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Posted: 12/2/2015 11:46:25 AM EDT
[#1]
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The point is the impracticability of owning a gun that you cannot shoot regularly, due to nonexistent parts/mags/ammo. How many DB5s actually get drove? Not fucking many. Ever sources parts for any classic car not to mention foreign? It's a royal PITA. I'm not gonna spend six figures on a car that can't be drove and when it does Ive got to worry about depreciation and upkeep. Owning a car that sits in the garage as a conversation piece is retarded. And that's the parallel with the Sturmgewer. If you want a status symbol to post on Arfcom, buy an original. If you want to actually enjoy what you have buy the repro and shoot the hell out of it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's like taking a classic sports cars, like an Aston Martin DB5 - and then putting a Chevy V8 LS1 (or whatever the corvette engine is called) - because it'll be faster, and easier to use, and more parts are available, blah blah blah. Sure, some people might like that and think it's a great idea - but they're fools, and should be mocked and shunned. 
Yeah who wants to actually shoot/drive their hobbies. If your hobby is to drive a fast car with a modern Corvette engine, buy a Corvette (or a souped up Camaro or whatever). If your hobby is to collect classic cars, buy a classic car. Like I said, I acknowledge that there ARE people who think this way, but that doesn't mean I have to pretend they aren't insane.  The point is the impracticability of owning a gun that you cannot shoot regularly, due to nonexistent parts/mags/ammo. How many DB5s actually get drove? Not fucking many. Ever sources parts for any classic car not to mention foreign? It's a royal PITA. I'm not gonna spend six figures on a car that can't be drove and when it does Ive got to worry about depreciation and upkeep. Owning a car that sits in the garage as a conversation piece is retarded. And that's the parallel with the Sturmgewer. If you want a status symbol to post on Arfcom, buy an original. If you want to actually enjoy what you have buy the repro and shoot the hell out of it. For the record, notice that you are doing exactly the same as I am doing. You are calling people that disagree with you "retarded" ... so at least we are on the same page there. 
ETA Didn't you own a Semi Madsen? How is this any different? A semi-auto Madsen is quite different from a Stg44 in a caliber it was never designed for, with completely different mags and modified parts. Both of my semi-auto Madsens have the original barrels, original mags, shoot the caliber they were originally manufactured for. They are as completely original as it is possible for them to be, without being NFA guns. The only difference between a semi-auto Madsen and a full-auto Madsen is the modification to make it comply with the law, not to be easier or cheaper or more convenient to use - which is the only reason for the Stg. 44 in 7.62x39. If someone made a Madsen in 5.56mm NATO that could take AR mags, that would be as ridiculous as a Stg44 in 7.62x39. As an aside, I have tried to purchase several NFA Madsens in the past year, but lost at auction. 
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Posted: 12/2/2015 11:48:56 AM EDT
[#2]
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Since this gun is available in a variety of calibers, I am thinking that the CORRECT replica (remember, it's a replica) would cost about the same as one in an alternative caliber. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's like taking a classic sports cars, like an Aston Martin DB5 - and then putting a Chevy V8 LS1 (or whatever the corvette engine is called) - because it'll be faster, and easier to use, and more parts are available, blah blah blah. Sure, some people might like that and think it's a great idea - but they're fools, and should be mocked and shunned.
If I had any desire to own an AM and those mods were the only way to get the car close to a price point I could afford, then I would probably get one. Same goes for the HMG. I will never be able to afford a true repro in the $5,000 range, and I'll sure as hell never own a genuine specimen. This is the closest I'll ever come to a rifle I covet. Bottom line is, if it works, I will shoot it a lot because it is fun. I'm so horribly bored with ARs that the one and only that I own has been cannibalized for parts for the NDS18 receiver I bought. Since every arfmember is a millionaire T1 operator and I'm not, I suppose I deserve to be shunned. I spend what little disposable income I have on things I enjoy shooting.  Since this gun is available in a variety of calibers, I am thinking that the CORRECT replica (remember, it's a replica) would cost about the same as one in an alternative caliber. Not by a long shot. PTR44 |
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Posted: 12/2/2015 11:52:21 AM EDT
[#3]
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Not really. For everyone jumping up and down saying they would buy one only a fraction will actually. Just like 5.56 fals, or any the litany of other guns that people on gun boards clamor over, but never actually buy. The problem with a gun like this is that its a novelty, and when you chamber it in a caliber that was not original to the gun you lose those that want a faithful reproduction, but while you gain those who want a more accessible caliber it begs the question of what that gun offers another design that is much cheaper (like an AR or AK). I am all for new guns being brought to the market, and I hope this company the best, but I am a bit cynical regarding the actual appeal of such a niche gun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nice, a rifle that people only want to buy in theory.  At that price point, they'll sell plenty. If they can bring the price down to like 1.2k, they'd sell even more Not really. For everyone jumping up and down saying they would buy one only a fraction will actually. Just like 5.56 fals, or any the litany of other guns that people on gun boards clamor over, but never actually buy. The problem with a gun like this is that its a novelty, and when you chamber it in a caliber that was not original to the gun you lose those that want a faithful reproduction, but while you gain those who want a more accessible caliber it begs the question of what that gun offers another design that is much cheaper (like an AR or AK). I am all for new guns being brought to the market, and I hope this company the best, but I am a bit cynical regarding the actual appeal of such a niche gun. This post nails it. |
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Posted: 12/2/2015 11:53:55 AM EDT
[#4]
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Same is true of BARs, 1919s and other repro guns. They are a nitch market for collectors and others interested in guns of that period. They are not "better" guns. They are repros of the guns that were used in major historical events. Not many will buy an Stg as a trunk gun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nice, a rifle that people only want to buy in theory. This. It's cool as a historical jumping off point, but I can think of many other more practical guns to buy first. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Same is true of BARs, 1919s and other repro guns. They are a nitch market for collectors and others interested in guns of that period. They are not "better" guns. They are repros of the guns that were used in major historical events. Not many will buy an Stg as a trunk gun. And many of them do not work well at all, despite the cost. |
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Posted: 12/2/2015 11:58:17 AM EDT
[#5]
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It's like taking a classic sports cars, like an Aston Martin DB5 - and then putting a Chevy V8 LS1 (or whatever the corvette engine is called) - because it'll be faster, and easier to use, and more parts are available, blah blah blah. Sure, some people might like that and think it's a great idea - but they're fools, and should be mocked and shunned.
If I had any desire to own an AM and those mods were the only way to get the car close to a price point I could afford, then I would probably get one. Same goes for the HMG. I will never be able to afford a true repro in the $5,000 range, and I'll sure as hell never own a genuine specimen. This is the closest I'll ever come to a rifle I covet. Bottom line is, if it works, I will shoot it a lot because it is fun. I'm so horribly bored with ARs that the one and only that I own has been cannibalized for parts for the NDS18 receiver I bought. Since every arfmember is a millionaire T1 operator and I'm not, I suppose I deserve to be shunned. I spend what little disposable income I have on things I enjoy shooting. Since this gun is available in a variety of calibers, I am thinking that the CORRECT replica (remember, it's a replica) would cost about the same as one in an alternative caliber. Not by a long shot. PTR44 
The video clearly stated that this replica will be available in .223 (Wylde), 8mm Kurz, 7.62x39 and 300 Blackout. The price point appears to be the same for all of them, so you can absolutely get this gun chambered in the original cartridge for the same price. |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 11:26:37 AM EDT
[#6]
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The video clearly stated that this replica will be available in .223 (Wylde), 8mm Kurz, 7.62x39 and 300 Blackout. The price point appears to be the same for all of them, so you can absolutely get this gun chambered in the original cartridge for the same price. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's like taking a classic sports cars, like an Aston Martin DB5 - and then putting a Chevy V8 LS1 (or whatever the corvette engine is called) - because it'll be faster, and easier to use, and more parts are available, blah blah blah. Sure, some people might like that and think it's a great idea - but they're fools, and should be mocked and shunned.
If I had any desire to own an AM and those mods were the only way to get the car close to a price point I could afford, then I would probably get one. Same goes for the HMG. I will never be able to afford a true repro in the $5,000 range, and I'll sure as hell never own a genuine specimen. This is the closest I'll ever come to a rifle I covet. Bottom line is, if it works, I will shoot it a lot because it is fun. I'm so horribly bored with ARs that the one and only that I own has been cannibalized for parts for the NDS18 receiver I bought. Since every arfmember is a millionaire T1 operator and I'm not, I suppose I deserve to be shunned. I spend what little disposable income I have on things I enjoy shooting. Since this gun is available in a variety of calibers, I am thinking that the CORRECT replica (remember, it's a replica) would cost about the same as one in an alternative caliber. Not by a long shot. PTR44
The video clearly stated that this replica will be available in .223 (Wylde), 8mm Kurz, 7.62x39 and 300 Blackout. The price point appears to be the same for all of them, so you can absolutely get this gun chambered in the original cartridge for the same price. Understood, but when you said "CORRECT" replica I assumed you meant correct in a literal sense, i.e. clockwork, vintage magwell, trunion, etc. I only meant that, in that sense, a "correct" replica runs $4k+. |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 12:09:42 PM EDT
[#7]
I'll need more information before I'd FO, but it is an exciting project that I hope is a wild success for HMG. |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 12:26:08 PM EDT
[#8]
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For the record, notice that you are doing exactly the same as I am doing. You are calling people that disagree with you "retarded" ... so at least we are on the same page there.
A semi-auto Madsen is quite different from a Stg44 in a caliber it was never designed for, with completely different mags and modified parts. Both of my semi-auto Madsens have the original barrels, original mags, shoot the caliber they were originally manufactured for. They are as completely original as it is possible for them to be, without being NFA guns. The only difference between a semi-auto Madsen and a full-auto Madsen is the modification to make it comply with the law, not to be easier or cheaper or more convenient to use - which is the only reason for the Stg. 44 in 7.62x39. If someone made a Madsen in 5.56mm NATO that could take AR mags, that would be as ridiculous as a Stg44 in 7.62x39. As an aside, I have tried to purchase several NFA Madsens in the past year, but lost at auction. Quote HistoryQuoted:
For the record, notice that you are doing exactly the same as I am doing. You are calling people that disagree with you "retarded" ... so at least we are on the same page there.
ETA Didn't you own a Semi Madsen? How is this any different? A semi-auto Madsen is quite different from a Stg44 in a caliber it was never designed for, with completely different mags and modified parts. Both of my semi-auto Madsens have the original barrels, original mags, shoot the caliber they were originally manufactured for. They are as completely original as it is possible for them to be, without being NFA guns. The only difference between a semi-auto Madsen and a full-auto Madsen is the modification to make it comply with the law, not to be easier or cheaper or more convenient to use - which is the only reason for the Stg. 44 in 7.62x39. If someone made a Madsen in 5.56mm NATO that could take AR mags, that would be as ridiculous as a Stg44 in 7.62x39. As an aside, I have tried to purchase several NFA Madsens in the past year, but lost at auction. DK-Prof, I'm of the same thought. Being a semi-auto Madsen 8mm owner as well. Though mine has an original 30-06 conversion, included by Dennis, with the conversion build. The only reason I would by an Stg44 semi is that is was as historically correct as possible. For me, it's not for any modern "tactical" reason. When PTR imported the Stg's from Germany a few years back I was hoping for one but that never happened. They were about as an exact semi-auto clone as you could get. But PTR had a heck of a time getting them to work and abandoned the project. As a side note I just received my semi-auto Turkish Vickers, 8mm, from Dennis today. It will be out at the range Sunday
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Posted: 12/3/2015 12:33:52 PM EDT
[#9]
I have one of the 22 replicas. Heavy, weird ergonomics, crappy sights. Fun toy to play with but that's about it.
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Posted: 12/3/2015 2:46:00 PM EDT
[#10]
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Understood, but when you said "CORRECT" replica I assumed you meant correct in a literal sense, i.e. clockwork, vintage magwell, trunion, etc. I only meant that, in that sense, a "correct" replica runs $4k+. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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... If I had any desire to own an AM and those mods were the only way to get the car close to a price point I could afford, then I would probably get one. Same goes for the HMG. I will never be able to afford a true repro in the $5,000 range, and I'll sure as hell never own a genuine specimen. This is the closest I'll ever come to a rifle I covet. Bottom line is, if it works, I will shoot it a lot because it is fun. I'm so horribly bored with ARs that the one and only that I own has been cannibalized for parts for the NDS18 receiver I bought. Since every arfmember is a millionaire T1 operator and I'm not, I suppose I deserve to be shunned. I spend what little disposable income I have on things I enjoy shooting. Since this gun is available in a variety of calibers, I am thinking that the CORRECT replica (remember, it's a replica) would cost about the same as one in an alternative caliber. Not by a long shot. PTR44
The video clearly stated that this replica will be available in .223 (Wylde), 8mm Kurz, 7.62x39 and 300 Blackout. The price point appears to be the same for all of them, so you can absolutely get this gun chambered in the original cartridge for the same price. Understood, but when you said "CORRECT" replica I assumed you meant correct in a literal sense, i.e. clockwork, vintage magwell, trunion, etc. I only meant that, in that sense, a "correct" replica runs $4k+. I'm sorry - we were talking past each other. I totally get what you are saying. I still meant in the context of THIS particular model, since it's still intended to be a replica of the Stg44, even though they've obviously made a bunch of changes. Sorry I misunderstood. 
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Posted: 12/3/2015 2:47:31 PM EDT
[#11]
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DK-Prof, I'm of the same thought. Being a semi-auto Madsen 8mm owner as well. Though mine has an original 30-06 conversion, included by Dennis, with the conversion build. The only reason I would by an Stg44 semi is that is was as historically correct as possible. For me, it's not for any modern "tactical" reason. When PTR imported the Stg's from Germany a few years back I was hoping for one but that never happened. They were about as an exact semi-auto clone as you could get. But PTR had a heck of a time getting them to work and abandoned the project. As a side note I just received my semi-auto Turkish Vickers, 8mm, from Dennis today. It will be out at the range Sunday
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For the record, notice that you are doing exactly the same as I am doing. You are calling people that disagree with you "retarded" ... so at least we are on the same page there.
ETA Didn't you own a Semi Madsen? How is this any different? A semi-auto Madsen is quite different from a Stg44 in a caliber it was never designed for, with completely different mags and modified parts. Both of my semi-auto Madsens have the original barrels, original mags, shoot the caliber they were originally manufactured for. They are as completely original as it is possible for them to be, without being NFA guns. The only difference between a semi-auto Madsen and a full-auto Madsen is the modification to make it comply with the law, not to be easier or cheaper or more convenient to use - which is the only reason for the Stg. 44 in 7.62x39. If someone made a Madsen in 5.56mm NATO that could take AR mags, that would be as ridiculous as a Stg44 in 7.62x39. As an aside, I have tried to purchase several NFA Madsens in the past year, but lost at auction. DK-Prof, I'm of the same thought. Being a semi-auto Madsen 8mm owner as well. Though mine has an original 30-06 conversion, included by Dennis, with the conversion build. The only reason I would by an Stg44 semi is that is was as historically correct as possible. For me, it's not for any modern "tactical" reason. When PTR imported the Stg's from Germany a few years back I was hoping for one but that never happened. They were about as an exact semi-auto clone as you could get. But PTR had a heck of a time getting them to work and abandoned the project. As a side note I just received my semi-auto Turkish Vickers, 8mm, from Dennis today. It will be out at the range Sunday
That sounds absolutely hilarious!!! Can't wait to see some photos.
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Posted: 12/3/2015 2:51:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Do want.
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Posted: 12/3/2015 3:01:27 PM EDT
[#13]
I have a STG 44 .22 and honestly the sights are so shitty that I put a scope on it. I would not buy one.
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Posted: 12/3/2015 3:09:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Real ones still in use show up in picture in the middle east and africa. Its cool that some one wants to make one.
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Posted: 12/3/2015 3:21:17 PM EDT
[#15]
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A semi-auto Madsen is quite different from a Stg44 in a caliber it was never designed for, with completely different mags and modified parts. Both of my semi-auto Madsens have the original barrels, original mags, shoot the caliber they were originally manufactured for. They are as completely original as it is possible for them to be, without being NFA guns. The only difference between a semi-auto Madsen and a full-auto Madsen is the modification to make it comply with the law, not to be easier or cheaper or more convenient to use - which is the only reason for the Stg. 44 in 7.62x39. If someone made a Madsen in 5.56mm NATO that could take AR mags, that would be as ridiculous as a Stg44 in 7.62x39. As an aside, I have tried to purchase several NFA Madsens in the past year, but lost at auction. Did you build your madsens? I have a kit at home I am going to build but it is lacking the receiver frame end and bottom plates. looks a lot more involved then my other builds. |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 3:26:33 PM EDT
[#16]
I ordered up one of these in 5.56. I have my reasons, but as a lover of guns I couldn't pass it up. I ordered the CETME-L on the HMG site too just for good measure. It's something I have not experienced otherwise so I guess I'm one of the people in mind for this product. I'm not going to nit pick originality for a shooter as long as it works and is cheap to shoot. I've already upgraded all of my AR-15's and traded up to all pre ban AK's so my SHTF cache in good order so it would be foolish to compare this commercial product to established martial arms. Something like this is in another category. Fun. Like the semi auto Bren I had made. It's a welded up mongrel from 3 different receivers but it functions and it's unique. My alternative is getting a Class III and isn't worth my kids college education. Same with this STG44- something just for the fun of shooting and playing with around the house.
For me a trip to the gun shop is depressing. It's the same old thing--just AR's, polymer framed semi's, and cheap 1911's for the most part. We're losing variety and quality day by day. Now I just need to figure how to pay for the FG42 next. |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 8:05:29 PM EDT
[#17]
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That sounds absolutely hilarious!!! Can't wait to see some photos. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For the record, notice that you are doing exactly the same as I am doing. You are calling people that disagree with you "retarded" ... so at least we are on the same page there.
ETA Didn't you own a Semi Madsen? How is this any different? A semi-auto Madsen is quite different from a Stg44 in a caliber it was never designed for, with completely different mags and modified parts. Both of my semi-auto Madsens have the original barrels, original mags, shoot the caliber they were originally manufactured for. They are as completely original as it is possible for them to be, without being NFA guns. The only difference between a semi-auto Madsen and a full-auto Madsen is the modification to make it comply with the law, not to be easier or cheaper or more convenient to use - which is the only reason for the Stg. 44 in 7.62x39. If someone made a Madsen in 5.56mm NATO that could take AR mags, that would be as ridiculous as a Stg44 in 7.62x39. As an aside, I have tried to purchase several NFA Madsens in the past year, but lost at auction. DK-Prof, I'm of the same thought. Being a semi-auto Madsen 8mm owner as well. Though mine has an original 30-06 conversion, included by Dennis, with the conversion build. The only reason I would by an Stg44 semi is that is was as historically correct as possible. For me, it's not for any modern "tactical" reason. When PTR imported the Stg's from Germany a few years back I was hoping for one but that never happened. They were about as an exact semi-auto clone as you could get. But PTR had a heck of a time getting them to work and abandoned the project. As a side note I just received my semi-auto Turkish Vickers, 8mm, from Dennis today. It will be out at the range Sunday
That sounds absolutely hilarious!!! Can't wait to see some photos. Just to completely discourage myself...what does a Semi Madsen run price-wise????? from buying the parts kit to getting it to functional |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 5:20:39 PM EDT
[#18]
About $5k or so.
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Posted: 12/5/2015 9:52:18 PM EDT
[#19]
I sent HMG a message with a few questions.
Their answers: 1. We will be offering the STG-N model with stained Eastern European Beech wood grips and stock. 2. Twist rate is 1/8 3. You will be able to use steel cased ammo 4. we are not currently taking pre-orders for spare mags but they will be up on our website for pre-order around SHOT show 2016 (Jan) |
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Posted: 12/5/2015 10:33:19 PM EDT
[#20]
$1799? LMFAO.
Not in this fucking lifetime. Those guys need to come back to fucking planet Earth. That's MAYBE...MAYBE a $650-700 piece...and a VERY GOOD DAY, when I'm feeling generous or something. |
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Posted: 12/5/2015 10:56:29 PM EDT
[#21]
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$1799? LMFAO. Not in this fucking lifetime. Those guys need to come back to fucking planet Earth. That's MAYBE...MAYBE a $650-700 piece...and a VERY GOOD DAY, when I'm feeling generous or something. This isnt colt making them. Small production + R&D + labor = 1800. I am surprised they are that cheap. |
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Posted: 12/5/2015 11:06:07 PM EDT
[#22]
That's some ugly wood.
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Posted: 12/6/2015 1:13:14 AM EDT
[#23]
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That's some ugly wood. True to the wood on the originals then. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 8:53:35 AM EDT
[#24]
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$1799? LMFAO. Not in this fucking lifetime. Those guys need to come back to fucking planet Earth. That's MAYBE...MAYBE a $650-700 piece...and a VERY GOOD DAY, when I'm feeling generous or something. Research and development is free and costs nothing, and the product will be low volume, so they don't have to recoup that free R&D they did. Heck, it shouldn't cost more than $100! |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 8:59:29 AM EDT
[#25]
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Research and development is free and costs nothing, and the product will be low volume, so they don't have to recoup that free R&D they did. Heck, it shouldn't cost more than $100! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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$1799? LMFAO. Not in this fucking lifetime. Those guys need to come back to fucking planet Earth. That's MAYBE...MAYBE a $650-700 piece...and a VERY GOOD DAY, when I'm feeling generous or something. Research and development is free and costs nothing, and the product will be low volume, so they don't have to recoup that free R&D they did. Heck, it shouldn't cost more than $100! What about R&D for the gay trigger? I'm pretty sure besides it not being FA(understandable) switching out the trigger and whatever else they did kinda negates the whole "repro" thing. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 9:09:48 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's some ugly wood. Pretty sure that the picture is just a rendering. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 9:15:49 AM EDT
[#27]
Can a MKb42H be all that far behind ???
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Posted: 12/6/2015 9:24:05 AM EDT
[#28]
Mp40 or go home
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Posted: 12/6/2015 9:53:39 AM EDT
[#29]
I am glad they did this, and don't have a criticism to offer at all. The "real thing" is unobtainium, and if everyone got interested in it, the already astronomical price would skyrocket even more. I would feel bad about doing anything with it beyond shooting a mag once due to the threat of destroying an actual piece of major history.
So you take a design that is the core concept of most modern "evil guns" - pistol grip below below action, 30-ish round magazine, threaded muzzle for different accessories, truncated case length to make a shorter gun and lighter ammo. Then you mod it up to be more reliable and consistent than the war-derived and war-produced original (only designed to have a life of 5,000 rounds or less, discarded in the field if it ever failed). Then you make it in original caliber AND modern calibers that are used in the original's descendants so that you have the easy choice to either shoot the snot out of it or hang it on the wall and admire as close as us average gun collectors can obtain. And you add the ability to leave it with the sight system of the original or add modern optics with virtually no penalty to either choice. It carries the charm and overall appearance of the original, with flexibility of caliber. I think its win-win. I want the original caliber close clone of the original, but because I am not a selfish so-and-so who thinks my opinion is the only valid option and am glad they will offer wider options to make a wider appeal and possibly make it a profitable endeavor as a reward to produce what most gun enthusiasts have always professed they wished would be made. TAKE MY MONEY - they will truly fulfill my "pipe dreams" when I can exchange my hard-earned money for one of these guns, |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 10:14:31 AM EDT
[#30]
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$1799? LMFAO. Not in this fucking lifetime. Those guys need to come back to fucking planet Earth. That's MAYBE...MAYBE a $650-700 piece...and a VERY GOOD DAY, when I'm feeling generous or something. Well, since you arent going to buy one, I guess they'll just close shop and do something else......
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Posted: 12/6/2015 10:19:06 AM EDT
[#31]
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If it is in anything but 8mm Kurz, using anything but reproduction StG-44 mags, it's fucking gay and can go eat dicks in gayland. Yeah but where you gonna get an ammo fort's worth of ammo in 8mm Kurz? |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 10:23:48 AM EDT
[#32]
not with a dumb ass R mag sticking out of it.
Should have gone PTR44 route. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 11:05:24 AM EDT
[#33]
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What about R&D for the gay trigger? I'm pretty sure besides it not being FA(understandable) switching out the trigger and whatever else they did kinda negates the whole "repro" thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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$1799? LMFAO. Not in this fucking lifetime. Those guys need to come back to fucking planet Earth. That's MAYBE...MAYBE a $650-700 piece...and a VERY GOOD DAY, when I'm feeling generous or something. Research and development is free and costs nothing, and the product will be low volume, so they don't have to recoup that free R&D they did. Heck, it shouldn't cost more than $100! What about R&D for the gay trigger? I'm pretty sure besides it not being FA(understandable) switching out the trigger and whatever else they did kinda negates the whole "repro" thing. Well, there's the practicality side of it. Why try to reproduce the overly complex trigger system of the original STG, WHILE making it semi-only and not easily convertible? Use an existing trigger system that will fit right in the 'lower'. It's not intended to be a 1:1 reproduction, it's intended to be as close as possible appearance-wise, while being somewhat modernized and made a bit more efficient. The way you use it, the controls, the general feel and the outward appearance will be STG-44. I'd bet 99.9999999% of any of us that manages to get one have probably never fired a real STG-44, so would we even know that something really is all that different? Would it really matter? Why is it difficult for people to understand why the company is doing what it is doing? Watch the videos and you'll learn - full on reproduction would cost near $5000, and few people would buy it. Make a few modifications, a few modernizations and get it in a price range that more people already buy rifles in to sell more. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 12:40:14 PM EDT
[#34]
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Research and development is free and costs nothing, and the product will be low volume, so they don't have to recoup that free R&D they did. Heck, it shouldn't cost more than $100! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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$1799? LMFAO. Not in this fucking lifetime. Those guys need to come back to fucking planet Earth. That's MAYBE...MAYBE a $650-700 piece...and a VERY GOOD DAY, when I'm feeling generous or something. Research and development is free and costs nothing, and the product will be low volume, so they don't have to recoup that free R&D they did. Heck, it shouldn't cost more than $100! R&D is not free by any means. They still have to redesign it to semi auto only, then they need to setup a way to do the stamping and tolerances, then they need to develop it in solidworks which will take a lotof time for each part. They could be into that 50k before the first gun is even made if they are paying labor. $100.....you obviously know nothing about production. Glocks probably cost $20 but there are a lot more factors going into the ultimate cost of a product then the base line materials. People like you are why we cant have nice things. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 12:59:20 PM EDT
[#35]
I smelled sarcasm in hte $100 price.
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Posted: 12/6/2015 1:03:52 PM EDT
[#36]
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It's a replica of a historical rifle. It exists for novelty and history. It is to be looked at, shown off, and maybe taken to the range for a few mags once or twice a year. What's your plan? Roll with a heavy as hell, obsolete, impossible-to-find-parts-for, unproven-reliability replica rifle during the zombie apocalypse? Please. Anyone who uses "training ammunition budget" in association with "StG-44" needs to sit down and think for five minutes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it is in anything but 8mm Kurz, using anything but reproduction StG-44 mags, it's fucking gay and can go eat dicks in gayland. but ya know... that's just me 
It's a replica of a historical rifle. It exists for novelty and history. It is to be looked at, shown off, and maybe taken to the range for a few mags once or twice a year. What's your plan? Roll with a heavy as hell, obsolete, impossible-to-find-parts-for, unproven-reliability replica rifle during the zombie apocalypse? Please. Anyone who uses "training ammunition budget" in association with "StG-44" needs to sit down and think for five minutes. Why couldn't you have posted your second response before the "eat dicks in gayland" post? You had me thinking for a minute that you were in denial.........and I agree with your core-concept; as long as we're talking about 8mm Kurz and the STG44. Not that "dicks in gayland" stuff. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 2:17:43 PM EDT
[#37]
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Yeah but where you gonna get an ammo fort's worth of ammo in 8mm Kurz? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it is in anything but 8mm Kurz, using anything but reproduction StG-44 mags, it's fucking gay and can go eat dicks in gayland. Yeah but where you gonna get an ammo fort's worth of ammo in 8mm Kurz? http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/rifle-ammo-792x33-kurz |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 2:23:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Yeah and I'd also like a 20lb 10/22 that looks like vulcan cannon
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Posted: 12/6/2015 2:36:39 PM EDT
[#39]
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Just to completely discourage myself...what does a Semi Madsen run price-wise????? from buying the parts kit to getting it to functional Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ETA Didn't you own a Semi Madsen? How is this any different? A semi-auto Madsen is quite different from a Stg44 in a caliber it was never designed for, with completely different mags and modified parts. Both of my semi-auto Madsens have the original barrels, original mags, shoot the caliber they were originally manufactured for. They are as completely original as it is possible for them to be, without being NFA guns. The only difference between a semi-auto Madsen and a full-auto Madsen is the modification to make it comply with the law, not to be easier or cheaper or more convenient to use - which is the only reason for the Stg. 44 in 7.62x39. If someone made a Madsen in 5.56mm NATO that could take AR mags, that would be as ridiculous as a Stg44 in 7.62x39. As an aside, I have tried to purchase several NFA Madsens in the past year, but lost at auction. DK-Prof, I'm of the same thought. Being a semi-auto Madsen 8mm owner as well. Though mine has an original 30-06 conversion, included by Dennis, with the conversion build. The only reason I would by an Stg44 semi is that is was as historically correct as possible. For me, it's not for any modern "tactical" reason. When PTR imported the Stg's from Germany a few years back I was hoping for one but that never happened. They were about as an exact semi-auto clone as you could get. But PTR had a heck of a time getting them to work and abandoned the project. As a side note I just received my semi-auto Turkish Vickers, 8mm, from Dennis today. It will be out at the range Sunday
That sounds absolutely hilarious!!! Can't wait to see some photos. Just to completely discourage myself...what does a Semi Madsen run price-wise????? from buying the parts kit to getting it to functional My first Madsen, I bought outright from Dennis at Midwest Metal Creations, and I think it was about $3200 - which was maybe three years ago or so. My second Madsen I had him build from a complete parts kit I provided him about two years ago, and I think that ended up being around $2500, but I had a spare barrel/breech which can be hard to find. My third Madsen, I actually bought yesterday, and it was quite a bit more  - since it is an original full-auto NFA gun.
I may have a Madsen problem.
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Posted: 12/6/2015 2:40:12 PM EDT
[#40]
That's a cartoon drawing of a rifle on the site, no? Really need to see one rifle assembled before I make up my mind. No magazines finished, either?
What type of finish will they have? Originals had clear park, colored park, paint, or bluing. Hope they don't screw the pooch with the buttstock by making it too nice. Great videos by the guys, but HMG needs to get it in gear. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 2:42:50 PM EDT
[#41]
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R&D is not free by any means. They still have to redesign it to semi auto only, then they need to setup a way to do the stamping and tolerances, then they need to develop it in solidworks which will take a lotof time for each part. They could be into that 50k before the first gun is even made if they are paying labor. $100.....you obviously know nothing about production. Glocks probably cost $20 but there are a lot more factors going into the ultimate cost of a product then the base line materials. People like you are why we cant have nice things. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Research and development is free and costs nothing, and the product will be low volume, so they don't have to recoup that free R&D they did. Heck, it shouldn't cost more than $100! R&D is not free by any means. They still have to redesign it to semi auto only, then they need to setup a way to do the stamping and tolerances, then they need to develop it in solidworks which will take a lotof time for each part. They could be into that 50k before the first gun is even made if they are paying labor. $100.....you obviously know nothing about production. Glocks probably cost $20 but there are a lot more factors going into the ultimate cost of a product then the base line materials. People like you are why we cant have nice things. You need to recalibrate your sarcasm detector.
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Posted: 12/6/2015 2:43:38 PM EDT
[#42]
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My first Madsen, I bought outright from Dennis at Midwest Metal Creations, and I think it was about $3200 - which was maybe three years ago or so. My second Madsen I had him build from a complete parts kit I provided him about two years ago, and I think that ended up being around $2500, but I had a spare barrel/breech which can be hard to find. My third Madsen, I actually bought yesterday, and it was quite a bit more - since it is an original full-auto NFA gun.
I may have a Madsen problem. We need pics mane. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 2:47:47 PM EDT
[#43]
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At least they offer it in the original caliber. Shhh. Let everyone whine about the other caliber choices. And don't tell them you can swap barrels. This thread is a shining example of why the gun community can't have nice (and different) things. Waaaahhh! It's not in the original caliber! Waaaahhh! If it's not $100 I'm not buying! Waaaahhh! I can't be bothered to watch the videos before spouting incorrect shit! Waaaahhh! Why would anyone buy this! STFU, and FFS let the market decide. Good on HMG for bothering to stick their necks out and take the risk. If it succeeds great. If not, oh well. The important thing is it gives us all more choices and options. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 2:54:42 PM EDT
[#44]
After watching the video a $1500 street price is pretty good given the level of design that has gone into the project.
This isn't some cheaply made knock off, there is a hell of a lot of work that has gone into it. You can go completely old school to completely modern and mix and match in between. Looking forward to seeing it. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 4:06:25 PM EDT
[#45]
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not with a dumb ass R mag sticking out of it. Should have gone PTR44 route. Fuck yeah! A $5000 gun with $300-$400 magazines! |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 4:08:01 PM EDT
[#46]
I would like to see the round counts for various calibers magazine sizes. Also curious how the magazine will be constructed. Is it merely a cosmetic piece that fits over a STANAG magazine to give it the apperance of an STG-44 Magazine or are these new magazines made to STANAG internal dimensions that look like STG-44 magazines (which are quite long).
Anyway I am excited about this rifle and I will be buying one in the approved gay caliber of 7.62x39 as long as the magazines don't have the necessary pronounced curve like AR 7.62x39 magazines. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 4:12:09 PM EDT
[#47]
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R&D is not free by any means. They still have to redesign it to semi auto only, then they need to setup a way to do the stamping and tolerances, then they need to develop it in solidworks which will take a lotof time for each part. They could be into that 50k before the first gun is even made if they are paying labor. $100.....you obviously know nothing about production. Glocks probably cost $20 but there are a lot more factors going into the ultimate cost of a product then the base line materials. People like you are why we cant have nice things. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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$1799? LMFAO. Not in this fucking lifetime. Those guys need to come back to fucking planet Earth. That's MAYBE...MAYBE a $650-700 piece...and a VERY GOOD DAY, when I'm feeling generous or something. Research and development is free and costs nothing, and the product will be low volume, so they don't have to recoup that free R&D they did. Heck, it shouldn't cost more than $100! R&D is not free by any means. They still have to redesign it to semi auto only, then they need to setup a way to do the stamping and tolerances, then they need to develop it in solidworks which will take a lotof time for each part. They could be into that 50k before the first gun is even made if they are paying labor. $100.....you obviously know nothing about production. Glocks probably cost $20 but there are a lot more factors going into the ultimate cost of a product then the base line materials. People like you are why we cant have nice things. People like you are the reason I think Goatboy shouldnt allow new members to post until they've read for a month or six
sar·casm 'sär?kaz?m/Submit noun the use of irony to mock or convey contempt. "his voice, hardened by sarcasm, could not hide his resentment" synonyms:derision, mockery, ridicule, scorn, sneering, scoffing; |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 4:13:34 PM EDT
[#48]
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I dont see the point because you can't tapco it? |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 7:22:57 PM EDT
[#49]
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because you can't tapco it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I dont see the point because you can't tapco it? Oh yee of little faith... |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 7:26:31 PM EDT
[#50]
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We need pics mane. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My first Madsen, I bought outright from Dennis at Midwest Metal Creations, and I think it was about $3200 - which was maybe three years ago or so. My second Madsen I had him build from a complete parts kit I provided him about two years ago, and I think that ended up being around $2500, but I had a spare barrel/breech which can be hard to find. My third Madsen, I actually bought yesterday, and it was quite a bit more - since it is an original full-auto NFA gun.
I may have a Madsen problem. We need pics mane. It will be a while until I have the new one in my hot little hands, since I need to do the NFA transfer, and all the forms, etc, Fortunately, it is a C&R NFA gun, so that should make it a little easier. 
Here's one of my semi-auto Madsens: 
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