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Posted: 11/28/2021 9:50:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Green shirt ran up and assaulted an armed man. Black shirt commanded him to vacate the property multiple times to no avail and then armed himself. Green shirt escalated closing the distance while black shirt made no move to advance, he just stood his ground. Green shirt further escalated by making loud verbal threats and causing bodily contact. He then escalated even further by allowing his hand to forcefully contact the firearm. Does black shirt shoot him then? Did he not have the ability and reason to end this right then and there? Maybe, maybe not but he doesn’t. There was either a warning shot or ND during that exchange. He doesn’t shoot him is the result which can be seen in the video. This isn’t me seeing what I want to see - these are the events unfolding and plainly seen in both videos. Green shirt is making good on his threats, though because immediately afterwards he then again further escalates by attempting to wrestle the firearm away. He is making good on his threats. ETA: Green shirt has made the threats and following through. Is there some point black shirt should not have believed him concerning those threats? What moment would have given him the reason not to believe green shirt didn’t mean it? ETAx2: Again, where in the interaction would give black shirt pause to disbelieve green shirt? Look above and read my first statement. Was there a point black shirt could have thought “this guy is just kidding”. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Black shirt had better get used to the idea of prison, because everyone in this thread who thinks he ain't going is wrong. I’m one of those who believes he shouldn’t. Tell me why he should go to prison? He killed a man over a woman. No he didn’t. He shot a man who was engaged in the act of physically attacking him. Would you really have pulled that trigger if that was you? If I were in black shirt’s shoes, I probably would have. I’m not going to allow someone to continue attacking me. If I can stop their attack, I’ll do so. attack, ok. Looked like a high school shoving match to me. I've heard lots of good shoot, bad shoot comments in this thread, but I believe you're the first to make that claim you would pull that trigger.  bro's before hoe's...man. bro's before hoe's... Green shirt ran up and assaulted an armed man. Black shirt commanded him to vacate the property multiple times to no avail and then armed himself. Green shirt escalated closing the distance while black shirt made no move to advance, he just stood his ground. Green shirt further escalated by making loud verbal threats and causing bodily contact. He then escalated even further by allowing his hand to forcefully contact the firearm. Does black shirt shoot him then? Did he not have the ability and reason to end this right then and there? Maybe, maybe not but he doesn’t. There was either a warning shot or ND during that exchange. He doesn’t shoot him is the result which can be seen in the video. This isn’t me seeing what I want to see - these are the events unfolding and plainly seen in both videos. Green shirt is making good on his threats, though because immediately afterwards he then again further escalates by attempting to wrestle the firearm away. He is making good on his threats. ETA: Green shirt has made the threats and following through. Is there some point black shirt should not have believed him concerning those threats? What moment would have given him the reason not to believe green shirt didn’t mean it? ETAx2: Again, where in the interaction would give black shirt pause to disbelieve green shirt? Look above and read my first statement. Was there a point black shirt could have thought “this guy is just kidding”. This. Exactly. He will be no-billed. And I’m ok with it. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 9:56:23 PM EDT
[#2]
You just witnessed a murder. It's as simple as that.
Anybody who can't see that, shouldn't be involved in the conversation. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 10:10:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Grasping at straws. Its obvious the agreed upon time in the divorce was when he showed up. It can be whatever you want when settled. Yep. Mine is 4:30pm. People stating it’s 6pm every time like it’s the law 
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Posted: 11/28/2021 10:15:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: De-escalating and avoiding someone getting killed is the prudent course of action in a civil dispute like this with known parties. Even if you're 100% right and justified in your position it would be smart to walk off, let things cool down, and sort it out later. No sense in shooting someone, or getting shot, when you can avoid it easily. The dude coming out with the PCC in that context was a fucking moron. The father getting in his face and turning it physical was equally stupid and he got himself killed. Even if you're right and the other person is wrong, attacking an armed dude isn't likely going to turn out well. Denying visitation in Texas is a criminal offense. Jailable criminal offense. Not civil. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 10:18:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol, excellent Analysis of what didn’t happen Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Dad comes to get son. Wife, a judge, thinks she is above the law and doesn’t have sim ready for pick up. Man gets angry, another man shoots him in the face. Judge gets her way and no more dad issues. Great outcome for the kid. Fuck that woman. lol, excellent Analysis of what didn’t happen He did get the “fuck that woman” part right though. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 10:21:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Denying visitation in Texas is a criminal offense. Jailable criminal offense. Not civil. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 10:48:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because a parent refusing to turn over a child to “baby daddy/mommy” is a civil issue and not kidnapping……. Read the statue Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: People using words and terms they don't understand. What you "think" and what is illegal in your neck of the woods may not be applicable here. Section 9.41 of the Texas Penal Code Texas Penal Code Sec. 20.03 Kidnapping I'd like to have more info, but I'm inclined to believe he will easily walk. Why do you believe that is not kidnapping? Because a parent refusing to turn over a child to “baby daddy/mommy” is a civil issue and not kidnapping……. Read the statue Not kidnapping, but not civil either. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 10:48:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Denying visitation in Texas is a criminal offense. Jailable criminal offense. Not civil. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: De-escalating and avoiding someone getting killed is the prudent course of action in a civil dispute like this with known parties. Even if you're 100% right and justified in your position it would be smart to walk off, let things cool down, and sort it out later. No sense in shooting someone, or getting shot, when you can avoid it easily. The dude coming out with the PCC in that context was a fucking moron. The father getting in his face and turning it physical was equally stupid and he got himself killed. Even if you're right and the other person is wrong, attacking an armed dude isn't likely going to turn out well. Denying visitation in Texas is a criminal offense. Jailable criminal offense. Not civil. Interesting. I still would pursue other remedies than going hands-on with an armed man, which as we can see may turn out poorly. As much as I fall into the avoid inviting the man into your life camp, I think I would have invited him if I were on either side at various points, and avoided any physical confrontation. Black shirt? Call and report trespassing, stay inside and cover girlfriend in case he attacks. Green shirt? Walk back to the truck when black shirt brings out the blaster and report an armed fellow interfering in your custody issue. Instead you have two morons that just kept ramping it up. Rutting bucks for all the does on hand, as evidenced by the chest bumping and black shirt trying to look taller. I'm not sure criminal charges will help things, but I hope black shirt realizes how badly he fucked up and won't do something so stupid in the future presented the opportunity. Obviously green shirt won't go hands on with an armed man again. 
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:03:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Good Lawgic is about to cover this:
 Final Word on Carruthers: Potential Surprise Appearances from LawTube |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:04:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe but eyeballing reference looks like something around 15’ to my untrained eye. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's maybe 15 or so feet between the two when the shots centered on green shirt occurred. That can be covered in maybe a second from a stand still. Again, watch 00:11 to 00:12 seconds of the inside video. ETA: Black shirt had to stop (momentum), turn around 180 degrees, and raised his firearm on green shirt. Approximately one second for that to happen. *He is a smaller? guy, so it could be even closer. Maybe but eyeballing reference looks like something around 15’ to my untrained eye. There’s no way that is five or six feet. Five or six feet is reach out and touch you distance. He’s past the bush in the picture from the truck. My normal step length is 26 inches, and I’m a manlet. He’s about 5 or 6 yards like SIASL is saying.  
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:06:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Lol you can tell who the divorcees are in this thread.
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:11:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Diff Is mine was spell check on phone ..your shits actually on purpose. You actually speak like that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My biggest indicator of a lack of intelligence is when y’all pet your peaces. Diff Is mine was spell check on phone ..your shits actually on purpose. You actually speak like that. “A lack of attention to detail is the hallmark of mediocrity.” Jim McIngvale |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:15:03 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This will all be vitally important to the case. As will the DA’s office. Obviously how they handle this in front the Grand Jury will decide if charges are even brought, but if they are, this will point to potential provocation and whether or not the dead guy was trespassing. You can’t hide a kid and thereby provoke a confrontation, claim trespass (if the guy was in the right place at the right time) and then shoot the guy dead. You can’t isolate the dead guy grabbing at the gun the totality of the circumstances. Then there is the warning shot. Does Texas law specifically allow for warning shots? If not, prosecutor will say dead guy grabbed at the gun in self defense from the shooting at his foot…and likely be successful with that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I was reading some of the news articles. They are indicating the shooting was around 4:20PM. On the video, the deceased is saying he was supposed to pick up have his son at 3:15pm. I am interested to see what transpired over that hour. Sounds like he went to grandma's house looking for the kid. He threatened to subpoena grandma when he drags them into court. It's unclear what the original pickup point was supposed to be, but the kid apparently wasn't at grandma's and wasn't where dad died, and dad was pissed at the kid apparently being hidden from him. He acts like it's the 87th step in an ongoing campaign to fuck with him. And I didn't hear anybody telling him he was wrong in thinking that. This will all be vitally important to the case. As will the DA’s office. Obviously how they handle this in front the Grand Jury will decide if charges are even brought, but if they are, this will point to potential provocation and whether or not the dead guy was trespassing. You can’t hide a kid and thereby provoke a confrontation, claim trespass (if the guy was in the right place at the right time) and then shoot the guy dead. You can’t isolate the dead guy grabbing at the gun the totality of the circumstances. Then there is the warning shot. Does Texas law specifically allow for warning shots? If not, prosecutor will say dead guy grabbed at the gun in self defense from the shooting at his foot…and likely be successful with that. Very solid post. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:18:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Green shirt and Huber both failed in understanding how to control a long gun.
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:19:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's no way that is five or six feet. Five or six feet is reach out and touch you distance. He's past the bush in the picture from the truck. My normal step length is 26 inches, and I'm a manlet. He's about 5 or 6 yards like SIASL is saying. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/483730/0CF287DB-8643-4A43-85FB-9371ED840F71-2185039.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/483730/4A2595AC-53A0-463C-9E78-C25EF582D8BA-2184280.png Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's maybe 15 or so feet between the two when the shots centered on green shirt occurred. That can be covered in maybe a second from a stand still. Again, watch 00:11 to 00:12 seconds of the inside video. ETA: Black shirt had to stop (momentum), turn around 180 degrees, and raised his firearm on green shirt. Approximately one second for that to happen. *He is a smaller? guy, so it could be even closer. Maybe but eyeballing reference looks like something around 15' to my untrained eye. There's no way that is five or six feet. Five or six feet is reach out and touch you distance. He's past the bush in the picture from the truck. My normal step length is 26 inches, and I'm a manlet. He's about 5 or 6 yards like SIASL is saying. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/483730/0CF287DB-8643-4A43-85FB-9371ED840F71-2185039.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/483730/4A2595AC-53A0-463C-9E78-C25EF582D8BA-2184280.png  |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:22:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Absolutely. And a reminder to RECORD EVERYTHING AND TREAT ALL PHONE CONVERSATIONS AS IF YOU ARE BEING RECORDED. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sounded like it was a parental kidnapping. Dad (dead guy) wanted his kid, he wasn't trying to start shit to start shit My ex used to pull shit like this all of the time. I once flew from California to Toronto to see my daughter and she decided to send her off to summer camp without telling me. I never got mad or yelled at her for all of the mean stunts she pulled. It wasn't worth giving her ammunition for the man-hating family courts. The victim should have walked away once the rifle came out. He would have had a good case for his child being in a dangerous environment. Absolutely. And a reminder to RECORD EVERYTHING AND TREAT ALL PHONE CONVERSATIONS AS IF YOU ARE BEING RECORDED. Which is illegal ?? |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:26:31 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:28:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dinner at the short guy household 2 years from now Short guy: Billy you shouldn’t have your elbows on the table Mommy: listen to your new father Billy Billy:*under breath* you shouldn’t turn annoying situations into deadly ones by letting your small mans disease get the better of you Mommy: Billy apologize!! Billy: no one was as guilt as you were mom  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:32:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which is illegal ?? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sounded like it was a parental kidnapping. Dad (dead guy) wanted his kid, he wasn't trying to start shit to start shit My ex used to pull shit like this all of the time. I once flew from California to Toronto to see my daughter and she decided to send her off to summer camp without telling me. I never got mad or yelled at her for all of the mean stunts she pulled. It wasn't worth giving her ammunition for the man-hating family courts. The victim should have walked away once the rifle came out. He would have had a good case for his child being in a dangerous environment. Absolutely. And a reminder to RECORD EVERYTHING AND TREAT ALL PHONE CONVERSATIONS AS IF YOU ARE BEING RECORDED. Which is illegal ?? It is NOT illegal to record a phone call in Texas as long as ONE Party knows the conversation is being recorded. Be it the Caller or the Callee... Just can't have a recording where NEITHER party knows it's being recorded without a court order.  |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:33:26 PM EDT
[#20]
What kind of shitty weapon was used?
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:33:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You just witnessed a murder. It's as simple as that. Anybody who can't see that, shouldn't be involved in the conversation. so, can I assume that trespassing and being aggressive are an OK act to you? Maybe, just maybe, that if people were to stop being so brazen they wouldn't need to be murdered. Locking this guy up for this would send a clear cut message to most people, that being a total fucking vile person is OK. Once you allow folks to get away with this shit, they always escalate their behavior. Look at wife beaters and other violent criminals. Crime breeds crime. I will assume that both of these individuals were pretty much law abiding folks. We also know that the Courts and Legal System injected themselves into this situation as that seems to be the main reason why these people are so pissed off. I wont say anything about the two in this case, and on this subject. I can completely relate to the anger. Does not excuse the behavior. There should be no court case or trail on this whatsoever. Once folks see that doing shit like trespassing can get you dead, they will just call the cops to come help. Which is what taxes are used for. The Kyle Rittenhouse Trail barely showed folks this very idea. Doing criminal shit, gets you treated like a criminal. A mass majority of people should see this and be OK with it. How much better would life be, if people acted like they had some sense. If green shirt dude would have just left when ORDERED to leave, this shit would not even be an issue. I can understand why this is such an unrealistic expectation.  |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:40:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Denying visitation in Texas is a criminal offense. Jailable criminal offense. Not civil. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: De-escalating and avoiding someone getting killed is the prudent course of action in a civil dispute like this with known parties. Even if you're 100% right and justified in your position it would be smart to walk off, let things cool down, and sort it out later. No sense in shooting someone, or getting shot, when you can avoid it easily. The dude coming out with the PCC in that context was a fucking moron. The father getting in his face and turning it physical was equally stupid and he got himself killed. Even if you're right and the other person is wrong, attacking an armed dude isn't likely going to turn out well. Denying visitation in Texas is a criminal offense. Jailable criminal offense. Not civil. Not until a Judge Rules on it. That happens in... ... ... Civil (Family) Court. If a parent is violating the Court Custody Orders - the other party needs to go before the Judge in Court to present the facts (Documented) & then the Judge CAN rule to punish the offender in several different ways. Fines are typical, Arrest if it continues or fines are not paid. If other party refuses to show to present their case (misses hearings) or continues to violate the Custody Order, the Judge can issue a Arrest Warrant. However, until their IS a Arrest Warrant, no cop or deputy is going to play Perry Mason and insert himself in the matter unless the life or physical welfare of the child are at imminent risk. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:48:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At what point in those last moments can anyone say black shirt could definitively say to himself green shirt decided to halt his attack? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There’s maybe 15 or so feet between the two when the shots centered on green shirt occurred. That can be covered in maybe a second from a stand still. Again, watch 00:11 to 00:12 seconds of the inside video. We can't argue what "might have" happened. We can only analyze what did happen. Green shirt, unarmed, had just been shot at. He flung the threat to a distance. No evidence of any pursuit by green shirt. If he had pursued, it's a completely different story. Right now, bad shoot. At what point in those last moments can anyone say black shirt could definitively say to himself green shirt decided to halt his attack? You're not using the relevant legal term for legitimate self-defense: Imminent threat. Do you believe that Black shirt was under an imminent threat from Green shirt at the moment that he used deadly force? I can't see the imminent threat. Black had time to turn, see Green, properly aim, and fire. It wasn't a lot of time, and yet it is. He could see Green was at a considerable distance. And, in my observation, literally standing on a porch. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:48:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryI’m stealing that |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:52:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which is illegal ?? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sounded like it was a parental kidnapping. Dad (dead guy) wanted his kid, he wasn't trying to start shit to start shit My ex used to pull shit like this all of the time. I once flew from California to Toronto to see my daughter and she decided to send her off to summer camp without telling me. I never got mad or yelled at her for all of the mean stunts she pulled. It wasn't worth giving her ammunition for the man-hating family courts. The victim should have walked away once the rifle came out. He would have had a good case for his child being in a dangerous environment. Absolutely. And a reminder to RECORD EVERYTHING AND TREAT ALL PHONE CONVERSATIONS AS IF YOU ARE BEING RECORDED. Which is illegal ?? It depends. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:53:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which is illegal ?? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sounded like it was a parental kidnapping. Dad (dead guy) wanted his kid, he wasn't trying to start shit to start shit My ex used to pull shit like this all of the time. I once flew from California to Toronto to see my daughter and she decided to send her off to summer camp without telling me. I never got mad or yelled at her for all of the mean stunts she pulled. It wasn't worth giving her ammunition for the man-hating family courts. The victim should have walked away once the rifle came out. He would have had a good case for his child being in a dangerous environment. Absolutely. And a reminder to RECORD EVERYTHING AND TREAT ALL PHONE CONVERSATIONS AS IF YOU ARE BEING RECORDED. Which is illegal ?? False: Texas is a “one-party consent to recording” state, which means only one party within a conversation has to consent to recording it. In other words, you can decide to record your own “wire, oral, or electronic” conversations with another party without telling them directly and without breaking the law – in most situations. There are some exceptions and sidenotes you should know. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:55:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're not using the relevant legal term for legitimate self-defense: Imminent threat. Do you believe that Black shirt was under an imminent threat from Green shirt at the moment that he used deadly force? I can't see the imminent threat. Black had time to turn, see Green, properly aim, and fire. It wasn't a lot of time, and yet it is. He could see Green was at a considerable distance. And, in my observation, literally standing on a porch. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's maybe 15 or so feet between the two when the shots centered on green shirt occurred. That can be covered in maybe a second from a stand still. Again, watch 00:11 to 00:12 seconds of the inside video. We can't argue what "might have" happened. We can only analyze what did happen. Green shirt, unarmed, had just been shot at. He flung the threat to a distance. No evidence of any pursuit by green shirt. If he had pursued, it's a completely different story. Right now, bad shoot. At what point in those last moments can anyone say black shirt could definitively say to himself green shirt decided to halt his attack? You're not using the relevant legal term for legitimate self-defense: Imminent threat. Do you believe that Black shirt was under an imminent threat from Green shirt at the moment that he used deadly force? I can't see the imminent threat. Black had time to turn, see Green, properly aim, and fire. It wasn't a lot of time, and yet it is. He could see Green was at a considerable distance. And, in my observation, literally standing on a porch. Is that belief reasonable? |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:58:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so, can I assume that trespassing and being aggressive are an OK act to you? Maybe, just maybe, that if people were to stop being so brazen they wouldn't need to be murdered. Locking this guy up for this would send a clear cut message to most people, that being a total fucking vile person is OK. Once you allow folks to get away with this shit, they always escalate their behavior. Look at wife beaters and other violent criminals. Crime breeds crime. I will assume that both of these individuals were pretty much law abiding folks. We also know that the Courts and Legal System injected themselves into this situation as that seems to be the main reason why these people are so pissed off. I wont say anything about the two in this case, and on this subject. I can completely relate to the anger. Does not excuse the behavior. There should be no court case or trail on this whatsoever. Once folks see that doing shit like trespassing can get you dead, they will just call the cops to come help. Which is what taxes are used for. The Kyle Rittenhouse Trail barely showed folks this very idea. Doing criminal shit, gets you treated like a criminal. A mass majority of people should see this and be OK with it. How much better would life be, if people acted like they had some sense. If green shirt dude would have just left when ORDERED to leave, this shit would not even be an issue. I can understand why this is such an unrealistic expectation. I seriously can’t comprehend how some of you pussies get through life. The dead guy wasn’t trespassing, he was there to pick up his kid. Period. The bitch starts playing fukfuk games and tempers flare. There was no life or death situation until that short faggot got a gun and started shooting at dead guys feet. In this situation it is not reasonable to expect the words “get off my property” to have some magical effect. This is some drama BS brought about by the occupants of the house. You dont get to stir the pot, escalate it and the say “ get off my property, no take backs and your dead if you don’t”. The guy was there to get his kid. This wasn’t some unknown crackhead running up on them from a dark alley. Harsh words and flared tempers are part of divorce and custody problems. Period. What kind of fucking small dick short man faggot thinks that it’s okay to murder someone over this shit? Just because he whispered the magical phrase “get off my property”? Im all for stand your ground….but against evil people looking evil shit, not some dad who is irate about his son not being where he is supposed to be. A family has been destroyed. What the fuck is wrong with you people? Honestly, im guessing that the “its ok to murder people if i whisper the magic phrase first” crowd stand about 5 foot 6 inches and are scarred of life. Of course you faggots want an easy button to kill people.. |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:00:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I seriously can’t comprehend how some of you pussies get through life. Th The bitch starts playing fukfuk games and tempers flare. There was no life or death situation until that short faggot got a gun and started shooting at dead guys feet. In this situation it is not reasonable to expect the words “get off my property” to have some magical effect. This is some drama BS brought about by the occupants of the house. You dont get to stir the pot, escalate it and the say “ get off my property, no take backs and your dead if you don’t”. The guy was there to get his kid. This wasn’t some unknown crackhead running up on them from a dark alley. Harsh words and flared tempers are part of divorce and custody problems. Period. What kind of fucking small dick short man faggot thinks that it’s okay to murder someone over this shit? Just because he whispered the magical phrase “get off my property”? Im all for stand your ground….but against evil people looking evil shit, not some dad who is irate about his son not being where he is supposed to be. A family has been destroyed. What the fuck is wrong with you people? Honestly, im guessing that the “its ok to murder people if i whisper the magic phrase first” crowd stand about 5 foot 6 inches and are scarred of life. Of course you faggots want an easy button to kill people.. |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:03:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're not using the relevant legal term for legitimate self-defense: Imminent threat. Do you believe that Black shirt was under an imminent threat from Green shirt at the moment that he used deadly force? I can't see the imminent threat. Black had time to turn, see Green, properly aim, and fire. It wasn't a lot of time, and yet it is. He could see Green was at a considerable distance. And, in my observation, literally standing on a porch. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There’s maybe 15 or so feet between the two when the shots centered on green shirt occurred. That can be covered in maybe a second from a stand still. Again, watch 00:11 to 00:12 seconds of the inside video. We can't argue what "might have" happened. We can only analyze what did happen. Green shirt, unarmed, had just been shot at. He flung the threat to a distance. No evidence of any pursuit by green shirt. If he had pursued, it's a completely different story. Right now, bad shoot. At what point in those last moments can anyone say black shirt could definitively say to himself green shirt decided to halt his attack? You're not using the relevant legal term for legitimate self-defense: Imminent threat. Do you believe that Black shirt was under an imminent threat from Green shirt at the moment that he used deadly force? I can't see the imminent threat. Black had time to turn, see Green, properly aim, and fire. It wasn't a lot of time, and yet it is. He could see Green was at a considerable distance. And, in my observation, literally standing on a porch. You’re asking the wrong person that question. Does black shirt believe he was under imminent threat the moment he used deadly force? I can say “No” while you may say “Yes”. Considering the outcome I believe it safe to say he felt he was under imminent threat. |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:05:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I seriously can’t comprehend how some of you pussies get through life. The dead guy wasn’t trespassing, he was there to pick up his kid. Period. The bitch starts playing fukfuk games and tempers flare. There was no life or death situation until that short faggot got a gun and started shooting at dead guys feet. In this situation it is not reasonable to expect the words “get off my property” to have some magical effect. This is some drama BS brought about by the occupants of the house. You dont get to stir the pot, escalate it and the say “ get off my property, no take backs and your dead if you don’t”. The guy was there to get his kid. This wasn’t some unknown crackhead running up on them from a dark alley. Harsh words and flared tempers are part of divorce and custody problems. Period. What kind of fucking small dick short man faggot thinks that it’s okay to murder someone over this shit? Just because he whispered the magical phrase “get off my property”? Im all for stand your ground….but against evil people looking evil shit, not some dad who is irate about his son not being where he is supposed to be. A family has been destroyed. What the fuck is wrong with you people? Honestly, im guessing that the “its ok to murder people if i whisper the magic phrase first” crowd stand about 5 foot 6 inches and are scarred of life. Of course you faggots want an easy button to kill people.. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: so, can I assume that trespassing and being aggressive are an OK act to you? Maybe, just maybe, that if people were to stop being so brazen they wouldn't need to be murdered. Locking this guy up for this would send a clear cut message to most people, that being a total fucking vile person is OK. Once you allow folks to get away with this shit, they always escalate their behavior. Look at wife beaters and other violent criminals. Crime breeds crime. I will assume that both of these individuals were pretty much law abiding folks. We also know that the Courts and Legal System injected themselves into this situation as that seems to be the main reason why these people are so pissed off. I wont say anything about the two in this case, and on this subject. I can completely relate to the anger. Does not excuse the behavior. There should be no court case or trail on this whatsoever. Once folks see that doing shit like trespassing can get you dead, they will just call the cops to come help. Which is what taxes are used for. The Kyle Rittenhouse Trail barely showed folks this very idea. Doing criminal shit, gets you treated like a criminal. A mass majority of people should see this and be OK with it. How much better would life be, if people acted like they had some sense. If green shirt dude would have just left when ORDERED to leave, this shit would not even be an issue. I can understand why this is such an unrealistic expectation. I seriously can’t comprehend how some of you pussies get through life. The dead guy wasn’t trespassing, he was there to pick up his kid. Period. The bitch starts playing fukfuk games and tempers flare. There was no life or death situation until that short faggot got a gun and started shooting at dead guys feet. In this situation it is not reasonable to expect the words “get off my property” to have some magical effect. This is some drama BS brought about by the occupants of the house. You dont get to stir the pot, escalate it and the say “ get off my property, no take backs and your dead if you don’t”. The guy was there to get his kid. This wasn’t some unknown crackhead running up on them from a dark alley. Harsh words and flared tempers are part of divorce and custody problems. Period. What kind of fucking small dick short man faggot thinks that it’s okay to murder someone over this shit? Just because he whispered the magical phrase “get off my property”? Im all for stand your ground….but against evil people looking evil shit, not some dad who is irate about his son not being where he is supposed to be. A family has been destroyed. What the fuck is wrong with you people? Honestly, im guessing that the “its ok to murder people if i whisper the magic phrase first” crowd stand about 5 foot 6 inches and are scarred of life. Of course you faggots want an easy button to kill people.. Pretty much this. The mentality of a lot of gun owners on this website is scary. |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:06:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so, can I assume that trespassing and being aggressive are an OK act to you? How much better would life be, if people acted like they had some sense. If green shirt dude would have just left when ORDERED to leave, this shit would not even be an issue. "If" can go on all day. If the ex-wife had the kid ready, this would not even be an issue. Green was there to pick up his kid. He had a reasonable expectation to do that. There was massive escalation on both sides. If you think it's reasonable for a person to interject themselves into a child custody dispute, and use deadly force by simply declaring "trespassing," you are in the minority in civilized society. |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:09:32 AM EDT
[#33]
Nvm
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:13:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re asking the wrong person that question. Does black shirt believe he was under imminent threat the moment he used deadly force? I can say “No” while you may say “Yes”. Considering the outcome I believe it safe to say he felt he was under imminent threat. That's backwards logic. Your argument is because he pulled the trigger, he felt endangered. In that case, everything is legitimate self-defense (cue the South Park "He's coming right for us!") Your job as a jury member (on arfcom ) is to determine if that was a reasonable thought/action at the time.Considering this is now 43 pages, it's obviously up for debate 
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:13:59 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty much this. The mentality of a lot of gun owners on this website is scary. But But ... Muh "Castle"!! I predict that Black Shirt IS going to be "Tenderly Loved" by the Legal System with all the huge expense & jeopardy that entails. I don't see "Murder", but it could easily be "Manslaughter" for those two killing shots, and definitely "Deadly Conduct + Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon" on that stupid "Warning Shot". (Hint - in Texas there are no legal "Warning Shots" period! that's THREE FELONIES right there without having to prove Murder ... and should Black Shirt be somehow be found innocent (doubtful) at trial, he's going to be out $250,000 to $500,000 by the time it's over. Ouch!! BIGGER_HAMMER 
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:19:41 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's backwards logic. Your argument is because he pulled the trigger, he felt endangered. In that case, everything is legitimate self-defense (cue the South Park "He's coming right for us!") Your job as a jury member (on arfcom ) is to determine if that was a reasonable thought/action at the time.Considering this is now 43 pages, it's obviously up for debate Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You’re asking the wrong person that question. Does black shirt believe he was under imminent threat the moment he used deadly force? I can say “No” while you may say “Yes”. Considering the outcome I believe it safe to say he felt he was under imminent threat. That's backwards logic. Your argument is because he pulled the trigger, he felt endangered. In that case, everything is legitimate self-defense (cue the South Park "He's coming right for us!") Your job as a jury member (on arfcom ) is to determine if that was a reasonable thought/action at the time.Considering this is now 43 pages, it's obviously up for debate I’ve already stated I believe it was reasonable for black shirt to believe himself in danger and facing an imminent threat. Every action taken by green shirt escalated into a higher threat level. What indicator(s) are there to allow black shirt green shirt isn’t going to continue escalation? |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:20:52 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "If" can go on all day. If the ex-wife had the kid ready, this would not even be an issue. Green was there to pick up his kid. He had a reasonable expectation to do that. There was massive escalation on both sides. If you think it's reasonable for a person to interject themselves into a child custody dispute, and use deadly force by simply declaring "trespassing," you are in the minority in civilized society. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: so, can I assume that trespassing and being aggressive are an OK act to you? How much better would life be, if people acted like they had some sense. If green shirt dude would have just left when ORDERED to leave, this shit would not even be an issue. "If" can go on all day. If the ex-wife had the kid ready, this would not even be an issue. Green was there to pick up his kid. He had a reasonable expectation to do that. There was massive escalation on both sides. If you think it's reasonable for a person to interject themselves into a child custody dispute, and use deadly force by simply declaring "trespassing," you are in the minority in civilized society. I will tell you like this. ME? I would have left once the dude told me to leave his property, thats how in the minority I am. Common fucking sense. I have left many of place pissed of so bad I wanted to beat the fuck out of someone. Being the civilized person I am, I just calmly left the place I was at. There was ZERO benefit to getting all aggressive with someone. Whatever happened years ago and someone busted a nut, is not all that important in relation to the last few minutes of that life altering event. On either side and up or down. You can theow "what if...." all day long, but those last few decisions from two people sparked the very outcome. If you and I are CCW'ing and the owner of the property asked us to leave, even though we have a legal right to carry, we fucking leave or face some time with LEO. We would be charged with, you guessed it trespassing. A resident of property asks you to leave, if you refuse, you are trespassing. PERIOD. Does this mean you should be shot? No, but, sticking around and acting aggressive is nowhere near acceptable behavior for any majority or minority. Reading the articles (and I dont really trust the media) there is some history that was not a nice one. How much is true? I dont know, but evidently enough where shit hit the fan. Again, idiots acting like fucktards. Here we are. If this mentality and attitude on my part is wrong or in the minority, then so be it. I am a better person for being civil until it is time I am fed the fuck up to an aggressive situation. I will take that title as a badge of honor. I will die knowing I am good person. |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:21:13 AM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:28:23 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryBut with the video everyone can see what happened, and it doesn't look good. They didn't arrest the defendants in the Arbery case until the video went viral. Same thing will happen here. Of course the flip side Rittenhouse would be in prison if it weren't for that video. Still, all things considered I'd rather be the only surviving witness to a DGU than have my actions recorded and spread all over the world. |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:43:55 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IF this is true, it's going to knock a lot of wind out of the sails of the ''he's trespassing so I can shoot him'' posters. Even if he is shacked up with the soon to be ex of green shirt, does an ''invited guest'' enjoy the same legal rights as the property owner? And if the property owner [who's name is on the deed will be important] is on his own property, black shirt isn't in a very good legal position. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This came in on Branca's blog from a LOSD member. His name is on the blog post, but i will not enter it here. Content below: "I think Andrew missed the most important factor in this case. The Shooter does not live at this property and does not own this property. The shooter is married to a judge. This property belongs to the father of the child, and the mother and child live on the property. The mother is violating the divorce agreement by refusing to turn over the child at the court agreed-upon time 3 PM on this property The father has a divorce agreement ratified by the court that states he’s allowed to be on his own property at 3 PM to pick up the child. Shooter is illegally interfering with a court ordered agreement. He’s committing one of several crimes by trying to trespass the father. The father verbally asserts his legal rights. The shooter leaves a verbal argument goes to a place of safety and instead of calling the police, returns with a gun. He then commits further crimes by initiating a deadly force attack of the father by shooting the warning shot. Warning shots are completely illegal in Texas. Responding to a non-deadly force attack with deadly force is also illegal in Texas. The father has every right to respond to the deadly force warning shot attack with his own deadly force attack. I am certain that this guy’s wife, the judge, would love the local authorities to prosecute him especially as he’s cheating on her with this man’s ex-wife. I am certain Texas going to throw the book at him." Does this change any minds? IF this is true, it's going to knock a lot of wind out of the sails of the ''he's trespassing so I can shoot him'' posters. Even if he is shacked up with the soon to be ex of green shirt, does an ''invited guest'' enjoy the same legal rights as the property owner? And if the property owner [who's name is on the deed will be important] is on his own property, black shirt isn't in a very good legal position. If true, my sails are flat. The complication is, if the ex lives there with black shirt, doesnt he default to agent of the property? If so, he does have the same rights as property owner including trespassing someone off the property and using deadly force?!?! |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:48:20 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve already stated I believe it was reasonable for black shirt to believe himself in danger and facing an imminent threat. Every action taken by green shirt escalated into a higher threat level. What indicator(s) are there to allow black shirt green shirt isn’t going to continue escalation? Indicators: Green shirt, unarmed, standing several yards away on the porch. Black shirt aiming a firearm directly at him. Black shirt had every single advantage at that moment. It was his choice how it ended. At that moment, everyone could have regained their composure and walked away. Instead, Black immediately decided to take full advantage of gaining the upper hand, and he dispatched Green shirt to the afterlife. That's why many in this thread, including LEO, think this was not a 100% justified killing. But clearly, opinions vary. ETA: Ongoing lawyer discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veU5mZZku5c |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 12:52:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we have the address we could google earth it. maybe https://i.imgur.com/hqCf7CH.gif Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's no way that is five or six feet. Five or six feet is reach out and touch you distance. He's past the bush in the picture from the truck. My normal step length is 26 inches, and I'm a manlet. He's about 5 or 6 yards like SIASL is saying. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/483730/0CF287DB-8643-4A43-85FB-9371ED840F71-2185039.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/483730/4A2595AC-53A0-463C-9E78-C25EF582D8BA-2184280.png If we have the address we could google earth it. maybe https://i.imgur.com/hqCf7CH.gif According to google earth, the distance is 10*+- feet. So, 9+- feet guesstimate. GE distance is not accurate*, but it should be close enough. |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 1:04:23 AM EDT
[#43]
Bad shoot....
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Posted: 11/29/2021 1:12:56 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Indicators: Green shirt, unarmed, standing several yards away on the porch. Black shirt aiming a firearm directly at him. Black shirt had every single advantage at that moment. It was his choice how it ended. At that moment, everyone could have regained their composure and walked away. Instead, Black immediately decided to take full advantage of gaining the upper hand, and he dispatched Green shirt to the afterlife. That's why many in this thread, including LEO, think this was not a 100% justified killing. But clearly, opinions vary. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’ve already stated I believe it was reasonable for black shirt to believe himself in danger and facing an imminent threat. Every action taken by green shirt escalated into a higher threat level. What indicator(s) are there to allow black shirt green shirt isn’t going to continue escalation? Indicators: Green shirt, unarmed, standing several yards away on the porch. Black shirt aiming a firearm directly at him. Black shirt had every single advantage at that moment. It was his choice how it ended. At that moment, everyone could have regained their composure and walked away. Instead, Black immediately decided to take full advantage of gaining the upper hand, and he dispatched Green shirt to the afterlife. That's why many in this thread, including LEO, think this was not a 100% justified killing. But clearly, opinions vary. We’re talking about events that are happening in seconds, broken down into one second after another. Is black shirt expected to be able to parse a second into tenths while being attacked? We are talking about twitch reflexes, reaction time to a stimulant. (there’s a better word for that, just on the tip of my tongue but is escaping me). If green shirt had done anything purposeful, ANYTHING, that showed his intent to halt his attack, that would be different. Your given indicators aren’t indicators at all. There’s nothing purposeful done by green shirt to indicate his intent. Did green shirt say anything to indicate his intent to deescalate? If he did, I didn’t hear it. ETA: Up to the point where black shirt sends two rounds into green shirt, every action made by green shirt indicated escalation. When exactly was black shirt supposed to know any intent by green shirt to deescalate? There were no indicators at all. |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 1:13:21 AM EDT
[#45]
With a good enough attorney, he’ll get off.
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Posted: 11/29/2021 1:17:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I seriously can’t comprehend how some of you pussies get through life. The dead guy wasn’t trespassing, he was there to pick up his kid. Period. The bitch starts playing fukfuk games and tempers flare. There was no life or death situation until that short faggot got a gun and started shooting at dead guys feet. In this situation it is not reasonable to expect the words “get off my property” to have some magical effect. This is some drama BS brought about by the occupants of the house. You dont get to stir the pot, escalate it and the say “ get off my property, no take backs and your dead if you don’t”. The guy was there to get his kid. This wasn’t some unknown crackhead running up on them from a dark alley. Harsh words and flared tempers are part of divorce and custody problems. Period. What kind of fucking small dick short man faggot thinks that it’s okay to murder someone over this shit? Just because he whispered the magical phrase “get off my property”? Im all for stand your ground….but against evil people looking evil shit, not some dad who is irate about his son not being where he is supposed to be. A family has been destroyed. What the fuck is wrong with you people? Honestly, im guessing that the “its ok to murder people if i whisper the magic phrase first” crowd stand about 5 foot 6 inches and are scarred of life. Of course you faggots want an easy button to kill people.. 
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Posted: 11/29/2021 1:38:49 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We’re talking about events that are happening in seconds, broken down into one second after another. Is black shirt expected to be able to parse a second into tenths while being attacked? We are talking about twitch reflexes, reaction time to a stimulant. (there’s a better word for that, just on the tip of my tongue but is escaping me). If green shirt had done anything purposeful, ANYTHING, that showed his intent to halt his attack, that would be different. Your given indicators aren’t indicators at all. There’s nothing purposeful done by green shirt to indicate his intent. Did green shirt say anything to indicate his intent to deescalate? If he did, I didn’t hear it. ETA: Up to the point where black shirt sends two rounds into green shirt, every action made by green shirt indicated escalation. When exactly was black shirt supposed to know any intent by green shirt to deescalate? There were no indicators at all. Well, we simply disagree. The indicator I provided to you is that Green shirt is literally standing on a porch. He's several yards away. He's unarmed. Black shirt has to be under a reasonably perceived imminent threat to have justifiable self-defense. This is a life and death decision. The perception of many, including lawyers talking on youtube right now, is that the deadly shot was in anger, more than actual self-defense. If you kill someone, YES, your actions will be parsed down to the fraction of a second. The exact same parsing was done in the Rittenhouse shooting. For what it's worth, Kyle R. had outstanding trigger discipline, in a much more chaotic environment, compared to this Kyle. |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 1:42:29 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Denying visitation in Texas is a criminal offense. Jailable criminal offense. Not civil. The kid wasn’t there. Now what are you going to do boss? Hint: you file a motion with the judge in family court and the judge makes the determination as to what to do. |
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Posted: 11/29/2021 1:44:04 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol you can tell who the divorcees are in this thread.  no kidding.
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Posted: 11/29/2021 1:45:19 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which is illegal ?? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sounded like it was a parental kidnapping. Dad (dead guy) wanted his kid, he wasn't trying to start shit to start shit My ex used to pull shit like this all of the time. I once flew from California to Toronto to see my daughter and she decided to send her off to summer camp without telling me. I never got mad or yelled at her for all of the mean stunts she pulled. It wasn't worth giving her ammunition for the man-hating family courts. The victim should have walked away once the rifle came out. He would have had a good case for his child being in a dangerous environment. Absolutely. And a reminder to RECORD EVERYTHING AND TREAT ALL PHONE CONVERSATIONS AS IF YOU ARE BEING RECORDED. Which is illegal ?? Not in Texas. |
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