One of the biggest issues they had, aside from the metallurgy problems, was a guidance system for that range........ of
course, someone like Eugen Sanger, with his Silbervogel project could have fixed that quick

F2G Corsair. 3000 Hp.

A fully loaded 1946 B-36 would have been transiting Europe much slower however. Realistically it's going to be making a great deal of that trip at 200 mph slower,especially if it's having to fly all the way from Greenland or something,because we need to come up with a reason for B-36s even being used.

The ME262 would have been dead meat to the straight-winged P-80, and the Swallow's wings were swept, not for aerodynamics, but to move the center of gravity and center of lift, similar to the Sunderland flying boat.

I bet they would have figured out a way to stuff that engine into a P47, too.

Nope.

XP-47H with Chrysler IV-2220 inverted V-16 engine, 490 MPH ...



XP-47J with souped up R-2800 and lightened airframe - 505 MPH ...

Disgusting perversion.

That is a question that never has been answered, the ME262 was never tested against the P80, the engines simply were not reliable enough to do mock dogfights, or even push the ME262, so at best to say one would be dog meat is simply a unfounded statement. With that said there is going to be a actual comparison done late 2020 or 2021. The world only ME262 with original Jumos will be taking to the skies in 2020. Your statement on the origins is correct, but it was discovered that swept wings brought other advantages as well, if there were not we’d still be flying straight winged aircraft, the Germans discovered this and swept wings were incorporated into the P1101, which didn’t have twin wing mounted engines like the 262.

Think about what you typed.  When one aircraft is so unreliable that you can't even run it hard to compare it to another - that is a CLUE.  Why do you think P-51s were shooting them down?

"The Americans also tested a Me 262A-1a/U3 unarmed photo reconnaissance version, which was fitted with a fighter nose and a smooth finish. Between May and August 1946, the aircraft completed eight flights, lasting four hours and forty minutes. Testing was discontinued after four engine changes were required during the course of the tests, culminating in two single-engine landings.[94] These aircraft were extensively studied, ..." (Wikipedia) - sems to indicate some testing was indeed done.

That having been said, lets look at stated specs:

Me-262

General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 10.6 m (34 ft 9 in)
Wingspan: 12.6 m (41 ft 4 in)
Height: 3.5 m (11 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 21.7 m2 (234 sq ft)
Aspect ratio: 7.32
Empty weight: 3,795 kg (8,367 lb) [119]
Gross weight: 6,473 kg (14,271 lb) [119]
Max takeoff weight: 7,130 kg (15,719 lb) [119]
Powerplant: 2 × Junkers Jumo 004B-1 turbojet

Performance
Maximum speed: 900 km/h (560 mph, 490 kn)
Range: 1,050 km (650 mi, 570 nmi)
Service ceiling: 11,450 m (37,570 ft)
Rate of climb: 20 m/s (3,900 ft/min) at max weight of 7,130 kg (15,720 lb)
Thrust/weight: 0.28

P-80:

General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 34 ft 5 in (10.49 m)
Wingspan: 38 ft 9 in (11.81 m)
Height: 11 ft 3 in (3.43 m)
Wing area: 237.6 sq ft (22.07 m2)
Aspect ratio: 6.37
Airfoil: NACA 65-213[57]
Empty weight: 8,420 lb (3,819 kg)
Gross weight: 12,200 lb (5,534 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 16,856 lb (7,646 kg)

Zero-lift drag coefficient: 0.0134
Frontal area: 32 sq ft (3.0 m2)
Powerplant: 1 × Allison J33-A-35 centrifugal compressor turbojet, 4,600 lbf (20 kN) thrust dry
5,400 lbf (24 kN) with water injection[58]
Performance
Maximum speed: 594 mph (956 km/h, 516 kn) at sea level
Maximum speed: Mach 0.76
Cruise speed: 439 mph (707 km/h, 381 kn)
Range: 825 mi (1,328 km, 717 nmi)
Ferry range: 1,380 mi (2,220 km, 1,200 nmi)
Service ceiling: 46,800 ft (14,300 m)
Rate of climb: 6,870 ft/min (34.9 m/s)
Time to altitude: 20,000 ft (6,100 m) in 5 minutes 30 seconds
Lift-to-drag: 17.7
Wing loading: 51.3 lb/sq ft (250 kg/m2)
Thrust/weight: 0.364
0.435 with water injection.

Looks to me the P-80 is 34 MPH faster, has a better thrust-to-weight ratio, a 9000 foot higher service ceiling, and climbs 75% faster, at the expense of 200 miles range - IF you don't hang tip or drop tanks on it.

Swept wings also bring some disadvantages - see 'Dutch Roll", AKA "Sabre Dance".

wouldn't we have been unable to nuke both Hiroshima and Nagasaki without the uranium recovered from Berlin after the Nazis surrendered?

Yes P-51s shot down 262s but the majority were while landing. The overall exchange vs allied fighters was very positively in the 262s favor.

Early P-80s were not without reliability issues,one bit Dick Bong for example. It was a better plane than the 262 certainly but we aren’t playing by the real world timeline and there is the question of where are these P-80s flying from and what is the Luftwaffe putting in the air?

It just got added to the mix, and this was off the U-234
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/31/us/captured-cargo-captivating-mystery.html

WOW

that is crazy !

.

I am not sure but I think that sub had a me-262 on it, and a fw-190D. Also two really unfortunate Japanese officers that were on the sub when Germany surrendered. They put then to quarters, and they took cyanide pills.

No - the B36 only got over 400MPH when they stripped all the guns out and added 4 jets. The models that might have been available in 1945 would have been 325 MPH or so max. The listed speed for the penultimate model B-36J was 435MPH and that was only for short periods.

As has been mentioned most of the flight would have been around 200MPH - but the real advantage of the B-36 was altitude. Very few aircraft would have been able to get to it. The Ta152 is the only Axis aircraft that I think would have had a chance.

I've heard about it, and from a technical standpoint it was possible for it to fly round trip from France to 12 miles off NYC.  But I don't think there is any compelling evidence other than interrogation statements from two Luftwaffe folks just postwar...  one of them said they took photos, would be nice if they turned up!

That's a very good point and I don't know that I've really seen it discussed in regards to the German ability to produce a bomb (which was effectively zero... not bothering to entertain the ideas of a secret bomb test in Poland any more than Die Glocke being used to teleport German soldiers to an Antarctic base, or any of the other garbage-tainment that the History Channel has been crapping out for the past decade plus)

Already beaten...   Uranium was captured from a U boat

My point on the ME262 is that it was never compared and during testing it was never pushed very hard. The Specs on the ME262 are actually considered by many very conservative due to the inability to push the engines. Paul Allen’s ME262 is going to honestly see how well it would have been had germany had the proper materials to build the Jumos. The design of the engines were not at fault, the metallurgy was. I have actually been quite involved with the ME262 project here. I do know that there are many unknowns and down right false info as well, true it wasn’t a dog fighter compared to other piston designs, but the same can be said for the P80. The biggest reason ME262’s were shot down was it’s vulnerability during take off and landing, but then again that was also the same issue of the  Gloster Meteor and the P80.

Germany had some futuristic designs but their economy and industrial ability was going down fast.

The usa's economy was on fire and the industrial might was in high gear.

Japan's warships and merchant ships were being sunk much faster than they could be built.

Both Germany and japan were pretty much out of fuel. Besides fighting much fuel is needed for pilot training. Not sure about germany but japan had shot their wad and they were very short on experienced pilots.

Two ocean war was pretty grim in 41-43 but as we built up our air power , sea power and merchant fleets at the same time we were taking apart the ability of Japan and Germany to fight in the air on the seas and under the seas with submarines the outcome was clear.

Ultra high technology is cool but you have to be able to build real numbers to make any difference

. . .

Swept wings did bring benefits in the transonic regime, but the wings of the ME-262 did not.  A German aeronautical engineer by the name of Adolph Buseman recommended a wing sweep of 35*, but the chosen sweep of 18.5* was done for center of gravity reasons rather than high speed aerodynamics, and had little impact on high speed operations for the aircraft.  There were proposals for later high speed (HG) variants of the ME-262 which would have had 35 or 45* swept wings - the HG 2 and HG 3.  These never advanced past paper, however.

Mike

Did you miss what I posted? The wings were moved to maintain a neutral center of gravity, but high speed benefits were encountered that had previously been not known. The journey from tans sonic flight to super sonic flight has been a large learning curve. The transition itself has been one of immense learning, ie extreme buffeting and often complete loss of control from control lockup. The Germans discovered things we had never thought of or considered. Had the P1011 not been found the P80 and Glostor Meteor would have been top line fighters for quite some time. Look at the first version of the F84. Crap had we followed the rules the Russians would have the MiG and we’d still been using the P80 which by the was a piece of shit but hey we had a jet fighter.

Dick Bong crashed because he forgot to turn on his boost fuel pump.

Let's compare postwar production and service careers -

ME-262 - a handful of Czech examples, out of service by 1950.

P-80/T-33/F-94/SeaStar  - in production until 1959, foriegn production in Canada and Japan, thousands built

P-80 retired in 1973
T-33 retired in 2017

I don't think there would be time between May and fabricating the Hiroshima bomb to incorporate any uranium form the sub.  The Nagasaki and subsequent initial bombs ran on plutonium, not uranium.

The "Little Boy" bomb was complete save for its fissile material components in late May.  Per Wikipedia, "The uranium-235 projectile was completed on 15 June, and the target on 24 July."  I don't think that's enough time to enrich any of the German uranium and incorporate it into components.

Originally, the U.S. thought they would never build any more weapons to the Little Boy design, but reactor problems led to a plutonium shortage.  Unfortunately a lot of designs and drawings had been destroyed and had to be re-created.  6 additional Little Boy bombs were build, which were then followed by 25 more for the Navy for use on the Neptune patrol bomber, if it was launched from a Midway class aircraft carrier on a nuke strike.

Doubtless in these bombs is where the German uranium ended up.

Czechoslovakia had the ME-262 (locally produced as the Avia S-92) in front line service for a year, and tried to export it as well.  Perhaps there might be some info on performance from their use of it?

Anyways, I'm a little jealous of you, that's a cool project to be involved with.  Please let us know the results.

Would've likely had 2 more Iowa class battleships completed, the Illinois and the Kentucky.

The issue with the Avia S92 was low production, they were essentially hand built, the engines while not Jumos suffered the same issue, they did get more time as they were not flown under wartime conditions so Czech pilots could run the throttles allot more gently. While Avia did try to sell them, the simple fact of their slow production was what did them in, plus the “semi” forced use of Russian equipment. The cannon was also something of a limited use gun, which made ammo hard to get. The ME262 was more of a victim of its original country ending the way it did, and being caught in the East vs West games. It was also heavy like the ME262 which was the result of not having to correct lightweight materials to build it from, had even dry thing been available for the 262 we would have seen a much different faster plane! The ME262 flight compassions will be very interesting to say the least as will a JU87 once it’s completed as well. There are a few things that will be coming out that will be leaving people with a smile in the next few years.

Yep.

Germany's fate was sealed the same moment Japan's was, December 1941. Everything that happened afterwards was a prolonged and painful mop-up.

There  were so many cards dealt against Germany and Japan that there was little chance. It wasn't like WWI where Germany could win it right up until the end. WWII was decided at Stalingrad and Pearl Harbor.  After that, Germany and Japan were outmanned, out produced, out teched, and out thought.

The only thing Britain and Russia needed to accelerate the inevitable defeat of Germany was the US. Which Churchill knew after they won the battle of Britain.

The only thing the US needed to beat Japan was resolve. Which Japan knew going in and their strategy was structured around the US running out of it. They made the mistake of giving us shitloads of it at Pearl.

That’s not true, had Japan used a third strike and taken out the oil reserves they may have changed the outcome or at least post phoned it, had they pulled out of China like many generals wanted that would have freed up allot of resources, same for Germany had a few things changed that outcome may have changed as well. Remember had we lost at Midway the outcome would have been much different and that was more of a fluke and a fuckup on Japan’s part. Same for Germany had Hitler stopped at France and the US did not get involved there would be allot of German speaking countries in Europe, remember prior to lend/lease Russia was pretty much beaten, they had nothing, the key to all of this was keeping the US out of it, which all axis nations failed at.