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Posted: 9/15/2015 3:12:52 PM EDT
[#1]
If the wife was the first one with her hand on a gun, she should have been the one to turn around and shoot that motherfucker in the head.
Page 4 has questions. Got the names mixed up. I wonder if the gun was on Alaniz or in the vehicle somewhere. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 3:18:21 PM EDT
[#2]
I am not trying to change the subject line here but I talked to someone that knows a bit about one of the occupants of the vehicle and said the deceased father was a felon that just got out of prison.
If this is so it begs the question of where he got a hold of the pistol. Perhaps it was his wifes?? And after seeing that Live Leak video who knows what the hell was going down. Edit for clarification. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 3:26:16 PM EDT
[#3]
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Criticize all you like, arm chair quarterback till you're blue in the face. This man decided that it was time to fight, he was there, not you. He made that decision based on the info he had at his disposal at that time. A lot of people here seem to be guessing with all their might about the circumstances in that car. The mad died a warrior, defending his wife and daughter, there is no dishonor in this. There's a difference between MMQBing and trying to learn from someone else's mistake/s. He was in a very bad spot, no doubt. We should ask what he could have done differently, if anything, in order to gain a better outcome. We know that pulling your pistol and start shooting, when a guy already has you at gunpoint is not the best course of action unless it's your only course available. If there are other options (and there usually are) they should be explored as to which one has the best likelihood of ending with all the good guys alive. Examining events like this and thinking about all the coulds, woulds, and shoulds, can be helpful. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 3:26:17 PM EDT
[#4]
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I am not trying to change the subject line here but I talked to someone that knows a bit about one of the occupants of the vehicle and said the deceased father was a felon that just got out of prison. If this is so it begs the question of where he got a hold of the pistol. Perhaps it was his wifes?? And after seeing that Live Leak video who knows what the hell was going down. Edit for clarification. Interesting. I saw the neck tat in the pic and wondered if he was a banger or former banger. I don't care one way or the other. Private sales are allowed in Texas, and there isn't any way to know if the person you are selling to is a felon if you engage in one. If the gun did belong to the wife, as in if she purchased it, things might get very interesting for her. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 3:29:43 PM EDT
[#5]
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Interesting. I saw the neck tat in the pic and wondered if he was a banger or former banger. I don't care one way or the other. Private sales are allowed in Texas, and there isn't any way to know if the person you are selling to is a felon if you engage in one. If the gun did belong to the wife, as in if she purchased it, things might get very interesting for her. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I am not trying to change the subject line here but I talked to someone that knows a bit about one of the occupants of the vehicle and said the deceased father was a felon that just got out of prison. If this is so it begs the question of where he got a hold of the pistol. Perhaps it was his wifes?? And after seeing that Live Leak video who knows what the hell was going down. Edit for clarification. Interesting. I saw the neck tat in the pic and wondered if he was a banger or former banger. I don't care one way or the other. Private sales are allowed in Texas, and there isn't any way to know if the person you are selling to is a felon if you engage in one. If the gun did belong to the wife, as in if she purchased it, things might get very interesting for her. I am sure everything will come out in the wash soon enough. And it might very well have been a random robbery as this sort of thing is actually quite common here in Houston. I wonder about the guy that was kicking the dead perps face in though. If it was the deceased guys brother I think even the police here would understand the emotions. So why did he flee?? |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 3:32:17 PM EDT
[#6]
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Only time I point a gun at anyone is when I intend to kill them. I assume the same if someone points a gun at me. Point one at me or mine and I assume it will be used and will do everything I can to kill you first. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile If someone is pointing a gun at you and you're not already shot, they haven't intended to shoot you. They want you to do something. They may or may not intend to shoot you after you do what they want. In any event, if you're not shot yet, you have time to attempt to make your odds better than trying to outdraw someone who already has you at gunpoint. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 3:37:31 PM EDT
[#7]
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There's a difference between MMQBing and trying to learn from someone else's mistake/s. He was in a very bad spot, no doubt. We should ask what he could have done differently, if anything, in order to gain a better outcome. We know that pulling your pistol and start shooting, when a guy already has you at gunpoint is not the best course of action unless it's your only course available. If there are other options (and there usually are) they should be explored as to which one has the best likelihood of ending with all the good guys alive. Examining events like this and thinking about all the coulds, woulds, and shoulds, can be helpful. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Criticize all you like, arm chair quarterback till you're blue in the face. This man decided that it was time to fight, he was there, not you. He made that decision based on the info he had at his disposal at that time. A lot of people here seem to be guessing with all their might about the circumstances in that car. The mad died a warrior, defending his wife and daughter, there is no dishonor in this. There's a difference between MMQBing and trying to learn from someone else's mistake/s. He was in a very bad spot, no doubt. We should ask what he could have done differently, if anything, in order to gain a better outcome. We know that pulling your pistol and start shooting, when a guy already has you at gunpoint is not the best course of action unless it's your only course available. If there are other options (and there usually are) they should be explored as to which one has the best likelihood of ending with all the good guys alive. Examining events like this and thinking about all the coulds, woulds, and shoulds, can be helpful. Exactly. The lessons we learn are written on the tombstones of others. You want to honor that "Warrior"? Study what happened, learn from it. If a mistake was made and you learn from it, then "we" as a community of trained gun carriers are the better for it, rather than some other guy getting killed a year from now, two years from now etc..... It's been ten years since Mark Allan Wilson was shot down trying to do the right thing. It's an encounter I've studied quite a bit, among others. Again, learn from these things if you are a serious student of the martial arts. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 3:40:45 PM EDT
[#8]
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Never trust your life to the moral recognizance of a man who sticks his gun in your face. Those of you who said fighting was the wrong move are out in the fucking weeds. Plenty of perfectly cooperative victims get straight up executed. Letting an armed robber establish control over your whole family is a pretty bad defensive strategy. Tom Givens refers to three "forfeits" on the Rangemaster record...those were students who were unarmed when they were robbed. All three were perfectly cooperative with the robber. All three were executed anyway. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Them's the breaks. But he made goddamn sure that his wife and kid didn't end up having their brains spilled by that asshole because he killed that motherfucker deader than disco before he could be in a position to make that happen. Good on him. Allowing a violent felon to establish control over your family is not going to be the preferred survival strategy, folks. There is a difference between deciding to give him the money and hope for the best, and throwing him the money for distraction, talking to him, stalling, trying to jockey for a better position from which to attack. I have no idea if anything like that was tried or not. But SOME distraction is better than NO distraction. Just reaching for your gun when you're already at gunpoint is not, imho, the smartest play. Of course putting yourself at the mercy of a thug is dumb. But trying to stack the deck in your favor, if there's a chance to do so, is the smarter move. This close quarter scenario brings up the value of training in something other than just manipulating your own pistol. Deflecting his, if possible (not a great position in a car, but as a general rule it's sound) is just as important than bringing yours to bear. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 3:46:53 PM EDT
[#9]
God speed, Dad.
For those who feel you should acquiesce in the face of certain peril....I say no. I will be damned if I place my life, or more importantly, the life of my wife or children in the hands of some godless monster and "hope and pray" that monster acts kindly. I will fight against the odds, but it will be my decision to get the ball rolling. I loathe the thought of sitting there, hoping this creature before me makes a compassionate decision to not hurt my loved one(s). Making a decision to not act is tantamount to making the decision to place control in someone elses hands. And that it a poor decision. Horrible outcome, but could have been MUCH worse. The time to think of these things is now, not when the flag drops. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 3:48:48 PM EDT
[#10]
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As a dad, if that's the way I have to go out, I'll die a proud man. No regret! |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 4:09:41 PM EDT
[#11]
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Which are too fucking high to do stupid shit like struggling with a guy with a gun who has the drop on you in your car with your family present. The guy wanted money. He got the money and THEN the struggle started according to the wifes' statement above. Should have just let him leave. No mention of him taking anyone "hostage" or wanting to drive somewhere etc...She WOULD have mentioned that, but she just says that the money was given and then the struggle started. Most Likely?--- Husband thinking as the guy is distracted by the wallet-- "Nows my chance"....he chose poorly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Playing the odds is a fool's errand. It's not about the odds, it's about the stakes. Which are too fucking high to do stupid shit like struggling with a guy with a gun who has the drop on you in your car with your family present. The guy wanted money. He got the money and THEN the struggle started according to the wifes' statement above. Should have just let him leave. No mention of him taking anyone "hostage" or wanting to drive somewhere etc...She WOULD have mentioned that, but she just says that the money was given and then the struggle started. Most Likely?--- Husband thinking as the guy is distracted by the wallet-- "Nows my chance"....he chose poorly. I am not willing to risk my life on the assumption that an armed robber just wants money and I don't know why anyone would make such a wager. In my opinion, one should comply with a robber to the extent actually and exactly necessary (like, say, stop walking toward him when he presents his weapon) and otherwise go third monkey on his ass. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 4:12:32 PM EDT
[#12]
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If someone is pointing a gun at you and you're not already shot, they haven't intended to shoot you. They want you to do something. They may or may not intend to shoot you after you do what they want. In any event, if you're not shot yet, you have time to attempt to make your odds better than trying to outdraw someone who already has you at gunpoint. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Only time I point a gun at anyone is when I intend to kill them. I assume the same if someone points a gun at me. Point one at me or mine and I assume it will be used and will do everything I can to kill you first. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile If someone is pointing a gun at you and you're not already shot, they haven't intended to shoot you. They want you to do something. They may or may not intend to shoot you after you do what they want. In any event, if you're not shot yet, you have time to attempt to make your odds better than trying to outdraw someone who already has you at gunpoint. Not trying to start a pissing match, but I think you can almost categorically say that time is not going to improve your odds once a BG with a deadly weapon has you in a position of submission. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 4:20:49 PM EDT
[#13]
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I am not willing to risk my life on the assumption that an armed robber just wants money and I don't know why anyone would make such a wager. In my opinion, one should comply with a robber to the extent actually and exactly necessary (like, say, stop walking toward him when he presents his weapon) and otherwise go third monkey on his ass. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Playing the odds is a fool's errand. It's not about the odds, it's about the stakes. Which are too fucking high to do stupid shit like struggling with a guy with a gun who has the drop on you in your car with your family present. The guy wanted money. He got the money and THEN the struggle started according to the wifes' statement above. Should have just let him leave. No mention of him taking anyone "hostage" or wanting to drive somewhere etc...She WOULD have mentioned that, but she just says that the money was given and then the struggle started. Most Likely?--- Husband thinking as the guy is distracted by the wallet-- "Nows my chance"....he chose poorly. I am not willing to risk my life on the assumption that an armed robber just wants money and I don't know why anyone would make such a wager. In my opinion, one should comply with a robber to the extent actually and exactly necessary (like, say, stop walking toward him when he presents his weapon) and otherwise go third monkey on his ass. Maybe because there are more armed robberies by an order of magnitude than there are murders in this country? Seriously, if every armed robbery in this country ended in a murder, what do you think the Murder Rate would be? The VAST MAJORITY end with an exchange and everybody goes their way without any extra holes. That's just statistical FACT. Again, I laid it out on Page 3. NEVER, FUCKING EVER (Clear enough?) go to the Secondary Crime scene....but don't start a damn gunfight when you are in a closed space, under a gun, with your family there unless it's absolutely the LAST OPTION. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 4:25:53 PM EDT
[#14]
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Am I the only one wondering about the car door not being locked? The dad did an excellent job protecting is family, but lock your doors! If the door had been locked and that prevented the dead BG from getting in the car, the dad might still be alive.  You're not the only one. Sad to hear this happened, but at least dad went out fighting. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 4:32:31 PM EDT
[#15]
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You're not the only one. Sad to hear this happened, but at least dad went out fighting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Am I the only one wondering about the car door not being locked? The dad did an excellent job protecting is family, but lock your doors! If the door had been locked and that prevented the dead BG from getting in the car, the dad might still be alive. You're not the only one. Sad to hear this happened, but at least dad went out fighting. Both of my vehicles automatically unlock the second you place the transmission in park. We can't be 110 % 24/7 people. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 4:34:18 PM EDT
[#16]
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Both of my vehicles automatically unlock the second you place the transmission in park. We can't be 110 % 24/7 people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Am I the only one wondering about the car door not being locked? The dad did an excellent job protecting is family, but lock your doors! If the door had been locked and that prevented the dead BG from getting in the car, the dad might still be alive. You're not the only one. Sad to hear this happened, but at least dad went out fighting. Both of my vehicles automatically unlock the second you place the transmission in park. We can't be 110 % 24/7 people. Most have some kind of programming you can do to change that. Might look in your manuals or consult your dealer...... |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 4:39:41 PM EDT
[#17]
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Am I the only one wondering about the car door not being locked? The dad did an excellent job protecting is family, but lock your doors! If the door had been locked and that prevented the dead BG from getting in the car, the dad might still be alive. You're not the only one. Sad to hear this happened, but at least dad went out fighting. Most have some kind of programming you can do to change that. Might look in your manuals or consult your dealer...... Both of my vehicles automatically unlock the second you place the transmission in park. We can't be 110 % 24/7 people. My vehicles do not have that function. Place it in park and the doors unlock. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 7:56:45 PM EDT
[#18]
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Godspeed, Sir. You protected your family valiantly, and without regard for your own life. May your memory live on with the honor it deserves. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 8:03:58 PM EDT
[#19]
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That area is fast becoming the armpit of Houston.  Im from Htown. The city is an armpit.....I raised in Bellaire/Myerland. Nice area totally surrounded by the worst shit ghettoes. |
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Posted: 9/16/2015 9:09:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Bad situation. If he gets in the car, I would figure he wants to go somewhere. You cannot rely on the mercy of strangers. It would be time to fight. No options. With the crazy people running around out there today, there are worse things than a quick death.
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Posted: 9/18/2015 11:37:45 AM EDT
[#21]
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Some people here need to realize that this isn't DU. •you have no way of knowing that the thief wouldn't have still shot them •you have no way of knowing if he had given the thief his money to buy some time He died, and possibly saved his family. He did his job as a father and husband. That doesn't mean people are going to abandon critical thinking and only go with their kneejerk party line. |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 11:38:56 AM EDT
[#22]
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Never trust your life to the moral recognizance of a man who sticks his gun in your face. Those of you who said fighting was the wrong move are out in the fucking weeds. Plenty of perfectly cooperative victims get straight up executed. Letting an armed robber establish control over your whole family is a pretty bad defensive strategy. Tom Givens refers to three "forfeits" on the Rangemaster record...those were students who were unarmed when they were robbed. All three were perfectly cooperative with the robber. All three were executed anyway. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Them's the breaks. But he made goddamn sure that his wife and kid didn't end up having their brains spilled by that asshole because he killed that motherfucker deader than disco before he could be in a position to make that happen. Good on him. Allowing a violent felon to establish control over your family is not going to be the preferred survival strategy, folks. You can go anecdotal and get swamped by stories where armed robbery victims didn't get shot 20 to 1. There is no automatic answer. |
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