FDA And the Opioid Crisis - Page 3

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FDA And the Opioid Crisis (Page 3 of 6)

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:51:17 PM EDT

[#1]

This is the latest is a long string of crises to keep the war on drugs going. We have turned a social issue into a multi billion dollar a year industry of law enforcement and criminals and jails

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:52:20 PM EDT

[#2]

I've know people that got hooked on pain meds after surgery.

I also know people who need extreme pain management.

While I think these drugs are a good tool to have in the box, I think a little more patient .edu needs to happen. Nobody can be an expert on everything, and they trust their doctor. If these pills are good now, they are better later, right? Lets give docs more than 30 seconds with a patient, and let the doc talk about the VERY REAL side effects of these pain meds.

If a person still wants to get on an addictive pain med, that is between the patient and their doctor.

But to hand out drugs that 100% have nasty side effects, but ban a natural plant that could possibly do the same job, is beyond stupid.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:52:54 PM EDT

[#3]

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Quoted:
Op what in the hell would you have people do?

I live in constant pain and have had a pain management doc for the past 10 years, and I taper myself off to nothing at least once per month just to prove to myself there's no issue, but this shouldn't be anyone's business but mine. Why in the heck should you or the government get in the middle of what's best for my family?

You or anyone else never give a good plan of what should be done in place of these "evil Opiates". It's such a silly liberal argument that these medications are bad so you can't have them, but you know some folks get addicted so everyone can't have them. Some people shoot up schools so you can't have a gun is the same retarded argument. How about everyone stays out of their neighbors life?

I get chronic kidney stones about once per month, and I'd love to see these people who keep saying we shouldn't have relief beg for relief from one kidney stone only to be told nope sorry you just need to stretch and push through the pain because hey you might get addicted. Keep this crap up and see how many suicides start happening.

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Well put. I never thought about the acting like a liberal thing, but it is a legitimate observation. They are all about the weed (which I think should also be between doctor and patient at the very most), but are against the opiates because, as usual, it's time to blame everything but the person. Instead, the inanimate object is evil and should be banned for all. I am growing so tired of this "I don't like what you are doing so let's ban it" mentality. Let people do what they want with themselves. Prescription pills are way safer than their injectable counterparts/illegal cousins, why make things dangerous? People that are truly hurting are going to find a way to decrease that pain, legally or illegally. The government is forcing their hand in many cases, and I can't say that I blame the individual. I blame the government. Just like with prohibition, they are only making things worse. But now they are receiving unlimited funding to combat the "epidemic" that they are making worse, so there is no end in sight.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:57:04 PM EDT

[#4]

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Quoted:

There are not known addictive properties associated with NSAID's, thus they are correctly labeled as non habit forming, but yes, long term use of them certainly leads to plenty of issues and is no better than opioids.

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Yep, say goodbye to you kidneys with long term nsaids, and hello to stomach ulcers and bleeding problems.

These are being prescribed like candy because "it's better than opiates!" Sad.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:59:22 PM EDT

[#5]

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So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

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This is not a clear cut issue.

For every person like you, there are several others who are getting Medicaid to buy them so they can sell them to junkies. The doctors can’t deny the patients the prescription because they will get bad ratings from the junkies, which severely affects their standing with both private and public insurance. The doctors are in a catch 22.

Long term opioid prescriptions just cover up the problem. You still have 5 crushed vertebrae. No insurance company wants to pay for a real fix for the problem because it’s cheaper to just cover it up with OxyContin.

Drying up the supply of pills just covers up the addition problem. Existing opioid addicts will find opioid come hell or high water, but the new batch of addicts growing up will just find a new drug to get high.

No matter what is done, innocent people are going to get fucked while the cartels rake it in.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:06:56 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is the latest is a long string of crises to keep the war on drugs going. We have turned a social issue into a multi billion dollar a year industry of law enforcement and criminals and jails

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Posted: 2/25/2019 3:07:44 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.

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This is very wrong.

Physicians, per .gov regs, have been obligated to regard pain as the fifth vital sign. Putting it on par with blood pressure, heart rate, temperature, et al. This is very new. Physicians have had their reimbursement tied to patient satisfaction scores. Also new. Don’t write an RX to a patient and piss him off......and your pay goes down. It’s nuts. Physicians no longer have the authority to moderate a patients pain meds......and patients, especially the drug seekers, know this. It is a mess, and it is TRULY a .gov created mess.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:07:46 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is not a clear cut issue.

For every person like you, there are several others who are getting Medicaid to buy them so they can sell them to junkies. The doctors can’t deny the patients the prescription because they will get bad ratings from the junkies, which severely affects their standing with both private and public insurance. The doctors are in a catch 22.

Long term opioid prescriptions just cover up the problem. You still have 5 crushed vertebrae. No insurance company wants to pay for a real fix for the problem because it’s cheaper to just cover it up with OxyContin.

Drying up the supply of pills just covers up the addition problem. Existing opioid addicts will find opioid come hell or high water, but the new batch of addicts growing up will just find a new drug to get high.

No matter what is done, innocent people are going to get fucked while the cartels rake it in.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

This is not a clear cut issue.

For every person like you, there are several others who are getting Medicaid to buy them so they can sell them to junkies. The doctors can’t deny the patients the prescription because they will get bad ratings from the junkies, which severely affects their standing with both private and public insurance. The doctors are in a catch 22.

Long term opioid prescriptions just cover up the problem. You still have 5 crushed vertebrae. No insurance company wants to pay for a real fix for the problem because it’s cheaper to just cover it up with OxyContin.

Drying up the supply of pills just covers up the addition problem. Existing opioid addicts will find opioid come hell or high water, but the new batch of addicts growing up will just find a new drug to get high.

No matter what is done, innocent people are going to get fucked while the cartels rake it in.

As good as modern medicine is some things just can't be fixed at our current technology levels. He can get a multi level fusion and is going to very likely be in the same level of pain as prior to surgery. Fusions over time destroy the vertebra above and below the fusion site, thus needing more fusions 5,10,15 years down the line. In some cases doing nothing and easing pain is the best option

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:11:04 PM EDT

[#9]

OP watched a 43 minute TV show called 60 minutes, so he's now an authority on the subject. We'd better listen to him, guys.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:12:23 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is very wrong.

Physicians, per .gov regs, have been obligated to regard pain as the fifth viral sign. Putting it on par with blood pressure, heart rate, temperature, et al. This is very new. Physicians have had their reimbursement tied to patient satisfaction scores. Also new. Physicians no longer have the authority to moderate a patients pain meds......and patients, especially the drug seekers, know this. It is a mess, and it is TRULY a .gov created mess.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.

This is very wrong.

Physicians, per .gov regs, have been obligated to regard pain as the fifth viral sign. Putting it on par with blood pressure, heart rate, temperature, et al. This is very new. Physicians have had their reimbursement tied to patient satisfaction scores. Also new. Physicians no longer have the authority to moderate a patients pain meds......and patients, especially the drug seekers, know this. It is a mess, and it is TRULY a .gov created mess.

The addicts and junkies will find a way and some are actually scary smart. At my wife's practice about 1-2 years ago they had a person come in for a consult , but unbeknownst to them it was a stake out. This person went online and somehow was able to order scrip pads and was filling about 4k of Vicodin and Norco a week. Took about 2-4 weeks before the several dozen pharmacies involved caught on and called my wife's practice. It was a huge deal at the time, but you know what happened? Nothing not a dam thing happened and nobody to my wife's or doc's knowledge were prosecuted

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:14:04 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:

This is not a clear cut issue.

For every person like you, there are several others who are getting Medicaid to buy them so they can sell them to junkies. The doctors can't deny the patients the prescription because they will get bad ratings from the junkies, which severely affects their standing with both private and public insurance. The doctors are in a catch 22.

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Several others soliciting prescriptions just to sell them, for each responsible user? Cite?

So we are saying that something like what? 70-80% of all prescriptions are bullshit? Is that the claim here?

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:14:30 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is very wrong.

Physicians, per .gov regs, have been obligated to regard pain as the fifth viral sign. Putting it on par with blood pressure, heart rate, temperature, et al. This is very new. Physicians have had their reimbursement tied to patient satisfaction scores. Also new. Physicians no longer have the authority to moderate a patients pain meds......and patients, especially the drug seekers, know this. It is a mess, and it is TRULY a .gov created mess.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.

This is very wrong.

Physicians, per .gov regs, have been obligated to regard pain as the fifth viral sign. Putting it on par with blood pressure, heart rate, temperature, et al. This is very new. Physicians have had their reimbursement tied to patient satisfaction scores. Also new. Physicians no longer have the authority to moderate a patients pain meds......and patients, especially the drug seekers, know this. It is a mess, and it is TRULY a .gov created mess.

I do not envy doctors, for the mess the country is in over this.

In many cases they are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t, just like these unfortunate patients are.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:15:41 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
As good as modern medicine is some things just can't be fixed at our current technology levels. He can get a multi level fusion and is going to very likely be in the same level of pain as prior to surgery. Fusions over time destroy the vertebra above and below the fusion site, thus needing more fusions 5,10,15 years down the line. In some cases doing nothing and easing pain is the best option

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Quoted:

Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

This is not a clear cut issue.

For every person like you, there are several others who are getting Medicaid to buy them so they can sell them to junkies. The doctors can’t deny the patients the prescription because they will get bad ratings from the junkies, which severely affects their standing with both private and public insurance. The doctors are in a catch 22.

Long term opioid prescriptions just cover up the problem. You still have 5 crushed vertebrae. No insurance company wants to pay for a real fix for the problem because it’s cheaper to just cover it up with OxyContin.

Drying up the supply of pills just covers up the addition problem. Existing opioid addicts will find opioid come hell or high water, but the new batch of addicts growing up will just find a new drug to get high.

No matter what is done, innocent people are going to get fucked while the cartels rake it in.

As good as modern medicine is some things just can't be fixed at our current technology levels. He can get a multi level fusion and is going to very likely be in the same level of pain as prior to surgery. Fusions over time destroy the vertebra above and below the fusion site, thus needing more fusions 5,10,15 years down the line. In some cases doing nothing and easing pain is the best option

I am in no pain and have no injury

It's interesting that when drugs are discussed anyone in favor of less regulation is assumed to be a user.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:17:39 PM EDT

[#14]

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On one hand I feel like if I break my toe and need a few norco for a week I shouldn't have to ask uncle sugar for permission. On the other I personally know someone who got a bottle of lortabs after wisdom tooth surgery and it literally destroyed his life and family. Full blown heroin addict a few years later.

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ROFL. Then you know a week-willed individual who probably had compulsion issues anyway.

I am calling bullshit on all of these "my buddy had his appendix removed and was sucking dick for heroin 48 hours later" stories.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:17:47 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
As good as modern medicine is some things just can't be fixed at our current technology levels. He can get a multi level fusion and is going to very likely be in the same level of pain as prior to surgery. Fusions over time destroy the vertebrata above and below the fusion site, thus needing more fusions 5,10,15 years down the line. In some cases doing nothing and easing pain is the best option

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

This is not a clear cut issue.

For every person like you, there are several others who are getting Medicaid to buy them so they can sell them to junkies. The doctors can’t deny the patients the prescription because they will get bad ratings from the junkies, which severely affects their standing with both private and public insurance. The doctors are in a catch 22.

Long term opioid prescriptions just cover up the problem. You still have 5 crushed vertebrae. No insurance company wants to pay for a real fix for the problem because it’s cheaper to just cover it up with OxyContin.

Drying up the supply of pills just covers up the addition problem. Existing opioid addicts will find opioid come hell or high water, but the new batch of addicts growing up will just find a new drug to get high.

No matter what is done, innocent people are going to get fucked while the cartels rake it in.

As good as modern medicine is some things just can't be fixed at our current technology levels. He can get a multi level fusion and is going to very likely be in the same level of pain as prior to surgery. Fusions over time destroy the vertebrata above and below the fusion site, thus needing more fusions 5,10,15 years down the line. In some cases doing nothing and easing pain is the best option

How much research is being done on how to fix these sort of back problems?

Nobody is denying that fucking addicts are fucking people over with their BS.

I feel for people like ridgerunner, but look at posters in this thread who think it is appropriate to prescribe opioids for a few broken toes.

Guess what, broken bones are supposed to hurt. That is your body telling you to lay up until the bones knit. Opioids just make you feel better, they don’t solve the bones knitting, and cause reinjuries because it suppressed the bodies way of keeping you from aggravating it.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:18:12 PM EDT

[#16]

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A novel concept, I know. Personal responsibility, liberty, and freedom.

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I would like to know more.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:18:37 PM EDT

[#17]

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This. "Is the FDA at fault" is the kind of mindset that caused me to go to the pharmacy yesterday and not be able to refill a prescription until this morning. Because it's scheduled (not an opiate) and I have 4 pills left.

If I travel toward the end of a bottle, I'll need to secure "special authorization" from my Dr to get a refill a few days early.

Fucking idiocy.

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Quoted:
Get government out of medicine.

This. "Is the FDA at fault" is the kind of mindset that caused me to go to the pharmacy yesterday and not be able to refill a prescription until this morning. Because it's scheduled (not an opiate) and I have 4 pills left.

If I travel toward the end of a bottle, I'll need to secure "special authorization" from my Dr to get a refill a few days early.

Fucking idiocy.

No shit! Big Brother will prevent you from making personal decisions for your own good.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:18:45 PM EDT

[#18]

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The alignment of the political means to disarm a society, and using the power to misrepresent a RX ?

I am trying to really understand, not being a typical GD'er

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Quoted:

No. Its a pretty direct allegory.

The alignment of the political means to disarm a society, and using the power to misrepresent a RX ?

I am trying to really understand, not being a typical GD'er

Massive government over regulation of a substance or inanimate object that is perceived to be dangerous to you or society?

Nope. I don't see a single similarity there. Not one.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:19:47 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Several others soliciting prescriptions just to sell them, for each responsible user? Cite?

So we are saying that something like what? 70-80% of all prescriptions are bullshit? Is that the claim here?

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Quoted:

Quoted:

This is not a clear cut issue.

For every person like you, there are several others who are getting Medicaid to buy them so they can sell them to junkies. The doctors can't deny the patients the prescription because they will get bad ratings from the junkies, which severely affects their standing with both private and public insurance. The doctors are in a catch 22.

Several others soliciting prescriptions just to sell them, for each responsible user? Cite?

So we are saying that something like what? 70-80% of all prescriptions are bullshit? Is that the claim here?

Of long term prescriptions? Yep. It is the Trailor park trash way of stretching SSDI. You would be amazed at the lengths white trash go to be lazy.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:20:23 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
There are not known addictive properties associated with NSAID's, thus they are correctly labeled as non habit forming, but yes, long term use of them certainly leads to plenty of issues and is no better than opioids.

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Quoted:
Keep taking NSAIDs and other OTC long term and see what happens, most people take more then they should also!

But keep parroting what they're telling you.

There are not known addictive properties associated with NSAID's, thus they are correctly labeled as non habit forming, but yes, long term use of them certainly leads to plenty of issues and is no better than opioids.

So long as they're not addicts, who cares if their kidneys and liver are destroyed?

Holy moly

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:20:25 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
I do not envy doctors, for the mess the country is in over this.

In many cases they are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t, just like these unfortunate patients are.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.

This is very wrong.

Physicians, per .gov regs, have been obligated to regard pain as the fifth viral sign. Putting it on par with blood pressure, heart rate, temperature, et al. This is very new. Physicians have had their reimbursement tied to patient satisfaction scores. Also new. Physicians no longer have the authority to moderate a patients pain meds......and patients, especially the drug seekers, know this. It is a mess, and it is TRULY a .gov created mess.

I do not envy doctors, for the mess the country is in over this.

In many cases they are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t, just like these unfortunate patients are.

Either way, the problem is that they are highly addictive and a lot studies explain that there is rarely no long term benefit of using them. The addiction part is an easy fix; change the label.

Prescription opioids fail rigorous new test for chronic pain

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:21:10 PM EDT

[#22]

It’s no different than the heroin epidemic, or meth epidemic, or drunk driving/alcohol epidemic. The only reason it’s at the forefront right now is because it’s the current pet issue of pols.

The gov screws up damn near every single thing it touches, they suck at fixing shit so right now they’re going to “focus” on an issue they hope they’ll be able to point to and say “look, we’re fixing something, ignore all our other screw ups!”. But they’ll screw this up too, it’s inevitable.

And the other poster who was ignored is correct. If the medicine is at fault, then invent or approve something else that actually works for chronic pain. Until then, I’m simply not interested in hearing a bunch of pols try and feather their caps at the expense of folks who live in chronic pain.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:21:14 PM EDT

[#23]

I thought the argument was - opiates work great for short term pain relief, like the first couple days after a surgery, but over a longer term, the patient develops a tolerance.

To provide the same level of relief, the patient has to take ever increasing dosages. Over the longer term, the patients become opiate addicts because they are ingesting relatively large amounts of opiates.

As a result, according to the argument, the trade off here for the long term pain relief is become both an opiate addict and potentially suffer the health consequences of using large quantities of opiates each and every day.

If that is in fact the trade off, then the Doctors need to be telling people that up front, before they begin taking opiates over an extended period.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:21:56 PM EDT

[#24]

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So long as they're not addicts, who cares if their kidneys and liver are destroyed?

Holy moly

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Keep taking NSAIDs and other OTC long term and see what happens, most people take more then they should also!

But keep parroting what they're telling you.

There are not known addictive properties associated with NSAID's, thus they are correctly labeled as non habit forming, but yes, long term use of them certainly leads to plenty of issues and is no better than opioids.

So long as they're not addicts, who cares if their kidneys and liver are destroyed?

Holy moly

What in the world did you read to come up with that statement?

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:22:58 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
The addicts and junkies will find a way and some are actually scary smart. At my wife's practice about 1-2 years ago they had a person come in for a consult , but unbeknownst to them it was a stake out. This person went online and somehow was able to order scrip pads and was filling about 4k of Vicodin and Norco a week. Took about 2-4 weeks before the several dozen pharmacies involved caught on and called my wife's practice. It was a huge deal at the time, but you know what happened? Nothing not a dam thing happened and nobody to my wife's or doc's knowledge were prosecuted

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And we give a flying fuck about what junkies do why?

Junkies will always figure a way. Always have, always will. The rates of addiction to drugs don't change over time, no matter what policies are put into place.

I do have an issue with Grandma having to physically drive to the Dr and get a piece of paper just to attempt to block this imagined boogeyman. Why not fund an online system for verification of script fraud, which would undoubtedly save net resources from the wasted bureaucratic horseshit related to making it more difficult for normal everyday people to fill their fucking prescriptions.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:24:01 PM EDT

[#26]

My older step son is working full time on the class action suit that has the first court date nationally.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:24:13 PM EDT

[#27]

Op I will ask once more, what is the solution? They're isn't one that I'm aware of, so until one is found opiates are the only game in town. I would love to hear real answers from those that are saying pain meds don't work, and only future heroin users take them.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:24:36 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
This. "Is the FDA at fault" is the kind of mindset that caused me to go to the pharmacy yesterday and not be able to refill a prescription until this morning. Because it's scheduled (not an opiate) and I have 4 pills left.

If I travel toward the end of a bottle, I'll need to secure "special authorization" from my Dr to get a refill a few days early.

Fucking idiocy.

View Quote

This. Fucking this.

But add that the pharmacy is across state lines and an hour and a half drive each way. With no way to fill instate.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:27:02 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
Massive government over regulation of a substance or inanimate object that is perceived to be dangerous to you or society?

Nope. I don't see a single similarity there. Not one.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

No. Its a pretty direct allegory.

The alignment of the political means to disarm a society, and using the power to misrepresent a RX ?

I am trying to really understand, not being a typical GD'er

Massive government over regulation of a substance or inanimate object that is perceived to be dangerous to you or society?

Nope. I don't see a single similarity there. Not one.

There was a time that you made a thread where your problem was people filing suit against big pharma over the made up opioid crisis all for the money grab. Now there is a suit where a plaintiff is spending many millions of dollars to go after the root cause, with no financial damages, and its all about liberty and freedom.

If liberty and freedom are the big draws here, I get it. It's your point to make.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:27:35 PM EDT

[#30]

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Quoted:
How much research is being done on how to fix these sort of back problems?

Nobody is denying that fucking addicts are fucking people over with their BS.

I feel for people like ridgerunner, but look at posters in this thread who think it is appropriate to prescribe opioids for a few broken toes.

Guess what, broken bones are supposed to hurt. That is your body telling you to lay up until the bones knit. Opioids just make you feel better, they don’t solve the bones knitting, and cause reinjuries because it suppressed the bodies way of keeping you from aggravating it.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

This is not a clear cut issue.

For every person like you, there are several others who are getting Medicaid to buy them so they can sell them to junkies. The doctors can’t deny the patients the prescription because they will get bad ratings from the junkies, which severely affects their standing with both private and public insurance. The doctors are in a catch 22.

Long term opioid prescriptions just cover up the problem. You still have 5 crushed vertebrae. No insurance company wants to pay for a real fix for the problem because it’s cheaper to just cover it up with OxyContin.

Drying up the supply of pills just covers up the addition problem. Existing opioid addicts will find opioid come hell or high water, but the new batch of addicts growing up will just find a new drug to get high.

No matter what is done, innocent people are going to get fucked while the cartels rake it in.

As good as modern medicine is some things just can't be fixed at our current technology levels. He can get a multi level fusion and is going to very likely be in the same level of pain as prior to surgery. Fusions over time destroy the vertebrata above and below the fusion site, thus needing more fusions 5,10,15 years down the line. In some cases doing nothing and easing pain is the best option

How much research is being done on how to fix these sort of back problems?

Nobody is denying that fucking addicts are fucking people over with their BS.

I feel for people like ridgerunner, but look at posters in this thread who think it is appropriate to prescribe opioids for a few broken toes.

Guess what, broken bones are supposed to hurt. That is your body telling you to lay up until the bones knit. Opioids just make you feel better, they don’t solve the bones knitting, and cause reinjuries because it suppressed the bodies way of keeping you from aggravating it.

I don't know on the research front what is being done. I do know that artificial disc replacement is something that's somewhat new in the back surgeons wheelhouse but it comes with huge risks. I think stem cell therapy and other technological breakthroughs will help in the future. Take degenerative disc disease, I know at one point their was a study and trial done on sheep that actually regened the broken old disc. It was out of Australia, human trials were supposed to go in 16 or 18 but I haven't followed it recently.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:27:57 PM EDT

[#31]

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I thought the argument was - opiates work great for short term pain relief, like the first couple days after a surgery, but over a longer term, the patient develops a tolerance.

To provide the same level of relief, the patient has to take ever increasing dosages. Over the longer term, the patients become opiate addicts because they are ingesting relatively large amounts of opiates.

As a result, according to the argument, the trade off here for the long term pain relief is become both an opiate addict and potentially suffer the health consequences of using large quantities of opiates each and every day.

If that is in fact the trade off, then the Doctors need to be telling people that up front, before they begin taking opiates over an extended period.

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That is still exactly the argument, and dr's aren't required to do that because the labeling approval states that the drug is safe for long term use.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:28:10 PM EDT

[#32]

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ROFL. Then you know a week-willed individual who probably had compulsion issues anyway.

I am calling bullshit on all of these "my buddy had his appendix removed and was sucking dick for heroin 48 hours later" stories.

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On one hand I feel like if I break my toe and need a few norco for a week I shouldn't have to ask uncle sugar for permission. On the other I personally know someone who got a bottle of lortabs after wisdom tooth surgery and it literally destroyed his life and family. Full blown heroin addict a few years later.

ROFL. Then you know a week-willed individual who probably had compulsion issues anyway.

I am calling bullshit on all of these "my buddy had his appendix removed and was sucking dick for heroin 48 hours later" stories.

Dude, IT HAPPENS.

I knew a guy who had to have an impacted wisdom tooth removed.

He was a successful corporate tax attorney.

They gave him a post op script for THREE Norco. Yes, only THREE.

ONE week later...

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:31:59 PM EDT

[#33]

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Massive government over regulation of a substance or inanimate object that is perceived to be dangerous to you or society?

Nope. I don't see a single similarity there. Not one.

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I think I am grossly misreading this thread. Is OP pointing out that the government purposefully mislabeled these drugs? That is how I read it.

So in gist, the .gov is not regulating anything, but pushing its use improperly.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:36:28 PM EDT

[#34]

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That is still exactly the argument, and dr's aren't required to do that because the labeling approval states that the drug is safe for long term use.

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Quoted:
I thought the argument was - opiates work great for short term pain relief, like the first couple days after a surgery, but over a longer term, the patient develops a tolerance.

To provide the same level of relief, the patient has to take ever increasing dosages. Over the longer term, the patients become opiate addicts because they are ingesting relatively large amounts of opiates.

As a result, according to the argument, the trade off here for the long term pain relief is become both an opiate addict and potentially suffer the health consequences of using large quantities of opiates each and every day.

If that is in fact the trade off, then the Doctors need to be telling people that up front, before they begin taking opiates over an extended period.

That is still exactly the argument, and dr's aren't required to do that because the labeling approval states that the drug is safe for long term use.

You can develop a strategy with your doc to prevent this. Say 3 days on 1 or 2 days off, Hell you can probably go 7 days on and 2 days off and stay pretty close to original amounts. yes you will have to deal with pain for those few days but long term it will help in avoiding tolerance issues.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:37:41 PM EDT

[#35]

I think what has happened is the street narcotics has gotten out of hand and the government is over reacting and punishing lawful opiod users.

Its no different then gun laws. Soon you'll hear about "pain management loopholes"

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:39:55 PM EDT

[#36]

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The whole "opioid crisis" is another stupid left-wing manufactured propaganda piece foisted on the ill-informed and dimwitted by the Democrat Party. It's no different than them focusing on firearms instead of the underlying problem (bad people doing bad stuff). The underlying problem [in the "opioid crisis"] is addiction. If you eliminated all opioids today the addicts would just transition to something else (more than likely meth, cocaine, alcohol, etc.). People need to stop being so gullible and focusing on the inanimate "thing" and instead focus on the underlying behavior.

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This.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:44:54 PM EDT

[#37]

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Quoted:
I think I am grossly misreading this thread. Is OP pointing out that the government purposefully mislabeled these drugs? That is how I read it.

So in gist, the .gov is not regulating anything, but pushing its use improperly.

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Quoted:

Massive government over regulation of a substance or inanimate object that is perceived to be dangerous to you or society?

Nope. I don't see a single similarity there. Not one.

I think I am grossly misreading this thread. Is OP pointing out that the government purposefully mislabeled these drugs? That is how I read it.

So in gist, the .gov is not regulating anything, but pushing its use improperly.

Yes, big pharma paid big money to influence a labeling change (bride, pay to play, however you want to describe it) in order to sell more highly addictive drugs, and the FDA was complicit in doing so.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:47:12 PM EDT

[#38]

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Yes, big pharma paid big money to influence a labeling change (bride, pay to play, however you want to describe it) in order to sell more drugs, and the FDA was complicit in doing so.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Massive government over regulation of a substance or inanimate object that is perceived to be dangerous to you or society?

Nope. I don't see a single similarity there. Not one.

I think I am grossly misreading this thread. Is OP pointing out that the government purposefully mislabeled these drugs? That is how I read it.

So in gist, the .gov is not regulating anything, but pushing its use improperly.

Yes, big pharma paid big money to influence a labeling change (bride, pay to play, however you want to describe it) in order to sell more drugs, and the FDA was complicit in doing so.

Kind of like how they are giving out fentanyl, when its an end-of-life drug.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:50:22 PM EDT

[#39]

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I am in no pain and have no injury

It's interesting that when drugs are discussed anyone in favor of less regulation is assumed to be a user.

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So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

This is not a clear cut issue.

For every person like you, there are several others who are getting Medicaid to buy them so they can sell them to junkies. The doctors can’t deny the patients the prescription because they will get bad ratings from the junkies, which severely affects their standing with both private and public insurance. The doctors are in a catch 22.

Long term opioid prescriptions just cover up the problem. You still have 5 crushed vertebrae. No insurance company wants to pay for a real fix for the problem because it’s cheaper to just cover it up with OxyContin.

Drying up the supply of pills just covers up the addition problem. Existing opioid addicts will find opioid come hell or high water, but the new batch of addicts growing up will just find a new drug to get high.

No matter what is done, innocent people are going to get fucked while the cartels rake it in.

As good as modern medicine is some things just can't be fixed at our current technology levels. He can get a multi level fusion and is going to very likely be in the same level of pain as prior to surgery. Fusions over time destroy the vertebra above and below the fusion site, thus needing more fusions 5,10,15 years down the line. In some cases doing nothing and easing pain is the best option

I am in no pain and have no injury

It's interesting that when drugs are discussed anyone in favor of less regulation is assumed to be a user.

It's easier to assume and requires no introspection. If they assume that you are a user, they can just dismiss what you say and keep thinking about all of this the wrong way.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:52:49 PM EDT

[#40]

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Yes, big pharma paid big money to influence a labeling change (bride, pay to play, however you want to describe it) in order to sell more drugs, and the FDA was complicit in doing so.

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OK, so it is the government intent to push the use, not regulate it. (in the beginning) So now regulate it, and who profits off of that?

The .gov is not handing out more assurances to protect 2A freedoms, or positively "labeling gun owners"/ so I see no allegory. If the .gov is understood by so many here in the past and present putting drugs in play to suppress a group, what are we waiting for?

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:55:01 PM EDT

[#41]

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ROFL. Then you know a week-willed individual who probably had compulsion issues anyway.

I am calling bullshit on all of these "my buddy had his appendix removed and was sucking dick for heroin 48 hours later" stories.

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Fentanyl was one of the drugs they gave me when my appendix ruptured and I was wishing I was dead. Still not a junkie.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:56:49 PM EDT

[#42]

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There are a handful of people in this thread talking about personally needing their pain meds every day. Ever hear of the term functioning alcoholic?

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lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.

Dr's prescribe them based on the labeling though, so as noted with posters above, they are told, "keep shoveling these pills in your mouth".

What else should they tell them? The "opioid crisis" has little to do with chronic pain sufferers who are taking a medically prescribed treatment and much more to do with people who chose to illicitly inject street drugs like heroin and fentanyl which are being imported into the country by the container load. The vast majority of addicts nodding off in the street are not medically diagnosed with a chronic pain condition.

There are a handful of people in this thread talking about personally needing their pain meds every day. Ever hear of the term functioning alcoholic?

Um, needing pain meds every day might be because they are junkies, or maybe they have severe chronic pain and the pain meds are what allows them to function.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:57:48 PM EDT

[#43]

I love how it's big pharma's fault that junkies are on the streets snorting pills or graduating to injecting heroin.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:58:56 PM EDT

[#44]

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This. "Is the FDA at fault" is the kind of mindset that caused me to go to the pharmacy yesterday and not be able to refill a prescription until this morning. Because it's scheduled (not an opiate) and I have 4 pills left.

If I travel toward the end of a bottle, I'll need to secure "special authorization" from my Dr to get a refill a few days early.

Fucking idiocy.

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Things like this expose exactly "how free" Americans aren't . The government has no business dictating what kind of treatments or options are available to consenting adults. Corrupt politicians or bureaucrats in DC aren't better equipped to make decisions than a patient's physician, pharmacist or the patient themselves. We live in a world where even your life isn't your own, people go to jail for using things which grow out of the ground and the government dictates what, how much and if any of a treatment is permitted to patients. All while proven medical treatments and cures await approval by the FDA and people die of curable illnesses and diseases.

Posted: 2/25/2019 3:59:21 PM EDT

[#45]

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This.

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Quoted:
The whole "opioid crisis" is another stupid left-wing manufactured propaganda piece foisted on the ill-informed and dimwitted by the Democrat Party. It's no different than them focusing on firearms instead of the underlying problem (bad people doing bad stuff). The underlying problem [in the "opioid crisis"] is addiction. If you eliminated all opioids today the addicts would just transition to something else (more than likely meth, cocaine, alcohol, etc.). People need to stop being so gullible and focusing on the inanimate "thing" and instead focus on the underlying behavior.

This.

No. I don't think you all are following this, at all.

The frequent long term use of opiates to manage pain is creating addicts. Creating addicts. Taking people that were not addicted to opiates, and via long term use, they become addicted.

Its basically nothing like firearms. Its not bad people doing bad stuff. Its people in pain, following their doctor's orders, and in a few months, becoming addicted to opiates.

My mother in law was addicted to opiates at the end of her life. She was taking a huge amount of Oxy to get thru the day. She was not a bad person. Just an old women with major health/back issues.

She died in her mid-80's, after numerous issues associated with long term opiate use. But, the strategy for her was palliative care. Addiction was part of the trade off for her quality of life for the last two or three years.

This same thing is happening to young people. People in their 20's and 30's. Now facing a lifetime of opiate addiction.

Posted: 2/25/2019 4:01:46 PM EDT

[#46]

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I love how it's big pharma's fault that junkies are on the streets snorting pills or graduating to injecting heroin.

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They are 2 separate issues. Do you really not know anyone that needs their pain meds to operate every single day?

Yes, some of these people do suffer from chronic pain and the meds help them. And there are a whole lot more who have become dependent on them for no other reason than it being a highly addictive long term prescription.

Posted: 2/25/2019 4:02:32 PM EDT

[#47]

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Um, needing pain meds every day might be because they are junkies, or maybe they have severe chronic pain and the pain meds are what allows them to function.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.

Dr's prescribe them based on the labeling though, so as noted with posters above, they are told, "keep shoveling these pills in your mouth".

What else should they tell them? The "opioid crisis" has little to do with chronic pain sufferers who are taking a medically prescribed treatment and much more to do with people who chose to illicitly inject street drugs like heroin and fentanyl which are being imported into the country by the container load. The vast majority of addicts nodding off in the street are not medically diagnosed with a chronic pain condition.

There are a handful of people in this thread talking about personally needing their pain meds every day. Ever hear of the term functioning alcoholic?

Um, needing pain meds every day might be because they are junkies, or maybe they have severe chronic pain and the pain meds are what allows them to function.

And I repeat myself, ever hear of the term functioning alcoholic? Check out the studies in relation to the effectiveness of long term usage of opioids.

Posted: 2/25/2019 4:02:58 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
No. I don't think you all are following this, at all.

The frequent long term use of opiates to manage pain is creating addicts. Creating addicts. Taking people that were not addicted to opiates, and via long term use, they become addicted.

Its basically nothing like firearms. Its not bad people doing bad stuff. Its people in pain, following their doctor's orders, and in a few months, becoming addicted to opiates.

My mother in law was addicted to opiates at the end of her life. She was taking a huge amount of Oxy to get thru the day. She was not a bad person. Just an old women with major health/back issues.

She died in her mid-80's, after numerous issues associated with long term opiate use. But, the strategy for her was palliative care. Addiction was part of the trade off for her quality of life for the last two or three years.

This same thing is happening to young people. People in their 20's and 30's. Now facing a lifetime of opiate addiction.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
The whole "opioid crisis" is another stupid left-wing manufactured propaganda piece foisted on the ill-informed and dimwitted by the Democrat Party. It's no different than them focusing on firearms instead of the underlying problem (bad people doing bad stuff). The underlying problem [in the "opioid crisis"] is addiction. If you eliminated all opioids today the addicts would just transition to something else (more than likely meth, cocaine, alcohol, etc.). People need to stop being so gullible and focusing on the inanimate "thing" and instead focus on the underlying behavior.

This.

No. I don't think you all are following this, at all.

The frequent long term use of opiates to manage pain is creating addicts. Creating addicts. Taking people that were not addicted to opiates, and via long term use, they become addicted.

Its basically nothing like firearms. Its not bad people doing bad stuff. Its people in pain, following their doctor's orders, and in a few months, becoming addicted to opiates.

My mother in law was addicted to opiates at the end of her life. She was taking a huge amount of Oxy to get thru the day. She was not a bad person. Just an old women with major health/back issues.

She died in her mid-80's, after numerous issues associated with long term opiate use. But, the strategy for her was palliative care. Addiction was part of the trade off for her quality of life for the last two or three years.

This same thing is happening to young people. People in their 20's and 30's. Now facing a lifetime of opiate addiction.

There aren't millions of 20-30 year-olds in chronic pain being turned into addicts by being given opiates. You can't possibly think that's true. Any asshole can go to some pain management clinic and get a script so they can get high or sell the pills to make money.

Posted: 2/25/2019 4:03:02 PM EDT

[#49]

I had thought that .gov cutting back on pain meds *created* the opioid crisis....

Posted: 2/25/2019 4:07:24 PM EDT

[#50]

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They are 2 separate issues.

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I love how it's big pharma's fault that junkies are on the streets snorting pills or graduating to injecting heroin.

They are 2 separate issues.

Everyone knows opiates are addictive. If you have chronic pain you have a few choices: suck it up and don't take anything for it, get it fixed surgically if that's possible, or take the prescription pain meds knowing full well you may become addicted with extended use.

I guarantee the vast majority of addicts didn't come from legitimate medical use channels. It's a tiny piece of the pie and there are other medications (not opiates) that get prescribed for a myriad of things that can be addictive, it's just something that needs to be discussed between you and your doctor.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FDA And the Opioid Crisis (Page 3 of 6)

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