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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:03:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s a square column (like the one on the left) to the right, outside of every pic posted. That I’ve been told he took the shot from. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here's something else to consider. He's a relatively young man, and if the reporting is accurate, he's carried for less than three weeks. Barely past the "wally walk" stage. Another image of the food court I saw posted, with a more normal camera focal length lens https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/58237/qoqyuwj11nc91_jpg-2459540.JPG Those tiles are probably 18" tiles based on the chair. I can only count about 14 from the closest visible to the first ring, maybe 3? tiles in that ring. Can't see well enough to count past that. There’s a square column (like the one on the left) to the right, outside of every pic posted. That I’ve been told he took the shot from. Decent cover as well then. And it looks like 40 yds is about right. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:06:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine trying to be an incel maskfag mass shooter and getting yeeted by the grip zone 
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:15:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The average person is a terrible pistol shot. Recently I did some shooting with a buddy of mine, he's a gun guy and a former LEO. I handed him my 10mm P220, we were shooting at soda cans at like 7 yards and his shots were all over the place, he was pulling shots multiple feet off the targets. I dunno if it was just recoil he wasn't used to or what, but it was a good reminder at how bad most people are at shooting handguns. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'd like to see some confirmation on the 40 yards factoid. That is an incredible distance and quite frankly unless the kid is a professional shooter, I don't believe it, and in looking at the pictures of the food court I don't think that distance adds up. Good shooting for sure, but there's no reason to exaggerate the claims either. Jesus, some of you really need to shoot more. A torso-sized target at 40 yards is not a difficult shot, especially when you're braced. Add in adrenaline/likelihood of death and it becomes tougher but it is most certainly doable. I shoot at 45 yards regularly off my deck with all my pistols. I ring headshots on the steel silhouette without a problem. If you're the type to stand in one spot on the firing line and shoot at 10 yards, yeah you probably think 40 yards is really fucking hard with a pistol. The average person is a terrible pistol shot. Recently I did some shooting with a buddy of mine, he's a gun guy and a former LEO. I handed him my 10mm P220, we were shooting at soda cans at like 7 yards and his shots were all over the place, he was pulling shots multiple feet off the targets. I dunno if it was just recoil he wasn't used to or what, but it was a good reminder at how bad most people are at shooting handguns. Absolutely. And that goes especially for the person who claimed that the average CCW'er probably practices more than the average LEO. NOPE. I know quite a few CCW'ers who have a serious case of 'magic talisman of protection' mentality. They DON'T regularly practice shooting, and after a little questioning, apparently NEVER practice their draw from concealment. A few whom I've gone shooting with, also seem to have never considered the difference between target/marksmanship style shooting vs defensive/combat/competition style shooting and apparently NEVER practice the latter, despite having carried for years. The rare occasions that they go shooting, all they do is the slow, aimed fire, taking 3-5 seconds to line up each shot, then exhale and slowly squeeze the trigger. That they practice rarely, is evidenced by the atrocious groups while shooting like that. I'd consider 2" groups at 10 yards, just OK for slow, aimed fire. A one hole group @ 10 yards would be good, but some of them are occasionally MISSING the silhouette on a full IPSC target at FIVE yards, while shooting slowly! Then when they see me practicing fast doubles from low ready, Mozambiques and Bill Drills at 10 yards, they go, "Oh, that's cool!". But when they try it at 10 - 15 FEET (from the aimed position. I'd probably go hide if they tried from low ready), NONE of their shots are even on the cardboard because they've apparently NEVER practiced fast trigger pulls, and consequently jerk BADLY when they try it. I'd be worried for any bystanders if they ever had to use their CCW defensively. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:19:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Piece of shit should have pulled the trigger in the first photo. Yes, he should have. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:21:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What’s with the fudds and their gun shop gun law bullshit in this thread? Seems like they don't even own guns and just repeat bullshit that they think is the law? |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:25:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: similar may have been posted and i'm posting in both big threads, trying to get slightly scientific with some distance. This is 160ft from one end of the measuring "tape" to the bathrooms. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/168726/gw_JPG-2459755.JPG It said the bad guy came out of the bathrooms and then started shooting at the food court. They didn't say where he was exactly yet. He probably walked closer to the food court first and then started shooting.Your measurement starts a good 20ft from the doors to the bathrooms, where the corridor opens back up into the main room.  Picture of the dead guy looks like he almost made it back into the bathroom. Judging by the width between the walls where he's laying and the pattern on the floor. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:29:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Glad the idiot got gatted. That is some seriously good shooting by Eli.
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but we need to be thankful that the perp was not wearing body armor. Unless headshots or pelvic girdle shots are happening, that could have ended differently. I'm not really a fan of 5.7, but I can see the value in it with certain rounds (from a handgun). |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:29:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How to say you don’t have any substantial experience with an RDS pistol without actually saying it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:  Buying a red dot won't help you hit at 50 yards. Practicing with whatever setup you have will help you hit at 50 yards. How to say you don’t have any substantial experience with an RDS pistol without actually saying it. Reading is fundamental. Whatever setup you have can include red dots. An untrained shooter with a red dot on a pistol would likely still be doing the 'red dot wiggle' and looking for the dot that wasn't there because their grip and presentation are poor. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:31:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Greenwood PD chief said it would not be released as it was "way to graphic". Reading another story today, apparently the first person shot, was also armed. He was standing right by the restroom and was the first person shot. Just dumb luck, he probably never had a chance as he was shot as soon as the suspect exited. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I want to see the surveilance camera footage asap. Sounds like a great scenario to watch. Greenwood PD chief said it would not be released as it was "way to graphic". Reading another story today, apparently the first person shot, was also armed. He was standing right by the restroom and was the first person shot. Just dumb luck, he probably never had a chance as he was shot as soon as the suspect exited. I have no interest in seeing the innocent people gunned down but it would be an interesting video to see. To see Eli's reaction and then the scumbags reaction to drawing almost immediate fire. This shitty part about a situation like this, if you are the very first person targeted, you have almost no chance. Very sad that three innocent people were killed. Fuck the scumbag murderer. I hope his death hurt. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:34:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glad the idiot got gatted. That is some seriously good shooting by Eli. I don't know if this has been mentioned, but we need to be thankful that the perp was not wearing body armor. Unless headshots or pelvic girdle shots are happening, that could have ended differently. I'm not really a fan of 5.7, but I can see the value in it with certain rounds (from a handgun). That's betting on them not wearing plates. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:39:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Train as you fight, cites a steel gong that doesn’t move and doesn’t shoot back. ROFL. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 100% truth. we shoot steel gongs at 100 yards routinely with our pistols. train as you fight fight as you train Train as you fight, cites a steel gong that doesn’t move and doesn’t shoot back. ROFL. So, how do you think this guy was able to perform? Think this was his first time shooting at this distance? I see a bunch of folks commenting that they should practice it. However, then in the same breath, dismiss someone else for having built the skill to do so, because “high stress, mall, threat shooting back”, etc. So do you believe this dude somehow practiced 40-50yd shooting under some sort of stress? Does he have someone shoot back at him when he’s at the range to better master his craft? Or do you think he just shot at some long distance targets once in a while, understood what it’s like to shoot at that distance, and just executed when he needed to. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:41:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's betting on them not wearing plates. red dot = easier head shots For the anti- red dot folks/ fudds I have taken several, new, never before shot a pistol shooters out I tell them, dot on target, press trigger straight back They say "OMG so easy" and "it's like cheating" and "TOO easy" |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 12:51:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plausible, what the hell was he doing in the bathroom for an hour. Watching 'motivational' speeches/videos or talking to his handler. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I hope we get top find out what was on the phone and laptop. My trust of the letter agencies is non-existent. Plausible, what the hell was he doing in the bathroom for an hour. Watching 'motivational' speeches/videos or talking to his handler. And/or taking some kind of drug that would support anti-social behavior? |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:13:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryIIRC, a former NYPD stakeout officer said that if they fall with their ankles crossed, the fight is over. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:22:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Absolutely. And that goes especially for the person who claimed that the average CCW'er probably practices more than the average LEO. NOPE. I know quite a few CCW'ers who have a serious case of 'magic talisman of protection' mentality. They DON'T regularly practice shooting, and after a little questioning, apparently NEVER practice their draw from concealment. A few whom I've gone shooting with, also seem to have never considered the difference between target/marksmanship style shooting vs defensive/combat/competition style shooting and apparently NEVER practice the latter, despite having carried for years. The rare occasions that they go shooting, all they do is the slow, aimed fire, taking 3-5 seconds to line up each shot, then exhale and slowly squeeze the trigger. That they practice rarely, is evidenced by the atrocious groups while shooting like that. I'd consider 2" groups at 10 yards, just OK for slow, aimed fire. A one hole group @ 10 yards would be good, but some of them are occasionally MISSING the silhouette on a full IPSC target at FIVE yards, while shooting slowly! Then when they see me practicing fast doubles from low ready, Mozambiques and Bill Drills at 10 yards, they go, "Oh, that's cool!". But when they try it at 10 - 15 FEET (from the aimed position. I'd probably go hide if they tried from low ready), NONE of their shots are even on the cardboard because they've apparently NEVER practiced fast trigger pulls, and consequently jerk BADLY when they try it. I'd be worried for any bystanders if they ever had to use their CCW defensively. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'd like to see some confirmation on the 40 yards factoid. That is an incredible distance and quite frankly unless the kid is a professional shooter, I don't believe it, and in looking at the pictures of the food court I don't think that distance adds up. Good shooting for sure, but there's no reason to exaggerate the claims either. Jesus, some of you really need to shoot more. A torso-sized target at 40 yards is not a difficult shot, especially when you're braced. Add in adrenaline/likelihood of death and it becomes tougher but it is most certainly doable. I shoot at 45 yards regularly off my deck with all my pistols. I ring headshots on the steel silhouette without a problem. If you're the type to stand in one spot on the firing line and shoot at 10 yards, yeah you probably think 40 yards is really fucking hard with a pistol. The average person is a terrible pistol shot. Recently I did some shooting with a buddy of mine, he's a gun guy and a former LEO. I handed him my 10mm P220, we were shooting at soda cans at like 7 yards and his shots were all over the place, he was pulling shots multiple feet off the targets. I dunno if it was just recoil he wasn't used to or what, but it was a good reminder at how bad most people are at shooting handguns. Absolutely. And that goes especially for the person who claimed that the average CCW'er probably practices more than the average LEO. NOPE. I know quite a few CCW'ers who have a serious case of 'magic talisman of protection' mentality. They DON'T regularly practice shooting, and after a little questioning, apparently NEVER practice their draw from concealment. A few whom I've gone shooting with, also seem to have never considered the difference between target/marksmanship style shooting vs defensive/combat/competition style shooting and apparently NEVER practice the latter, despite having carried for years. The rare occasions that they go shooting, all they do is the slow, aimed fire, taking 3-5 seconds to line up each shot, then exhale and slowly squeeze the trigger. That they practice rarely, is evidenced by the atrocious groups while shooting like that. I'd consider 2" groups at 10 yards, just OK for slow, aimed fire. A one hole group @ 10 yards would be good, but some of them are occasionally MISSING the silhouette on a full IPSC target at FIVE yards, while shooting slowly! Then when they see me practicing fast doubles from low ready, Mozambiques and Bill Drills at 10 yards, they go, "Oh, that's cool!". But when they try it at 10 - 15 FEET (from the aimed position. I'd probably go hide if they tried from low ready), NONE of their shots are even on the cardboard because they've apparently NEVER practiced fast trigger pulls, and consequently jerk BADLY when they try it. I'd be worried for any bystanders if they ever had to use their CCW defensively. The average LEO qualifies once or MAYBE twice a year for 50 rounds. Let's not act like that is nearly enough to be proficient. Yet do more innocents get shot by police or concealed carriers? |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:24:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And/or taking some kind of drug that would support anti-social behavior? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hope we get top find out what was on the phone and laptop. My trust of the letter agencies is non-existent. Plausible, what the hell was he doing in the bathroom for an hour. Watching 'motivational' speeches/videos or talking to his handler. And/or taking some kind of drug that would support anti-social behavior? |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:26:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These spree shooters ALWAYS look like they ain’t been in some pussy since they came outta one.Ain’t no red blooded male that’s getting positive female energy even remotely thinking about killing up a bunch of random people.Our society is crumbling under the weight of mismanaged expectations that come from being inundated with imagery from things that we’ll never have or lifestyles we’ll never live. Great observation. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:27:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was probably just psyching himself up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hope we get top find out what was on the phone and laptop. My trust of the letter agencies is non-existent. Plausible, what the hell was he doing in the bathroom for an hour. Watching 'motivational' speeches/videos or talking to his handler. And/or taking some kind of drug that would support anti-social behavior? I would like to see a toxicology report. SSRIs? |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:27:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This incident as should shut down all the point shooters, and snubby from the sweatshirt pocket posters... but it won't. What??? As if someone could not train at close range in point shooting, working on presentation instincts. Then systematically backing away and transitioning to sighted fire. And that point shooting is great training to get a RDS into proper position to be useful quickly at longer ranges. How about training with compressed/compromised positions (what we are actually most likely to face); followed by point shooting as we can extend our hold and working on presentation that vastly improves the ability to get the dot quickly when needed. I have retired my snubbie; but it would be fine in certain situations if something better is not to hand; like letting the dog out while in your pajamas. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:33:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Operator: "911, what is your emergency?" Caller: "Hello? Yeah, there's some psycho here shooting everyone in the..." Operator: "In the what? Hello? Hello?" Caller: "Yeah, nevermind. Not anymore he's not."  Nice 
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:37:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Train as you fight, cites a steel gong that doesn’t move and doesn’t shoot back. ROFL. What moving target setup do you use? If you built it yourself, please post a thread with instructions. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/hes_right_you_know-328.jpg I too am interested in your moving target that shoots back training set up. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:48:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Raised by mommy. Fed soy and good feels. Won trophy for every thing. Never challenged for beliefs (see raised by mommy). Never had actual consequences beyond having to respawn on Xbox. Never told how the world really works. Incel, because he believed the bullshit from mommy about what females want. Somewhere along the line, dad checked out, left (tired of mommy's shit) or left his testicles in mommy's purse. Wired wrong, set loose with money, mix that with possible drugs from a therapist or the street and onset of BPD that isn't caught because the little shit acted like a little shit all the time anyway. I'd be betting on "raised by no one" or "raised by the internet" rather than raised by mommy. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 1:52:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems like they don't even own guns and just repeat bullshit that they think is the law? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What’s with the fudds and their gun shop gun law bullshit in this thread? Seems like they don't even own guns and just repeat bullshit that they think is the law? That was very strange and they seemed to be working together. What was the purpose of all of that? |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:22:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was very strange and they seemed to be working together. What was the purpose of all of that? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What’s with the fudds and their gun shop gun law bullshit in this thread? Seems like they don't even own guns and just repeat bullshit that they think is the law? That was very strange and they seemed to be working together. What was the purpose of all of that? I'm really not sure, but I too found it strange. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:24:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's something else to consider. He's a relatively young man, and if the reporting is accurate, he's carried for less than three weeks. Barely past the "wally walk" stage. Another image of the food court I saw posted, with a more normal camera focal length lens https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/58237/qoqyuwj11nc91_jpg-2459540.JPG Unless some how it was that massive square 'pillar' with the snack machines,, THAT might be 40 yards from the bathroom door? NAwwww i'm wrong :) that's not really a pillar. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:25:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Not sure why Greenwood Mall just rang a bell for me, could be the stroke, but we were there in March on our way back from Louisville and had lunch at The Cheesecake Factory. Looked like a decent place.
I’m not commenting on anything else. You guys keep purse swinging. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:30:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Operator: "911, what is your emergency?" Caller: "Hello? Yeah, there's some psycho here shooting everyone in the..." Operator: "In the what? Hello? Hello?" Caller: "Yeah, nevermind. Not anymore he's not." Nice Shame that's not the call record every time someone tries... |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:32:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it was a 9mm, he went down at the very first shot when the lungs blew clean out of his body. Then 9 anchor shots for a victory lap.  A 9mm Bullet Blows The Lung Out Of The Body MEME 
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:35:34 PM EDT
[#29]
From what I understand the first victim was also carrying and was waiting for his daughter to exit the bathroom so I assume he was standing fairly close to the bathroom and probably had no warning. The couple who were killed were eating at the seats near the bathroom.
I see a lot of spent casings by the shooter. I wonder if he was retreating there under fire or started shooting from there. That does look very close to the bathroom. I am surprised at the lack of blood too. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:46:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry you can't shoot, bro. Your butthurt reaction only proves that YOU suck so you think everyone sucks. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'd like to see some confirmation on the 40 yards factoid. That is an incredible distance and quite frankly unless the kid is a professional shooter, I don't believe it, and in looking at the pictures of the food court I don't think that distance adds up. Good shooting for sure, but there's no reason to exaggerate the claims either. Jesus, some of you really need to shoot more. A torso-sized target at 40 yards is not a difficult shot, especially when you're braced. Add in adrenaline/likelihood of death and it becomes tougher but it is most certainly doable. I shoot at 45 yards regularly off my deck with all my pistols. I ring headshots on the steel silhouette without a problem. If you're the type to stand in one spot on the firing line and shoot at 10 yards, yeah you probably think 40 yards is really fucking hard with a pistol. Oh yeah, hitting a steel plate in your backyard is exactly the same as hitting a skinny moving target at an unfamiliar range. Billy badass over here  I don't care how good you are on your own personal range, I bet you don't make 8/10 or even close to it in that scenario. 120 feet is not anything that the vast majority of pistol shooters are going to make 50% hits on much less 80%. Did you see the pictures? You know how easy it is for people to exaggerate or overestimate distances? I'd guess it was 40 feet, not 40 yards. Again, still great shooting from the young man but no reason for needless exaggeration. Sorry you can't shoot, bro. Your butthurt reaction only proves that YOU suck so you think everyone sucks. I wonder why you feel the need to try to flex when no one in this thread would be able to replicate that scenario at 120ft. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, maybe you should practice on stationary plates some more and imagine it was you making those magical shots. I don't see why blindly cheerleading obvious BS is helpful for anyone when the real story is just as good without it. Making 8/10 hits from 15 feet away is impressive by itself. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:50:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see a lot of spent casings by the shooter. I wonder if he was retreating there under fire or started shooting from there. That does look very close to the bathroom. I am surprised at the lack of blood too. To me, the shooter looks like he's laying there in the entrance way to the bathroom, based on the width of the area. And I count like 18-20 casings around him. It does look like he would have had to be still standing in the entrance to the bathroom during most of the shooting for all the cases to end up there. Unless somehow his AR ejected cases backwards and then around the corner. 
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:54:13 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder why you feel the need to try to flex when no one in this thread would be able to replicate that scenario at 120ft. Not a flex, but uh, I can replicate that. 
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Posted: 7/20/2022 2:58:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's betting on them not wearing plates. Quote HistoryQuoted: That's betting on them not wearing plates. Yeah, I was thinking about the Buffalo shooting. Dude was engaged right away, but had on soft armor. Quoted: red dot = easier head shots For the anti- red dot folks/ fudds I have taken several, new, never before shot a pistol shooters out I tell them, dot on target, press trigger straight back They say "OMG so easy" and "it's like cheating" and "TOO easy" Up until now, I had only briefly kicked around the idea of getting a new carry piece so I could put an RMR on it. But I am now seriously getting a new side arm with a higher ammo capacity and cuts for a red dot. I was fine with my Shield 1.0.....but....time to reconsider. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:00:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reading is fundamental. Whatever setup you have can include red dots. An untrained shooter with a red dot on a pistol would likely still be doing the 'red dot wiggle' and looking for the dot that wasn't there because their grip and presentation are poor. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Buying a red dot won't help you hit at 50 yards. Practicing with whatever setup you have will help you hit at 50 yards. How to say you don’t have any substantial experience with an RDS pistol without actually saying it. Reading is fundamental. Whatever setup you have can include red dots. An untrained shooter with a red dot on a pistol would likely still be doing the 'red dot wiggle' and looking for the dot that wasn't there because their grip and presentation are poor. Same applies to irons. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:09:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have no interest in seeing the innocent people gunned down but it would be an interesting video to see. To see Eli's reaction and then the scumbags reaction to drawing almost immediate fire. This shitty part about a situation like this, if you are the very first person targeted, you have almost no chance. Very sad that three innocent people were killed. Fuck the scumbag murderer. I hope his death hurt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I want to see the surveilance camera footage asap. Sounds like a great scenario to watch. Greenwood PD chief said it would not be released as it was "way to graphic". Reading another story today, apparently the first person shot, was also armed. He was standing right by the restroom and was the first person shot. Just dumb luck, he probably never had a chance as he was shot as soon as the suspect exited. I have no interest in seeing the innocent people gunned down but it would be an interesting video to see. To see Eli's reaction and then the scumbags reaction to drawing almost immediate fire. This shitty part about a situation like this, if you are the very first person targeted, you have almost no chance. Very sad that three innocent people were killed. Fuck the scumbag murderer. I hope his death hurt. I agree, no interest at all in seeing innocent people killed. What you said about the first person being targeted is true. According to reports I've read, the first victim shot was Mr. Gomez. He was also armed (another one of those guys "breaking the law" by carrying in the mall.. surprised the left isn't dancing on his grave). If what I read is accurate, he was standing right outside the restroom when this POS exited and got him first. He had almost no chance is my guess. Action will almost always beat reaction. I'd love to see Eli's actions. Frankly, I'm a teetoaler and I might crack a beer and watch that scumbag eat those 8 rounds. I still can't get over this lasting start to finish, 15 freaking seconds. I mean, I know we all love saying "When seconds count, the police are minutes away" and it is true... but 15 freaking seconds? I'd bet some folks were just getting through to 911 and it was already over, let alone getting officers dispatched. I can't wait till Guy Relford (Eli's attorney) has his radio show this Saturday. I'm sure he will only speak generally on the matter since he's representing the Eli.. but I'll be interested to hear his opinions, especially when this thing blows over and he can actually talk about it. Obviously this case will never see a Jury trial.. heck it might never even past a quick review by a prosecutor who's running late for lunch. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:12:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder why you feel the need to try to flex when no one in this thread would be able to replicate that scenario at 120ft. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, maybe you should practice on stationary plates some more and imagine it was you making those magical shots. I don't see why blindly cheerleading obvious BS is helpful for anyone when the real story is just as good without it. Making 8/10 hits from 15 feet away is impressive by itself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'd like to see some confirmation on the 40 yards factoid. That is an incredible distance and quite frankly unless the kid is a professional shooter, I don't believe it, and in looking at the pictures of the food court I don't think that distance adds up. Good shooting for sure, but there's no reason to exaggerate the claims either. Jesus, some of you really need to shoot more. A torso-sized target at 40 yards is not a difficult shot, especially when you're braced. Add in adrenaline/likelihood of death and it becomes tougher but it is most certainly doable. I shoot at 45 yards regularly off my deck with all my pistols. I ring headshots on the steel silhouette without a problem. If you're the type to stand in one spot on the firing line and shoot at 10 yards, yeah you probably think 40 yards is really fucking hard with a pistol. Oh yeah, hitting a steel plate in your backyard is exactly the same as hitting a skinny moving target at an unfamiliar range. Billy badass over here I don't care how good you are on your own personal range, I bet you don't make 8/10 or even close to it in that scenario. 120 feet is not anything that the vast majority of pistol shooters are going to make 50% hits on much less 80%. Did you see the pictures? You know how easy it is for people to exaggerate or overestimate distances? I'd guess it was 40 feet, not 40 yards. Again, still great shooting from the young man but no reason for needless exaggeration. Sorry you can't shoot, bro. Your butthurt reaction only proves that YOU suck so you think everyone sucks. I wonder why you feel the need to try to flex when no one in this thread would be able to replicate that scenario at 120ft. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, maybe you should practice on stationary plates some more and imagine it was you making those magical shots. I don't see why blindly cheerleading obvious BS is helpful for anyone when the real story is just as good without it. Making 8/10 hits from 15 feet away is impressive by itself. So your opinion is: "I can't do it, therefore this story is being embellished by the police." Also "just because you regularly train at 40+ yards doesn't mean you can do it against a live target." Go ahead and tell every firearms training organization on the planet that unless they're shooting at live targets, they're wasting their time. Stop digging that hole. Several others in this thread have pointed out that shots at the claimed distance aren't that difficult. Saunter off and lick your wounds... maybe go train a bit instead of calling bullshit on a story that the rest of us find believable. Move back from the 10 yard line, you might actually surprise yourself. I held 10 out of 10 on a torso target at 150 yards with iron sights on the first attempt by bracing against a pole. Making hits at distance is not magic, it's sight alignment and trigger control. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:15:16 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tinfoil time. The guys at Quantico ARE the group he was communicating with... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Has there been a reason identified why the dude went to shoot up a mall? I have a theory. He left his laptop in the oven set at max temp with a can of some kind of explosive aerosol. It never blew, but the laptop is damaged and, according to the presser, on its way to Quantico. He was in the restroom for an hour, and left his phone in the toilet water. I think he wanted to destroy his laptop and phone because he was in touch with a third party or enabler. He probably was on the phone doing a war dance with a buddy for the hour before he cooked off. I think they will find that he was either egged on by an on line associate or he was communicating with a group. Tinfoil time. The guys at Quantico ARE the group he was communicating with...  |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:22:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same applies to irons. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Buying a red dot won't help you hit at 50 yards. Practicing with whatever setup you have will help you hit at 50 yards. How to say you don’t have any substantial experience with an RDS pistol without actually saying it. Reading is fundamental. Whatever setup you have can include red dots. An untrained shooter with a red dot on a pistol would likely still be doing the 'red dot wiggle' and looking for the dot that wasn't there because their grip and presentation are poor. Same applies to irons. Absolutely true. I only initially commented on a poster who suggested that if Eli had a RDS on his handgun, that they were going to go out and buy one. So if he doesn't have a RDS on his handgun, were they not going to consider buying one? I was not trying to derail the thread into a RDS on pistols discussion. I was just trying to point out that buying a piece of gear is meaningless if you don't hit the range with it. Hopefully thread drift over. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:24:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine trying to be an incel maskfag mass shooter and getting yeeted by the grip zone Did the incel really get served yeetloaf with a side of grip zone? |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:25:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree, no interest at all in seeing innocent people killed. What you said about the first person being targeted is true. According to reports I've read, the first victim shot was Mr. Gomez. He was also armed (another one of those guys "breaking the law" by carrying in the mall.. surprised the left isn't dancing on his grave). If what I read is accurate, he was standing right outside the restroom when this POS exited and got him first. He had almost no chance is my guess. Action will almost always beat reaction. I'd love to see Eli's actions. Frankly, I'm a teetoaler and I might crack a beer and watch that scumbag eat those 8 rounds. I still can't get over this lasting start to finish, 15 freaking seconds. I mean, I know we all love saying "When seconds count, the police are minutes away" and it is true... but 15 freaking seconds? I'd bet some folks were just getting through to 911 and it was already over, let alone getting officers dispatched. I can't wait till Guy Relford (Eli's attorney) has his radio show this Saturday. I'm sure he will only speak generally on the matter since he's representing the Eli.. but I'll be interested to hear his opinions, especially when this thing blows over and he can actually talk about it. Obviously this case will never see a Jury trial.. heck it might never even past a quick review by a prosecutor who's running late for lunch. If I were Eli I would already have finished multiple phone conversations with Nick Sandman's lawyers.... I also frequently listen to Guy Relford. I like his show. He's a good asset to the firearms community and from all accounts a nice guy as well. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:26:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True that. I'll sit there with my P10C and ding a 12" plate at 50 yards all day, and people look at me like I'm gun Jesus.... it's not that hard people. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This. The black on a standard 50 yard pistol bull target is about 6-7 inches. It's a pretty standard pistol competition range. This was closer and supported. Impressive, yes. Especially under stress. But hardly difficult to believe. But. Shitloads of "gun guys" couldn't hit paper at that distance and would blame the trigger, the ammo, the sights, or pretty much anything except accepting they need to learn to shoot. I don't know if I could do it. I think I'll try this weekend. Haven't shot beyond 15 yards in decades. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:26:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Absolutely true. I only initially commented on a poster who suggested that if Eli had a RDS on his handgun, that they were going to go out and buy one. So if he doesn't have a RDS on his handgun, were they not going to consider buying one? I was not trying to derail the thread into a RDS on pistols discussion. I was just trying to point out that buying a piece of gear is meaningless if you don't hit the range with it. Hopefully thread drift over. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Buying a red dot won't help you hit at 50 yards. Practicing with whatever setup you have will help you hit at 50 yards. How to say you don’t have any substantial experience with an RDS pistol without actually saying it. Reading is fundamental. Whatever setup you have can include red dots. An untrained shooter with a red dot on a pistol would likely still be doing the 'red dot wiggle' and looking for the dot that wasn't there because their grip and presentation are poor. Same applies to irons. Absolutely true. I only initially commented on a poster who suggested that if Eli had a RDS on his handgun, that they were going to go out and buy one. So if he doesn't have a RDS on his handgun, were they not going to consider buying one? I was not trying to derail the thread into a RDS on pistols discussion. I was just trying to point out that buying a piece of gear is meaningless if you don't hit the range with it. Hopefully thread drift over. Absolutely fair. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:27:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I was thinking about the Buffalo shooting. Dude was engaged right away, but had on soft armor. Up until now, I had only briefly kicked around the idea of getting a new carry piece so I could put an RMR on it. But I am now seriously getting a new side arm with a higher ammo capacity and cuts for a red dot. I was fine with my Shield 1.0.....but....time to reconsider. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's betting on them not wearing plates. Yeah, I was thinking about the Buffalo shooting. Dude was engaged right away, but had on soft armor. Quoted: red dot = easier head shots For the anti- red dot folks/ fudds I have taken several, new, never before shot a pistol shooters out I tell them, dot on target, press trigger straight back They say "OMG so easy" and "it's like cheating" and "TOO easy" Up until now, I had only briefly kicked around the idea of getting a new carry piece so I could put an RMR on it. But I am now seriously getting a new side arm with a higher ammo capacity and cuts for a red dot. I was fine with my Shield 1.0.....but....time to reconsider. I had this exact same thought after Buffalo. Now this is my EDC:  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:30:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I were Eli I would already have finished multiple phone conversations with Nick Sandman's lawyers.... I also frequently listen to Guy Relford. I like his show. He's a good asset to the firearms community and from all accounts a nice guy as well. He's a little wordy at times, but I love his insight into 2a issues.. especially as it pertains to the law and bills going through the state legislature (and sometimes national law) |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:43:11 PM EDT
[#45]
 Quote HistoryQuoted: I love how 22 of 433 is a statistical unicorn, but 433 of millions is significant and worth taking away constitutional rights. Oh, that's good. We need to get that out. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 3:43:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had this exact same thought after Buffalo. Now this is my EDC: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66756/72FE773E-129F-4854-BD5C-D9B8010A180B_jpe-2459957.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's betting on them not wearing plates. Yeah, I was thinking about the Buffalo shooting. Dude was engaged right away, but had on soft armor. Quoted: red dot = easier head shots For the anti- red dot folks/ fudds I have taken several, new, never before shot a pistol shooters out I tell them, dot on target, press trigger straight back They say "OMG so easy" and "it's like cheating" and "TOO easy" Up until now, I had only briefly kicked around the idea of getting a new carry piece so I could put an RMR on it. But I am now seriously getting a new side arm with a higher ammo capacity and cuts for a red dot. I was fine with my Shield 1.0.....but....time to reconsider. I had this exact same thought after Buffalo. Now this is my EDC: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66756/72FE773E-129F-4854-BD5C-D9B8010A180B_jpe-2459957.JPG There is no such thing as a handgun that is appropriate for fighting someone armed with a rifle, but I try to get as close as possible. Unfortunately, the local range I like to go to won't let people shoot handguns on the rifle range, so I guess I need to find somewhere else to go shoot handguns at 50+ yards. 
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Posted: 7/20/2022 4:06:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no such thing as a handgun that is appropriate for fighting someone armed with a rifle, but I try to get as close as possible. Unfortunately, the local range I like to go to won't let people shoot handguns on the rifle range, so I guess I need to find somewhere else to go shoot handguns at 50+ yards. https://i.imgur.com/6w1xxjY.jpg My local range has a 40yd and 50yd handgun range. Usually we setup some targets around 15yd and 20yd and then we'll put some water bottles back at the berm. With a full sized handgun and a half way decent trigger, i can pop a soda bottle pretty regularly. I've shot the lids off them more than a couple times with my GP100 match champion. My carry piece is a glock 43x. With something in that size and with the glock staple gun trigger its harder to hit a coke bottle. I think I could still put rounds on a skinny asshole sized target. The real kicker is when the skinny asshole has a rifle and its shooting at you. I haven't been in that situation. I'm sure that makes it a whole lot harder. One second you're sitting there in the mall with your girlfriend eating cookies. Then out of nowhere you have to completely shift gears and you're in fighting mode. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 4:07:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Should put hero's name in thread title.
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Posted: 7/20/2022 4:08:07 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I were Eli I would already have finished multiple phone conversations with Nick Sandman's lawyers.... I also frequently listen to Guy Relford. I like his show. He's a good asset to the firearms community and from all accounts a nice guy as well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I agree, no interest at all in seeing innocent people killed. What you said about the first person being targeted is true. According to reports I've read, the first victim shot was Mr. Gomez. He was also armed (another one of those guys "breaking the law" by carrying in the mall.. surprised the left isn't dancing on his grave). If what I read is accurate, he was standing right outside the restroom when this POS exited and got him first. He had almost no chance is my guess. Action will almost always beat reaction. I'd love to see Eli's actions. Frankly, I'm a teetoaler and I might crack a beer and watch that scumbag eat those 8 rounds. I still can't get over this lasting start to finish, 15 freaking seconds. I mean, I know we all love saying "When seconds count, the police are minutes away" and it is true... but 15 freaking seconds? I'd bet some folks were just getting through to 911 and it was already over, let alone getting officers dispatched. I can't wait till Guy Relford (Eli's attorney) has his radio show this Saturday. I'm sure he will only speak generally on the matter since he's representing the Eli.. but I'll be interested to hear his opinions, especially when this thing blows over and he can actually talk about it. Obviously this case will never see a Jury trial.. heck it might never even past a quick review by a prosecutor who's running late for lunch. If I were Eli I would already have finished multiple phone conversations with Nick Sandman's lawyers.... I also frequently listen to Guy Relford. I like his show. He's a good asset to the firearms community and from all accounts a nice guy as well. |
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Posted: 7/20/2022 4:17:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bee article ?? Uvalde Police Criticize Indiana Mall Armed Citizen For Not Waiting Around Outside For An Hour 
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