User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 2:18:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is fact that he did nothing, it is fact that others in his command felt they should have done something. If that hurts your feelings, who gives a shit. I understand very well about risk v. reward, but getting up everyday puts you at risk. When peoples lives are on the line you have to take some calculated risk. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow...some people need to get the sand out of their vaginas. I was just asking a simple question and for some input from those who served in AFG. No you weren't. If you had been you wouldn't have included the part about servicemen dying and him doing nothing. It is fact that he did nothing, it is fact that others in his command felt they should have done something. If that hurts your feelings, who gives a shit. I understand very well about risk v. reward, but getting up everyday puts you at risk. When peoples lives are on the line you have to take some calculated risk. Absolutely. Calculated. Unknown casualties, unknown enemy, unknown situation. No commander is going to commit his troops under those conditions. In order to make a calculated risk you have to have at least SOME information to make a calculation from. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 2:29:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Didnt we just have a 21 page bukkake of hate on the Red Wings SDV for a bad contingency planning?
But if long tabbers do it, fuck the Marines? Sounds like SOCOM has some shit doctrine that says they don't want to be battle space owners, until it's time to commandeer someone else's shit, because cool guys? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 2:46:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely. Calculated. Unknown casualties, unknown enemy, unknown situation. No commander is going to commit his troops under those conditions. In order to make a calculated risk you have to have at least SOME information to make a calculation from. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow...some people need to get the sand out of their vaginas. I was just asking a simple question and for some input from those who served in AFG. No you weren't. If you had been you wouldn't have included the part about servicemen dying and him doing nothing. It is fact that he did nothing, it is fact that others in his command felt they should have done something. If that hurts your feelings, who gives a shit. I understand very well about risk v. reward, but getting up everyday puts you at risk. When peoples lives are on the line you have to take some calculated risk. Absolutely. Calculated. Unknown casualties, unknown enemy, unknown situation. No commander is going to commit his troops under those conditions. In order to make a calculated risk you have to have at least SOME information to make a calculation from. Point taken. One thing that I got from the book is a lot of inter-unit communications issues. At points they had ODA574, Delta, CIA communications issues that kept coming up. Now I am guessing that they all use a similar PRC radio on different frequencies and such. But wouldn't the Task Force Commander at least have the ability to communicate with everyone in the area. CIA probably only plays along when it benefits them, but I would think it would be in their interest to stay in contact. Now would Delta be under the control of the Task Force if they are working for the CIA or am I crazy. From the book and other stuff I have read this was a clusterfuck with SF going outside their normal procedures to appease those in power. Just seems like if everyone worked together it would be better and that is what the Task Force is supposed to do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:07:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didnt we just have a 21 page bukkake of hate on the Red Wings SDV for a bad contingency planning? But if long tabbers do it, fuck the Marines? Sounds like SOCOM has some shit doctrine that says they don't want to be battle space owners, until it's time to commandeer someone else's shit, because cool guys? When someone is in trouble and asking for help, you go to the sound of the guns. Why he is in trouble is irrelevant at that moment. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:09:32 PM EDT
[#5]
It's fashionable on ARF to hate on SEALs and Marines, nothing new here.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:14:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's fashionable on ARF to hate on SEALs and Marines, nothing new here. Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:16:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When someone is in trouble and asking for help, you go to the sound of the guns. Why he is in trouble is irrelevant at that moment. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Didnt we just have a 21 page bukkake of hate on the Red Wings SDV for a bad contingency planning? But if long tabbers do it, fuck the Marines? Sounds like SOCOM has some shit doctrine that says they don't want to be battle space owners, until it's time to commandeer someone else's shit, because cool guys? When someone is in trouble and asking for help, you go to the sound of the guns. Why he is in trouble is irrelevant at that moment. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:17:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even when the Why is "Because he's the bait in a larger trap intended to get even more of your people killed?" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Didnt we just have a 21 page bukkake of hate on the Red Wings SDV for a bad contingency planning? But if long tabbers do it, fuck the Marines? Sounds like SOCOM has some shit doctrine that says they don't want to be battle space owners, until it's time to commandeer someone else's shit, because cool guys? When someone is in trouble and asking for help, you go to the sound of the guns. Why he is in trouble is irrelevant at that moment. Ah. Because you know that from the comfort of the TOC? If a MEB commander can't bring enough scunion to handle whatever the taliban has, he should be relieved. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:18:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's fashionable on ARF to hate on SEALs and Marines, nothing new here. Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. Glad I served as a Marine grunt then, sunshine! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:20:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glad I served as a Marine grunt then, sunshine! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's fashionable on ARF to hate on SEALs and Marines, nothing new here. Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. Glad I served as a Marine grunt then, sunshine! wow! 3 whole years! |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:31:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didnt we just have a 21 page bukkake of hate on the Red Wings SDV for a bad contingency planning? But if long tabbers do it, fuck the Marines? Sounds like SOCOM has some shit doctrine that says they don't want to be battle space owners, until it's time to commandeer someone else's shit, because cool guys? QRF isn't "commandeering someone else's shit." It also has shit to do with being a BSO. Before anyone rolls out there is a prearranged QRF established. The 5W on the QRF element really has nothing to do with being organic to your brigade, TF, whatever. It has to do with having the capabilities to fulfill the role of said QRF. Who is closest within the lift bubble/has vehicles capable of reaching them. Conventional forces are often tasked as QRF for SOF and vice versa. It is a briefed event, not something somebody walks up and tells you about after some shit went down. When you are QRF and the supported unit calls for it, you go. If its too dangerous that's what offsets are for. There is also a difference between a QRF and an all-hands event, which is generally called when something like a bird goes down, troop get captured, etc. That's when EVERYONE is getting pulled out of showers and squat racks and suiting up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:32:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wow! 3 whole years! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's fashionable on ARF to hate on SEALs and Marines, nothing new here. Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. Glad I served as a Marine grunt then, sunshine! wow! 3 whole years! WoW....you are on a roll today! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:35:11 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WoW....you are on a roll your period today! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's fashionable on ARF to hate on SEALs and Marines, nothing new here. Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. Glad I served as a Marine grunt then, sunshine! wow! 3 whole years! WoW....you are on a roll your period today! fixed |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:37:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didnt we just have a 21 page bukkake of hate on the Red Wings SDV for a bad contingency planning? But if long tabbers do it, fuck the Marines? Sounds like SOCOM has some shit doctrine that says they don't want to be battle space owners, until it's time to commandeer someone else's shit, because cool guys? I think you may have to look at the time this happened. There were no battlespace owners. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:38:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When someone is in trouble and asking for help, you go to the sound of the guns. Why he is in trouble is irrelevant at that moment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Didnt we just have a 21 page bukkake of hate on the Red Wings SDV for a bad contingency planning? But if long tabbers do it, fuck the Marines? Sounds like SOCOM has some shit doctrine that says they don't want to be battle space owners, until it's time to commandeer someone else's shit, because cool guys? When someone is in trouble and asking for help, you go to the sound of the guns. Why he is in trouble is irrelevant at that moment. Absolutely. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:39:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's fashionable on ARF to hate on SEALs and Marines, nothing new here. Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. Wait, so the source in the OP is now an official AAR? Who knew? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:43:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryIt's beautiful! |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:43:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's fashionable on ARF to hate on SEALs and Marines, nothing new here. Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. Which is why I keep my mouth shut on such subjects, usually. 17 years as a pogue of various stripes did not qualify me to judge a field or flag grade officer's judgement and decisions, especially in a situation I know nothing about. JO's are another matter all together 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 3:52:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
U Awesome! You're gonna make new friends with that one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
U Quoted:
Quoted:
Have we done this one yet?? I know many held Mattis up as a great wartime General, but after reading "The Only thing Worth Dying For". I am not so sure he is that great of a leader and to me he didn't exhibit what most people think of Marines. I talked to both my brother and sister (both Marines) they were shocked to hear of his actions. Looking out the door at the parked helicopters—including four Cobra gunships, four transport CH-53s, and six dual-rotor heavy-lift CH-46s—Lee picked up the radio and informed Task Force Dagger that the Marines at Camp Rhino were the closest Americans in a position to respond, a 45-minute helicopter flight away. Meanwhile, Lee’s boss—Major Rob Cairnes, the B-team commander—was running across the flat, barren landscape to General Mattis’ command post, located in one of the few hard structures on the base, a single-story concrete building. He informed the Marine general, face-to-face, that a presumed mortar or artillery attack on a Green Beret position had occurred and that the wounded needed immediate evacuation. Mattis asked if they were still in contact and wanted more specifics, which Cairnes did not have.
“Well, if they’ve taken fire,” said the general, “and you can’t tell me definitively how they got all scuffed up, I’m not going to send anything until you can assure me that the situation on the ground is secure.” Mattis went on to explain that there were nearly a thousand Marines at Camp Rhino for him to worry about, and he was not willing to dilute base security and risk sending his air squadron on a dangerous daylight mission just to assist an unknown number of casualties. So what does GD say, a Marine General refusing to send help when American Servicemen are dying? army supports marines. marines do not support army. this is a known fact. when you have an brigade + equivilent falling in on half a province, they still complain there aren't enough. the marines entire afghanistan campaign was a largely self-congratulatory circle jerk of the random invasion of a worthless town as the capstone LFX for medals and fitreps every six months. Awesome! You're gonna make new friends with that one. First the Air Force, now the Marines. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:01:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wow! 3 whole years! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's fashionable on ARF to hate on SEALs and Marines, nothing new here. Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. Glad I served as a Marine grunt then, sunshine! wow! 3 whole years! Think it was more like 8 years (IIRC) in a service that is very infantry-centric. Don't be jealous. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:04:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wow! 3 whole years! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's fashionable on ARF to hate on SEALs and Marines, nothing new here. Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. Glad I served as a Marine grunt then, sunshine! wow! 3 whole years! I have no idea where you got that one. 2 enlistments, 2 extensions. 8.5 yrs, honorable, and so on. I just tire of the "I'm the grouchy old man who complains about GD and the military" schtick. If you're constantly being negative, you might have a problem.. Anyway, we might meet up at a VAHTF shoot, I won't have a chip on my shoulder
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:05:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First the Air Force, now the Marines. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
U Quoted:
Quoted:
Have we done this one yet?? I know many held Mattis up as a great wartime General, but after reading "The Only thing Worth Dying For". I am not so sure he is that great of a leader and to me he didn't exhibit what most people think of Marines. I talked to both my brother and sister (both Marines) they were shocked to hear of his actions. Looking out the door at the parked helicopters—including four Cobra gunships, four transport CH-53s, and six dual-rotor heavy-lift CH-46s—Lee picked up the radio and informed Task Force Dagger that the Marines at Camp Rhino were the closest Americans in a position to respond, a 45-minute helicopter flight away. Meanwhile, Lee’s boss—Major Rob Cairnes, the B-team commander—was running across the flat, barren landscape to General Mattis’ command post, located in one of the few hard structures on the base, a single-story concrete building. He informed the Marine general, face-to-face, that a presumed mortar or artillery attack on a Green Beret position had occurred and that the wounded needed immediate evacuation. Mattis asked if they were still in contact and wanted more specifics, which Cairnes did not have.
“Well, if they’ve taken fire,” said the general, “and you can’t tell me definitively how they got all scuffed up, I’m not going to send anything until you can assure me that the situation on the ground is secure.” Mattis went on to explain that there were nearly a thousand Marines at Camp Rhino for him to worry about, and he was not willing to dilute base security and risk sending his air squadron on a dangerous daylight mission just to assist an unknown number of casualties. So what does GD say, a Marine General refusing to send help when American Servicemen are dying? army supports marines. marines do not support army. this is a known fact. when you have an brigade + equivilent falling in on half a province, they still complain there aren't enough. the marines entire afghanistan campaign was a largely self-congratulatory circle jerk of the random invasion of a worthless town as the capstone LFX for medals and fitreps every six months. Awesome! You're gonna make new friends with that one. First the Air Force, now the Marines. every service has its negatives. I'll tear a new asshole into any branch of service for its faults. I have openly stated my admiration for many aspects of marine culture. but they have a very earned reputation of being selfish as a branch of service. the same marines brain washed into thinking the navy abandoned them at guadacanal think its groovy to let some doggie fucks die because, well, we don't know the situation. marines have an institutional attitude of, whats yours is mine, whats mine is mine. and, afghanistan specific, the semi annual epic battle of garmshir, nad ali, marjah, etc etc etc were giant wastes of men and material that existed so that each MEB commander could have a big named battle. You want to talk about the goat rope of korengal or the stupidity of a squad sized LP/OP at keating or creating an ANA tashkill designed to repulse soviet armor in Fulda? I can do that, too. If the truth hurts, wipe some vagisil on it and take a midol. I don't really give a fuck. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:06:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no idea where you got that one. 2 enlistments, 2 extensions. 8.5 yrs, honorable, and so on. I just tire of the "I'm the grouchy old man who complains about GD and the military" schtick. If you're constantly being negative, you might have a problem.. Anyway, we might meet up at a VAHTF shoot, I won't have a chip on my shoulder Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's fashionable on ARF to hate on SEALs and Marines, nothing new here. Its fashionable for those who know nothing of the profession of arms to opine on subjects based upon hollywood movies and ghost written books. Glad I served as a Marine grunt then, sunshine! wow! 3 whole years! I have no idea where you got that one. 2 enlistments, 2 extensions. 8.5 yrs, honorable, and so on. I just tire of the "I'm the grouchy old man who complains about GD and the military" schtick. If you're constantly being negative, you might have a problem.. Anyway, we might meet up at a VAHTF shoot, I won't have a chip on my shoulder You started off confusing truth with hate. and since I leave next week, I will probably miss the next VAHTF. Sorry I missed you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:10:04 PM EDT
[#24]
How many aircraft have been shot down in this exact scenario?
Taliban have set up ambushes anticipating a big, slow chopper would be rushing in for support. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:10:46 PM EDT
[#25]
If he had shotgunned a rescue attempt and lost a bunch of lives and assets in an ambush he'd be known as a modern day Custer.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:14:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If he had shotgunned a rescue attempt and lost a bunch of lives and assets in an ambush he'd be known as a modern day Custer. well he made 4 stars. so I guess from that perspective, good call. Just hope it isn't you with your ass out hanging I suppose. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:14:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Way to go Sylvan.
Misrepresent the man's service and duration, and then lecture him on "truth". 
Classic case of talking out your ass..... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:16:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Way to go Sylvan. Misrepresent the man's service and duration, and then lecture him on "truth".
Classic case of talking out your ass..... Not a deliberate misrepresentation. There is a difference. No tank, you make assumptions. sometimes they are wrong. but I do see the marines got their guard hairs up. can we talk guadalcanal in this thread? as long as we are going to do it right. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:17:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
and, afghanistan specific, the semi annual epic battle of garmshir, nad ali, marjah, etc etc etc were giant wastes of men and material that existed so that each MEB commander could have a big named battle. Ive fought in Garmshir, Nad Ali, Marjah, and Sangin in the past 8 months. I will attest to the fact that all these "offensives" that were run there for years were indeed wastes of time. They are right back to where they were before now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:22:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely. Calculated. Unknown casualties, unknown enemy, unknown situation. No commander is going to commit his troops under those conditions. In order to make a calculated risk you have to have at least SOME information to make a calculation from. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow...some people need to get the sand out of their vaginas. I was just asking a simple question and for some input from those who served in AFG. No you weren't. If you had been you wouldn't have included the part about servicemen dying and him doing nothing. It is fact that he did nothing, it is fact that others in his command felt they should have done something. If that hurts your feelings, who gives a shit. I understand very well about risk v. reward, but getting up everyday puts you at risk. When peoples lives are on the line you have to take some calculated risk. Absolutely. Calculated. Unknown casualties, unknown enemy, unknown situation. No commander is going to commit his troops under those conditions. In order to make a calculated risk you have to have at least SOME information to make a calculation from. Maybe I spent to much time in the Cav, but in the Army we have this whole concept of reconnaissance in force, specifically designed to feel out the enemy and answer those very questions. Not sure how else you could get those questions answered. An SF A Team sure isn't equipped to answer them in most cases. Ride to the sound of the guns. Unless you aren't sure how many guns, or where they're pointing. Wait until some ill-defined "other" answers those questions for you. That's another approach. EDIT: I guess I should have kept reading. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:23:42 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ive fought in Garmshir, Nad Ali, Marjah, and Sangin in the past 8 months. I will attest to the fact that all these "offensives" that were run there for years were indeed wastes of time. They are right back to where they were before now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
and, afghanistan specific, the semi annual epic battle of garmshir, nad ali, marjah, etc etc etc were giant wastes of men and material that existed so that each MEB commander could have a big named battle. Ive fought in Garmshir, Nad Ali, Marjah, and Sangin in the past 8 months. I will attest to the fact that all these "offensives" that were run there for years were indeed wastes of time. They are right back to where they were before now. What is your opinion on the goals in Afghanistan? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:27:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a deliberate misrepresentation. There is a difference. No tank, you make assumptions. sometimes they are wrong. but I do see the marines got their guard hairs up. can we talk guadalcanal in this thread? as long as we are going to do it right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Way to go Sylvan. Misrepresent the man's service and duration, and then lecture him on "truth".
Classic case of talking out your ass..... Not a deliberate misrepresentation. There is a difference. No tank, you make assumptions. sometimes they are wrong. but I do see the marines got their guard hairs up. can we talk guadalcanal in this thread? as long as we are going to do it right. If we're *really* going to do this right, lets talk about the Army's new female infantry officers. "So easy, even a woman can do it" 
Ok, that was a low blow. I apologize in advance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:30:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If he had shotgunned a rescue attempt and lost a bunch of lives and assets in an ambush he'd be known as a modern day Custer. One of two things could have ben happening. There were men dying that needed evac and no enemy threat of significance. There was an active enemy threat which is just the kind of thing we have combat forces designed to react to and mitigate. Hypothetically, if I were a general and there was a big dust-up in my AO and I had no intel on it, I wouldn't be as upset with the guy telling me only partial info as I would be my TOC and my own assets for having zero info. But, call me crazy and unreasonable. Wouldn't be the first time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:51:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It kind of sounds like he was saying that he wasn't willing to send his guys in blind without knowing what the situation was. If so, that seems somewhat reasonable. This. but still. he could have sent at least CAS. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 4:59:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. but still. he could have sent at least CAS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It kind of sounds like he was saying that he wasn't willing to send his guys in blind without knowing what the situation was. If so, that seems somewhat reasonable. This. but still. he could have sent at least CAS. Do you mean fixed or rotary wing? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 5:01:47 PM EDT
[#36]
I use Mattis in my sig line as I thought that was some cool shit to say. As for Mattis the man I've heard mixed reviews...have 2 close buddies that were Marine HUMINT'rs during Fallujah and reported directly to Mattis. They loved him. Other Jar head buddies and some Army guys I know detest him. My only experience with him was giving him a brief when I was working C-IED issues and he was CDR Jiffy Com. Seemed ok as far a 4 stars go.
As far as the ODA and him not supporting don't know enough to make a call. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 5:09:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is your opinion on the goals in Afghanistan? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
and, afghanistan specific, the semi annual epic battle of garmshir, nad ali, marjah, etc etc etc were giant wastes of men and material that existed so that each MEB commander could have a big named battle. Ive fought in Garmshir, Nad Ali, Marjah, and Sangin in the past 8 months. I will attest to the fact that all these "offensives" that were run there for years were indeed wastes of time. They are right back to where they were before now. What is your opinion on the goals in Afghanistan? As usual we called it way too early, but even with conventional forces here we weren't applying them correctly, namely utilizing targeting and intelligence to the best of our abilities. The Afghan logistics system is probably the worst failure I have seen in both conflicts, we gave them a system we use but would not work for them, and threw them out on their own. So much waste, both in material and potential. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 5:23:51 PM EDT
[#38]
I think there's too many accounts of GEN Mattis being a good leader to condemn him over one account. Personally I've spun up QRF for adjacent units even when all we had available was three gun trucks with a dismount each, I'd hope others would accept that risk when I'm getting my shit pushed in too, but none of us were there in that room.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 5:41:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As usual we called it way too early, but even with conventional forces here we weren't applying them correctly, namely utilizing targeting and intelligence to the best of our abilities. The Afghan logistics system is probably the worst failure I have seen in both conflicts, we gave them a system we use but would not work for them, and threw them out on their own. So much waste, both in material and potential. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
and, afghanistan specific, the semi annual epic battle of garmshir, nad ali, marjah, etc etc etc were giant wastes of men and material that existed so that each MEB commander could have a big named battle. Ive fought in Garmshir, Nad Ali, Marjah, and Sangin in the past 8 months. I will attest to the fact that all these "offensives" that were run there for years were indeed wastes of time. They are right back to where they were before now. What is your opinion on the goals in Afghanistan? As usual we called it way too early, but even with conventional forces here we weren't applying them correctly, namely utilizing targeting and intelligence to the best of our abilities. The Afghan logistics system is probably the worst failure I have seen in both conflicts, we gave them a system we use but would not work for them, and threw them out on their own. So much waste, both in material and potential. How has it gone on this long without a clear strategy for an acceptable end-state? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 5:46:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How has it gone on this long without a clear strategy for an acceptable end-state? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
and, afghanistan specific, the semi annual epic battle of garmshir, nad ali, marjah, etc etc etc were giant wastes of men and material that existed so that each MEB commander could have a big named battle. Ive fought in Garmshir, Nad Ali, Marjah, and Sangin in the past 8 months. I will attest to the fact that all these "offensives" that were run there for years were indeed wastes of time. They are right back to where they were before now. What is your opinion on the goals in Afghanistan? As usual we called it way too early, but even with conventional forces here we weren't applying them correctly, namely utilizing targeting and intelligence to the best of our abilities. The Afghan logistics system is probably the worst failure I have seen in both conflicts, we gave them a system we use but would not work for them, and threw them out on their own. So much waste, both in material and potential. How has it gone on this long without a clear strategy for an acceptable end-state? Wars and insurgencies end when they are over, not when you meet the date you set on your calendar. We have always had a clear strategy, but that doesn't always work, or may take longer than our will to be there is, as is the case now. Then the enemy gets his vote too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 5:51:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
army supports marines. marines do not support army. this is a known fact. when you have an brigade + equivilent falling in on half a province, they still complain there aren't enough. the marines entire afghanistan campaign was a largely self-congratulatory circle jerk of the random invasion of a worthless town as the capstone LFX for medals and fitreps every six months. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Have we done this one yet?? I know many held Mattis up as a great wartime General, but after reading "The Only thing Worth Dying For". I am not so sure he is that great of a leader and to me he didn't exhibit what most people think of Marines. I talked to both my brother and sister (both Marines) they were shocked to hear of his actions. Looking out the door at the parked helicopters—including four Cobra gunships, four transport CH-53s, and six dual-rotor heavy-lift CH-46s—Lee picked up the radio and informed Task Force Dagger that the Marines at Camp Rhino were the closest Americans in a position to respond, a 45-minute helicopter flight away. Meanwhile, Lee’s boss—Major Rob Cairnes, the B-team commander—was running across the flat, barren landscape to General Mattis’ command post, located in one of the few hard structures on the base, a single-story concrete building. He informed the Marine general, face-to-face, that a presumed mortar or artillery attack on a Green Beret position had occurred and that the wounded needed immediate evacuation. Mattis asked if they were still in contact and wanted more specifics, which Cairnes did not have.
“Well, if they’ve taken fire,” said the general, “and you can’t tell me definitively how they got all scuffed up, I’m not going to send anything until you can assure me that the situation on the ground is secure.” Mattis went on to explain that there were nearly a thousand Marines at Camp Rhino for him to worry about, and he was not willing to dilute base security and risk sending his air squadron on a dangerous daylight mission just to assist an unknown number of casualties. So what does GD say, a Marine General refusing to send help when American Servicemen are dying? army supports marines. marines do not support army. this is a known fact. when you have an brigade + equivilent falling in on half a province, they still complain there aren't enough. the marines entire afghanistan campaign was a largely self-congratulatory circle jerk of the random invasion of a worthless town as the capstone LFX for medals and fitreps every six months. You're just jelly you weren't there with us. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 5:59:01 PM EDT
[#42]
A field grade officer begs you for support, and you refuse. There were enough assets available to develop the situation and make contact with the smallest element and execute extraction for fellow Americans in trouble. GEN Mattis failed plain and simple. The USMC cranks out highly motivated individuals, but they cling to SOPs, traditions, and generally lack adaptability to execute in a fluid environment. I have first hand experience with their outright refusal to provide escort for Army aviation MEDEVAC and SOF operations in what was RC-SW. Totally inexcusable and narrow minded. Don't get me wrong, my former service (army) has more than fair share of problems themselves, but I never served in an organzation that refused to help or hid behind an request process being violated to say "no".
*yes I have literally zero posts, I have no tank. I just felt the need to vent. I know some people that were wounded in that incident. No I'm not SOF. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 6:06:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wars and insurgencies end when they are over, not when you meet the date you set on your calendar. We have always had a clear strategy, but that doesn't always work, or may take longer than our will to be there is, as is the case now. Then the enemy gets his vote too. Stop it with that truth up in here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 6:24:00 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A field grade officer begs you for support, and you refuse. There were enough assets available to develop the situation and make contact with the smallest element and execute extraction for fellow Americans in trouble. GEN Mattis failed plain and simple. The USMC cranks out highly motivated individuals, but they cling to SOPs, traditions, and generally lack adaptability to execute in a fluid environment. I have first hand experience with their outright refusal to provide escort for Army aviation MEDEVAC and SOF operations in what was RC-SW. Totally inexcusable and narrow minded. Don't get me wrong, my former service (army) has more than fair share of problems themselves, but I never served in an organzation that refused to help or hid behind an request process being violated to say "no". *yes I have literally zero posts, I have no tank. I just felt the need to vent. I know some people that were wounded in that incident. No I'm not SOF. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile 13 years , two,posts. Damn |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 6:41:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is your opinion on the goals in Afghanistan? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
and, afghanistan specific, the semi annual epic battle of garmshir, nad ali, marjah, etc etc etc were giant wastes of men and material that existed so that each MEB commander could have a big named battle. Ive fought in Garmshir, Nad Ali, Marjah, and Sangin in the past 8 months. I will attest to the fact that all these "offensives" that were run there for years were indeed wastes of time. They are right back to where they were before now. What is your opinion on the goals in Afghanistan? Did you write that with a straight face? Are you suggesting we have had, or ever had, goals for our mission in Afghanistan?   
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 6:45:20 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use Mattis in my sig line as I thought that was some cool shit to say. As for Mattis the man I've heard mixed reviews...have 2 close buddies that were Marine HUMINT'rs during Fallujah and reported directly to Mattis. They loved him. Other Jar head buddies and some Army guys I know detest him. My only experience with him was giving him a brief when I was working C-IED issues and he was CDR Jiffy Com. Seemed ok as far a 4 stars go. As far as the ODA and him not supporting don't know enough to make a call. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use Mattis in my sig line as I thought that was some cool shit to say. As for Mattis the man I've heard mixed reviews...have 2 close buddies that were Marine HUMINT'rs during Fallujah and reported directly to Mattis. They loved him. Other Jar head buddies and some Army guys I know detest him. My only experience with him was giving him a brief when I was working C-IED issues and he was CDR Jiffy Com. Seemed ok as far a 4 stars go. As far as the ODA and him not supporting don't know enough to make a call. Don't worry. General Ron Lewis evened the score. To get the full impact of what he had to say, we are reproducing on our pages, some of the raw INTEL we received. This is a first for this investigative website.
We have taken the liberty to put in italics certain parts of the communication that are especially relevant to the shocking charges contained therein. " .. . as a DUSTOFF medic, C/168, standing under spinning rotor blades in OEF 08-09, sometimes for 30 to 45 minutes waiting for him [then COL Ron Lewis] to go through his officer career risk management matrix for mission/launch/landing approval, soldiers bled to death, at least a dozen or so. "Lewis is an absolute micro-manager. I recall four marines bled to death b/c nobody on his staff dared interrupt his shower time to inform him of the 9 line. "My commander got reassigned to HQ in BAF for standing up on that one. http://www.militarycorruption.com/ronlewis3.htm |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 6:47:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't worry. General Ron Lewis evened the score. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I use Mattis in my sig line as I thought that was some cool shit to say. As for Mattis the man I've heard mixed reviews...have 2 close buddies that were Marine HUMINT'rs during Fallujah and reported directly to Mattis. They loved him. Other Jar head buddies and some Army guys I know detest him. My only experience with him was giving him a brief when I was working C-IED issues and he was CDR Jiffy Com. Seemed ok as far a 4 stars go. As far as the ODA and him not supporting don't know enough to make a call. Don't worry. General Ron Lewis evened the score. To get the full impact of what he had to say, we are reproducing on our pages, some of the raw INTEL we received. This is a first for this investigative website.
We have taken the liberty to put in italics certain parts of the communication that are especially relevant to the shocking charges contained therein. " .. . as a DUSTOFF medic, C/168, standing under spinning rotor blades in OEF 08-09, sometimes for 30 to 45 minutes waiting for him [then COL Ron Lewis] to go through his officer career risk management matrix for mission/launch/landing approval, soldiers bled to death, at least a dozen or so. "Lewis is an absolute micro-manager. I recall four marines bled to death b/c nobody on his staff dared interrupt his shower time to inform him of the 9 line. "My commander got reassigned to HQ in BAF for standing up on that one. http://www.militarycorruption.com/ronlewis3.htm What a sack of shit Thsts criminal |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 6:49:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What a sack of shit Thsts criminal Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I use Mattis in my sig line as I thought that was some cool shit to say. As for Mattis the man I've heard mixed reviews...have 2 close buddies that were Marine HUMINT'rs during Fallujah and reported directly to Mattis. They loved him. Other Jar head buddies and some Army guys I know detest him. My only experience with him was giving him a brief when I was working C-IED issues and he was CDR Jiffy Com. Seemed ok as far a 4 stars go. As far as the ODA and him not supporting don't know enough to make a call. Don't worry. General Ron Lewis evened the score. To get the full impact of what he had to say, we are reproducing on our pages, some of the raw INTEL we received. This is a first for this investigative website.
We have taken the liberty to put in italics certain parts of the communication that are especially relevant to the shocking charges contained therein. " .. . as a DUSTOFF medic, C/168, standing under spinning rotor blades in OEF 08-09, sometimes for 30 to 45 minutes waiting for him [then COL Ron Lewis] to go through his officer career risk management matrix for mission/launch/landing approval, soldiers bled to death, at least a dozen or so. "Lewis is an absolute micro-manager. I recall four marines bled to death b/c nobody on his staff dared interrupt his shower time to inform him of the 9 line. "My commander got reassigned to HQ in BAF for standing up on that one. http://www.militarycorruption.com/ronlewis3.htm What a sack of shit Thsts criminal Makes me mental just thinking about it... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 6:50:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you write that with a straight face? Are you suggesting we have had, or ever had, goals for our mission in Afghanistan? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What is your opinion on the goals in Afghanistan? Did you write that with a straight face? Are you suggesting we have had, or ever had, goals for our mission in Afghanistan? I have a suspicion as to what they really are, at a strategic level, but I don't hear very many actually say it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/12/2016 6:56:37 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. He was just waiting for more information, lest he get sucked into a prepared ambush. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It kind of sounds like he was saying that he wasn't willing to send his guys in blind without knowing what the situation was. If so, that seems somewhat reasonable. This. He was just waiting for more information, lest he get sucked into a prepared ambush. This. There is such a thing in OPFOR as an anti-helo ambush. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
