:53:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: nO MaTtEr tHe CosT Ridiculous Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No cost is too high for Ukraine’s total victory. Back to its original borders. If Russia uses nukes so do we. Actually you might throw NATO countries in there too. But like I said no matter the cost to us or the world. nO MaTtEr tHe CosT Ridiculous I was being facetious. I love conflicts that escalate with zero hope of coming to the table, especially considering the risks. For what gain? What's the plan? As far as I can tell Zelensky wants Ukraine’s original borders. To accomplish that is more than F16's. That's gonna take substantially more than what Ukraine has. Russia hasn't blinked and neither have we. So even though I was being facetious, its still a legitimate question of how far do we go? Russia's complete destruction? Ukraine’s original border? Right now its full speed ahead to war. I hope the payback to our interests is huge and in a substantial way. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:54:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote History[b]Quoted:[/  b]Exactly the same thing. Where were you crying about liberating Ukraine when they were part of the USSR for decades? Give me a break. Because we crushed the evil empire and did exactly that |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:54:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Zelensky traveled to Japan for the G-7? https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/20/us/politics/zelensky-g7-japan.html
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Posted: 5/20/2023 2:59:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Zelensky traveled to Japan for the G-7? https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/20/us/politics/zelensky-g7-japan.html Great, there’s another billion dollars gone. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:04:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great, there’s another billion dollars gone. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Zelensky traveled to Japan for the G-7? https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/20/us/politics/zelensky-g7-japan.html Great, there’s another billion dollars gone. He flew on a French jet to get there. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:04:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He flew on a French jet to get there. I’m talking about what he will be promised while there. But you knew that. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:05:00 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:05:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Aren’t you an artillery officer? The fuck do you know about Dutch and Danish F16s? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I’m amazed at the hubris of people who don’t know what they don’t even know, trying to explain to people who have lived this their entire life. If anyone should be ashamed, you definitely are the top of that list LOL This i a threath about F-16s, you know? You sound a bit like a triggered snowflake pretending to know shit yet you fail badly at reading, so there's that. No, I just annoyed at people who gaslight about shit they don’t know AND YOU’VE CONSTANTLY DEMONSTRATED YOU DON’T KNOW JACK OF SHIT ABOUT THE SUBJECT, BUT THAT DOESN’T STOP YOU FROM BLATHERING ON Aren’t you an artillery officer? The fuck do you know about Dutch and Danish F16s? More than some dude from one of the most cucked country in Europe. Please share with us your military experience. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:06:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah my guy I'm not saying you support Biden. I am saying you don't support your country and prioritize other countries ahead of mine. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:08:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Obviously I hate America. Why else would I support sending Dutch fighters to Ukraine, so they can rofl-stomp russians? I bet Dutch F16s have wooden landing gears…..typical Dutch. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:10:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol...like I said, with comments like that I don't have much sympathy for you complaining about being called a Russia supporter, although I have stated many times on here "having concerns about funding Ukraine war =/= one being a Putin Puffer." Well that certainly makes you different than most Uke fanboys. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:12:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More than some dude from one of the most cucked country in Europe. Please share with us your military experience. Lol, everybody starts demanding resumes once the outcome doesn't match their opinions. Meanwhile the dollar general employee ID flashed by 1andy2 and abakan are A-OK if the narrative is correct. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:14:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great, there’s another billion dollars gone. He was in the Middle East yesterday or earlier this week so I guess he’s doing world tour. Previously he met with Italy then French then UK and Germany governments and received assurances of future support. His wife was in South Korea requesting air defense earlier this week so it now makes sense he’s travel to Japan and meet with her. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:17:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was in the Middle East yesterday or earlier this week so I guess he’s doing world tour. Previously he met with Italy then French then UK and Germany governments and received assurances of future support. His wife was in South Korea requesting air defense earlier this week so it now makes sense he’s travel to Japan and meet with her. Hmm. Costly trips I’m guessing. Especially from a country I’m told is so broke they have to be given everything. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:18:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Zelensky traveled to Japan for the G-7? https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/20/us/politics/zelensky-g7-japan.html Yea he's doing side meetings. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:19:41 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yea he's doing side meetings. That would explain some things I’ve been reading about the G-7. I was under the impression it was China focused but appears Russia and Ukraine are on the table too. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:21:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmm. Costly trips I’m guessing. Especially from a country I’m told is so broke they have to be given everything. So are you talking about a costly trip to take or “talking about what he will be promised while there”? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:22:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They also ignore that the Ukraine was part of the original USSR. They forget that Stalin was from Georgia. The are unable to comprehend that the USSR was more than just Russia. If Russia isn't the successor state to the USSR, then the UN should probably revoke their permanent UN security council position and award it to the various successor states on a rotating basis. We can go ahead and start with Ukraine.  Then maybe Estonia. Russia can get it back in about 30 years since they unfairly held it so long. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:22:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So are you talking about a costly trip to take or “talking about what he will be promised while there”? I’m saying the US will be poorer after this meeting than it was before it. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:23:07 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They also ignore that the Ukraine was part of the original USSR. They forget that Stalin was from Georgia. The are unable to comprehend that the USSR was more than just Russia. Ukraine was part of the USSR, and a good deal of Ukrainians didn’t want to be. Peasants’ land was seized for collective farms throughout the USSR, and resistance to it could be found throughout the country, but Ukrainian nationalism combined with opposition to collectivization likely made for especially strong opposition in Ukraine, and Stalin crushed it, deliberately, and took food away from people and left them to starve, because he was such a bastard. What about the Baltic countries? They were all forcibly “integrated” into the USSR in the late 1930s/early 1940s when Soviet troops marched into those countries and took them, and then started doing commie BS like shipping people off to Siberia and seizing private property. So much of the USSR was brought together by force, so many people, Ukrainians included, didn’t want to be a part of it, but what is a contestant for the most cruel regime in human history, bar none, used force and terror, including mass starvation, to bring them into the USSR or keep them there. Besides outspending the USSR, you have to take into account, when examining its collapse, that it was made up of so many nationalities and peoples who didn’t want to be a part of it in the first place. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:23:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Aren’t you an artillery officer? The fuck do you know about Dutch and Danish F16s? /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/temp-96.gif He knows more than a frigging Applebees waiter so there you go. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 3:26:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are your related bonifides? Every time Europe does something it is contingent upon the US conducting 90% of the heavy lifting and funding. We keep asking what the second order implications to the US will be with European fighters being refurbished and sent to Ukraine, but numbers and logistics are the magical part that get removed from emotion based discussions. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Aren’t you an artillery officer? The fuck do you know about Dutch and Danish F16s? What are your related bonifides? Quoted: I thought everyone wanted Europe to do more. Now people are mad that they are doing more? It's hard to keep up when the goal posts keep moving. Every time Europe does something it is contingent upon the US conducting 90% of the heavy lifting and funding. We keep asking what the second order implications to the US will be with European fighters being refurbished and sent to Ukraine, but numbers and logistics are the magical part that get removed from emotion based discussions. This. NATO= Needs Americans To Operate. |
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