Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Page / 6
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:10:22 PM EST
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

It's a federal lawsuit with extremely clear cut documentation, as well as the former head of the FDA stating exactly what happened and that it should not have happened.
View Quote
Lol, have you ever been in a lawsuit?  Do you feel the filings were accurate?
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:11:08 PM EST
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lol, have you ever been in a lawsuit?  Do you feel the filings were accurate?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

It's a federal lawsuit with extremely clear cut documentation, as well as the former head of the FDA stating exactly what happened and that it should not have happened.
Lol, have you ever been in a lawsuit?  Do you feel the filings were accurate?
Yes and yes.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:11:21 PM EST
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Because 60 minutes is my go-to for the straight scoop.
View Quote
I typically like to talk to people with medical licenses when I want to know about medicine.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:11:34 PM EST
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

NEVER have I stated that "NO ONE" should ever need opioids.  That's absolutely false and I am in complete disagreement as I have personally used them for short term.
View Quote
Then I misspoke. I should have said that you believe NO ONE needs them for long-term pain.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:13:08 PM EST
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Fentanyl was one of the drugs they gave me when my appendix ruptured and I was wishing I was dead. Still not a junkie.
View Quote
Imagine that.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:13:42 PM EST
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I typically like to talk to people with medical licenses when I want to know about medicine.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because 60 minutes is my go-to for the straight scoop.
I typically like to talk to people with medical licenses when I want to know about medicine.
If you watched the 60 minutes segment, there are people with medical licenses.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:14:57 PM EST
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There aren't millions of 20-30 year-olds in chronic pain being turned into addicts by being given opiates. You can't possibly think that's true. Any asshole can go to some pain management clinic and get a script so they can get high or sell the pills to make money.
View Quote
I've never suggested there are millions of 20-30 year olds that have been turned into addicts.

But, that said, what if the number is 100K per year in the 20 to 30 age range?  Is that acceptable?  How about 50K per year?

What is the acceptable number, assuming the patients are not being told up front that they are likely or very likely to become addicted to opiates if they use them for long term pain management?
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:17:14 PM EST
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The whole "opioid crisis" is another stupid left-wing manufactured propaganda piece foisted on the ill-informed and dimwitted by the Democrat Party. It's no different than them focusing on firearms instead of the underlying problem (bad people doing bad stuff). The underlying problem [in the "opioid crisis"] is addiction. If you eliminated all opioids today the addicts would just transition to something else (more than likely meth, cocaine, alcohol, etc.). People need to stop being so gullible and focusing on the inanimate "thing" and instead focus on the underlying behavior.
View Quote
This whole thing.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:17:27 PM EST
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yes, big pharma paid big money to influence a labeling change (bride, pay to play, however you want to describe it) in order to sell more highly addictive drugs, and the FDA was complicit in doing so.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Massive government over regulation of a substance or inanimate object that is perceived to be dangerous to you or society?

Nope. I don't see a single similarity there. Not one.
I think I am grossly misreading this thread. Is OP pointing out that the government purposefully mislabeled these drugs? That is how I read it.

So in gist, the .gov is not regulating anything, but pushing its use improperly.
Yes, big pharma paid big money to influence a labeling change (bride, pay to play, however you want to describe it) in order to sell more highly addictive drugs, and the FDA was complicit in doing so.
I have no doubt the drug companies influenced FDA. If the money chasers want to go down that road, it will only hurt the citizenry as a whole because that is less money the drug companies have to pursue new drugs and also provides disincentive to do anything in R&D in the future.

All of that is beside the point that there is nothing else that works, in the end, for a lot of chronic pain sufferers. And for the government to play keep away in the name of righteousness at the expense of those who need it, is obscene.

Wait until they start really turning the screws on price fixing like they did with epi pens. How many people will be up in arms when "big pharma" takes their ball and goes home, so to speak. Why innovate if there's not going to be big profit on that big gamble?
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:18:32 PM EST
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
ROFL. Then you know a week-willed individual who probably had compulsion issues anyway.

I am calling bullshit on all of these "my buddy had his appendix removed and was sucking dick for heroin 48 hours later" stories.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
On one hand I feel like if I break my toe and need a few norco for a week I shouldn't have to ask uncle sugar for permission. On the other I personally know someone who got a bottle of lortabs after wisdom tooth surgery and it literally destroyed his life and family. Full blown heroin addict a few years later.
ROFL. Then you know a week-willed individual who probably had compulsion issues anyway.

I am calling bullshit on all of these "my buddy had his appendix removed and was sucking dick for heroin 48 hours later" stories.
This.

And Norco for a broken toe??? Lol, you don't know pain if you think your pain is bad enough to warrant "Norco" but you still have a "on the other hand..." statement. I assure you that in the scheme of injuries/conditions warranting pain meds, yours is LOW on the spectrum. On the other hand (jk), I still support your right to having pain relief.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:33:40 PM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Kind of like how they are giving out fentanyl, when its an end-of-life drug.
View Quote
It's not though. It's prescribed in patch form for some chronic pain patients.

I had two back surgeries in 2013 and six months later in 2014. I started taking Hydrocodone, and Oxycodone in late 2012 after my L4-L5 blew out. I tried to do rehab, and physical therapy, and ended up opting for the L4-L5 fusion. The second surgery was basically an emergency microdiscectomy because the L5-S1 blew out and I couldn't walk.

I had lots of Oxys and Dilaudid in the hospital. I took bucketloads of Oxys until about Feb 2015.

The doc tapered me off, and I haven't had any since then. I fear for the next time I blow a disc. (Once you've had a fusion, it's like a cumulative 5% chance per year of another herniated disk above or below the fusion. )

The next time, without the pain meds... I fear it.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:37:22 PM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've never suggested there are millions of 20-30 year olds that have been turned into addicts.

But, that said, what if the number is 100K per year in the 20 to 30 age range?  Is that acceptable?  How about 50K per year?

What is the acceptable number, assuming the patients are not being told up front that they are likely or very likely to become addicted to opiates if they use them for long term pain management?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
There aren't millions of 20-30 year-olds in chronic pain being turned into addicts by being given opiates. You can't possibly think that's true. Any asshole can go to some pain management clinic and get a script so they can get high or sell the pills to make money.
I've never suggested there are millions of 20-30 year olds that have been turned into addicts.

But, that said, what if the number is 100K per year in the 20 to 30 age range?  Is that acceptable?  How about 50K per year?

What is the acceptable number, assuming the patients are not being told up front that they are likely or very likely to become addicted to opiates if they use them for long term pain management?
My point is the medical community is not creating opiate addicts by any large margin. People using shit for recreational purposes is what produces addicts on the whole. You can't blame the medical community for cocaine, crack, meth, bath salts, etc. Blaming the medical community and pharmas for opiate addicts is a cheap scapegoat just because opiates have long had legitimate medical uses.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:39:06 PM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've never suggested there are millions of 20-30 year olds that have been turned into addicts.

But, that said, what if the number is 100K per year in the 20 to 30 age range?  Is that acceptable?  How about 50K per year?

What is the acceptable number, assuming the patients are not being told up front that they are likely or very likely to become addicted to opiates if they use them for long term pain management?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
There aren't millions of 20-30 year-olds in chronic pain being turned into addicts by being given opiates. You can't possibly think that's true. Any asshole can go to some pain management clinic and get a script so they can get high or sell the pills to make money.
I've never suggested there are millions of 20-30 year olds that have been turned into addicts.

But, that said, what if the number is 100K per year in the 20 to 30 age range?  Is that acceptable?  How about 50K per year?

What is the acceptable number, assuming the patients are not being told up front that they are likely or very likely to become addicted to opiates if they use them for long term pain management?
Not a single person in the last decade has gotten an opiate script and NOT told about the risks and side effects with addiction being the very first thing talked about. Hell even the pharmacy handout the number one risk is  addiction. Nobody in today's world doesn't know the risks of opiates use.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:39:23 PM EST
[#14]
There's so much derp in this thread.

Some folks need pain meds, and bottom line the government and everyone else needs to stay the hell out of everyone's lives. Why does anyone think they can regulate what others do? We're supposed to be a free nation, and if someone wants to ruin they're life I don't give a crap, actions have something something.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:42:51 PM EST
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else.  It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else.  It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.


There have been all sorts of shenanigans with opiod dosing/prescribing parameters at the regulatory level - see the articles below... I'm in the medical field and have seen this scenario play out with patients and with family members. I got to watch this up close and personal with my dad for the last several years of his life. The 12-hour Oxycontin would last maybe 4-5 hours for him and the bone-on-bone pain in his hip.. he had to tough it out until his next dose was due several hours later. The docs said they couldn't change the frequency, only increase the dose... which would leave my dad drugged up and out of it for a few hours (and at risk for falls - which he did end up doing) until it wore off way to early and he was back 8 out of 10 on the pain scale and waiting 4-5 hours for his next dose..

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-oxycontin-full-coverage/

OxyContin’s main selling point is that it lasts 12 hours. The Times investigation published this month found that when the effects don’t last, patients can suffer symptoms of narcotic withdrawal, including intense craving for the drug, and experience a cycle of agony and relief that experts say promotes addiction.

The newspaper found that Purdue had evidence of the problem for more than two decades, but continued to insist the drug lasted 12 hours, in part, to protect its revenue. OxyContin’s market dominance and premium price hinge on its 12-hour duration. Purdue instructed doctors who complained about the drug’s duration to prescribe stronger, but not more frequent, doses. Research shows that patients taking high doses of opioids are at greater risk of an overdose and death...
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:43:04 PM EST
[#16]
Opioid crisis is fake news and a crock of shit.

When my little 80 year old mother in law is in such pain she can’t sleep, but she can’t get a prescription for a painkiller that actually takes the edge off, it’s a bad situation.

Once again the government makes a problem and then swoops in to punish us for it.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:43:45 PM EST
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

View Quote
As with abortion in the case of rape or danger to the mother, we all know damn well that’s not the case for all but a tiny fraction of long term prescribed opioid users.  How much less than agonizing do you think they should be prescribed for (and also keep in mind that withdrawal will temporarily make felt pain worse)?
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:44:31 PM EST
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There's so much derp in this thread.

Some folks need pain meds, and bottom line the government and everyone else needs to stay the hell out of everyone's lives. Why does anyone think they can regulate what others do? We're supposed to be a free nation, and if someone wants to ruin they're life I don't give a crap, actions have something something.
View Quote
The government put themselves in to our lives via pay off from pharma in this case, and gave the blessing that a drug is safe for long term use when it is not safe for long term use.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:47:07 PM EST
[#19]
An utter crock of shit.

"Opiod Crisis" my ass!

Its truly pathetic what the DEA and .gov have now done to people with legitimate pain issues.

Just flat pathetic.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:52:07 PM EST
[#20]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2622774/

I'm sure most will TL;DR this one, but it's worth a read including some of the sources... Much more @ the link.

CONTROLLED DRUGS, WITH their potential for abuse and diversion, can pose public health risks that are different from—and more problematic than—those of uncontrolled drugs when they are overpromoted and highly prescribed. An in-depth analysis of the promotion and marketing of OxyContin (Purdue Pharma, Stamford, CT), a sustained-release oxycodone preparation, illustrates some of the key issues. When Purdue Pharma introduced OxyContin in 1996, it was aggressively marketed and highly promoted. Sales grew from $48 million in 1996 to almost $1.1 billion in 2000.1 The high availability of OxyContin correlated with increased abuse, diversion, and addiction, and by 2004 OxyContin had become a leading drug of abuse in the United States.2

Under current regulations, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is limited in its oversight of the marketing and promotion of controlled drugs. However, fundamental changes in the promotion and marketing of controlled drugs by the pharmaceutical industry, and an enhanced capacity of the FDA to regulate and monitor such promotion, can positively affect public health.

OxyContin's commercial success did not depend on the merits of the drug compared with other available opioid preparations. The Medical Letter on Drugs and Therapeutics concluded in 2001 that oxycodone offered no advantage over appropriate doses of other potent opioids.3 Randomized double-blind studies comparing OxyContin given every 12 hours with immediate-release oxycodone given 4 times daily showed comparable efficacy and safety for use with chronic back pain4 and cancer-related pain.5,6 Randomized double-blind studies that compared OxyContin with controlled-release morphine for cancer-related pain also found comparable efficacy and safety.7–9 The FDA's medical review officer, in evaluating the efficacy of OxyContin in Purdue's 1995 new drug application, concluded that OxyContin had not been shown to have a significant advantage over conventional, immediate-release oxycodone taken 4 times daily other than a reduction in frequency of dosing.10 In a review of the medical literature, Chou et al. made similar conclusions.11

The promotion and marketing of OxyContin occurred during a recent trend in the liberalization of the use of opioids in the treatment of pain, particularly for chronic non–cancer-related pain. Purdue pursued an “aggressive” campaign to promote the use of opioids in general and OxyContin in particular.1,12–17 In 2001 alone, the company spent $200 million18 in an array of approaches to market and promote OxyContin.

Go to:
PROMOTION OF OXYCONTIN
From 1996 to 2001, Purdue conducted more than 40 national pain-management and speaker-training conferences at resorts in Florida, Arizona, and California. More than 5000 physicians, pharmacists, and nurses attended these all-expenses-paid symposia, where they were recruited and trained for Purdue's national speaker bureau.19(p22) It is well documented that this type of pharmaceutical company symposium influences physicians’ prescribing, even though the physicians who attend such symposia believe that such enticements do not alter their prescribing patterns.20

One of the cornerstones of Purdue's marketing plan was the use of sophisticated marketing data to influence physicians’ prescribing. Drug companies compile prescriber profiles on individual physicians—detailing the prescribing patterns of physicians nationwide—in an effort to influence doctors’ prescribing habits. Through these profiles, a drug company can identify the highest and lowest prescribers of particular drugs in a single zip code, county, state, or the entire country.21 One of the critical foundations of Purdue's marketing plan for OxyContin was to target the physicians who were the highest prescribers for opioids across the country.1,12–17,22 The resulting database would help identify physicians with large numbers of chronic-pain patients. Unfortunately, this same database would also identify which physicians were simply the most frequent prescribers of opioids and, in some cases, the least discriminate prescribers.

A lucrative bonus system encouraged sales representatives to increase sales of OxyContin in their territories, resulting in a large number of visits to physicians with high rates of opioid prescriptions, as well as a multifaceted information campaign aimed at them. In 2001, in addition to the average sales representative's annual salary of $55 000, annual bonuses averaged $71 500, with a range of $15 000 to nearly $240 000. Purdue paid $40 million in sales incentive bonuses to its sales representatives that year.19

From 1996 to 2000, Purdue increased its internal sales force from 318 sales representatives to 671, and its total physician call list from approximately 33 400 to 44 500 to approximately 70 500 to 94 000 physicians.19 Through the sales representatives, Purdue used a patient starter coupon program for OxyContin that provided patients with a free limited-time prescription for a 7- to 30-day supply. By 2001, when the program was ended, approximately 34 000 coupons had been redeemed nationally.19

The distribution to health care professionals of branded promotional items such as OxyContin fishing hats, stuffed plush toys, and music compact discs (“Get in the Swing With OxyContin”) was unprecedented for a schedule II opioid, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration.19

Purdue promoted among primary care physicians a more liberal use of opioids, particularly sustained-release opioids. Primary care physicians began to use more of the increasingly popular OxyContin; by 2003, nearly half of all physicians prescribing OxyContin were primary care physicians.19 Some experts were concerned that primary care physicians were not sufficiently trained in pain management or addiction issues.23 Primary care physicians, particularly in a managed care environment of time constraints, also had the least amount of time for evaluation and follow-up of patients with complicated chronic pain.

Purdue “aggressively” promoted the use of opioids for use in the “non-malignant pain market.”
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:55:02 PM EST
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The whole "opioid crisis" is another stupid left-wing manufactured propaganda piece foisted on the ill-informed and dimwitted by the Democrat Party. It's no different than them focusing on firearms instead of the underlying problem (bad people doing bad stuff). The underlying problem [in the "opioid crisis"] is addiction. If you eliminated all opioids today the addicts would just transition to something else (more than likely meth, cocaine, alcohol, etc.). People need to stop being so gullible and focusing on the inanimate "thing" and instead focus on the underlying behavior.
View Quote
This is idiotic, the scale of the opioid issue is very real.  There are suddenly so many more addicts, largely because it’s such addicting stuff compared to what losers typically got high on (shocker) and because our country is being doused with it like an insecticide along both legitimate and illegal channels to reach as much of society as possible.  We had a similar issue with heroin in years past, and it basically died out with its users under heavy cultural and law enforcement opposition (and disruption of overseas suppliers)

The opium crisis in China wasn’t due to social problems, it was due to a chemical agent that inexorably fucks with peoples’ minds being introduced in large quantities as a weapon.  That introduction was allowed because of a social problem, but spiraled into something new from there.  The only solution they found was attacking supplier & demander simultaneously, ruthlessly putting to death anyone associated with opium.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:55:40 PM EST
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The government put themselves in to our lives via pay off from pharma in this case, and gave the blessing that a drug is safe for long term use when it is not safe for long term use.
View Quote
I don't give a crap what they're doing, they and you need to stay out of people's lives. How hard is that to understand? It's called freedom and liberty, maybe some need to read the definition.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:56:51 PM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We all know that taking NSAIDs long term is bad for you but take them anyway because drugs are bad M'kay.
View Quote
Actually no; remember the whole Celebrex liver damage scandal years ago?  NSAID panic has been in full swing since then, and now there’s tons of warnings on bottles, and arthritis sufferers have to use other options.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:59:32 PM EST
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
As with abortion in the case of rape or danger to the mother, we all know damn well that’s not the case for all but a tiny fraction of long term prescribed opioid users.  How much less than agonizing do you think they should be prescribed for (and also keep in mind that withdrawal will temporarily make felt pain worse)?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

As with abortion in the case of rape or danger to the mother, we all know damn well that’s not the case for all but a tiny fraction of long term prescribed opioid users.  How much less than agonizing do you think they should be prescribed for (and also keep in mind that withdrawal will temporarily make felt pain worse)?
What a holier than thou answer. You know all about how much pain you want someone to be in before your feelings are ok with them having opioids.

I do hope you remember this post, if and when you are balled up and writhing in pain possibly toward the end of your time on this Earth and the doc says, "We're going to get you some pain management folks in here to help you talk through your discomfort".

How much less than agonizing? If someone has a fucking hangnail they don't want to feel, they should be able to go to Walmart and buy morphine OTC.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 3:59:42 PM EST
[#25]
Thats interesting.....

My doctor just changed my NSAID because of the fear of "liver and kidney toxicity"......for the third time.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:01:34 PM EST
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The government put themselves in to our lives via pay off from pharma in this case, and gave the blessing that a drug is safe for long term use when it is not safe for long term use.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's so much derp in this thread.

Some folks need pain meds, and bottom line the government and everyone else needs to stay the hell out of everyone's lives. Why does anyone think they can regulate what others do? We're supposed to be a free nation, and if someone wants to ruin they're life I don't give a crap, actions have something something.
The government put themselves in to our lives via pay off from pharma in this case, and gave the blessing that a drug is safe for long term use when it is not safe for long term use.
Define "not safe".

Clean morphine can be ingested in perpetuity without damaging the body.

Driving is "not safe". Should that be regulated, too?
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:01:38 PM EST
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
An utter crock of shit.

"Opiod Crisis" my ass!

Its truly pathetic what the DEA and .gov have now done to people with legitimate pain issues.

Just flat pathetic.
View Quote
It's obscene. They're making people suffer.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:03:01 PM EST
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The deal with oxycontin, which was genuine, was that it makes abuse more difficult. It is a time-release oxycodone tablet made in such a way that it can't (at least not easily) be chewed, dissolved, ground up, et c. Doing those things releases the full dose immediately, which gives the buzz that abusers are after.
View Quote
The deal was also it was being given away in massive quantities for everything “because it’s non-addicting” all over the country until fairly recently.  Turns out many folks (obviously) got enough of a taste for opioids from oxy that the reduced addictive quality was overwhelmed by the ease of access, and when it was denied were compelled to seek other compounds.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:04:13 PM EST
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Define "not safe".

Clean morphine can be ingested in perpetuity without damaging the body.

Driving is "not safe". Should that be regulated, too?
View Quote
If you want to protect sober drivers from drunk ones, ban cars.

...That's the rationale behind gun control.

Seems like the same rationale for dealing with junkies. Deny treatment to legitimate patients. It is quite literally obscene.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:05:00 PM EST
[#30]
These types of threads reveal who has actually been in REAL PAIN........and who hasn't.

And also who has watched their love ones in REAL PAIN suffer.

Who has a theoretical understanding and who has real life experiences.

The abusers will still be abusing and the legitimate people who need pain meds get royally f#cked over.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:05:06 PM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The deal was also it was being given away in massive quantities for everything “because it’s non-addicting” all over the country until fairly recently.  Turns out many folks (obviously) got enough of a taste for opioids from oxy that the reduced addictive quality was overwhelmed by the ease of access, and when it was denied were compelled to seek other compounds.
View Quote
Not a single person in modern history has ever said that Opioids are non-addictive.

No one. Ever.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:05:53 PM EST
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The deal was also it was being given away in massive quantities for everything “because it’s non-addicting” all over the country until fairly recently.  Turns out many folks (obviously) got enough of a taste for opioids from oxy that the reduced addictive quality was overwhelmed by the ease of access, and when it was denied were compelled to seek other compounds.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The deal with oxycontin, which was genuine, was that it makes abuse more difficult. It is a time-release oxycodone tablet made in such a way that it can't (at least not easily) be chewed, dissolved, ground up, et c. Doing those things releases the full dose immediately, which gives the buzz that abusers are after.
The deal was also it was being given away in massive quantities for everything “because it’s non-addicting” all over the country until fairly recently.  Turns out many folks (obviously) got enough of a taste for opioids from oxy that the reduced addictive quality was overwhelmed by the ease of access, and when it was denied were compelled to seek other compounds.
It CAN be easily destructed.  The testing to reach that conclusion has been proven to be flawed.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:07:42 PM EST
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Your point?

Better to have them off themselves sooner because the pain is unbearable?

Here's an idea. People take what they want to take or what their doctor (who should not have to worry about the government playing nanny) advises them to take.

Everyone can make believe they're an adult and do what they want with their own body and not worry about what some other adult does with their own body.

A novel concept, I know. Personal responsibility, liberty, and freedom.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

See post below;

I know from previous threads here in GD that there are shit ton of GD members that consume massive amounts of pain meds, and there have even been a couple suicide threads that involved members in extreme pain who were still taking opioids.
Your point?

Better to have them off themselves sooner because the pain is unbearable?

Here's an idea. People take what they want to take or what their doctor (who should not have to worry about the government playing nanny) advises them to take.

Everyone can make believe they're an adult and do what they want with their own body and not worry about what some other adult does with their own body.

A novel concept, I know. Personal responsibility, liberty, and freedom.
If they’re gonna kill themselves regardless, yeah, do it before they are driving a large truck at speed or robbing/killing for drug money & funding a multi billion dollar invasion at the southern border in the process.

What an idiotic question.

BTW, you’re making an argument for assisted suicide (ie prescribe a one time massive dose of junk).  Not sure if you realize.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:07:58 PM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Not a single person in the last decade has gotten an opiate script and NOT told about the risks and side effects with addiction being the very first thing talked about. Hell even the pharmacy handout the number one risk is  addiction. Nobody in today's world doesn't know the risks of opiates use.
View Quote
No, that's the basic point.  Some/many patients are still being told, to this very day, that long term use of opiates presents a low risk of addiction.   Addiction is described as being "rare" with long term use.

The devil is in the details here.  It is rare if you follow the relatively strict guidelines and your opiates are properly managed.  With mis-use, the likelihood of addiction goes up.

And, one comment by the doctor trumps three paragraphs in the literature/handouts.  Especially when you are dealing with an addictive substance.

For reference purposes, in 2012, the Nat. Inst. of Health estimated there are between 6 and 8 million people in the US using opiates for long term control of chronic non-cancer based pain.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:08:23 PM EST
[#35]
Everyone wants to blame big pharma for their problems as big pharma is viewed as having deep pockets. Start suing the FDA if you feel this strongly about it.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:09:34 PM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

It CAN be chewed, crushed, dissolved, and ground up.  The testing to reach that conclusion has been proven to be flawed.
View Quote
Who cares? If people want to get high they will get high. Why is it your job or anyone else's job to regulate what other's put in their bodies? Some so called conservatives sure sound a lot like liberals.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:09:45 PM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There are a handful of people in this thread talking about personally needing their pain meds every day.  Ever hear of the term functioning alcoholic?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else.  It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.
Dr's prescribe them based on the labeling though, so as noted with posters above, they are told, "keep shoveling these pills in your mouth".
What else should they tell them?  The "opioid crisis" has little to do with chronic pain sufferers who are taking a medically prescribed treatment and much more to do with people who chose to illicitly inject street drugs like heroin and fentanyl which are being imported into the country by the container load.    The vast majority of addicts nodding off in the street are not medically diagnosed with a chronic pain condition.
There are a handful of people in this thread talking about personally needing their pain meds every day.  Ever hear of the term functioning alcoholic?
So you are comparing people with chronic pain issues who need pain medicine to function, to alcoholics?   You don't see a difference between someone addicted to alcohol and someone with a spine injury that can't function due to pain?   Have you ever talked to someone with chronic pain?  I have and they all say they don't get a high from their pain medicine.   Attenuation is well documented with opioids.    Two different situations.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:15:11 PM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

If they’re gonna kill themselves regardless, yeah, do it before they are driving a large truck at speed or robbing/killing for drug money & funding a multi billion dollar invasion at the southern border in the process.

What an idiotic question.

BTW, you’re making an argument for assisted suicide (ie prescribe a one time massive dose of junk).  Not sure if you realize.
View Quote
You jump from someone controlling their pain to DUI, armed robbery and assisted suicide and you're calling me idiotic?

LOL.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:17:59 PM EST
[#39]
It has dawned on me that I could help some of the non believers in pain management to have a different perspective.

I have simple ways to show you pain that you would do absolutely anything to make it stop.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:18:03 PM EST
[#40]
Geez, I think someone in this thread might be an obvious shill for big pharma.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:20:16 PM EST
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Everyone wants to blame big pharma for their problems as big pharma is viewed as having deep pockets. Start suing the FDA if you feel this strongly about it.
View Quote
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.  
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:25:02 PM EST
[#42]
LOL at the muh pain pills people losing their shit at the thought of losing their connect.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:25:07 PM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
No, that's the basic point.  Some/many patients are still being told, to this very day, that long term use of opiates presents a low risk of addiction.   Addiction is described as being "rare" with long term use.

The devil is in the details here.  It is rare if you follow the relatively strict guidelines and your opiates are properly managed.  With mis-use, the likelihood of addiction goes up.

And, one comment by the doctor trumps three paragraphs in the literature/handouts.  Especially when you are dealing with an addictive substance.

For reference purposes, in 2012, the Nat. Inst. of Health estimated there are between 6 and 8 million people in the US using opiates for long term control of chronic non-cancer based pain.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Not a single person in the last decade has gotten an opiate script and NOT told about the risks and side effects with addiction being the very first thing talked about. Hell even the pharmacy handout the number one risk is  addiction. Nobody in today's world doesn't know the risks of opiates use.
No, that's the basic point.  Some/many patients are still being told, to this very day, that long term use of opiates presents a low risk of addiction.   Addiction is described as being "rare" with long term use.

The devil is in the details here.  It is rare if you follow the relatively strict guidelines and your opiates are properly managed.  With mis-use, the likelihood of addiction goes up.

And, one comment by the doctor trumps three paragraphs in the literature/handouts.  Especially when you are dealing with an addictive substance.

For reference purposes, in 2012, the Nat. Inst. of Health estimated there are between 6 and 8 million people in the US using opiates for long term control of chronic non-cancer based pain.
Addiction gets thrown round  a lot and I think many are confusing addiction with chemical dependency.   Every person I have known on long term opiate use for pain, after a certain amount of time has become chemically defendant. As in their body will go through a withdrawl cycle after use is discontinued.  A person who is addicted will not voluntarily subject themselves to withdrawals if they have a choice. See the difference?

Chemically defendant they will withdrawl and go about life and try to figure out a way to manage their pain, they are looking fr pain relief not a high or euphoria. An addict will do anything under the sun to not enter withdrawl stage, they are not looking for pain relief but instead looking for the high or Euphoria which is why they are in constant need of higher , stronger and more drugs.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:26:08 PM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This is idiotic, the scale of the opioid issue is very real.  There are suddenly so many more addicts,
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The whole "opioid crisis" is another stupid left-wing manufactured propaganda piece foisted on the ill-informed and dimwitted by the Democrat Party. It's no different than them focusing on firearms instead of the underlying problem (bad people doing bad stuff). The underlying problem [in the "opioid crisis"] is addiction. If you eliminated all opioids today the addicts would just transition to something else (more than likely meth, cocaine, alcohol, etc.). People need to stop being so gullible and focusing on the inanimate "thing" and instead focus on the underlying behavior.
This is idiotic, the scale of the opioid issue is very real.  There are suddenly so many more addicts,
Really? According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) Center for Behavioral Health Statistics and Quality, National Surveys on Drug Use and Health (NSDUHs) between 2002 and 2014 all substances abuse rates were trending downward or remained fairly unchanged.


Source
Quoted:
largely because it's such addicting stuff compared to what losers typically got high on (shocker) and because our country is being doused with it like an insecticide along both legitimate and illegal channels to reach as much of society as possible.
Riddle me this, how is it tens of millions of people annually are prescribed opioids and never become addicted? If opioids are so addicting how come everyone who uses opioids doesn't become addicted to them? Myself, my wife, and countless other people I know used opioids after surgery and, shockingly, not a single one of us became addicts.

Quoted:
We had a similar issue with heroin in years past, and it basically died out with its users under heavy cultural and law enforcement opposition (and disruption of overseas suppliers)
And guess what? If you run the data you will more than likely find those addicts simply transitioned from heroin to something else, be it other illicit drugs, alcohol, etc.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:26:51 PM EST
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

View Quote
I think there is a huge difference between an informed pain management choice and blindly recommending certain opiates for long term use.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:27:34 PM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
These types of threads reveal who has actually been in REAL PAIN........and who hasn't.

And also who has watched their love ones in REAL PAIN suffer.

Who has a theoretical understanding and who has real life experiences.

The abusers will still be abusing and the legitimate people who need pain meds get royally f#cked over.
View Quote
Bingo.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:29:57 PM EST
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Or make legit street addicts out of them. Every person and I do mean every person I know that had opiate scrips have been cut cold turkey.  We are talking about people with some real pain issues and OTC and Phys Rehab ain't going to help.

My wife had a post op patient  in her office in tears because they refused to refill a script and cut her cold turkey from Percocet and she had been in withdrawals from opiates for 4 days before her office and the pharmacy got squared away.
View Quote
So your wife had a patient who was in tears because they were addicted then.  Glad to see that person got the help they needed with their addiction...
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:30:37 PM EST
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It has dawned on me that I could help some of the non believers in pain management to have a different perspective.

I have simple ways to show you pain that you would do absolutely anything to make it stop.
View Quote
Yeah, like shooting them with a fentanyl-tipped dart

You know how "admitting you have a problem" is the first step in addiction management?  It's because a shitload of addicts are in denial.  The pain becomes a means of justifying the addiction, even when the body reacts more violently to withdrawal than to the existing condition.  I'd have no problem letting people zonk-out on their Soma of choice if they prefer being stoned to reality, but it becomes my business when they crash cars, crime, expose kids to the stuff, attract pushers, and fund a foreign government's destructive ambitions on my nation's soil.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:33:10 PM EST
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
LOL at the muh pain pills people losing their shit at the thought of losing their connect.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/85104/E664924E-A0A1-45F3-85F0-9C4DA6E691D2_png-857978.JPG
View Quote
LOL. Every time.
Link Posted: 2/25/2019 4:33:36 PM EST
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.  
View Quote
That is why I asked you to clarify earlier. This thread is crazy.
Page / 6
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top