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Posted: 4/25/2021 8:46:06 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: maybe it's just me, but i immediately get turned off when someone mentions "but competitive shooters do it" How many of those sportsmen and women, carry their full house race gun, all day every day, everywhere? |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 9:00:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who makes those grips ? |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 9:01:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If anything, I've been carrying full size handguns more often. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 9:07:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My compact is a G26 Yes, it is an anomaly. I shoot mine well. As a chief years ago, I carried a G27 and extended or reduced mags as needed depending on dress and circumstances. Much preferred it to 19/23 or larger. Now my primary duty gun in full uniform is a P226. I will likely switch to a G48 with shield mags as it shoots well enough and my Dr said I must reduce weight on my belt until crash injuries heal. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 9:41:31 AM EDT
[#5]
With good holsters and belts I think subcompact guns are obsolete.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 9:43:17 AM EDT
[#6]
The largest non revolver handguns I own are my G19s. All the big stuff has been sold.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 9:50:15 AM EDT
[#7]
Not hardly. The latest crop of micro 9’s are great options for edc, but they’re not nearly as practical as a full-size handgun in situations where concealment isn’t necessary. They’re also not nearly as fun at the range as full size handguns are.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:00:08 AM EDT
[#8]
My handguns are a S&w shield, 1911, cz75, model 13 and a p09. Plus a few pocket pistols. So probably a 50/50 split. I much prefer a full size gun.
But let another ban on standard size mags happen and you will see far more subcompacts and a resurgence in 40 s&w. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:05:23 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many of those sportsmen and women, carry their full house race gun, all day every day, everywhere? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: maybe it's just me, but i immediately get turned off when someone mentions "but competitive shooters do it" How many of those sportsmen and women, carry their full house race gun, all day every day, everywhere? A lot of hobby level Production, Limited, and Carry Optics types compete with their carry or nightstand guns. In addition to going around everyday in real life in their Velcro fastener orthotic shoes and vests, it’s not uncommon for IDPA types to Carry their competition gun. They even had compact carry pistol and backup gun divisions. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:20:57 AM EDT
[#10]
Nope.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:23:17 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:42:26 AM EDT
[#12]
Subcompacts are for purses.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:44:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @cinco1 What do you mean by ergonomics that makes you shoot a 26 better than a 17? I have huge hands, and a range trip with a buddies 26 lead me to realize I shoot it terribly as I basically have two fingers on the grip. Would be interested to hear what makes you shoot the tiny G better than the full sized one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nope Full size guns are easier to shoot well. @cinco1 What do you mean by ergonomics that makes you shoot a 26 better than a 17? I have huge hands, and a range trip with a buddies 26 lead me to realize I shoot it terribly as I basically have two fingers on the grip. Would be interested to hear what makes you shoot the tiny G better than the full sized one. Over the past decades I have noticed something - Every time I have heard someone bragging about how they can shoot their issue DAO gun better or just as well as any of their buddies’ fancy trigger guns, their 26 better than their buddy’s “raced up’ G34, their RAMI better than their Shadow 2 because it “fits better” and is “quicker to handle”, they outshot everyone with a big fancy tuned up 1911 with their STAR BM they got for 120$, etc. The same thing happens If you finally get them to the range with you or to show up at a match- They are shooting at such a basic, novice level of speed and accuracy they simply don’t notice the difference, were exaggerating, or were straight up lying. I drew and cleared two racks of plates with CZ man’s Shadow 2 at 20m in less time than he drew and only hit 3 plates with his ten round mag. Mr. “My 96D I carried ten years on the job can...” had such slow splits and so much time spent per shot per plate he had zero concept the long reset and pull was slower than some people are already dropping the next plate. Shield shooting stud was so fixated on his awesome headshot groups at 7 yards, he had no concept and was shocked when I put three rounds in three targets, changed mags, and two More in each in a similar time. And I’m a finish in the bottom of the top third/top of the middle third kind of guy when I was stationed at Bragg and would hit matches at Moore County or Wagram. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:44:43 AM EDT
[#14]
I'd rather hunt with my full-size handguns.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:48:03 AM EDT
[#15]
Full size handguns are superior in every conceivable way. If anything, compact handguns are obsolete.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:54:13 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:58:11 AM EDT
[#17]
Uh, what? Are you really asking if fullsize handguns as duty, EDC and combat weapons are obsolete? You fuckin serious?
 Naw, that cant be what you are asking.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:58:38 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many of those sportsmen and women, carry their full house race gun, all day every day, everywhere? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: maybe it's just me, but i immediately get turned off when someone mentions "but competitive shooters do it" How many of those sportsmen and women, carry their full house race gun, all day every day, everywhere? There is still a lot to learn through competition. Remember when people thought optics on pistols were for gun games only? Full size pistols are much easier to shoot well, as such they will continue to be relevant. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:58:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also, they obviously haven't, because they'll still be in regular use in 2071. https://i.imgur.com/7i0S2AC.jpg Bang. Hell yeah. I have 2 of them. Amazingly comfortable to shoot. 10/10. Would recommend. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 10:58:58 AM EDT
[#20]
The smallest I'll carry is a compact like a P239, or P229. They're not really difficult to conceal at all and anything smaller doesn't shoot as well for me.
I honestly don't see why a full size gun like a CZ-75 couldn't be concealed easily in jeans and a t-shirt. Weight would probably be the reason most people give for why they wouldn't. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 11:02:56 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not in the least bit obsolete, but I'm wondering with Shield arms making flush 15 round mags for the 43x, how many other pistols can actually increase their capacity? Would bet nice for a g17 with a flush 20+ round mag, or VP9.... A G17 is pretty well full the limit comes at the maximum staggering width. Looking inside a 43x magazine you can see the rounds aren’t fully staggered. In the G17 they already are. There may be some trickery with thinning the base more and the follower to add 1 round but your limited since it’s already a proper bobble stack vs a 1.5 stack like a G43x/43 or a P227. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 11:11:45 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Over the past decades I have noticed something - Every time I have heard someone bragging about how they can shoot their issue DAO gun better or just as well as any of their buddies’ fancy trigger guns, their 26 better than their buddy’s “raced up’ G34, their RAMI better than their Shadow 2 because it “fits better” and is “quicker to handle”, they outshot everyone with a big fancy tuned up 1911 with their STAR BM they got for 120$, etc. The same thing happens If you finally get them to the range with you or to show up at a match- They are shooting at such a basic, novice level of speed and accuracy they simply don’t notice the difference, were exaggerating, or were straight up lying. I drew and cleared two racks of plates with CZ man’s Shadow 2 at 20m in less time than he drew and only hit 3 plates with his ten round mag. Mr. “My 96D I carried ten years on the job can...” had such slow splits and so much time spent per shot per plate he had zero concept the long reset and pull was slower than some people are already dropping the next plate. Shield shooting stud was so fixated on his awesome headshot groups at 7 yards, he had no concept and was shocked when I put three rounds in three targets, changed mags, and two More in each in a similar time. And I’m a finish in the bottom of the top third/top of the middle third kind of guy when I was stationed at Bragg and would hit matches at Moore County or Wagram. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nope Full size guns are easier to shoot well. @cinco1 What do you mean by ergonomics that makes you shoot a 26 better than a 17? I have huge hands, and a range trip with a buddies 26 lead me to realize I shoot it terribly as I basically have two fingers on the grip. Would be interested to hear what makes you shoot the tiny G better than the full sized one. Over the past decades I have noticed something - Every time I have heard someone bragging about how they can shoot their issue DAO gun better or just as well as any of their buddies’ fancy trigger guns, their 26 better than their buddy’s “raced up’ G34, their RAMI better than their Shadow 2 because it “fits better” and is “quicker to handle”, they outshot everyone with a big fancy tuned up 1911 with their STAR BM they got for 120$, etc. The same thing happens If you finally get them to the range with you or to show up at a match- They are shooting at such a basic, novice level of speed and accuracy they simply don’t notice the difference, were exaggerating, or were straight up lying. I drew and cleared two racks of plates with CZ man’s Shadow 2 at 20m in less time than he drew and only hit 3 plates with his ten round mag. Mr. “My 96D I carried ten years on the job can...” had such slow splits and so much time spent per shot per plate he had zero concept the long reset and pull was slower than some people are already dropping the next plate. Shield shooting stud was so fixated on his awesome headshot groups at 7 yards, he had no concept and was shocked when I put three rounds in three targets, changed mags, and two More in each in a similar time. And I’m a finish in the bottom of the top third/top of the middle third kind of guy when I was stationed at Bragg and would hit matches at Moore County or Wagram. I dont entirely disagree with you but there are plenty of people who can back up their claims and there are plenty of people who suck who shoot $3k 1911s, shadows, zeved out g34s etc. Its the indian |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 11:17:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A G17 is pretty well full the limit comes at the maximum staggering width. Looking inside a 43x magazine you can see the rounds aren’t fully staggered. In the G17 they already are. There may be some trickery with thinning the base more and the follower to add 1 round but your limited since it’s already a proper bobble stack vs a 1.5 stack like a G43x/43 or a P227. Glock may not be a great example, because the plastic cladding on their mag bodies wastes a fair amount of space. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 11:24:14 AM EDT
[#24]
Give me a Glock 19/23 or my P226 for carry everyday of the week.
I tried carrying a 27 years ago and trading it for my 23 was one of the best decisions I've made. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 11:28:41 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glock may not be a great example, because the plastic cladding on their mag bodies wastes a fair amount of space. It’s true for the 43x/43 as well as the 36. The mags are not true double stack or on the case of the 43 it’s closer to a single stack. The G17 mag could be a 1/4 or 1/8 wider and it wouldn’t hold any more ammo. The ammo in the mag is already at a perfect staggered double stack. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 11:34:17 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope Full size guns are easier to shoot well. Yup... |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 11:36:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Yes. Compact for portability, long guns for home. How do some not understand this.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 11:36:58 AM EDT
[#28]
They're the only pistol I'll buy.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 11:38:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Compact for portability, long guns for home. How do some not understand this. I don't understand this outlook. A pistol is already a compromise to begin with, why would I want to add compromise on top of comprise? Full sized pistols are not difficult to carry. I'm doing it right now |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 11:47:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Compact for portability, long guns for home. How do some not understand this. Some aren't lazy |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 11:59:38 AM EDT
[#31]
Sporting one right now so not in my world.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:01:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Hell nah with a good holster you can comfortably carry full size pistols no problem
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:04:13 PM EDT
[#33]
I prefer to carry a full size handgun most of the time.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:05:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. Tell me how many competition shooters are using small frame pistols. Which is pretty much irrelevant, life isn't a shooting competition on a shot timer. If you are relying on trying to go all John Wick with a handgun, you either made poor decisions leading up to that fight and/or brought the wrong gun. But really, we are approaching run-what-you-brung time. It's a pistol, it doesn't really matter all that much as long as it goes bang. If someone could, or can, get only a full size at the time, especially piggybacking off cheap and available mags/holsters/parts, then so be it. How many of you are going to be able to stack parts, mags, and accessories deep for, say, a P365 or G43 - vs. your ability to do so for a G19, G17, 226, M9, etc? |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:07:18 PM EDT
[#35]
I dont know, I guess there could be a case for it in some capacity ( pun may or may not intended, not sure) , this coming from a full sized combat pistol advocate, me . The question I have is if they can fit all those rounds in those tiny little guns where are the 25 round flush fit magazines for full size pistols ? I get the engineering aspect but it would be nice anyway.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:08:32 PM EDT
[#36]
No.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:15:04 PM EDT
[#37]
I am NOT a tier 1 operator.
That said: the few actual "operators" I've know can shoot almost any handgun better than myself, but... ...they'll doubletap and drill 10x's better with a full sized Sig or something than any of of us "normies"  The full sized handgun is superior for it's balance and recoil avsorbtion. If you fire enough rounds in training, it's seems to be the difference between a Honda Accord and a Porsche  Both will get you out of a situation quickly, but one will do it a whole fucking lot better if you have the skills  Speed |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:17:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont entirely disagree with you but there are plenty of people who can back up their claims and there are plenty of people who suck who shoot $3k 1911s, shadows, zeved out g34s etc. Its the indian Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nope Full size guns are easier to shoot well. @cinco1 What do you mean by ergonomics that makes you shoot a 26 better than a 17? I have huge hands, and a range trip with a buddies 26 lead me to realize I shoot it terribly as I basically have two fingers on the grip. Would be interested to hear what makes you shoot the tiny G better than the full sized one. Over the past decades I have noticed something - Every time I have heard someone bragging about how they can shoot their issue DAO gun better or just as well as any of their buddies’ fancy trigger guns, their 26 better than their buddy’s “raced up’ G34, their RAMI better than their Shadow 2 because it “fits better” and is “quicker to handle”, they outshot everyone with a big fancy tuned up 1911 with their STAR BM they got for 120$, etc. The same thing happens If you finally get them to the range with you or to show up at a match- They are shooting at such a basic, novice level of speed and accuracy they simply don’t notice the difference, were exaggerating, or were straight up lying. I drew and cleared two racks of plates with CZ man’s Shadow 2 at 20m in less time than he drew and only hit 3 plates with his ten round mag. Mr. “My 96D I carried ten years on the job can...” had such slow splits and so much time spent per shot per plate he had zero concept the long reset and pull was slower than some people are already dropping the next plate. Shield shooting stud was so fixated on his awesome headshot groups at 7 yards, he had no concept and was shocked when I put three rounds in three targets, changed mags, and two More in each in a similar time. And I’m a finish in the bottom of the top third/top of the middle third kind of guy when I was stationed at Bragg and would hit matches at Moore County or Wagram. I dont entirely disagree with you but there are plenty of people who can back up their claims and there are plenty of people who suck who shoot $3k 1911s, shadows, zeved out g34s etc. Its the indian We’re kind of talking about two different things. I’m not talking about guys that make the kind of claims that can be backed up. Sure, some can can grab a stock M9, M11, or Glock off the rack and shoot circles around me even if I had the world’s best open gun. Ben Stoeger is going to outshoot me with a high point, but he is not going to score the same on a stage with a 92D or RAMI compared to a tuned up Elite II or Shadow 2. Guys that claim they shoot the same or better with one.... just are not shooting at even a medium let alone high level. Ernest Langdon is going to clean my clock with an out of the box PX4 Compact even if I have one of his tuned, RDO equipped full sized 92s. But he will beat his PX4C times with one. I am more talking about the guys who say stuff like “I can draw and thumb my hammer and get off my first shot SA just as quick as I could draw and shot DA” or “I’m just as good with my 26 as my 34” that think they are good, But really don’t just have the experience or ability to understand how the claims don’t pan out. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:19:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Carried a German made SIG 220 yesterday to dine out and grocery shop with my woman. I usually carry a G17. At the shop, there is a 1911 that I pack at work.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:24:57 PM EDT
[#40]
i dont have much use for full size pistols. all my ccw guns are compacts.
full size ones are good for suppressor use though. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:25:04 PM EDT
[#41]
For me,yes. Since the best handgun is the one you have with you.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:25:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where the hell do you people come up with retarded questions like this? That's the funniest thing I've read in this thread. I prefer a Hi-Point. That way when I run out of ammo I can beat the crap out of the SOB with it. I've carried a 1911 and a S&W 1076 for years. And once and a while a Hi-Power. Never a problem. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:43:22 PM EDT
[#43]
My EDC is an M&P2 duty gun. I have an LCPII for when I just can’t carry it for some reason. The M&P conceals just fine. After the first couple of weeks, I don’t even notice it anymore.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:49:47 PM EDT
[#44]
If you ignore things like muzzle velocity they are.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 12:55:50 PM EDT
[#45]
Bullet technology and RDSs render barrel length irrelevant, not obsolete.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 1:02:24 PM EDT
[#46]
Of the handguns I own, the minimum I'd want in my hand to defend myself, wherever, Glock 23.
The smallest handgun I carried in over 3 years is Glock 23. I prefer a grip that accomodates all my fingers. I'd really prefer my 20SF or Glock 35 in hand rather than the 23 but I consider the 23 sufficient taking into account summer clothes. Anywhere I'd prefer to defend myself with a pocket size gun rather than at least the Glock 23? No, nope, no thanks, which is why at least the 23 gets carried. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 1:03:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bullet technology and RDSs render barrel length irrelevant, not obsolete. More like longer barrels are unnecessary, not obsolete. |
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Posted: 4/25/2021 1:10:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Nope. Full size are great as woods walking guns, night stand guns, vehicle console guns. They are easier to control as well.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 1:15:46 PM EDT
[#49]
Nope, sold my G19, it was too small in my hands.
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Posted: 4/25/2021 1:16:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Home defense means a full size pistol with laser and light. Easy to shoot well, and high magazine cap. Better than an AR to clear a house or hold a kid or dog.
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