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Posted: 2/24/2020 10:48:27 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
9mm over penetrates vs 223, is less effective and pistols are harder to hit with vs rifles. How many gunfights, inside a structure, have you been in? |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 10:50:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Ideal?
6" 300 BO SBR with a mini can, IR laser, and an NVG set up. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 10:57:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And why shouldn't someone be armed in their home? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not defending the shootings, but every one I know of the person was armed. I was pointing out that the the shootings I know of where police shot the home owners through windows, the home owners were armed. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:01:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't say that. I was pointing out that the the shootings I know of where police shot the home owners through windows, the home owners were armed. What's your point? Unless someone simply being legally armed is a reason to shoot them, it's not really relevant. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:07:48 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So were the cops. What's your point? Unless someone simply being legally armed is a reason to shoot them, it's not really relevant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I didn't say that. I was pointing out that the the shootings I know of where police shot the home owners through windows, the home owners were armed. What's your point? Unless someone simply being legally armed is a reason to shoot them, it's not really relevant. Quoted:We've seen that you don't even have to answer the door or actually have a firearm to be shot by an anxious police officer. Getting shot through a window while standing in your home has been an issue in the last year, discussed here on arfcom and had some arfcops defending it as a legitimate use of force. So, YMMV. I'm bringing firepower. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:08:51 AM EDT
[#6]
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The reality is I've investigated a whole lot of defensive shootings, many inside homes or apartments. None were with an AR that were not police action shootings. Only one of those was with an AR, or any centerfire rifle. The vast majority were with a shotgun or pistol. 2 were with .22 rifles, both Marlin model 60s. ALL resulted in the attacker being shot or driven off. Only one involved more than 3 rounds being fired. That one was one of the .22lr marlins. The attacker was actually DRT by shot #3, however just to be sure, she emptied the tube into him. My take is that everyone's circumstance is different and people use whatever they have and they are comfortable with. I know we are AR enthusiasts here and many justify their expenditure on equipment and express their political opinions based upon the self defense scenario. That desire however does not coincide with reality. The mongol hoard is not bursting into your dining room, and if it is, you got bigger issues. Use whatever you want and can shoot well. Bear in mind that what I might choose for patrol, which can and has resulted in standoff engagements at greater than 50 yards, is not the same reality in typical home defense distances. I'm sure we have someone here who owns 50yrds of indoor living room space in their palace, but that is not the case for the vast majority. Most will be engaging at less than 40 or 50 feet in any straight interior line and most of those at less than that. In addition, rifles that are not suppressed are extremely loud indoors, loud enough to be disorienting to the operator of said rifle. Pistols or shotguns, less so. You pays your money, you takes your chances. If you happen to live in a third world war zone, YMMV. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:12:40 AM EDT
[#7]
Whatever is on my nightstand from being carried that day, plus a couple of GLOCKs salted away in inconspicuous places.
A Ruger 10/22 in the corner for rural varmints that may come prowling. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:25:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Traditional stocks are better for CQB vs pistol grips. Fudd rifles are better in front of a jury. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So you want your hd gun to be a mini14?  Fudd rifles are better in front of a jury.  What is it with these weird misinformed home defense threads this morning?
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:31:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whatever is on my nightstand from being carried that day, plus a couple of GLOCKs salted away in inconspicuous places. A Ruger 10/22 in the corner for rural varmints that may come prowling. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:32:03 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Choice: Customized Ruger Mini-14 with shortened wood stock, light and can. Reality: 10.75" 5.56 AR pistol with red dot, light and can. What's your pick and why? 
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:36:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Choice-VEPR12
Reality- All manner of calibers including a 12 gauge but just want a VEPR (I’d settle for a Saiga) |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:42:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not sure why the fuck you seem intent on starting an argument on this topic, but since you've decided to ignore the first god damned post I replied to I'll quote it for you. That way you can MAYBE get an understanding of why I posted what I did. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
I didn't say that. I was pointing out that the the shootings I know of where police shot the home owners through windows, the home owners were armed. What's your point? Unless someone simply being legally armed is a reason to shoot them, it's not really relevant. Quoted:We've seen that you don't even have to answer the door or actually have a firearm to be shot by an anxious police officer. Getting shot through a window while standing in your home has been an issue in the last year, discussed here on arfcom and had some arfcops defending it as a legitimate use of force. So, YMMV. I'm bringing firepower. 
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:44:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, I do keep a 10/22 handy for yotes that cross the red line. Mr. Peobody the Dachsund is unfortunately braver than his size should encourage. 
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:46:58 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Traditional stocks are better for CQB vs pistol grips. Fudd rifles are better in front of a jury. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:48:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's like you read that in a gun rag, in 1990. How many gunfights, inside a structure, have you been in? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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9mm over penetrates vs 223, is less effective and pistols are harder to hit with vs rifles. How many gunfights, inside a structure, have you been in? |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:50:37 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wuuuuuut? What is it with these weird misinformed home defense threads this morning? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
So you want your hd gun to be a mini14? Fudd rifles are better in front of a jury. What is it with these weird misinformed home defense threads this morning?
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:54:11 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Missed that, sorry Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I didn't say that. I was pointing out that the the shootings I know of where police shot the home owners through windows, the home owners were armed. What's your point? Unless someone simply being legally armed is a reason to shoot them, it's not really relevant. Quoted:We've seen that you don't even have to answer the door or actually have a firearm to be shot by an anxious police officer. Getting shot through a window while standing in your home has been an issue in the last year, discussed here on arfcom and had some arfcops defending it as a legitimate use of force. So, YMMV. I'm bringing firepower.
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Posted: 2/24/2020 11:58:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, they're not. Pistol grip also lets you hold the weapon one-handed more easily (to use the phone, open a door, etc.) Any shot from a firearm is lethal force. Lethal force = lethal force. Legit HD shootings shouldn't end up in front of a jury. The jury issue might come down to a turd, anti-gun prosecutor. Your case will probably at least go before a grand jury. Lots of good options for home defense. Mine is an AR pistol with a 9.5" 300BO barrel, loaded with subs, equipped with a suppressor, and a small gun light on a side rail. It also has a LAW Tactical folder so it shortens down nicely for stowing in an unseen location. I can shoot this gun all day/night without ear protection, and I think ear damage is something everyone should consider in their home defense gun. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 12:02:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Traditional stocks are better for CQB vs pistol grips. Fudd rifles are better in front of a jury. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So you want your hd gun to be a mini14? Fudd rifles are better in front of a jury. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 12:06:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Choice-VEPR12 Reality- All manner of calibers including a 12 gauge but just want a VEPR (I’d settle for a Saiga) Do you have a magic one? |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 12:12:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve never seen a VEPR which didn’t come out of Dissident that actually made it all the way through a 3-Gun match without shitting the sheets. Do you have a magic one? I always wanted a saiga but just saw that IV8888 review on a VEPR12 and he didn’t show any of that! Lol Oh well. I don’t have 1k+ just laying around anyway *unlike most of arf |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 12:12:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which Gundam for home defense? https://i.imgur.com/rpxCqoG.gif https://i.imgur.com/oxYSiX4.gif Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Choice? Robot Samurai with full armor and swords. https://i.imgur.com/rpxCqoG.gif https://i.imgur.com/oxYSiX4.gif 
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Posted: 2/24/2020 12:17:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope that's the AT4-CS variant!
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Posted: 2/24/2020 12:20:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look, not everyone is part of a crack team of commandos.... a few are on a team of crack commandos. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So you want your hd gun to be a mini14? Fudd rifles are better in front of a jury. What is it with these weird misinformed home defense threads this morning? 
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Posted: 2/24/2020 12:24:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Choice: Tavor X95 and HK45CT.
Reality: Tavor X95 and HK45CT. Not an issue for me. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 12:24:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What did this "experience" consist of? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Just my experience as an amateur and working with other amateurs. Conventional stock was easier to support gun one-handed and retain if grabbed. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 12:31:12 PM EDT
[#27]
I use a gas operated semi-auto shotgun with a weapon light.
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Posted: 2/24/2020 12:42:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Either one will put a hole in a bad guy. /shrug
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Posted: 2/24/2020 1:24:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's all good. Usually, if I'm an asshole, it's on purpose.....
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Posted: 2/24/2020 1:48:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Choice, Frag grenades, haha
Reality, FNP-45 Tactical with light, Beretta 1301 with Low Recoil 00 Buck, AR-15 SBR suppressed with light and red dot and M885A1 |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 1:59:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Until you shoot them in the head, and blow their face off. Jury in a civil trial sees pics, you are screwed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If a jury is your primary concern for a HD gun, you should be looking at pump shotguns. 
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Posted: 2/24/2020 2:01:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Depends on what I am defending against. If it's Joe Biden the best defense is a vote for Trump. If it's Joe Biden's F-15, then I was a SAM.
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Posted: 2/24/2020 2:02:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Beretta 1301 tac gen 2
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Posted: 2/24/2020 2:04:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Choice: AAC Honey Badger
Reality: Glock 26 and flashlight. With my cat as a house-clearing partner. 
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Posted: 2/24/2020 2:11:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Choice: SEAL Team 6
Reality: 9mm CZ clone with crossed flashlight. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 2:18:27 PM EDT
[#36]
FRONT TOWARD ENEMY
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Posted: 2/24/2020 2:25:51 PM EDT
[#37]
The one I'm good with vs. the one that looks cool.
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Posted: 2/24/2020 3:06:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same rationalization as a 12 gage, really. Don't need to aim it, just point down the hallway and pull the trigger, only with the Mini you just have to do it repeatedly. You know the whole "6 foot wide pattern of death" urban legend about shotguns? With the Mini-14, it's reality. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So you want your hd gun to be a mini14? You know the whole "6 foot wide pattern of death" urban legend about shotguns? With the Mini-14, it's reality. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 3:43:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, so the majority opinion is that I'm tarded. Educate me in the wise ways. ...most of us are.
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Posted: 2/24/2020 3:47:24 PM EDT
[#40]
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What year is it? 1998? |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 4:24:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure that's just bullshit repeated by tards on the interwebz Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So you want your hd gun to be a mini14? Fudd rifles are better in front of a jury.
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Posted: 2/24/2020 5:11:24 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like some recreational jerking and tugging on "guns" with his friends. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Just my experience as an amateur and working with other amateurs. Conventional stock was easier to support gun one-handed and retain if grabbed. We figured out that most casual shooters did better with conventional stocks vs pistol grips. People who are dedicated to the craft are a different story. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 5:23:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Correct! We figured out that most casual shooters did better with conventional stocks vs pistol grips. People who are dedicated to the craft are a different story. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Just my experience as an amateur and working with other amateurs. Conventional stock was easier to support gun one-handed and retain if grabbed. We figured out that most casual shooters did better with conventional stocks vs pistol grips. People who are dedicated to the craft are a different story. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 5:25:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Traditional stocks are better for CQB vs pistol grips. Fudd rifles are better in front of a jury. 
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Posted: 2/24/2020 5:39:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Mine rapier :
The local gun's rules are picky, but if I have a choice - .45 pistol , no striker-fired, 1911 may be a good choice but I lean to more compact option like USP or whatever . But now I'm completely fine with the sword 
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Posted: 2/24/2020 5:41:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 9mm over penetrates vs 223, is less effective and pistols are harder to hit with vs rifles. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 5:41:33 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you guys talking about pistol grip as in shockwave shotgun with no brace, or ar15 with both a pistol grip and a stock? |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 5:45:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This ignores the reality of CQB regarding weapons retention and the disorientation which occurs from discharging an AR in a small space w/o hearing protection. You aren't in AFG clearing houses, you're getting out of bed, wiping your eyes and trying to sort shit out from a dead sleep. Full size, hicap pistol with a light every time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: 9mm over penetrates vs 223, is less effective and pistols are harder to hit with vs rifles. 4 points of contact with a long gun makes them easier to align with a target. Again, folks dedicated to the craft are a different story. |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 5:50:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True. 4 points of contact with a long gun makes them easier to align with a target. Again, folks dedicated to the craft are a different story.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/24/2020 7:35:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True. 4 points of contact with a long gun makes them easier to align with a target. Again, folks dedicated to the craft are a different story. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: 9mm over penetrates vs 223, is less effective and pistols are harder to hit with vs rifles. 4 points of contact with a long gun makes them easier to align with a target. Again, folks dedicated to the craft are a different story. Train at the range like this... Close eyes for a solid minute, open eyes, pick pistol up, hit paper plate at 15 feet. Anyone who should be keeping a pistol in the house should be able to do this with a little practice. I just did this with my 78 yo Dad with a Shield EZ 9mm and he hasn't shot any firearms in 30 years. He's only ever shot a Ruger Bearcat 22 pistol and bolt guns and he nailed it. Other part of training should be done shuffling around your home at night with gun and dummy rounds. |
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