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Posted: 1/19/2022 8:13:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like Ukraine is a testbed for current and future conflicts. like the spanish civil war was a testbed for some aspects to blitzkrieg |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 8:27:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: like the spanish civil war was a testbed for some aspects to blitzkrieg I think that the recent war between Armenia and Azerbaijan really opened some eyes on near peer conflicts and the utilization of modern drones. You're seeing the Russian forces taking those lessons and implementing them heavily in their forces, with a large emphasis on jamming capabilities and additional topside armor for their tanks. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 8:28:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Ryan_Scott Wife's mom helps run/work for a volunteer effort in Ukraine. Most regions have the same. They raise money, buy stuff and send to front line. Average Ukrainian salary is about $250-400 a month (a rural doctor may make $400/month), pensioniers make ~$52 a month, so they get a lot of $2-10 donations Things the money goes to are often basic meds for troops (and working dogs), shovels/chain saws/rebar staples for building bunkers, baofeng radios, and material for making camo nets. Threat at the border is not a new thing, Wife (Ukrainian) made nets when she visits, and we helped take stuff to pickup depo when I was there. It's been ongoing since 2014. This their driver's facebook page, you may find interesting: https://www.facebook.com/targosha as there are pictures of the front line bunkers. They take casualties on the Ukrainian side, but they are instructed to not return fire, as Russia could use it as a excuse to invade. In country you can load money to their card ( 4246 0010 0171 5675 PrivatBank) but when I send funds I send by Western Union on my now sister-in-law to deposit. There really isn't a reason to send goods there, they have basic military hardware. They meds for the german shepards that may cost $1, shoves that $3, food and candy that is basically 1/4th the price of what it would cost here. Material for the volunteer's to make nets, blankets with, etc. From the reciepts they posted looks like Beofengs cost about the same there as here. If I remember correctly, some groups of the Polish Rifleman's Association and Lithuanian Rifleman's Union donated some equipment when the conflict began in 2014. Shoot, one leader of the polish paramilitaries went down tot he front as a non-combat medic to gain experience. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 9:09:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for the info. I have Ukrainian relatives and I am part Ukrainian. Hope we can survive the Russian invasion but it looks like it will just become Chechnya 2.0 (or 3.0 considering they lost the first time).
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Posted: 1/19/2022 9:47:21 PM EDT
[#5]
That was pretty good OP, thanks.
So, is BRCC a CIA operation? They wouldn't be spending their own money on this. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 9:56:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was pretty good OP, thanks. So, is BRCC a CIA operation? They wouldn't be spending their own money on this. Forward Observations is not BRCC. Coffee or Die = BRCC magazine Evan from BRCC worked for the CIA back in the day, but I don't think he was an agent, just a contractor. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 10:03:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "In 2002, a single Javelin command launch unit cost $126,000, and each missile cost around $78,000 (equivalent to $112,000 in 2020). This is reinforced by the US Army's Fiscal Year 2018 unit cost for the Javelin weapon system, which put the unit cost at $206,705. " Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't think the javelin was ever even close to that expensive. Nor was/is the CLU. "In 2002, a single Javelin command launch unit cost $126,000, and each missile cost around $78,000 (equivalent to $112,000 in 2020). This is reinforced by the US Army's Fiscal Year 2018 unit cost for the Javelin weapon system, which put the unit cost at $206,705. " So not 300k for a rocket or 200k for a CLU. Has the imaging in the new, cheaper toy improved? The thermal in the jav clu used to be awesome, but it's dated. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 10:08:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @BenjaminDover lmao they did https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/346339/EBBB80CC-CF78-4630-9BBF-76CB2085AD95_jpe-2245953.JPG |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 10:09:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A javelin runs about $75K each NLAW was $24K pounds or $32k A Russian tank costs a bit more Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "Drone swarms" A shit ton of cheap guided anti-armor munitions. Reactive armor is only effective when it goes off, trigger it, then hit the target again and again after that and you only defended against the first attack. This. A javelin is what 300k? plus a 200k launcher; a off the shelf drone is what 300 bucks? attach a shaped charge and touch detonator and a tank kill is 2X300 dollar drones, 2 shaped charges, and and you can reuse teh 100 dollar controller. in 2002 my RA was working on an airdropped robot that would swivel around 360 and squirt water at hot spots for forest fires. He adamantly refused to do I figured out his wire binding problem between CPU and thermal detector (used berrings that would conduct vs wires, could infinitely go 360 degrees, and i wasn't an engineer lol). It couldn't be that different to simply put that same tech in a drone and change operating parameters from 200 over background temps, to 60 over background temp and , add a "go 400 meters X direction". release 3 at a time and you could kill a running tank pretty quick, without even popping out of your foxhole. The Nlaws looked fairly easy to use and MUCH cheaper(40K, plus free ACOG), Though they seem to be pretty large smoke clouds that could give away firing position, which would make me a little less anxious to use during combat... I don't think the javelin was ever even close to that expensive. Nor was/is the CLU. NLAW was $24K pounds or $32k A Russian tank costs a bit more I believe your prices are low. Also, that's not what I was saying. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 10:10:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want a javelin |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 10:12:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: holy shit! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "In 2002, a single Javelin command launch unit cost $126,000, and each missile cost around $78,000 (equivalent to $112,000 in 2020). This is reinforced by the US Army's Fiscal Year 2018 unit cost for the Javelin weapon system, which put the unit cost at $206,705. " holy shit! I fired some at really cheap targets when we were getting ready to leave and didn't have a way to carry them. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 10:23:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So not 300k for a rocket or 200k for a CLU. Has the imaging in the new, cheaper toy improved? The thermal in the jav clu used to be awesome, but it's dated. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't think the javelin was ever even close to that expensive. Nor was/is the CLU. "In 2002, a single Javelin command launch unit cost $126,000, and each missile cost around $78,000 (equivalent to $112,000 in 2020). This is reinforced by the US Army's Fiscal Year 2018 unit cost for the Javelin weapon system, which put the unit cost at $206,705. " So not 300k for a rocket or 200k for a CLU. Has the imaging in the new, cheaper toy improved? The thermal in the jav clu used to be awesome, but it's dated. The imaging has improved, there's no longer a narrow fov and the standard fov, it's a smooth zoom. Range of weapon is now over 4km and it is 30% lighter. But I'm pretty sure Ukraine is not getting those. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 10:26:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The imaging has improved, there's no longer a narrow fov and the standard fov, it's a smooth zoom. Range of weapon is now over 4km and it is 30% lighter. But I'm pretty sure Ukraine is not getting those. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't think the javelin was ever even close to that expensive. Nor was/is the CLU. "In 2002, a single Javelin command launch unit cost $126,000, and each missile cost around $78,000 (equivalent to $112,000 in 2020). This is reinforced by the US Army's Fiscal Year 2018 unit cost for the Javelin weapon system, which put the unit cost at $206,705. " So not 300k for a rocket or 200k for a CLU. Has the imaging in the new, cheaper toy improved? The thermal in the jav clu used to be awesome, but it's dated. The imaging has improved, there's no longer a narrow fov and the standard fov, it's a smooth zoom. Range of weapon is now over 4km and it is 30% lighter. But I'm pretty sure Ukraine is not getting those. So hot. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 10:27:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Neat
 
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Posted: 1/19/2022 10:33:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I fired some at really cheap targets when we were getting ready to leave and didn't have a way to carry them. I never got to fire a live round. My class back in the day only had a single live round and I wasn't picked to fire it, oh well. I did carry a training round and CLU at NTC in 2003, which sucked. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 10:34:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The imaging has improved, there's no longer a narrow fov and the standard fov, it's a smooth zoom. Range of weapon is now over 4km and it is 30% lighter. But I'm pretty sure Ukraine is not getting those. Nice! Beggers can't be choosers; Ukraine is lucky to get anything at all! |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 10:35:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want a javelin Shoot, I’d be satisfied with a Gustav. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 10:55:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Swarms of smaller drones was a thing in the EW world back in 2007 if not a bit earlier if that tells you anything. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My son worked with swarms in college. "Angel Has Fallen" seemed pretty out of this world in the reality sense......until he told me it was already happening. He now works for Raytheon and can't tell me anything. Very scary tech.  Swarms of smaller drones was a thing in the EW world back in 2007 if not a bit earlier if that tells you anything. Word. About 2005 when I worked at AFRL I demoed (and transistioned) completely autonomous swarm dynamics with small drones in both homogenous and heterogeneous configurations for a Darpa/socom (j)uon. "See that bitch in a Tacoma acouple miles away? Go fuck him up, and any of his buddies." It's actually been public info a long time now. This is "old" tech. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 11:06:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My son worked with swarms in college. "Angel Has Fallen" seemed pretty out of this world in the reality sense......until he told me it was already happening. He now works for Raytheon and can't tell me anything. Very scary tech. @guns762 is he in Tucson? If so there's a good chance I know him. I was the launch system lead for this  Watch the Navy's LOCUST launcher fire a swarm of drones |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 11:07:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: . Autonomous targeting isn’t cheap. Ummm.... Sure. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 11:14:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shoot, I’d be satisfied with a Gustav. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I want a javelin Shoot, I’d be satisfied with a Gustav. If we're talking personal collection, I much rather have the g. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 11:26:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummm.... Sure. $10,000-30,000 a unit is expensive for most militaries. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 11:31:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $10,000-30,000 a unit is expensive for most militaries. It can be done much, much, cheaper than that. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 11:42:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It can be done much, much, cheaper than that. You could corner the market then. I’ll invest. This is for military type units with uncooked thermal cores, directional radio capability, etc? Or are we putting claymores on Mavics? |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:18:21 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could corner the market then. I’ll invest. This is for military type units with uncooked thermal cores, directional radio capability, etc? Or are we putting claymores on Mavics? I already transitioned the system to the field(amongst others) almost two decades ago. See above. Don't know what an "uncooked" thermal core is. Are you trying to referring to a microbolometer vice a chilled dewar for the fpa? Uncooled maybe? If so, you don't need mid/long IR for fftt... That's just padding the AUR cost to get more fee out of the NRE numbers. Aka 5000 dollar hammering the solution. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:24:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could corner the market then. I’ll invest. This is for military type units with uncooked thermal cores, directional radio capability, etc? Or are we putting claymores on Mavics? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It can be done much, much, cheaper than that. You could corner the market then. I’ll invest. This is for military type units with uncooked thermal cores, directional radio capability, etc? Or are we putting claymores on Mavics? If we can put a claymore on a roomba we can put one on a mavic too. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:25:18 AM EDT
[#27]
How are you seeing in the dark? Visible spectrum camera? The fielder units I’m aware of all use thermal, even the cheap ones and the ones that don’t allow for an operator to view what the sensor sees like bonus. And yeah my iPhone prefers uncooked to uncooled.
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:27:22 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we can put a claymore on a roomba we can put one on a mavic too. Something like it has been done, but I wouldn’t want to be using a radio 1000m from angry US or Russian Soldiers. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:37:33 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Something like it has been done, but I wouldn’t want to be using a radio 1000m from angry US or Russian Soldiers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If we can put a claymore on a roomba we can put one on a mavic too. Something like it has been done, but I wouldn’t want to be using a radio 1000m from angry US or Russian Soldiers. I’m going to be honest with you. I had no idea that roombas were radio controlled. 
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:39:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m going to be honest with you. I had no idea that roombas were radio controlled. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If we can put a claymore on a roomba we can put one on a mavic too. Something like it has been done, but I wouldn’t want to be using a radio 1000m from angry US or Russian Soldiers. I’m going to be honest with you. I had no idea that roombas were radio controlled. You don't think those movements are random, do you? |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:44:29 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol just because we don't like Jen doesn't give you credibility. You've made several mistakes in your post a native American English speaker would not make. I'm not going to point them out because I don't want you to learn from them. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/425212/1629523773534-2225728.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Jen Psaki (WH press secretary) one week denying false flags exist and now saying Russia is going to do a false flag. Do we believe anything coming from the WH at this point? The whole Obiden admin's boogieman is Russia. Quoted: Not to mention USA government has been doing false flags against its own citizens for some time now. Jan. 6, Patriot Front march in DC, Virginia election right wing false flag demonstration who all turned out to be DNC operatives, Jan. 6 remembrance gathering, DC truck guy with bombs, etc. Edit: also Charlottesville and most probably Mandalay Bay Lol just because we don't like Jen doesn't give you credibility. You've made several mistakes in your post a native American English speaker would not make. I'm not going to point them out because I don't want you to learn from them. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/425212/1629523773534-2225728.jpg @WhiskersTheCat People don't think The Agency be like it is, but it do.   Attached File |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:44:46 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with most of that, but Putin is still a bad guy too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The problem with that is that it makes you vulnerable to what Russians like this guy are saying. In America, wrong is right- up is down- bad is good. Our government is corrupt to the core because they have been taken over by the globalists. How do you guys not see this? We have a sitting president who is illegitimate and stole the election, nobody voted for him. We have sitting congressmen and senate who are worth millions yet only make like $100k/year. Parts of NY, CA, IL, ect are being turned into dumpsters and the people that live in those places keep voting those people in? Yeah BS. AGs set up a revolving door for career criminals to start a culture war. Face it, America has been co-opted. It is only going to get worse as CIA and FBI and justice systems turn to wokeness and CRT (as evidenced in their job adverts). Until 2020 gets fixed, there is no future. Alex Jones just threw in the towel and said it is over for America (and he has been fighting the globalists for his whole career). Putin is the only one spewing sense in this f***ed up world. Edit: Adding the American government hates you and has declared war on you. You are deemed a domestic terrorist I agree with most of that, but Putin is still a bad guy too. Not to mention Putin and his KGB buddies are the ones that set the US on this path he cries about. It's amazing how deep the Soviet tentacles run in the American Left. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:46:24 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want a javelin Totally worth the tax stamp. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 1:00:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Amazing. Thank you
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Posted: 1/20/2022 1:02:12 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How are you seeing in the dark? Visible spectrum camera? The fielder units I’m aware of all use thermal, even the cheap ones and the ones that don’t allow for an operator to view what the sensor sees like bonus. And yeah my iPhone prefers uncooked to uncooled. Tell me your actual requirements and I'll tell you what's needed. Until then it's simply "bring me a rock." I already get enough of that from the majcoms. I quite literally have dozens of different fielded systems, ranging from 6.3-6.4 stuff for (j)uons to multibillion dollar acat1 stuff. "Milgrade" remote autonomous fftt can be done incredibly cheaply. What a big boy prime or sbs charges on a CPFF/FFP for that capability is a different topic. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 1:04:03 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So not 300k for a rocket or 200k for a CLU. Has the imaging in the new, cheaper toy improved? The thermal in the jav clu used to be awesome, but it's dated. I have not messed with a newer one. I broke a CLU once though.
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Posted: 1/20/2022 1:24:00 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:I have no idea who that is I replied to, but if you are just swallowing all the pro war propaganda coming out then hey, you do you. We were part of their overthrow of their admittedly pro-Moscow government in 2014? We had Barry's State Department balls deep in that operation. Not my concern though. There is nothing in Ukraine that I am remotely willing to sacrifice anything for, much less ask someone else to go fight there. But I keep hearing the cries of "Russia bad (this is true) and Ukraine good (doubtful) so lets get ready for more foreign warring!" Fuck that. As I watch my southern border collapse and my government embrace lawlessness and Marxism the fate of Ukraine is pretty low on my list of concerns. A solid +1 on this post (and others)! US actions in this AO do NOT make us the good guys in this. And the more people who know/understand that, the better. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 1:26:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Lindsay Graham, Hunter Biden, Jen Psaki, Bill Kristol, etc. - show us your stuff. This your chance to kill evil Russians and defend freedom. Be sure and wear your mask and socially distance on the battle field. And wave their rainbow flags too! |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 1:27:04 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: like the spanish civil war was a testbed for some aspects to blitzkrieg Do you have literature on this? Which battles?.... Seriously curious. Thank you. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 1:34:34 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never got to fire a live round. My class back in the day only had a single live round and I wasn't picked to fire it, oh well. I did carry a training round and CLU at NTC in 2003, which sucked. Reminds me of my time with the DRAGON. Oh! And the idiot who fired the live round missed a static target! 
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Posted: 1/20/2022 1:38:00 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell me your actual requirements and I'll tell you what's needed. Until then it's simply "bring me a rock." I already get enough of that from the majcoms. I quite literally have dozens of different fielded systems, ranging from 6.3-6.4 stuff for (j)uons to multibillion dollar acat1 stuff. "Milgrade" remote autonomous fftt can be done incredibly cheaply. What a big boy prime or sbs charges on a CPFF/FFP for that capability is a different topic. Autonomous after launch or uses directional radio to prevent detection, insensitive to jamming including GPS, all weather capability, effective against ERA equipped T-80/90. Serious question what does that cost? Because working back from contract numbers those systems are still not cheap. Kalashnikov Concern claims to have one as cheap as $6,000 but I’m guessing it doubles and triples with options like…armament. ETA: When I say not cheap I mean people think this is a $450 drone. Which Hajji made work in Mosul but it’s not gonna work for either side in Eastern Europe. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 1:50:51 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any reliable sources to corroborate that? Ukraine: 4 soldiers dead in suspected Russian military mortar attack |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 2:01:12 AM EDT
[#43]
wasn't it at Nellis where they were testing javelins and landed 2 consecutive direct hits on a t-72 sized target at ~3 miles? Which if its true is cool as fuck
has anyone seen the pictures of the Russian t72s with the improvised anti top down atgms? I've been seeing pictures of Russian tanks on the Ukraine border with homemade looking lattice armor and metal cages welded to the top of the tank to hopefully disrupt javelins and other atgms that hit the top of the tank apparently they've also added thermal emitters in place of the snorkel on some tanks to hopefully throw off thermal guided atgms like javelins |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 2:10:45 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that is a clear case, your point is weak. Propaganda is meant to obfuscate. Let me give you a few examples: 2020 election is the most secure and fair election ever. Trump is an Russian asset, as Putin has dirt on him. Foreign power do not need to lift a finger to produce propaganda to influence the American politics. Our own .gov and its propaganda arm, the MSM/social media is doing fine as is. All they need to do is to periodically sprinkle some truth. If that is stirring the pot, then speaking the truth is consider "sowing discontent". Definitely Russian! How do I know? A few years ago I stole 2 of your women. Both make identical mistakes. By the way putin is for putin only and fkk the Russian people. I'm rooting for them to figure it out and throw vlady a ipatiev party. Historians will see what it did there. Time to get rid of rulers and rule yourselves ivan |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 2:15:36 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd fulda her gap. Over 50, but id definitely munch her. But is she boiling a slice of pizza??? By the way I have one of those and I cook my own grub. Will till the day I die. But I love her |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 2:30:16 AM EDT
[#46]
Great thread, thanks Cory.
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Posted: 1/20/2022 2:45:40 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to mention Putin and his KGB buddies are the ones that set the US on this path he cries about. It's amazing how deep the Soviet tentacles run in the American Left. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The problem with that is that it makes you vulnerable to what Russians like this guy are saying. In America, wrong is right- up is down- bad is good. Our government is corrupt to the core because they have been taken over by the globalists. How do you guys not see this? We have a sitting president who is illegitimate and stole the election, nobody voted for him. We have sitting congressmen and senate who are worth millions yet only make like $100k/year. Parts of NY, CA, IL, ect are being turned into dumpsters and the people that live in those places keep voting those people in? Yeah BS. AGs set up a revolving door for career criminals to start a culture war. Face it, America has been co-opted. It is only going to get worse as CIA and FBI and justice systems turn to wokeness and CRT (as evidenced in their job adverts). Until 2020 gets fixed, there is no future. Alex Jones just threw in the towel and said it is over for America (and he has been fighting the globalists for his whole career). Putin is the only one spewing sense in this f***ed up world. Edit: Adding the American government hates you and has declared war on you. You are deemed a domestic terrorist I agree with most of that, but Putin is still a bad guy too. Not to mention Putin and his KGB buddies are the ones that set the US on this path he cries about. It's amazing how deep the Soviet tentacles run in the American Left. That is true. Was a bit before Putins time when they really started their subversive efforts in the US, but all those KGB guys are the same. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:40:36 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Autonomous after launch or uses directional radio to prevent detection, insensitive to jamming including GPS, all weather capability, effective against ERA equipped T-80/90. Serious question what does that cost? Because working back from contract numbers those systems are still not cheap. Kalashnikov Concern claims to have one as cheap as $6,000 but I’m guessing it doubles and triples with options like…armament. ETA: When I say not cheap I mean people think this is a $450 drone. Which Hajji made work in Mosul but it’s not gonna work for either side in Eastern Europe. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tell me your actual requirements and I'll tell you what's needed. Until then it's simply "bring me a rock." I already get enough of that from the majcoms. I quite literally have dozens of different fielded systems, ranging from 6.3-6.4 stuff for (j)uons to multibillion dollar acat1 stuff. "Milgrade" remote autonomous fftt can be done incredibly cheaply. What a big boy prime or sbs charges on a CPFF/FFP for that capability is a different topic. Autonomous after launch or uses directional radio to prevent detection, insensitive to jamming including GPS, all weather capability, effective against ERA equipped T-80/90. Serious question what does that cost? Because working back from contract numbers those systems are still not cheap. Kalashnikov Concern claims to have one as cheap as $6,000 but I’m guessing it doubles and triples with options like…armament. ETA: When I say not cheap I mean people think this is a $450 drone. Which Hajji made work in Mosul but it’s not gonna work for either side in Eastern Europe. So... this has now gone from autonomous targeting, to adding IR capability, to adding a LPI/LPD datalink, to adding AJ GPS, to adding all weather/multispectral, and to top it off the capability to penetrate the equivalent of 15-20in of RHA. Want to add hypersonic capable while you're at it? You keep adding shit, of course it will get stupid expensive. With your latest editions you've basically outlined a 6digit AUR cost. That doesn't even include any of the NRE associated with trying to integrate all that shit together. Likely ratcheting this up to a $70 million dollar EMD program. This is a far, far cry from the initial remote autonomous targeting. If I was a prime, I'd love you. Like 5 contract changes already. Too bad you just Nunn McCurdy breached and got your program killed due to requirements creep and exploding costs. For shits and giggles I'll do some LRU costs, that should actually be fairly close. LPI/LPD link: 40-80k AJ GPS (minimum of 3 element for nulling- l1/l2 on Y code): 40-50k (includes antenna ) SCJ payload (only way to defeat that much RHA equivalent: 20-50k. The liner type is what drives this spread IR: 10k MMW (all weather): 70+k To move all that shit you crammed in there it's now needs a more expensive motor. But let's assume just solid rocket. To keep costs down : 10k I could have given you a completely autonomous system that could do its own targeting and defeat soft targets for under 1k AUR. And in fact that's what I have already done before. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:59:31 AM EDT
[#49]
We started out talking about the kind of drone that would make a difference in a fight between NATO and the Russians so I had expectations about what such a beast could do in that environment. That’s the perspective I had in mind.
Though if the US gets a little rougher the hand grenade on a DJI think is going to be fashionable.
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Posted: 1/20/2022 4:18:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So... this has now gone from autonomous targeting, to adding IR capability, to adding a LPI/LPD datalink, to adding AJ GPS, to adding all weather/multispectral, and to top it off the capability to penetrate the equivalent of 15-20in of RHA. Want to add hypersonic capable while you're at it? You keep adding shit, of course it will get stupid expensive. With your latest editions you've basically outlined a 6digit AUR cost. That doesn't even include any of the NRE associated with trying to integrate all that shit together. Likely ratcheting this up to a $70 million dollar EMD program. This is a far, far cry from the initial remote autonomous targeting. If I was a prime, I'd love you. Like 5 contract changes already. Too bad you just Nunn McCurdy breached and got your program killed due to requirements creep and exploding costs. For shits and giggles I'll do some LRU costs, that should actually be fairly close. LPI/LPD link: 40-80k AJ GPS (minimum of 3 element for nulling- l1/l2 on Y code): 40-50k (includes antenna ) SCJ payload (only way to defeat that much RHA equivalent: 20-50k. The liner type is what drives this spread IR: 10k MMW (all weather): 70+k To move all that shit you crammed in there it's now needs a more expensive motor. But let's assume just solid rocket. To keep costs down : 10k I could have given you a completely autonomous system that could do its own targeting and defeat soft targets for under 1k AUR. And in fact that's what I have already done before. Like this?  Attached File |
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