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Link Posted: 5/2/2019 1:35:20 PM EST
[#1]
I see some people wondering what GRRM thinks about the show the past few seasons.

I think this is pretty telling:

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Link Posted: 5/2/2019 1:36:20 PM EST
[#2]
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Its possible but I dont think the writers can keep their agenda and SJW pressure out of the show. They'll have it be woman no matter what, even if they have to force the story that way. They cant help themselves.

Hopefully its Sansa or Arya or even Jon or Tyrion. If its Dany then we know they definitely went the SJW fan favorite direction.
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If that happens, I'll be pissed.

I think Jon ends up king of the seven kingdoms.

He's Arthur.
Its possible but I dont think the writers can keep their agenda and SJW pressure out of the show. They'll have it be woman no matter what, even if they have to force the story that way. They cant help themselves.

Hopefully its Sansa or Arya or even Jon or Tyrion. If its Dany then we know they definitely went the SJW fan favorite direction.
I have hope that it won't become an SJW podium.

But my gut is telling me from here on out it's turtles (feminism), turtles all the way down...

My first theory would SUCK SO BAD, which is why I think it's highly likely because that's what D&D like to do, suck it, but here it is:

Jaime will die for Brienne, The Hound will die to protect Arya, Jon for Dany, Tyrion for Sansa...Only women will be left, and only women will increase their KD with main antagonists from here on out. Theon's sister will kill their uncle, Arya will kill the mountain and Arya or Sansa will kill Cersei.

Better theory: If Arya, while attempting to kill the mountain or cersei gets cut in half by said mountain. I love Arya's character and have nothing against her, but she needs to be sacrificed for the show. It would also be fitting for Tyrion to be the illegitimate son of the mad king and tywin lannister's late wife and for him to end up on the throne, but D&D are idiots and I believe we will suffer the fate of my first, sucky theory.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 1:36:57 PM EST
[#3]
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Jon did more than anyone in the war against the dead.  All he didn't do is get the kill shot on NK.  Arya did that and Jon started her on her path and Jon is the reason Arya returned to Winterfell.
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Did he do more than anyone else? Make a couple strafing runs, killed a few wights, and screamed at a zombie dragon. There's no real evidence that the dragon needed Jon riding him to do what it did. Heck, there's no evidence that Jon was controlling the dragon, not really.

They were going to lose the mass battle regardless of circumstances. Did the dragon strafing runs have an effect? Hard to say.

He didn't-
kill a zombie giant
kill a zombie dragon
kill a white walker
protect Bran from being killed
protect Arya from being killed
protect SAM from being killed
protect Dany from being killed

you might argue his role was all in the setup, but in the actual battle- nah.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 1:38:43 PM EST
[#4]
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Arya killed the NK when he was surrounded by an entire 360 of dudes. He wasnt distracted either, he caught her ass.

She could have done that anywhere.

Jon led those people to pointless horrible deaths for no reason.
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Arya wouldn’t have gotten her shot to stab the Night King without him.
Arya killed the NK when he was surrounded by an entire 360 of dudes. He wasnt distracted either, he caught her ass.

She could have done that anywhere.

Jon led those people to pointless horrible deaths for no reason.
Jon repeatedly leads people to pointless horrible deaths (e.g., Battle of the Bastards). He is an incompetent leader and a terrible tactician. His swordsmanship isn't event that great aside from killing red shirts.

I'm not saying that there weren't problems with Arya shanking the Night King, but Jon doing the deed would have been similarly far fetched.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 1:39:54 PM EST
[#5]
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Jon made peace with the Wildlings, took back Winterfell and united the North, created the army of the living by recruiting Dany to his cause, and successfully led and won the war against the dead.

But because he didn't get the kill shot on the NK, the whole story is ruined and its all over for him.

That's toddler logic.  The carrots are touching the mashed potatoes and gravy, dinner is ruined!!!

Jon just found out he is a Targaryen.  He still has a part to play in the story.

The first point is a legitimate criticism but all shows and stories have the heroes go up against impossible odds and come out on top when they should be dead.  It's done for dramatic effect and I think it's over the top and stupid, but it is what it is.  Rarely can big battles with heroes in the middle of the fight be realistic because with hundreds or thousands of people involved, the best fighters in the world can be easily killed by dumb luck.

Jon did more than anyone in the war against the dead.  All he didn't do is get the kill shot on NK.  Arya did that and Jon started her on her path and Jon is the reason Arya returned to Winterfell.
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Exactly, Jon has played a very important part in killing the Night King, and saving the world.  Arya was more like a weapon.

I don't enjoy movies that "paint by numbers" and show the connection of all the dots as they occur.

People should remember what Bran said to Theon in the godswood when Theon apologized to Bran for all he had done.  Remember what Bran said?

"...everything you did brought you to where you are now, where you belong...."


Arya's attack was NOT THE PLAN.  It would not have occurred hadn't everything been put in place exactly right.  It all had to playout exactly the way it did, for the Night King to be killed.

And Jon was a HUGE part of that.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 1:43:10 PM EST
[#6]
Since you clearly didn't read what I posted earlier, here are excerpts:

I think the best explanation for why Arya should not have been the one to kill the Night King is a comparison to Lord of the Rings. Arya killing the Night King is the equivalent of Pippin charging in to throw the ring into Mt. Doom. There's nothing wrong with Pippin as a character, it has nothing to do with Pippin's abilities, but it was not his story to finish. It had to be Frodo because the ring defined his character arc.
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The way this episode ended would be like if Star Wars ended like this:
Luke is on the Emperor's ship for the final showdown, pleading with his father, yadda yadda.While Palpatine is electrocuting Luke, Han Solo suddenly burst out from behind the Throne, blasting the Emperor through the chest and killing him.
While Luke and Vader look on, Han goes "Did I get him? Was that him? I've never actually seen him before...". Smirks his sultry outlaw smirk.

Then everyone defends it by saying Anakin brought balance to the force, because he sired Luke, who befriended Han, ensuring Han would be there at the perfect opportunity to fulfill his destiny.

On one hand, we aren't "mad" that Han Solo did it, because Han Solo is a cool character. Except the whole showdown had nothing to do with his story, or his motivations, and took the final showdown away from the characters that were involved in that plot.

Edit for further context: Everyone expects Luke or Vader to do it (Jon or Dany, essentially), there is an outside shot of Leia ("there is another", which could have been a few other characters, like Bran, maybe longshot Jaime ("kingslayer")). But very very few people would have ever thought Han (Arya).
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Link Posted: 5/2/2019 1:52:41 PM EST
[#7]
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If that happens, I'll be pissed.

I think Jon ends up king of the seven kingdoms.

He's Arthur.
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Yep.

They should have at least let him die in the battle. Instead he is gonna get belittled by women for 3 more episodes.
If that happens, I'll be pissed.

I think Jon ends up king of the seven kingdoms.

He's Arthur.
Have you ever read an arthurian tale? What normally happens to King Arthur at the end of thise stories?
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 1:55:31 PM EST
[#8]
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Some people are claiming Dumb and Dumber definitely had this ending for the Night King planned for a long time and use the scene with Melisandre meeting Arya in S3 as "proof."

Why then in S3 did Melisandre say "brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes" and in S8 she changed it to "brown eyes, green eyes,.... and blue eyes"?  If they knew way back then why not have it be the same order?

Personally I think that was just a reference to Arya killing people in general and Dumb and Dumber are using that line as an excuse to shoehorn Arya killing the NK as "something they had planned all along."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEj1aN_Rmj0
View Quote
7:25 Melisandre tells Gendry he will cause Kings to rise or fall.  If this scene is prophecy does Gendry kill John or save him by killing Danny or Cersei?
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 1:56:48 PM EST
[#9]
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7:25 Melisandre tells Gendry he will cause Kings to rise or fall.  If this scene is prophecy does Gendry kill John or save him by killing Danny or Cersei?
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Quoted:
Some people are claiming Dumb and Dumber definitely had this ending for the Night King planned for a long time and use the scene with Melisandre meeting Arya in S3 as "proof."

Why then in S3 did Melisandre say "brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes" and in S8 she changed it to "brown eyes, green eyes,.... and blue eyes"?  If they knew way back then why not have it be the same order?

Personally I think that was just a reference to Arya killing people in general and Dumb and Dumber are using that line as an excuse to shoehorn Arya killing the NK as "something they had planned all along."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEj1aN_Rmj0
7:25 Melisandre tells Gendry he will cause Kings to rise or fall.  If this scene is prophecy does Gendry kill John or save him by killing Danny or Cersei?
It was primarily about the Red Wedding.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 1:59:10 PM EST
[#10]
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Since you clearly didn't read what I posted earlier, here are excerpts:

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Quoted:
Since you clearly didn't read what I posted earlier, here are excerpts:

I think the best explanation for why Arya should not have been the one to kill the Night King is a comparison to Lord of the Rings. Arya killing the Night King is the equivalent of Pippin charging in to throw the ring into Mt. Doom. There's nothing wrong with Pippin as a character, it has nothing to do with Pippin's abilities, but it was not his story to finish. It had to be Frodo because the ring defined his character arc.
The way this episode ended would be like if Star Wars ended like this:
Luke is on the Emperor's ship for the final showdown, pleading with his father, yadda yadda.While Palpatine is electrocuting Luke, Han Solo suddenly burst out from behind the Throne, blasting the Emperor through the chest and killing him.
While Luke and Vader look on, Han goes "Did I get him? Was that him? I've never actually seen him before...". Smirks his sultry outlaw smirk.

Then everyone defends it by saying Anakin brought balance to the force, because he sired Luke, who befriended Han, ensuring Han would be there at the perfect opportunity to fulfill his destiny.

On one hand, we aren't "mad" that Han Solo did it, because Han Solo is a cool character. Except the whole showdown had nothing to do with his story, or his motivations, and took the final showdown away from the characters that were involved in that plot.

Edit for further context: Everyone expects Luke or Vader to do it (Jon or Dany, essentially), there is an outside shot of Leia ("there is another", which could have been a few other characters, like Bran, maybe longshot Jaime ("kingslayer")). But very very few people would have ever thought Han (Arya).
Pippin wouldn't have worked because he was essentially Podrick. If Podrick had charged in there it would have been a problem.

If Sam had tossed the ring in because of Frodo's inability then it would have still made sense, even though it was Frodo's Journey.

Arya is closer to a Sam (I would argue more of a legolas though) than a pippin.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:01:33 PM EST
[#11]
We're all becoming way too sensitive.  Just remember how stupid SJW's sound when they see racism, or sexism, in EVERYTHING?

It's making us do the same thing.

Don't get me wrong.  There are politics in entertainment.  Sometimes they're gross displays of political agendas, and sometimes they're not.  I don't feel morally offended, or feel that my political views have been demeaned by anything that has happened in GOT.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:04:09 PM EST
[#12]
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It's making us do the same thing.
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It's not just us. Many of the hardcore fans of the series arent' satisfied with the episode. Go look at /r/gameofthrones   /r/asoif   or /r/freefolk. The majority of people on reddit are liberals.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:06:15 PM EST
[#13]
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Quoted:

7:25 Melisandre tells Gendry he will cause Kings to rise or fall.  If this scene is prophecy does Gendry kill John or save him by killing Danny or Cersei?
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I take that to mean what she intends to do with him (and did) and not some long-foreshadowed prophecy.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:14:29 PM EST
[#14]
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Quoted:
7:25 Melisandre tells Gendry he will cause Kings to rise or fall.  If this scene is prophecy does Gendry kill John or save him by killing Danny or Cersei?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Some people are claiming Dumb and Dumber definitely had this ending for the Night King planned for a long time and use the scene with Melisandre meeting Arya in S3 as "proof."

Why then in S3 did Melisandre say "brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes" and in S8 she changed it to "brown eyes, green eyes,.... and blue eyes"?  If they knew way back then why not have it be the same order?

Personally I think that was just a reference to Arya killing people in general and Dumb and Dumber are using that line as an excuse to shoehorn Arya killing the NK as "something they had planned all along."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEj1aN_Rmj0
7:25 Melisandre tells Gendry he will cause Kings to rise or fall.  If this scene is prophecy does Gendry kill John or save him by killing Danny or Cersei?
That isn't what Mel was referring to.  She was talking about the War of the Five Kings.  However, if Gendry does do that Dumb and Dumber will probably cite that scene as proof they had it "planned all along."
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:15:10 PM EST
[#15]
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It's not just us. Many of the hardcore fans of the series arent' satisfied with the episode. Go look at /r/gameofthrones   /r/asoif   or /r/freefolk. The majority of people on reddit are liberals.
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Sure but there's half a dozen different reasons.

The SJW stuff is absolutely an example of people becoming the thing they hate, on both sides. It's a peculiar facet of human nature but it happens more often than not.

Like others have said, GRRM wrote himself into a corner and wrapping this thing up isn't an easy task, he hasn't been able to do it himself.

I think a big part of the problem is the NK arc is over but the GOT isn't yet. When the final credits roll that will be the time to judge how they did.

There's no reason there still couldn't be a prince who was promised, but there's no reason to expect the show to wrap up every thread from the novels, that ship sailed long ago.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:19:52 PM EST
[#16]
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That isn't what Mel was referring to.  She was talking about the War of the Five Kings.  However, if Gendry does do that Dumb and Dumber will probably cite that scene as proof they had it "planned all along."
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Some people are claiming Dumb and Dumber definitely had this ending for the Night King planned for a long time and use the scene with Melisandre meeting Arya in S3 as "proof."

Why then in S3 did Melisandre say "brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes" and in S8 she changed it to "brown eyes, green eyes,.... and blue eyes"?  If they knew way back then why not have it be the same order?

Personally I think that was just a reference to Arya killing people in general and Dumb and Dumber are using that line as an excuse to shoehorn Arya killing the NK as "something they had planned all along."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEj1aN_Rmj0
7:25 Melisandre tells Gendry he will cause Kings to rise or fall.  If this scene is prophecy does Gendry kill John or save him by killing Danny or Cersei?
That isn't what Mel was referring to.  She was talking about the War of the Five Kings.  However, if Gendry does do that Dumb and Dumber will probably cite that scene as proof they had it "planned all along."
Rhaegar is stupid, as is his song, his drastic course correction in his life was for no reason, at all.
Jon Snow coming back from the dead?
JK, Lol.
Prophesies are stupid (But magic good enough to raise the dead, and dragons are real, can you believe people also believed in prophesies in such a world? Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr)

BUT Melisandre "Burn your kid and pass the leeches, Stannis" Red Witch quotes?
Those are the real deal
Pay attention shitlords, the clues are right there.
Just ask Stannis.



Ignore your "Fan theories" based on books, storylines, or anything else.
Start paying attention to Melisandre quotes in the show, with words re-arranged into any order.
That's not a sign that something is amiss
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:21:20 PM EST
[#17]
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It's not just us. Many of the hardcore fans of the series arent' satisfied with the episode. Go look at /r/gameofthrones   /r/asoif   or /r/freefolk. The majority of people on reddit are liberals.
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It's making us do the same thing.
It's not just us. Many of the hardcore fans of the series arent' satisfied with the episode. Go look at /r/gameofthrones   /r/asoif   or /r/freefolk. The majority of people on reddit are liberals.
Oh, I know there are a lot of people not happy with the episode, for a variety of reason.  There always are.  It's hard to make everyone happy.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:21:50 PM EST
[#18]
I don't attribute bad or sloppy writing to SJW shit. In the end I still have this gut feeling it will be a woman sitting on the throne because of feelz.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:28:49 PM EST
[#19]
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Quoted:
Rhaegar is stupid, as is his song, his drastic course correction in his life was for no reason, at all.
Jon Snow coming back from the dead?
JK, Lol.
Prophesies are stupid (But magic good enough to raise the dead, and dragons are real, can you believe people also believed in prophesies in such a world? Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr)

BUT Melisandre "Burn your kid and pass the leeches, Stannis" Red Witch quotes?
Those are the real deal
Pay attention shitlords, the clues are right there.
Just ask Stannis.

https://external-preview.redd.it/YcO-RCNP3aMbIjX7d0KEvqQpWBFZSsPlmaVygXTUqaM.jpg?width=735&auto=webp&s=b7a36ff2dfd69363fdee4d11a2e64908039b268b

Ignore your "Fan theories" based on books, storylines, or anything else.
Start paying attention to Melisandre quotes in the show, with words re-arranged into any order.
That's not a sign that something is amiss
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Some people are claiming Dumb and Dumber definitely had this ending for the Night King planned for a long time and use the scene with Melisandre meeting Arya in S3 as "proof."

Why then in S3 did Melisandre say "brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes" and in S8 she changed it to "brown eyes, green eyes,.... and blue eyes"?  If they knew way back then why not have it be the same order?

Personally I think that was just a reference to Arya killing people in general and Dumb and Dumber are using that line as an excuse to shoehorn Arya killing the NK as "something they had planned all along."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEj1aN_Rmj0
7:25 Melisandre tells Gendry he will cause Kings to rise or fall.  If this scene is prophecy does Gendry kill John or save him by killing Danny or Cersei?
That isn't what Mel was referring to.  She was talking about the War of the Five Kings.  However, if Gendry does do that Dumb and Dumber will probably cite that scene as proof they had it "planned all along."
Rhaegar is stupid, as is his song, his drastic course correction in his life was for no reason, at all.
Jon Snow coming back from the dead?
JK, Lol.
Prophesies are stupid (But magic good enough to raise the dead, and dragons are real, can you believe people also believed in prophesies in such a world? Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr)

BUT Melisandre "Burn your kid and pass the leeches, Stannis" Red Witch quotes?
Those are the real deal
Pay attention shitlords, the clues are right there.
Just ask Stannis.

https://external-preview.redd.it/YcO-RCNP3aMbIjX7d0KEvqQpWBFZSsPlmaVygXTUqaM.jpg?width=735&auto=webp&s=b7a36ff2dfd69363fdee4d11a2e64908039b268b

Ignore your "Fan theories" based on books, storylines, or anything else.
Start paying attention to Melisandre quotes in the show, with words re-arranged into any order.
That's not a sign that something is amiss
Sam uses magic to kill Cersei and there is a callback to Sam saying he always wanted to be a wizard in S1.

"See! See! David and Dan had it planned all along! All the evidence is there! Wow, what a great twist!"
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:30:24 PM EST
[#20]
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Quoted:

Sure but there's half a dozen different reasons.
The SJW stuff is absolutely an example of people becoming the thing they hate, on both sides. It's a peculiar facet of human nature but it happens more often than not.
Like others have said, GRRM wrote himself into a corner and wrapping this thing up isn't an easy task, he hasn't been able to do it himself.
I think a big part of the problem is the NK arc is over but the GOT isn't yet. When the final credits roll that will be the time to judge how they did.

There's no reason there still couldn't be a prince who was promised, but there's no reason to expect the show to wrap up every thread from the novels, that ship sailed long ago.
View Quote
I agree.

But I think I'm going to be okay with it no matter what.  Maybe it's because I'm getting old, because when it comes to fantasy, science fiction, and storytelling in general, as long as it's not dumbed down too much, obvious, predictable, or idiotic, I'm pretty much fine with it.  I kind of go into it with no expectations of "what I want", and just watch it for what it is.

If I enjoy it, I enjoy it.  If I don't, I don't.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:31:32 PM EST
[#21]
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Quoted:
It's not just us. Many of the hardcore fans of the series arent' satisfied with the episode. Go look at /r/gameofthrones   /r/asoif   or /r/freefolk. The majority of people on reddit are liberals.
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Quoted:

It's making us do the same thing.
It's not just us. Many of the hardcore fans of the series arent' satisfied with the episode. Go look at /r/gameofthrones   /r/asoif   or /r/freefolk. The majority of people on reddit are liberals.
Eh, I've read all the books and comics and what not. Most of it before there was a TV show. I have an old school (before licensing) Shire Post Mint silver stag somewhere. I liked how they handled the death of the Night King. Not everyone is going to agree. And nerds are the whiniest of all the whiners, so I expect a bunch of butt hurt--no matter how this story played out. My only real gripe is that the battle between the dead and the living should have been the climax of the series--not the game of thrones itself.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:31:35 PM EST
[#22]
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Quoted:
I don't attribute bad or sloppy writing to SJW shit. In the end I still have this gut feeling it will be a woman sitting on the throne because of feelz.
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A woman is sitting on the throne right now!
I'm not sure if she legally has the right to do so, but she's there so...
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:32:58 PM EST
[#23]
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Eh, I've read all the books and comics and what not. Most of it before there was a TV show. I have an old school (before licensing) Shire Post Mint silver stag somewhere. I liked how they handled the death of the Night King. Not everyone is going to agree. And nerds are the whiniest of all the whiners, so I expect a bunch of butt hurt--no matter how this story played out. My only real gripe is that the battle between the dead and the living should have been the climax of the series--not the game of thrones itself.
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I believe as someone else pointed out earlier, in the books, if they ever get written, that will probably be the case.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:34:24 PM EST
[#24]
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I believe as someone else pointed out earlier, in the books, if they ever get written, that will probably be the case.
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Quoted:
Eh, I've read all the books and comics and what not. Most of it before there was a TV show. I have an old school (before licensing) Shire Post Mint silver stag somewhere. I liked how they handled the death of the Night King. Not everyone is going to agree. And nerds are the whiniest of all the whiners, so I expect a bunch of butt hurt--no matter how this story played out. My only real gripe is that the battle between the dead and the living should have been the climax of the series--not the game of thrones itself.
I believe as someone else pointed out earlier, in the books, if they ever get written, that will probably be the case.
I have zero faith in GRRM actually finishing the books. I was so ticked off with the last one running parallel to the previous one. Took me longer than normal to make it through due to that stupidity.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:35:08 PM EST
[#25]
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A woman is sitting on the throne right now!
I'm not sure if she legally has the right to do so, but she's there so...
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Nuffin counts till the last credit rolz. Donna be such a newb.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:35:43 PM EST
[#26]
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Oh, I know there are a lot of people not happy with the episode, for a variety of reason.  There always are.  It's hard to make everyone happy.
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There’s like four people in this thread that are happy with it. They’ve kept the rest of bitching at them for thirty pages by continuously telling us why we should have been happy with it.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:35:56 PM EST
[#27]
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Sam uses magic to kill Cersei and there is a callback to Sam saying he always wanted to be a wizard in S1.

"See! See! David and Dan had it planned all along! All the evidence is there!"
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Some people are claiming Dumb and Dumber definitely had this ending for the Night King planned for a long time and use the scene with Melisandre meeting Arya in S3 as "proof."

Why then in S3 did Melisandre say "brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes" and in S8 she changed it to "brown eyes, green eyes,.... and blue eyes"?  If they knew way back then why not have it be the same order?

Personally I think that was just a reference to Arya killing people in general and Dumb and Dumber are using that line as an excuse to shoehorn Arya killing the NK as "something they had planned all along."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEj1aN_Rmj0
7:25 Melisandre tells Gendry he will cause Kings to rise or fall.  If this scene is prophecy does Gendry kill John or save him by killing Danny or Cersei?
That isn't what Mel was referring to.  She was talking about the War of the Five Kings.  However, if Gendry does do that Dumb and Dumber will probably cite that scene as proof they had it "planned all along."
Rhaegar is stupid, as is his song, his drastic course correction in his life was for no reason, at all.
Jon Snow coming back from the dead?
JK, Lol.
Prophesies are stupid (But magic good enough to raise the dead, and dragons are real, can you believe people also believed in prophesies in such a world? Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr)

BUT Melisandre "Burn your kid and pass the leeches, Stannis" Red Witch quotes?
Those are the real deal
Pay attention shitlords, the clues are right there.
Just ask Stannis.

https://external-preview.redd.it/YcO-RCNP3aMbIjX7d0KEvqQpWBFZSsPlmaVygXTUqaM.jpg?width=735&auto=webp&s=b7a36ff2dfd69363fdee4d11a2e64908039b268b

Ignore your "Fan theories" based on books, storylines, or anything else.
Start paying attention to Melisandre quotes in the show, with words re-arranged into any order.
That's not a sign that something is amiss
Sam uses magic to kill Cersei and there is a callback to Sam saying he always wanted to be a wizard in S1.

"See! See! David and Dan had it planned all along! All the evidence is there!"
"HA-HA, WOW YOU SNOWFLAKES WANTED MAYBE TYRION OR JAMIE TO KILL CERSEI?!?!!??
HAHA ! LOOK AT THIS BUZZFEED ARTICLE TALKING ABOUT HOW OBVIOUS IT WAS AFTER THE FACT!
I DIDN'T HAVE THIS PREDICTED ANYWHERE, BUT I'M SO SMART I AM BECAUSE AGREE WITH IT, AND NOW CALL IT OBVIOUS.
....E-EVEN THOUGH WHAT I'M REALLY TRYING TO SAY IS THAT IT MADE SENSE TO ME, WHEN I USE THE SAME HIPSTER-LOGIC D&D DID."

That's silly that Sam would use magic, in a world with working magic, ice zombies, dragons, duh.
Prophesies and wizards? THAT is where the line is drawn. Duh.
Here's a buzzfeed article about that very topic, after the fact.

.... Sure Melisandre maybe has magic or not, we don't know, but fuck Bran's ability to literally see through time and see ancient history, SHE knew Arya was gunna kill the Night King.
... but with that special future knowledge, she ruined Stannis with allll of other stuff she might not have done had she really had better knowledge of the future than the 3 Eyed Raven - but there's no way this was hot-shot story correction.

ETA: I'm thinking Arya's going to get Cersei.
Cersei was the original GRRM arc, IMHO.
She was on her list, the whole thing about be-heading her Dad is probably high motivation.
Joffrey is dead so that's handled.
Arya actually trained to fight the living, using disguise and deception, which probably wouldn't have/shouldn't have worked on White Walkers who I assume have predator Vision .

Better enjoy Dagger-Jump, the sequel.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:38:52 PM EST
[#28]
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A woman is sitting on the throne right now!
I'm not sure if she legally has the right to do so, but she's there so...
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I don't attribute bad or sloppy writing to SJW shit. In the end I still have this gut feeling it will be a woman sitting on the throne because of feelz.
A woman is sitting on the throne right now!
I'm not sure if she legally has the right to do so, but she's there so...
Obviously "legally" doesn't mean anything in this case, but I think one of Tommen's male cousins (would be at least twice removed) would be next in line of succession after Tommen died rather than the queen mother.  Maybe not.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:40:54 PM EST
[#29]
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There’s like four people in this thread that are happy with it. They’ve kept the rest of bitching at them for thirty pages by continuously telling us why we should have been happy with it.
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Who has told you, you should be happy with it?

No one can tell another person how to feel about something.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:43:28 PM EST
[#30]
Is there a reason Arya can't use someone else's face, stroll in, kill Cersi, stroll out?
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:44:00 PM EST
[#31]
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Oh, I know there are a lot of people not happy with the episode, for a variety of reason.  There always are.  It's hard to make everyone happy.
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It's making us do the same thing.
It's not just us. Many of the hardcore fans of the series arent' satisfied with the episode. Go look at /r/gameofthrones   /r/asoif   or /r/freefolk. The majority of people on reddit are liberals.
Oh, I know there are a lot of people not happy with the episode, for a variety of reason.  There always are.  It's hard to make everyone happy.
I've yet to see any criticism that isn't based on how someone feels about it, and their personal dissatisfaction with it not going the way of their little pet theories and preferences. Including me.

They may not have liked the plot, but the plot is consistent with itself, the lore of GoT, and ties in with the last several seasons of the paths that the characters have been on, previous decisions, mistakes and actions, both when using material from the books and GRRM and after that stuff ran out.

My personal view of LOTR is pretty much the same. A retarded plot, of retarded people, making retarded decisions, that was only saved by Tolkien's ability to make it consistent with itself, and above average world-building.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:48:59 PM EST
[#32]
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Eh, I've read all the books and comics and what not. Most of it before there was a TV show. I have an old school (before licensing) Shire Post Mint silver stag somewhere. I liked how they handled the death of the Night King. Not everyone is going to agree. And nerds are the whiniest of all the whiners, so I expect a bunch of butt hurt--no matter how this story played out. My only real gripe is that the battle between the dead and the living should have been the climax of the series--not the game of thrones itself.
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Thank you!  I thought I was the only one.  Right after the show that was my only gripe.  I thought the Night King and his army posed an existential threat to the survival of humanity, and his destruction should have been the climax of the series.  I stated as much many pages ago.

It's going to be interesting to see how they make the final conflict bigger.  Cersei as bad as she is, isn't an existential threat to humanity, like the Night King. Killing him first was kind of let down for me.

Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:48:59 PM EST
[#33]
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Quoted:
Is there a reason Arya can't use someone else's face, stroll in, kill Cersi, stroll out?
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How close is Cersei to a bush?
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:49:09 PM EST
[#34]
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Is there a reason Arya can't use someone else's face, stroll in, kill Cersi, stroll out?
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Why stroll when you can fly?
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:53:22 PM EST
[#35]
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Who has told you, you should be happy with it?

No one can tell another person how to feel about something.
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It was a poor choice of words on my part. Happy was easier to type than:

Citing buzzfeed articles to justify their acceptance.
Moving the goalposts on what is or isn’t Deus Ex Machina.
Creating vast conspiracy theories on how Arya got to the godswood.
Etc...
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 2:59:10 PM EST
[#36]
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Since you clearly didn't read what I posted earlier, here are excerpts:

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Since you clearly didn't read what I posted earlier, here are excerpts:

I think the best explanation for why Arya should not have been the one to kill the Night King is a comparison to Lord of the Rings. Arya killing the Night King is the equivalent of Pippin charging in to throw the ring into Mt. Doom. There's nothing wrong with Pippin as a character, it has nothing to do with Pippin's abilities, but it was not his story to finish. It had to be Frodo because the ring defined his character arc.
The way this episode ended would be like if Star Wars ended like this:
Luke is on the Emperor's ship for the final showdown, pleading with his father, yadda yadda.While Palpatine is electrocuting Luke, Han Solo suddenly burst out from behind the Throne, blasting the Emperor through the chest and killing him.
While Luke and Vader look on, Han goes "Did I get him? Was that him? I've never actually seen him before...". Smirks his sultry outlaw smirk.

Then everyone defends it by saying Anakin brought balance to the force, because he sired Luke, who befriended Han, ensuring Han would be there at the perfect opportunity to fulfill his destiny.

On one hand, we aren't "mad" that Han Solo did it, because Han Solo is a cool character. Except the whole showdown had nothing to do with his story, or his motivations, and took the final showdown away from the characters that were involved in that plot.

Edit for further context: Everyone expects Luke or Vader to do it (Jon or Dany, essentially), there is an outside shot of Leia ("there is another", which could have been a few other characters, like Bran, maybe longshot Jaime ("kingslayer")). But very very few people would have ever thought Han (Arya).
I read it on reddit before you posted it here.  It's still nonsense.

Arya is not the equivalent of Pippin.   The whole story is about Frodo and that is blatantly obvious from the beginning.  Jon Snow is a major character on the same level as Dany, Cersei, Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, and maybe Jamie.  The whole story is not just about him.  Frodo doesn't even throw the ring in to Mt. Doom.  Gollum steals it and falls into it.  Kind of ironic given the conversation we are having about stealing the kill.  It also finished Gollum's character arc just like killing the NK completed Arya's.  It wasn't just about killing the NK for her.  She was able to use her abilities to save her family when she couldn't help save her parents or her brother before.

The Star Wars analogy also falls flat.  The Emperor and Vader are master Sith and can only be taken out by people with similar power.  Arya is on the same level with the other great fighters like Jorah, Brienne, Jamie, and Jon.  All of them had Valyrian steel weapons and it wouldn't have felt cheap if any of them got the kill, even though I still think Arya was the best choice to pull it off.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:02:01 PM EST
[#37]
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Thank you!  I thought I was the only one.  Right after the show that was my only gripe.  I thought the Night King and his army posed an existential threat to the survival of humanity, and his destruction should have been the climax of the series.  I stated as much many pages ago.

It's going to be interesting to see how they make the final conflict bigger.  Cersei as bad as she is, isn't an existential threat to humanity, like the Night King. Killing him first was kind of let down for me.

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Eh, I've read all the books and comics and what not. Most of it before there was a TV show. I have an old school (before licensing) Shire Post Mint silver stag somewhere. I liked how they handled the death of the Night King. Not everyone is going to agree. And nerds are the whiniest of all the whiners, so I expect a bunch of butt hurt--no matter how this story played out. My only real gripe is that the battle between the dead and the living should have been the climax of the series--not the game of thrones itself.
Thank you!  I thought I was the only one.  Right after the show that was my only gripe.  I thought the Night King and his army posed an existential threat to the survival of humanity, and his destruction should have been the climax of the series.  I stated as much many pages ago.

It's going to be interesting to see how they make the final conflict bigger.  Cersei as bad as she is, isn't an existential threat to humanity, like the Night King. Killing him first was kind of let down for me.

Honestly this was a fear I had when they decided to call the TV series "Game of Thrones" rather than "A Song of Ice and Fire." The first book being called A Game of Thrones made sense. But when they called the TV series that my fear was that the series would focus too much on the game rather than the, as you put it, existential threat. But then with these people you never know--the reference to "Ice and Fire" could be something other than the Night King versus the living/Targaryens.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:08:16 PM EST
[#38]
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Quoted:
It was a poor choice of words on my part. Happy was easier to type than:

Citing buzzfeed articles to justify their acceptance.
Moving the goalposts on what is or isn’t Deus Ex Machina.
Creating vast conspiracy theories on how Arya got to the godswood.
Etc...
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Quoted:

Who has told you, you should be happy with it?

No one can tell another person how to feel about something.
It was a poor choice of words on my part. Happy was easier to type than:

Citing buzzfeed articles to justify their acceptance.
Moving the goalposts on what is or isn’t Deus Ex Machina.
Creating vast conspiracy theories on how Arya got to the godswood.
Etc...
Ok, people like to debate.  They want to be right, because it gives them a dopamine hit.  Most of the time that causes debates to turn into arguments.  Where people become so emotionally invested in their argument they become angry when their argument is challenged or refuted.  At that point they never back down, because to do so, is emotionally painful to them.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:10:10 PM EST
[#39]
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Quoted:

Sam uses magic to kill Cersei and there is a callback to Sam saying he always wanted to be a wizard in S1.

"See! See! David and Dan had it planned all along! All the evidence is there! Wow, what a great twist!"
View Quote
Jon and Dany conquer King's Landing and confront Cersei.  Cersei tells them about the High Septon and his treatment of women and gays.  Jon realizes that Westeros cannot be saved so long as toxic masculinity exists, so he renounces his claim and heads north of the Wall, never to be seen alive again.  Cersei and Dany marry, uniting the claims.  They raise Cersei's son, Tywin, as a female, now called Tywinna.  Euron also decides to change his gender, and sails back to Asshai to see if sorcery can do the trick.  Sam returns to the Citadel after being charged to find a cure for toxic masculinity, which he now realizes is the true cause of his father's and brother's death, and not Dany "Burn them all" Dragontits.  Arya takes over Littlefinger's brothel and turns it into a lesbian BDSM sex dungeon, which is tots cool and not abusive because its being run by a girl and not toxic masculinity.  Her sister Sansa is her biggest client.  Gendry starts Ye Olde Sex Shopp forging dildos, strap-ons, and other toys for Arya.  Grey Worm and Missande form the Westeros Chapter of the NAACP.

The Hound and the Mountain decide that Cleganebowl would be far, far too much toxic masculinity, and decide to reconcile.  The Hound becomes the new High Septon and removes the Father, Warrior, and Smith from the Pantheon, leaving only female (Mother, Maiden, Crone) and gender-neutral (Stranger) deities.  R'hllor is banned in westeros because Kinvara refuses to rename him the Lady of Light.  Tyrion and Varys just stand around and make unfunny quips.  D&D just flat out forget to write endings for Jamie and Brienne, and as far as we know they're still in Winterfell.  With all of Westeros ruled by women, and with toxic masculinity no longer around to fat shame them, the women gorge themselves on pastries.  Hot Pie becomes the richest person in Westeros.  He retires to Lys.

In the final scene, Jaqen H'ghar and Kinvara peer into the flames and see the degeneracy that is Westeros.  They travel north of the Wall and find Jon Snow.  The replicate the magic of the Children and drive an obsidian dagger into his chest, he awakes as the new Night King.  Cut to Bran sitting by the Weirwood, a smile slowly creeps on his face as the snows begin to fall.  Fade to black.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:14:30 PM EST
[#40]
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Is there a reason Arya can't use someone else's face, stroll in, kill Cersi, stroll out?
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Because jon/aegon is going to take arya to check on the dragons.  Dragon is gonna think, 'oh goody a snack!'  As arya comes up to proper grilling temps her arya face is going to melt off exposing the waif.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:16:04 PM EST
[#41]
Alternative tactics that could be used.

Scenario:
Attacking force is on foot, equipped with only melee weapons. No archers, no cavalry, but high numbers. Tactics are simple waves of zombies. They have one dragon.
Attacking force is subject to quick-kill when struck with obsidian or Valarian steel.
Defensive side has a large light cavalry force, a light infantry (spears and shields), and then heavy infantry. They have two dragons.

Goal: slow down/break up the zombie waves into management chunks.

Field prep. Litter the approaches with the dragon-glass tipped obstacles.  Use randomly distributed hidden pits with dragon-glass tipped spikes at the bottom. This should slow and break up the advance.

Split Dothraki into two forces, they are to do slashing attacks at the flanks of the attacking force. No frontal attacks.

This should force the zombies into a "kill box".  Fill the kill box with dragon glass tipped arrows, and the firebombs from the trebuchets.

Keep the trebuchets behind the trenches and even behind the castle walls. Keep them pounding away at the attacking force.

Once the zombies cluster, then the dragons keep sweeping the kill box.

and ???
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:16:18 PM EST
[#42]
Arya kills Cersei.
Arya wears Cersei's face.
Jaime kills new Cersei.

Cleganebowl.

Ser Pounce does cat things.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:16:52 PM EST
[#43]
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Quoted:
Jon and Dany conquer King's Landing and confront Cersei.  Cersei tells them about the High Septon and his treatment of women and gays.  Jon realizes that Westeros cannot be saved so long as toxic masculinity exists, so he renounces his claim and heads north of the Wall, never to be seen alive again.  Cersei and Dany marry, uniting the claims.  They raise Cersei's son, Tywin, as a female, now called Tywinna.  Euron also decides to change his gender, and sails back to Asshai to see if sorcery can do the trick.  Sam returns to the Citadel after being charged to find a cure for toxic masculinity, which he now realizes is the true cause of his father's and brother's death, and not Dany "Burn them all" Dragontits.  Arya takes over Littlefinger's brothel and turns it into a lesbian BDSM sex dungeon, which is tots cool and not abusive because its being run by a girl and not toxic masculinity.  Her sister Sansa is her biggest client.  Gendry starts Ye Olde Sex Shopp forging dildos, strap-ons, and other toys for Arya.  Grey Worm and Melissande form the Westeros Chapter of the NAACP.

The Hound and the Mountain decide that Cleganebowl would be far, far too much toxic masculinity, and decide to reconcile.  The Hound becomes the new High Septon and removes the Father, Warrior, and Smith from the Pantheon, leaving only female (Mother, Maiden, Crone) and gender-neutral (Stranger) deities.  R'hllor is banned in westeros because Kinvara refuses to rename him the Lady of Light.  Tyrion and Varys just stand around and make unfunny quips.  D&D just flat out forget to write endings for Jamie and Brienne, and as far as we know they're still in Winterfell.  With all of Westeros ruled by women, and with toxic masculinity no longer around to fat shame them, the women gorge themselves on pastries.  Hot Pie becomes the richest person in Westeros.  He retires to Lys.

In the final scene, Jaqen H'ghar and Kinvara peer into the flames and see the degeneracy that is Westeros.  They travel north of the Wall and find Jon Snow.  The replicate the magic of the Children and drive an obsidian dagger into his chest, he awakes as the new Night King.  Cut to Bran sitting by the Weirwood, a smile slowly creeps on his face as the snows begin to fall.  Fade to black.
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That’s more believable than the Arya having superpowers.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:18:49 PM EST
[#44]
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Is there a reason Arya can't use someone else's face, stroll in, kill Cersi, stroll out?
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I thought the original plan was going to look like:
- Arya walks in as someone else important, asks the mountain to leave, he does.
- Walks into Cersei's chamber, as someone else important, aaaaaaaaand dagger jump.
"This is what you get, for killing my Father."
- Walk out as Cersei Lannister, ordering Qyburn not to set off the wildfire, kill him too.
- Take Qyburn's face, lure the mountain close, poison him worse.
Mountain reacts,
Clegane bowl.

But, now that D&D are in the game of "subverting expectations" (it's super hard and ultra smart to just do something different. That's just the mark of some serious, serious intellect to say "JK LOLLLLLLLL" to your audience),
They might as well have a fist fight with her and Daenerys now.
After all, this was foreshadowed when Daenerys talks about her reign has come, and sheit.
Storylines < a quote that sounds smart when the words are rearranged.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:19:39 PM EST
[#45]
I can’t wait for whatever is left of team alive to enter kings landing. When Cersei wildfires the city to ashes it’s going to be beautiful.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:20:45 PM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Arya kills Cersei.
Arya wears Cersei's face.
Jaime kills new Cersei.

Cleganebowl.

Ser Pounce does cat things.
View Quote
Brienne beats the mountain
The other redwitch from seasons ago reappears, with another quote that, when the words are shuffled, seems to sorta make sense given how general it was.
Dany on the iron throne
Arya kills Cersei too
Jon Snow eating paste dodging scorpion bolts outside the walls.
Buzzfeed article talking about how genius it was.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:21:29 PM EST
[#47]
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Quoted:

That’s more believable than the Arya having superpowers.
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She didn't.  Well, at least no more than many other important characters in Game of Thrones.

Here's what I think happened:
Click To View Spoiler
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:26:34 PM EST
[#48]
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Quoted:
Because jon/aegon is going to take arya to check on the dragons.  Dragon is gonna think, 'oh goody a snack!'  As arya comes up to proper grilling temps her arya face is going to melt off exposing the waif.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Is there a reason Arya can't use someone else's face, stroll in, kill Cersi, stroll out?
Because jon/aegon is going to take arya to check on the dragons.  Dragon is gonna think, 'oh goody a snack!'  As arya comes up to proper grilling temps her arya face is going to melt off exposing the waif.
You are obviously dumber than a bag of hammers.
Those faggot dragons wouldn't stand a chance against Arya!
Haven't you been watching?
She's been....
Like, training and junk...

Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:29:12 PM EST
[#49]
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Is there a reason Arya can't use someone else's face, stroll in, kill Cersi, stroll out?
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Nope, none at all, other than the idea that she's have to kill someone to use their face.

Qyburn would be an ideal target, as her only and most trusted advisor.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:31:34 PM EST
[#50]
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Quoted:
Nope, none at all, other than the idea that she's have to kill someone to use their face.

Qyburn would be an ideal target, as her only and most trusted advisor.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Is there a reason Arya can't use someone else's face, stroll in, kill Cersi, stroll out?
Nope, none at all, other than the idea that she's have to kill someone to use their face.

Qyburn would be an ideal target, as her only and most trusted advisor.
It would be fucking awesome, but hey Arya was training in disguises to fight white walkers apparently, and this story is about subverting expectations - so don't expect a payoff you silly rube.

Look up your red priestess quotes too, and re-arrange the words to make the mistakes Stannis did find out how this season ends.
Fuck the 3eyed raven.
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