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Lol, have you ever been in a lawsuit? Do you feel the filings were accurate? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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I typically like to talk to people with medical licenses when I want to know about medicine. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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There aren't millions of 20-30 year-olds in chronic pain being turned into addicts by being given opiates. You can't possibly think that's true. Any asshole can go to some pain management clinic and get a script so they can get high or sell the pills to make money. View Quote But, that said, what if the number is 100K per year in the 20 to 30 age range? Is that acceptable? How about 50K per year? What is the acceptable number, assuming the patients are not being told up front that they are likely or very likely to become addicted to opiates if they use them for long term pain management? |
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The whole "opioid crisis" is another stupid left-wing manufactured propaganda piece foisted on the ill-informed and dimwitted by the Democrat Party. It's no different than them focusing on firearms instead of the underlying problem (bad people doing bad stuff). The underlying problem [in the "opioid crisis"] is addiction. If you eliminated all opioids today the addicts would just transition to something else (more than likely meth, cocaine, alcohol, etc.). People need to stop being so gullible and focusing on the inanimate "thing" and instead focus on the underlying behavior. View Quote |
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Yes, big pharma paid big money to influence a labeling change (bride, pay to play, however you want to describe it) in order to sell more highly addictive drugs, and the FDA was complicit in doing so. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Massive government over regulation of a substance or inanimate object that is perceived to be dangerous to you or society? Nope. I don't see a single similarity there. Not one. So in gist, the .gov is not regulating anything, but pushing its use improperly. All of that is beside the point that there is nothing else that works, in the end, for a lot of chronic pain sufferers. And for the government to play keep away in the name of righteousness at the expense of those who need it, is obscene. Wait until they start really turning the screws on price fixing like they did with epi pens. How many people will be up in arms when "big pharma" takes their ball and goes home, so to speak. Why innovate if there's not going to be big profit on that big gamble? |
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ROFL. Then you know a week-willed individual who probably had compulsion issues anyway. I am calling bullshit on all of these "my buddy had his appendix removed and was sucking dick for heroin 48 hours later" stories. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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On one hand I feel like if I break my toe and need a few norco for a week I shouldn't have to ask uncle sugar for permission. On the other I personally know someone who got a bottle of lortabs after wisdom tooth surgery and it literally destroyed his life and family. Full blown heroin addict a few years later. I am calling bullshit on all of these "my buddy had his appendix removed and was sucking dick for heroin 48 hours later" stories. And Norco for a broken toe??? Lol, you don't know pain if you think your pain is bad enough to warrant "Norco" but you still have a "on the other hand..." statement. I assure you that in the scheme of injuries/conditions warranting pain meds, yours is LOW on the spectrum. On the other hand (jk), I still support your right to having pain relief. |
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Kind of like how they are giving out fentanyl, when its an end-of-life drug. View Quote I had two back surgeries in 2013 and six months later in 2014. I started taking Hydrocodone, and Oxycodone in late 2012 after my L4-L5 blew out. I tried to do rehab, and physical therapy, and ended up opting for the L4-L5 fusion. The second surgery was basically an emergency microdiscectomy because the L5-S1 blew out and I couldn't walk. I had lots of Oxys and Dilaudid in the hospital. I took bucketloads of Oxys until about Feb 2015. The doc tapered me off, and I haven't had any since then. I fear for the next time I blow a disc. (Once you've had a fusion, it's like a cumulative 5% chance per year of another herniated disk above or below the fusion. ) The next time, without the pain meds... I fear it. |
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I've never suggested there are millions of 20-30 year olds that have been turned into addicts. But, that said, what if the number is 100K per year in the 20 to 30 age range? Is that acceptable? How about 50K per year? What is the acceptable number, assuming the patients are not being told up front that they are likely or very likely to become addicted to opiates if they use them for long term pain management? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There aren't millions of 20-30 year-olds in chronic pain being turned into addicts by being given opiates. You can't possibly think that's true. Any asshole can go to some pain management clinic and get a script so they can get high or sell the pills to make money. But, that said, what if the number is 100K per year in the 20 to 30 age range? Is that acceptable? How about 50K per year? What is the acceptable number, assuming the patients are not being told up front that they are likely or very likely to become addicted to opiates if they use them for long term pain management? |
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I've never suggested there are millions of 20-30 year olds that have been turned into addicts. But, that said, what if the number is 100K per year in the 20 to 30 age range? Is that acceptable? How about 50K per year? What is the acceptable number, assuming the patients are not being told up front that they are likely or very likely to become addicted to opiates if they use them for long term pain management? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There aren't millions of 20-30 year-olds in chronic pain being turned into addicts by being given opiates. You can't possibly think that's true. Any asshole can go to some pain management clinic and get a script so they can get high or sell the pills to make money. But, that said, what if the number is 100K per year in the 20 to 30 age range? Is that acceptable? How about 50K per year? What is the acceptable number, assuming the patients are not being told up front that they are likely or very likely to become addicted to opiates if they use them for long term pain management? |
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There's so much derp in this thread.
Some folks need pain meds, and bottom line the government and everyone else needs to stay the hell out of everyone's lives. Why does anyone think they can regulate what others do? We're supposed to be a free nation, and if someone wants to ruin they're life I don't give a crap, actions have something something. |
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lol The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
lol The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices. There have been all sorts of shenanigans with opiod dosing/prescribing parameters at the regulatory level - see the articles below... I'm in the medical field and have seen this scenario play out with patients and with family members. I got to watch this up close and personal with my dad for the last several years of his life. The 12-hour Oxycontin would last maybe 4-5 hours for him and the bone-on-bone pain in his hip.. he had to tough it out until his next dose was due several hours later. The docs said they couldn't change the frequency, only increase the dose... which would leave my dad drugged up and out of it for a few hours (and at risk for falls - which he did end up doing) until it wore off way to early and he was back 8 out of 10 on the pain scale and waiting 4-5 hours for his next dose.. https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-oxycontin-full-coverage/ OxyContin’s main selling point is that it lasts 12 hours. The Times investigation published this month found that when the effects don’t last, patients can suffer symptoms of narcotic withdrawal, including intense craving for the drug, and experience a cycle of agony and relief that experts say promotes addiction.
The newspaper found that Purdue had evidence of the problem for more than two decades, but continued to insist the drug lasted 12 hours, in part, to protect its revenue. OxyContin’s market dominance and premium price hinge on its 12-hour duration. Purdue instructed doctors who complained about the drug’s duration to prescribe stronger, but not more frequent, doses. Research shows that patients taking high doses of opioids are at greater risk of an overdose and death... |
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Opioid crisis is fake news and a crock of shit.
When my little 80 year old mother in law is in such pain she can’t sleep, but she can’t get a prescription for a painkiller that actually takes the edge off, it’s a bad situation. Once again the government makes a problem and then swoops in to punish us for it. |
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So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take? Just tough it out with some ibuprofen? "Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves". View Quote |
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There's so much derp in this thread. Some folks need pain meds, and bottom line the government and everyone else needs to stay the hell out of everyone's lives. Why does anyone think they can regulate what others do? We're supposed to be a free nation, and if someone wants to ruin they're life I don't give a crap, actions have something something. View Quote |
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An utter crock of shit.
"Opiod Crisis" my ass! Its truly pathetic what the DEA and .gov have now done to people with legitimate pain issues. Just flat pathetic. |
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2622774/
I'm sure most will TL;DR this one, but it's worth a read including some of the sources... Much more @ the link. CONTROLLED DRUGS, WITH their potential for abuse and diversion, can pose public health risks that are different from—and more problematic than—those of uncontrolled drugs when they are overpromoted and highly prescribed. An in-depth analysis of the promotion and marketing of OxyContin (Purdue Pharma, Stamford, CT), a sustained-release oxycodone preparation, illustrates some of the key issues. When Purdue Pharma introduced OxyContin in 1996, it was aggressively marketed and highly promoted. Sales grew from $48 million in 1996 to almost $1.1 billion in 2000.1 The high availability of OxyContin correlated with increased abuse, diversion, and addiction, and by 2004 OxyContin had become a leading drug of abuse in the United States.2
Under current regulations, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is limited in its oversight of the marketing and promotion of controlled drugs. However, fundamental changes in the promotion and marketing of controlled drugs by the pharmaceutical industry, and an enhanced capacity of the FDA to regulate and monitor such promotion, can positively affect public health. OxyContin's commercial success did not depend on the merits of the drug compared with other available opioid preparations. The Medical Letter on Drugs and Therapeutics concluded in 2001 that oxycodone offered no advantage over appropriate doses of other potent opioids.3 Randomized double-blind studies comparing OxyContin given every 12 hours with immediate-release oxycodone given 4 times daily showed comparable efficacy and safety for use with chronic back pain4 and cancer-related pain.5,6 Randomized double-blind studies that compared OxyContin with controlled-release morphine for cancer-related pain also found comparable efficacy and safety.7–9 The FDA's medical review officer, in evaluating the efficacy of OxyContin in Purdue's 1995 new drug application, concluded that OxyContin had not been shown to have a significant advantage over conventional, immediate-release oxycodone taken 4 times daily other than a reduction in frequency of dosing.10 In a review of the medical literature, Chou et al. made similar conclusions.11 The promotion and marketing of OxyContin occurred during a recent trend in the liberalization of the use of opioids in the treatment of pain, particularly for chronic non–cancer-related pain. Purdue pursued an “aggressive” campaign to promote the use of opioids in general and OxyContin in particular.1,12–17 In 2001 alone, the company spent $200 million18 in an array of approaches to market and promote OxyContin. Go to: PROMOTION OF OXYCONTIN From 1996 to 2001, Purdue conducted more than 40 national pain-management and speaker-training conferences at resorts in Florida, Arizona, and California. More than 5000 physicians, pharmacists, and nurses attended these all-expenses-paid symposia, where they were recruited and trained for Purdue's national speaker bureau.19(p22) It is well documented that this type of pharmaceutical company symposium influences physicians’ prescribing, even though the physicians who attend such symposia believe that such enticements do not alter their prescribing patterns.20 One of the cornerstones of Purdue's marketing plan was the use of sophisticated marketing data to influence physicians’ prescribing. Drug companies compile prescriber profiles on individual physicians—detailing the prescribing patterns of physicians nationwide—in an effort to influence doctors’ prescribing habits. Through these profiles, a drug company can identify the highest and lowest prescribers of particular drugs in a single zip code, county, state, or the entire country.21 One of the critical foundations of Purdue's marketing plan for OxyContin was to target the physicians who were the highest prescribers for opioids across the country.1,12–17,22 The resulting database would help identify physicians with large numbers of chronic-pain patients. Unfortunately, this same database would also identify which physicians were simply the most frequent prescribers of opioids and, in some cases, the least discriminate prescribers. A lucrative bonus system encouraged sales representatives to increase sales of OxyContin in their territories, resulting in a large number of visits to physicians with high rates of opioid prescriptions, as well as a multifaceted information campaign aimed at them. In 2001, in addition to the average sales representative's annual salary of $55 000, annual bonuses averaged $71 500, with a range of $15 000 to nearly $240 000. Purdue paid $40 million in sales incentive bonuses to its sales representatives that year.19 From 1996 to 2000, Purdue increased its internal sales force from 318 sales representatives to 671, and its total physician call list from approximately 33 400 to 44 500 to approximately 70 500 to 94 000 physicians.19 Through the sales representatives, Purdue used a patient starter coupon program for OxyContin that provided patients with a free limited-time prescription for a 7- to 30-day supply. By 2001, when the program was ended, approximately 34 000 coupons had been redeemed nationally.19 The distribution to health care professionals of branded promotional items such as OxyContin fishing hats, stuffed plush toys, and music compact discs (“Get in the Swing With OxyContin”) was unprecedented for a schedule II opioid, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration.19 Purdue promoted among primary care physicians a more liberal use of opioids, particularly sustained-release opioids. Primary care physicians began to use more of the increasingly popular OxyContin; by 2003, nearly half of all physicians prescribing OxyContin were primary care physicians.19 Some experts were concerned that primary care physicians were not sufficiently trained in pain management or addiction issues.23 Primary care physicians, particularly in a managed care environment of time constraints, also had the least amount of time for evaluation and follow-up of patients with complicated chronic pain. Purdue “aggressively” promoted the use of opioids for use in the “non-malignant pain market.” View Quote |
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The whole "opioid crisis" is another stupid left-wing manufactured propaganda piece foisted on the ill-informed and dimwitted by the Democrat Party. It's no different than them focusing on firearms instead of the underlying problem (bad people doing bad stuff). The underlying problem [in the "opioid crisis"] is addiction. If you eliminated all opioids today the addicts would just transition to something else (more than likely meth, cocaine, alcohol, etc.). People need to stop being so gullible and focusing on the inanimate "thing" and instead focus on the underlying behavior. View Quote The opium crisis in China wasn’t due to social problems, it was due to a chemical agent that inexorably fucks with peoples’ minds being introduced in large quantities as a weapon. That introduction was allowed because of a social problem, but spiraled into something new from there. The only solution they found was attacking supplier & demander simultaneously, ruthlessly putting to death anyone associated with opium. |
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Quoted: The government put themselves in to our lives via pay off from pharma in this case, and gave the blessing that a drug is safe for long term use when it is not safe for long term use. View Quote |
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We all know that taking NSAIDs long term is bad for you but take them anyway because drugs are bad M'kay. View Quote |
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As with abortion in the case of rape or danger to the mother, we all know damn well that’s not the case for all but a tiny fraction of long term prescribed opioid users. How much less than agonizing do you think they should be prescribed for (and also keep in mind that withdrawal will temporarily make felt pain worse)? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take? Just tough it out with some ibuprofen? "Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves". I do hope you remember this post, if and when you are balled up and writhing in pain possibly toward the end of your time on this Earth and the doc says, "We're going to get you some pain management folks in here to help you talk through your discomfort". How much less than agonizing? If someone has a fucking hangnail they don't want to feel, they should be able to go to Walmart and buy morphine OTC. |
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Thats interesting.....
My doctor just changed my NSAID because of the fear of "liver and kidney toxicity"......for the third time. |
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The government put themselves in to our lives via pay off from pharma in this case, and gave the blessing that a drug is safe for long term use when it is not safe for long term use. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There's so much derp in this thread. Some folks need pain meds, and bottom line the government and everyone else needs to stay the hell out of everyone's lives. Why does anyone think they can regulate what others do? We're supposed to be a free nation, and if someone wants to ruin they're life I don't give a crap, actions have something something. Clean morphine can be ingested in perpetuity without damaging the body. Driving is "not safe". Should that be regulated, too? |
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The deal with oxycontin, which was genuine, was that it makes abuse more difficult. It is a time-release oxycodone tablet made in such a way that it can't (at least not easily) be chewed, dissolved, ground up, et c. Doing those things releases the full dose immediately, which gives the buzz that abusers are after. View Quote |
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Define "not safe". Clean morphine can be ingested in perpetuity without damaging the body. Driving is "not safe". Should that be regulated, too? View Quote ...That's the rationale behind gun control. Seems like the same rationale for dealing with junkies. Deny treatment to legitimate patients. It is quite literally obscene. |
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These types of threads reveal who has actually been in REAL PAIN........and who hasn't.
And also who has watched their love ones in REAL PAIN suffer. Who has a theoretical understanding and who has real life experiences. The abusers will still be abusing and the legitimate people who need pain meds get royally f#cked over. |
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The deal was also it was being given away in massive quantities for everything “because it’s non-addicting” all over the country until fairly recently. Turns out many folks (obviously) got enough of a taste for opioids from oxy that the reduced addictive quality was overwhelmed by the ease of access, and when it was denied were compelled to seek other compounds. View Quote No one. Ever. |
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The deal was also it was being given away in massive quantities for everything “because it’s non-addicting” all over the country until fairly recently. Turns out many folks (obviously) got enough of a taste for opioids from oxy that the reduced addictive quality was overwhelmed by the ease of access, and when it was denied were compelled to seek other compounds. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The deal with oxycontin, which was genuine, was that it makes abuse more difficult. It is a time-release oxycodone tablet made in such a way that it can't (at least not easily) be chewed, dissolved, ground up, et c. Doing those things releases the full dose immediately, which gives the buzz that abusers are after. |
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Your point? Better to have them off themselves sooner because the pain is unbearable? Here's an idea. People take what they want to take or what their doctor (who should not have to worry about the government playing nanny) advises them to take. Everyone can make believe they're an adult and do what they want with their own body and not worry about what some other adult does with their own body. A novel concept, I know. Personal responsibility, liberty, and freedom. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: See post below; I know from previous threads here in GD that there are shit ton of GD members that consume massive amounts of pain meds, and there have even been a couple suicide threads that involved members in extreme pain who were still taking opioids. Better to have them off themselves sooner because the pain is unbearable? Here's an idea. People take what they want to take or what their doctor (who should not have to worry about the government playing nanny) advises them to take. Everyone can make believe they're an adult and do what they want with their own body and not worry about what some other adult does with their own body. A novel concept, I know. Personal responsibility, liberty, and freedom. What an idiotic question. BTW, you’re making an argument for assisted suicide (ie prescribe a one time massive dose of junk). Not sure if you realize. |
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Quoted: Not a single person in the last decade has gotten an opiate script and NOT told about the risks and side effects with addiction being the very first thing talked about. Hell even the pharmacy handout the number one risk is addiction. Nobody in today's world doesn't know the risks of opiates use. View Quote The devil is in the details here. It is rare if you follow the relatively strict guidelines and your opiates are properly managed. With mis-use, the likelihood of addiction goes up. And, one comment by the doctor trumps three paragraphs in the literature/handouts. Especially when you are dealing with an addictive substance. For reference purposes, in 2012, the Nat. Inst. of Health estimated there are between 6 and 8 million people in the US using opiates for long term control of chronic non-cancer based pain. |
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Everyone wants to blame big pharma for their problems as big pharma is viewed as having deep pockets. Start suing the FDA if you feel this strongly about it.
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Quoted: It CAN be chewed, crushed, dissolved, and ground up. The testing to reach that conclusion has been proven to be flawed. View Quote |
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There are a handful of people in this thread talking about personally needing their pain meds every day. Ever hear of the term functioning alcoholic? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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lol The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices. |
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Quoted: If they’re gonna kill themselves regardless, yeah, do it before they are driving a large truck at speed or robbing/killing for drug money & funding a multi billion dollar invasion at the southern border in the process. What an idiotic question. BTW, you’re making an argument for assisted suicide (ie prescribe a one time massive dose of junk). Not sure if you realize. View Quote LOL. |
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It has dawned on me that I could help some of the non believers in pain management to have a different perspective.
I have simple ways to show you pain that you would do absolutely anything to make it stop. |
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Geez, I think someone in this thread might be an obvious shill for big pharma.
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LOL at the muh pain pills people losing their shit at the thought of losing their connect.
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No, that's the basic point. Some/many patients are still being told, to this very day, that long term use of opiates presents a low risk of addiction. Addiction is described as being "rare" with long term use. The devil is in the details here. It is rare if you follow the relatively strict guidelines and your opiates are properly managed. With mis-use, the likelihood of addiction goes up. And, one comment by the doctor trumps three paragraphs in the literature/handouts. Especially when you are dealing with an addictive substance. For reference purposes, in 2012, the Nat. Inst. of Health estimated there are between 6 and 8 million people in the US using opiates for long term control of chronic non-cancer based pain. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Not a single person in the last decade has gotten an opiate script and NOT told about the risks and side effects with addiction being the very first thing talked about. Hell even the pharmacy handout the number one risk is addiction. Nobody in today's world doesn't know the risks of opiates use. The devil is in the details here. It is rare if you follow the relatively strict guidelines and your opiates are properly managed. With mis-use, the likelihood of addiction goes up. And, one comment by the doctor trumps three paragraphs in the literature/handouts. Especially when you are dealing with an addictive substance. For reference purposes, in 2012, the Nat. Inst. of Health estimated there are between 6 and 8 million people in the US using opiates for long term control of chronic non-cancer based pain. Chemically defendant they will withdrawl and go about life and try to figure out a way to manage their pain, they are looking fr pain relief not a high or euphoria. An addict will do anything under the sun to not enter withdrawl stage, they are not looking for pain relief but instead looking for the high or Euphoria which is why they are in constant need of higher , stronger and more drugs. |
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This is idiotic, the scale of the opioid issue is very real. There are suddenly so many more addicts, View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The whole "opioid crisis" is another stupid left-wing manufactured propaganda piece foisted on the ill-informed and dimwitted by the Democrat Party. It's no different than them focusing on firearms instead of the underlying problem (bad people doing bad stuff). The underlying problem [in the "opioid crisis"] is addiction. If you eliminated all opioids today the addicts would just transition to something else (more than likely meth, cocaine, alcohol, etc.). People need to stop being so gullible and focusing on the inanimate "thing" and instead focus on the underlying behavior. Source Quoted:
largely because it's such addicting stuff compared to what losers typically got high on (shocker) and because our country is being doused with it like an insecticide along both legitimate and illegal channels to reach as much of society as possible. Quoted:
We had a similar issue with heroin in years past, and it basically died out with its users under heavy cultural and law enforcement opposition (and disruption of overseas suppliers) |
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So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take? Just tough it out with some ibuprofen? "Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves". View Quote |
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These types of threads reveal who has actually been in REAL PAIN........and who hasn't. And also who has watched their love ones in REAL PAIN suffer. Who has a theoretical understanding and who has real life experiences. The abusers will still be abusing and the legitimate people who need pain meds get royally f#cked over. View Quote |
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Quoted: Or make legit street addicts out of them. Every person and I do mean every person I know that had opiate scrips have been cut cold turkey. We are talking about people with some real pain issues and OTC and Phys Rehab ain't going to help. My wife had a post op patient in her office in tears because they refused to refill a script and cut her cold turkey from Percocet and she had been in withdrawals from opiates for 4 days before her office and the pharmacy got squared away. View Quote |
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It has dawned on me that I could help some of the non believers in pain management to have a different perspective. I have simple ways to show you pain that you would do absolutely anything to make it stop. View Quote You know how "admitting you have a problem" is the first step in addiction management? It's because a shitload of addicts are in denial. The pain becomes a means of justifying the addiction, even when the body reacts more violently to withdrawal than to the existing condition. I'd have no problem letting people zonk-out on their Soma of choice if they prefer being stoned to reality, but it becomes my business when they crash cars, crime, expose kids to the stuff, attract pushers, and fund a foreign government's destructive ambitions on my nation's soil. |
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LOL at the muh pain pills people losing their shit at the thought of losing their connect. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/85104/E664924E-A0A1-45F3-85F0-9C4DA6E691D2_png-857978.JPG View Quote |
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