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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:24:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And before. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I bet the cockpit of that Iranian F-4 smelled like shit after that hop. And before.  For sure |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:25:43 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Given that they got the F4's from us, and probably haven't developed their own communications gear for it, I'm betting the F22 pilot could contact him on ANY available frequency. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So how would an American pilot know what frequency to dial up the Iranian pilot? Is none of that stuff encrypted? It's called Guard frequency. 243.0 UHF. The emergency frequency, just for this sort of thing. Given that they got the F4's from us, and probably haven't developed their own communications gear for it, I'm betting the F22 pilot could contact him on ANY available frequency. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:27:43 AM EDT
[#3]
'MERICA!!! |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:30:40 AM EDT
[#4]
It's funny how a story changes from the time that a pilot gets out of the cockpit to when the media asks for a quote.
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:32:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice to know we are "escorting" our $3.2M predator pieces of shit with $200M raptors or $80M hornets.  Pfftt. It's not an escort mission, it's called Bait and Switch. 
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:33:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So how would an American pilot know what frequency to dial up the Iranian pilot? Is none of that stuff encrypted? Most everyone listens in on a few frequencies - it was probably on one of those. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:34:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By no means am I an aviation, or fighter plane expert... But I would wager that most of our fighters, (and especially an F22...With our missles, and radar capabilities), would be able to "escort" a drone from MILES away. In fact, I would assume the drone could be sent into the Danger Zone, with the F22 loitering outside of the Danger Zone. (TOP GUN reference  )
Seriously doubt the F22 was flying around in formation with the drone...Or even within visual range of it. Again...This is just my un-educated assumption. I believe the article state intercept at 16 miles out from the drone. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:34:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The UAVs can handle tasks that manned fighters can't... they have nice cameras, SARs and other payloads. When we already have other assets in the area, it makes no sense to risk losing a few million dollars and possibly starting a war because the plane doesn't have a pilot, especially when the same country you're watching has already tried to shoot down another one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Escorting drones with manned fighters seems to defeat the purpose of having an unmanned drone. The UAVs can handle tasks that manned fighters can't... they have nice cameras, SARs and other payloads. When we already have other assets in the area, it makes no sense to risk losing a few million dollars and possibly starting a war because the plane doesn't have a pilot, especially when the same country you're watching has already tried to shoot down another one. It's not like we haven't strapped missiles to drones or anything like that recently....... |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:35:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Can you really fly up behind another plane without them knowing? http://0.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/d/f/collegehumor.db72b53d4c8abe5c49d795bf45080d04.jpg How do you think air to air collisions happen? |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:36:59 AM EDT
[#10]
This incedent tells me that for some reason, Iranian ground radar was unable to detect and warn the Iranian pilot.
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:37:20 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
pretty much. Like an F16 or F18 couldn't do that same mission for a lot cheaper. I mean, it does seem a shame to buy these really nifty aircraft and never use them. but, lets face it, our enemies fly, at best, F4s. can't let them go to waste. I am sure a DFC is in store for our knight in the sky. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
we have manned planes escorting drones? is that like dividing by zero? Sylvan, you are a glass empty type of guy aren't you.  pretty much. Like an F16 or F18 couldn't do that same mission for a lot cheaper. I mean, it does seem a shame to buy these really nifty aircraft and never use them. but, lets face it, our enemies fly, at best, F4s. can't let them go to waste. I am sure a DFC is in store for our knight in the sky. Who said "You fight the war with the tools you have." Or something to that effect? So do we get this nice, cool stuff that is very pretty and never use it because it is too expensive? Or not use something because it is not PERFECTLY suited to the job? The monetary cost of the weapon does not have to be comparative to the monetary cost of the target. I think its ok to blow up a Zodiac with an LGB, or escort drones with F22s. Hell how much does one 30mm DU or HE round cost? And we're using hundreds on them on goatherders with RPG7s riding on the backs of donkeys. War is EXPENSIVE. Its probably the most expensive thing the human race does. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:38:08 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice to know we are "escorting" our $3.2M predator pieces of shit with $200M raptors or $80M hornets. Might been a setup to give them a warning. Now they can't be sure they won't get shot down for messing with a drone. It's not a bad strategy to force your enemy to rethink their plans. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:38:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably. I wouldn't doubt it. Fighter pilots tend to be highly intelligent and well educated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do their pilots speak English? I know English is the standard language for commercial pilots, just wondering if its the same for military pilots from other countries. Probably. I wouldn't doubt it. Fighter pilots tend to be highly intelligent and well educated. 
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:40:32 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who said "You fight the war with the tools you have." Or something to that effect? So do we get this nice, cool stuff that is very pretty and never use it because it is too expensive? Or not use something because it is not PERFECTLY suited to the job? The monetary cost of the weapon does not have to be comparative to the monetary cost of the target. I think its ok to blow up a Zodiac with an LGB, or escort drones with F22s. Hell how much does one 30mm DU or HE round cost? And we're using hundreds on them on goatherders with RPG7s riding on the backs of donkeys. War is EXPENSIVE. Its probably the most expensive thing the human race does. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
we have manned planes escorting drones? is that like dividing by zero? Sylvan, you are a glass empty type of guy aren't you. pretty much. Like an F16 or F18 couldn't do that same mission for a lot cheaper. I mean, it does seem a shame to buy these really nifty aircraft and never use them. but, lets face it, our enemies fly, at best, F4s. can't let them go to waste. I am sure a DFC is in store for our knight in the sky. Who said "You fight the war with the tools you have." Or something to that effect? So do we get this nice, cool stuff that is very pretty and never use it because it is too expensive? Or not use something because it is not PERFECTLY suited to the job? The monetary cost of the weapon does not have to be comparative to the monetary cost of the target. I think its ok to blow up a Zodiac with an LGB, or escort drones with F22s. Hell how much does one 30mm DU or HE round cost? And we're using hundreds on them on goatherders with RPG7s riding on the backs of donkeys. War is EXPENSIVE. Its probably the most expensive thing the human race does. But if you could limit the cost, why wouldn't you? I drove around in an armored hmmwv instead of an M1 not because I didn't prefer the M1, but that the HMMWV did the job much cheaper and pretty much as well. Whats the AF equivalent of an Uparmored HMMWV? |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:40:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Reminds me of that scene In Final Countdown when the Zero meets up with The Tomcat.....except the F-4 and The F-22 are way farther apart in age
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:41:28 AM EDT
[#16]
Regarding the radar, aren't F-22's supposed to use some kind of passive or difficult to detect radar? Maybe I'm thinking of something else.
ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22_Raptor#Avionics The AN/ALR-94 is a passive receiver system to detect radar signals; composed of more than 30 antennas blended into the wings and fuselage that provide all around coverage. It was described by Tom Burbage, former F-22 program head at Lockheed Martin, as "the most technically complex piece of equipment on the aircraft." It has a greater range (250+ nmi) than the radar, allowing the F-22 to limit its own radar emissions to maximise stealth. As a target approaches, the receiver can cue the AN/APG-77 radar to track the target with a narrow beam, which can be as focused down to 2° by 2° in azimuth and elevation. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:42:03 AM EDT
[#17]
great story, I love it
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:42:57 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, but how would he know which of tens of thousands of frequencies to use? He'd either be told by ground what that Persian dude was transmitting on, or he'd use Guard freq. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So how would an American pilot know what frequency to dial up the Iranian pilot? Is none of that stuff encrypted? It's called Guard frequency. 243.0 UHF. The emergency frequency, just for this sort of thing. Given that they got the F4's from us, and probably haven't developed their own communications gear for it, I'm betting the F22 pilot could contact him on ANY available frequency. I guess I had presumed there were presets in the comm gear. It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:44:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
we have manned planes escorting drones? is that like dividing by zero? all the stuff we are acustomed to, drones operating, ground forces moving at will, CAS, artillery engaging at will, bases not being destroyed, AC-130 support, etc are all possble because of air superiority. in before Sylvan's head explodes
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:44:24 AM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:44:48 AM EDT
[#21]
BullShit.. From where came the Raptor ?
Ok edit. I didn't know you had raptors in the UAE |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:45:46 AM EDT
[#22]
The URL won't paste right, but I found a picture of a F22 and a F4 flying next to each other here:
http://avioners.net/wp-content/uploads/blogger/-fxA_Ysvon7s/T-Sk3C-brNI/AAAAAAAAJ5U/jfFScJEnH_4/s1600/f4_phantom_dog_fighting_f22_raptor.jpg Definitely a difference in technology there. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:45:46 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
F22 pilot is lucky the Iranian wasn't equipped in that badass new fighter they have 
http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/files/q313-1.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/12/article-2277412-175E4B9A000005DC-761_634x422.jpg http://cs402923.userapi.com/v402923715/3ec6/R2oTDgqmuLQ.jpg Might be me, but I bet those 2 are pretty fubar from inhaling the fumes from all that modeling glue.. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:46:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So how would an American pilot know what frequency to dial up the Iranian pilot? Is none of that stuff encrypted? because we do, and sometimes we even tell them what to do |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:46:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats the AF equivalent of an Uparmored HMMWV? An Uparmored HMMWV, one would guess. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:47:40 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
because we do, and sometimes we even tell them what to do Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So how would an American pilot know what frequency to dial up the Iranian pilot? Is none of that stuff encrypted? because we do, and sometimes we even tell them what to do Wouldn't most of the time just be STBY 121.5 ? On our hornets we have painted the centerline external fuel tanks with a big ass red 121.5 freq :) So when we intercept some lost pilot from an obscur airline, not complying with instructions from the ATC, the pilot form on his wing and point the fuel tanK with his finger ;) Even an Iranian pilot would get that ;) 
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:50:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think they were doing a little fishing rather than escorting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nice to know we are "escorting" our $3.2M predator pieces of shit with $200M raptors or $80M hornets. I think they were doing a little fishing rather than escorting. exactly. this had mothing to do with the drone, on the US side anyway. it had everything do do with an Iranian F-4 opetating ff the coast.. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:53:30 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I had presumed there were presets in the comm gear. It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So how would an American pilot know what frequency to dial up the Iranian pilot? Is none of that stuff encrypted? It's called Guard frequency. 243.0 UHF. The emergency frequency, just for this sort of thing. Given that they got the F4's from us, and probably haven't developed their own communications gear for it, I'm betting the F22 pilot could contact him on ANY available frequency. I guess I had presumed there were presets in the comm gear. It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:53:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
all the stuff we are acustomed to, drones operating, ground forces moving at will, CAS, artillery engaging at will, bases not being destroyed, AC-130 support, etc are all possble because of air superiority. in before Sylvan's head explodes Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
we have manned planes escorting drones? is that like dividing by zero? all the stuff we are acustomed to, drones operating, ground forces moving at will, CAS, artillery engaging at will, bases not being destroyed, AC-130 support, etc are all possble because of air superiority. in before Sylvan's head explodes Well that justifies the F18 fleet. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:54:30 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But if you could limit the cost, why wouldn't you? I drove around in an armored hmmwv instead of an M1 not because I didn't prefer the M1, but that the HMMWV did the job much cheaper and pretty much as well. Whats the AF equivalent of an Uparmored HMMWV? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
we have manned planes escorting drones? is that like dividing by zero? Sylvan, you are a glass empty type of guy aren't you. pretty much. Like an F16 or F18 couldn't do that same mission for a lot cheaper. I mean, it does seem a shame to buy these really nifty aircraft and never use them. but, lets face it, our enemies fly, at best, F4s. can't let them go to waste. I am sure a DFC is in store for our knight in the sky. Who said "You fight the war with the tools you have." Or something to that effect? So do we get this nice, cool stuff that is very pretty and never use it because it is too expensive? Or not use something because it is not PERFECTLY suited to the job? The monetary cost of the weapon does not have to be comparative to the monetary cost of the target. I think its ok to blow up a Zodiac with an LGB, or escort drones with F22s. Hell how much does one 30mm DU or HE round cost? And we're using hundreds on them on goatherders with RPG7s riding on the backs of donkeys. War is EXPENSIVE. Its probably the most expensive thing the human race does. But if you could limit the cost, why wouldn't you? I drove around in an armored hmmwv instead of an M1 not because I didn't prefer the M1, but that the HMMWV did the job much cheaper and pretty much as well. Whats the AF equivalent of an Uparmored HMMWV? Of course you should limit cost, but not to the point of paralysis, by waiting/wanting systems that dont even exist. AF equiv of UAHV?? IDK I guess it would be A10 but that is its own can of worms. 
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Posted: 9/19/2013 11:55:35 AM EDT
[#31]
Reminds me of this:
This conversation was overheard on the VHF Guard (emergency) frequency 121.5 MHz while flying from Europe to Dubai. It's too good not to pass along. The conversation went something like this... Air Defense Radar: "Unknown aircraft at (location unknown), you are in Iranian airspace. Identify yourself." Aircraft: "This is a United States aircraft. I am in Iraqi airspace." Air Defense Radar: "You are in Iranian airspace. If you do not depart our airspace we will launch interceptor aircraft!" Aircraft: "This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter. Send 'em up .. I'll wait!" Air Defense Radar: (no response ... total silence). |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:01:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And before. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I bet the cockpit of that Iranian F-4 smelled like shit after that hop. And before. Before was just goat shit. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:09:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll bet the Phantom could sneak up on a plane designed 55 years before it pretty well, too: http://www-tc.pbs.org/kcet/chasingthesun/images/plane_wright_65_lg.jpg |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:09:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm thinking the Wright's could hear an F4 coming. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll bet the Phantom could sneak up on a plane designed 55 years before it pretty well, too: http://www-tc.pbs.org/kcet/chasingthesun/images/plane_wright_65_lg.jpg Helen Keller can hear an F-4 coming from 50 miles out. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:12:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
we have manned planes escorting drones? is that like dividing by zero? Apparently drones make good bait. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:12:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Helen Keller can hear an F-4 coming from 50 miles out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll bet the Phantom could sneak up on a plane designed 55 years before it pretty well, too: http://www-tc.pbs.org/kcet/chasingthesun/images/plane_wright_65_lg.jpg Helen Keller can hear an F-4 coming from 50 miles out. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:13:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apparently drones make good bait. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: we have manned planes escorting drones? is that like dividing by zero? Apparently drones make good bait. He was hunting over bait, then....but it's all good, because he was practicing catch and release. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:14:08 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
we have manned planes escorting drones? is that like dividing by zero? So much wrong with that I can't even begin to describe it. No wonder the U2 pilots have such contempt for drones. ETA: Okay, if hunting over bait, i can see it. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:17:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Raptor pilot to Phantom pilot (upon pulling up alongside Iranian aircraft): 
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:17:28 PM EDT
[#40]
deleted - not necessary.
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:17:36 PM EDT
[#41]
At least the Iranian pilot had more sense than his ancestors did in 1988 during Operation Praying Mantis. When the orders arrived to take out the Iranian ships, CO USS WAINWRIGHT (CG 29) personally ordered the frigate JOSHAN to "stop your engines, abandon ship, I intend to sink you". The JOSHAN foolishly launched a Harpoon which missed. WAINRIGHT and the other American ships and planes did not.
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:20:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, but how would he know which of tens of thousands of frequencies to use? He'd either be told by ground what that Persian dude was transmitting on, or he'd use Guard freq. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So how would an American pilot know what frequency to dial up the Iranian pilot? Is none of that stuff encrypted? It's called Guard frequency. 243.0 UHF. The emergency frequency, just for this sort of thing. Given that they got the F4's from us, and probably haven't developed their own communications gear for it, I'm betting the F22 pilot could contact him on ANY available frequency. The US might have had an AWACS monitoring all freqs. Hell, they were probably listening to the F-4 since he rolled off the tarmac. Called him on his primary comm. The US is pretty f'ing awesome on radio stuff, make no mistake about that. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:22:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do their pilots speak English? I know English is the standard language for commercial pilots, just wondering if its the same for military pilots from other countries. Probably. I wouldn't doubt it. Fighter pilots tend to be highly intelligent and well educated. http://www.barewalls.com/i/c/386489_George-W-Bush-Fighter-Pilot.jpg Degrees from both Harvard and Yale. Not a good example.
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:24:07 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At least the Iranian pilot had more sense than his ancestors did in 1988 during Operation Praying Mantis. When the orders arrived to take out the Iranian ships, CO USS WAINWRIGHT (CG 29) personally ordered the frigate JOSHAN to "stop your engines, abandon ship, I intend to sink you". The JOSHAN foolishly launched a Harpoon which missed. WAINRIGHT and the other American ships and planes did not. Since when do Iranian ships have Harpoons? |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:29:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
F22 pilot is lucky the Iranian wasn't equipped in that badass new fighter they have
http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/files/q313-1.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/12/article-2277412-175E4B9A000005DC-761_634x422.jpg http://cs402923.userapi.com/v402923715/3ec6/R2oTDgqmuLQ.jpg Not one to normally nit pick details but where is the throttle on that damn thing? Does it have a gas and brake pedal? |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:30:58 PM EDT
[#46]
The Iranian air force still has the legacy of being US trained from the 50s to 70s. Not only do the pilots speak English but the maintainers need to as well.
This is one of their new build twin tailed F-5s,note the stenciling isn't in Farsi 
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:31:21 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do their pilots speak English? I know English is the standard language for commercial pilots, just wondering if its the same for military pilots from other countries. Probably. I wouldn't doubt it. Fighter pilots tend to be highly intelligent and well educated. http://www.barewalls.com/i/c/386489_George-W-Bush-Fighter-Pilot.jpg Smarter than you. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:32:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not one to normally nit pick details but where is the throttle on that damn thing? Does it have a gas and brake pedal? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
F22 pilot is lucky the Iranian wasn't equipped in that badass new fighter they have
http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/files/q313-1.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/12/article-2277412-175E4B9A000005DC-761_634x422.jpg http://cs402923.userapi.com/v402923715/3ec6/R2oTDgqmuLQ.jpg Not one to normally nit pick details but where is the throttle on that damn thing? Does it have a gas and brake pedal? left side. can't see it. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:34:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Might be me, but I bet those 2 are pretty fubar from inhaling the fumes from all that modeling glue.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
F22 pilot is lucky the Iranian wasn't equipped in that badass new fighter they have
http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/files/q313-1.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/12/article-2277412-175E4B9A000005DC-761_634x422.jpg http://cs402923.userapi.com/v402923715/3ec6/R2oTDgqmuLQ.jpg Might be me, but I bet those 2 are pretty fubar from inhaling the fumes from all that modeling glue.. yep. does not look real. look at the right sidwall in the cockpit, it is too thin to be real. looks like plastic. the cockpit is pressurized, that looks like a mock up. look how thin the canopy rail is. |
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:38:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do their pilots speak English? I know English is the standard language for commercial pilots, just wondering if its the same for military pilots from other countries. Then again maybe their was a universal language being spoken when a plane just pulls up next to you and you had no idea it was there. You'd be surprised how many foreign countries teach their kids English in schools. Its also good to know it if you want to stay alive, as was the case for the f-4 pilot. |
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