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Posted: 10/25/2011 12:08:14 PM EDT
[#1]
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At 300 yards, your typical .223 round is at the mercy of both the wind and gravity. At 500 yards with an AR I'd say that it's challenging. 500 yards with a good .308 bolt gun is doable. However, at 400 yards the .308 also starts dropping like a stone. I don't care what people say, having the skill to be reliably hit a man or game sized target at 500 yards or further takes great skill and practice, and should be considered an a worthy achievement. This is the truth. I bet most of the people here would have a hard time making even a 3rd round hit in anything other than the most ideal conditions. Are you even serious? Yeah, I am. I spend enough time at public ranges to know that the average level of skill in shooting is remarkably low. Couple that with the insane claims that are made all the time on the internet and it's not hard to say that most people couldn't make the shot. But OP is talking about practicing to learn how to do it, not about being a fudd who fires five shots a year from his deer gun and who wants to set up a target to see how many shots before he can steer a round in. At Boomershoot in Idaho, people regularly hit half-pint milk cartons at 350yds, and half-gallon cartons out at 700. Sure, part of it is luck, but you have to have enough skill that the luck can come into play. A man-sized target at 500 is a piece of cake, relatively speaking. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 12:11:29 PM EDT
[#2]
My best shots at 500 yards were with reloaded 55 fmj, a 16" DD upper, and a standard aimpoint. I was able to hit a man size steel plate multiple times once i figured out the hold over.
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Posted: 10/25/2011 12:21:27 PM EDT
[#3]
I got a first round hit a 1k with a LaRue OBR at the Rock Castle event. Of course, I had Dakota spotting for me and told me the dope.
My personal AR-10 with optic, 500 is trivial for first round hits. Have driven it to 800 but it took a couple of shots to get the wind right. A 20" AR-15 with iron sights and proper sling use, 5 for 5 at 500 yards on 4 MOA steel. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 12:28:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: At 300 yards, your typical .223 round is at the mercy of both the wind and gravity. At 500 yards with an AR I'd say that it's challenging. 500 yards with a good .308 bolt gun is doable. However, at 400 yards the .308 also starts dropping like a stone. I don't care what people say, having the skill to be reliably hit a man or game sized target at 500 yards or further takes great skill and practice, and should be considered an a worthy achievement. Man sized target is pretty damn big at 500 yards with a scoped rifle. It's really not that hard when you have your dope on your rifle. Now iron sights , I don't have the eyes for it anymore. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 12:34:18 PM EDT
[#5]
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I don't believe you understand how this works. Quoted:
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How about off-hand with iron sights? Better be a big ass target  +1 I tried it. The front sight blade covers a man size target at 400yds  Actually I do and did hit paper 
It's just anything beyond 50yds I consider scope range
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Posted: 10/25/2011 12:36:01 PM EDT
[#6]
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USMC KD course .....10 rounds at 500 yards.....I usually went 7 out of 10. Fucking this. And I did it with this: http://xbradtc.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/m16a2.gif No HBAR, no optics, no bipod, just a plain old issued rifle and iron sights. Is it hard? Not in the least if you apply the fundamentals and don't rush your shots. X4
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Posted: 10/25/2011 12:38:55 PM EDT
[#7]
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How about off-hand with iron sights? Too far to do with any real probability, I'd say. 200 is not bad with good gear.  LOL no kidding Go to a CMP match |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 12:46:24 PM EDT
[#8]
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USMC KD course .....10 rounds at 500 yards.....I usually went 7 out of 10. I'm about the same. I've made 7-8 shots in the black with both an M4 and M16 with iron sights and issued ammo. It's tough, but not impossible by any means. Now, to put this in perspective I've also shot company high shooter before on the KD range out of 250 Marines, so I would say I'm an above average shot. The 500 is my worst distance though... The last time I did the KD course, I possibled the 300 and 500, a great range day, even if I left points at the 200. Damn standing gets me! |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 12:52:03 PM EDT
[#9]
There is nothing more satisfying and frustrating at the same time than shooting an AR out to 1K yds...
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Posted: 10/25/2011 12:53:46 PM EDT
[#10]
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we shoot 12x12 steel or 6x8 steel heads depending on the match.. look in the pics... info on the matches is here... the head hunter match is 1 shot only, from 300 to 600 on the heads... 30 targets total... only 1 man has ever run a 30 for 30 .. tom sarver, the owner, useing a 300 HULK, "338lap necked to .30" The TVP .300 Hulk CS Rifle. 18.5 MOA to 1000 yards and 54 MOA to a mile from a 100 yard zero I shoot at TVP as well and 500y with a decent AR setup on the 12x12 targets really isn't that hard if you have good dope/wind calls and have good fundamentals. Hell, we'll shoot clay birds at 600 with the 223 AR's and do just fine. Oh and Tom cleaned the HH course with his 338 doing load testing with the new berger 300gr hybrids, he set the world record for 5 shot group @1000 with the hulk. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 1:14:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Don't know, I've shot at reduced ipsc steel targets at ~180 yards with no problem out of a 16" Spikes with irons.
Last sun I was hitting 20oz water bottles out of a 20" FN PSA and iron sights with ease. But that's all I know. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 1:19:06 PM EDT
[#12]
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It took me 3 shots to hit a prairie dog at 497, in what I estimated to be 18mph wind. Only the first wouldn't have hit a man sized target. Of course this was from a rest. I'm dubious of my ability to hit a man sized target at that range in anything but prone supported with a sling, or from a rest. PDs give you both the blessing and the curse of blades of grass here and there to let you know the wind downrange, it's like somebody went and put wind flags in every direction you plan to shoot.
The downside, is past 300yd, all those flags get in the way of what you want to shoot, especially if they are horizontal and not standing up, or just peeking out of a hole, giving you a 3" round target. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 1:25:18 PM EDT
[#13]
I've been involved in taking numerous new shooters out to try the 600 yard line for the first time, we'd make sure they had a good zero at 200 or 300, give them a standard elevation adjustment, and watch the trace of their shots through a scope to help them make adjustments. Most people had no problem figuring it out within a couple of shots, did have one cop who didn't have enough elevation adjustment available on his sniper rifle (should be 10-12 minutes up from a 300yd zero, for my match AR-15 it's 10, it's a total of 22 minutes up from being bottomed out).
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Posted: 10/25/2011 1:33:32 PM EDT
[#14]
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On the Internet... I can do it with one shot. In reality... The last time I took such a shot was at the BRM 3-gun back in April. IIRC the target was at 540 yards. Hit it with my second shot. 16" AR with a 1-4 power scope. I'm sure there was a little bit of plain ol' dumb luck involved. What range do you have your rifle zero'd at? I am assuming the targets are from 25 out to 540 for the match? Zero'd at 100yrds... At the last BRM 3G rifle targets were 10 yards to that one 540 yarder. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 1:45:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: How about off-hand with iron sights? done not terribly hard I need to work down to some smaller targets but they're almost impossible to see at that point
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Posted: 10/25/2011 1:52:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Wow, I don't know what ranges you all shoot at but here at my range most guys can't hit shit past 200 yards. I shoot CMP matches and 200 yards with a service rifle is a challenge but not hard with good practice. 500 yards off a bench or prone maybe on a good day with no wind. 500 yards with a properly set-up gun with an optic yes, people who say they can get consistent hits at 300 plus yards offhand with a service rifle are full of shit. you're more than welcome to come up to PA and shoot with me... I'll show you how it's done |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 2:17:54 PM EDT
[#17]
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Is it hard? Not in the least if you apply the fundamentals and don't rush your shots. THIS. A two stage trigger will help alot also. Practice dry firing at home to work on trigger release and follow through. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 2:26:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Trivial if you have the proper equipment. http://members.cox.net/southparkmilitia/images/guns/AR-50_+_CA_Kid.jpg Heck, you don't *need* any of that. Any Marine with a rack grade M-16A2 can hit a target at 500 yards with nothing more than a sling and a good prone position. m |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 2:47:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about off-hand with iron sights? Better be a big ass target +1 I tried it. The front sight blade covers a man size target at 400yds "frame hold" was my friend....  I remember the first time I tried a frame hold. Works really well. From that point on I managed 9 or 10 for 10 on the KD course. m |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 2:50:11 PM EDT
[#20]
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USMC KD course .....10 rounds at 500 yards.....I usually went 7 out of 10. Fucking this. And I did it with this: http://xbradtc.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/m16a2.gif No HBAR, no optics, no bipod, just a plain old issued rifle and iron sights. Is it hard? Not in the least if you apply the fundamentals and don't rush your shots. Same here, never got all ten in the black, but I got 9 once. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 2:53:02 PM EDT
[#21]
I've done 600 yards A2 iron sights with a DCM AR15 and match ammo for High Power competition.
I've done 500 yards A1 iron sights with an M16A1 clone and ball ammo at a 3-gun match. I've done 800+ yards A2 iron sights with a DCM AR15 and match ammo for fun. I've done 500 yards with my Springfield GI M1911A1. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 2:54:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: One, to get a read of the wind. This is good advice. Wind reading is a skill an art that you need to hit accurately past 250-300 yds. Fixed it fer ya...  |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 2:59:00 PM EDT
[#23]
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How about off-hand with iron sights? Too far to do with any real probability, I'd say. 200 is not bad with good gear. Either I am seriously under-appreciating my skills or 200yards off-hand w/ iron sights in to a torso sized target should be doable by most who practice shooting their rifles. Am I out on a limb here? |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 4:26:12 PM EDT
[#24]
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How about off-hand with iron sights? go to the dcm high power sub forum in the training tab. these guys shoot 600 yards regularly with iron sights. f class even has 1000 yard iron sights. with a little practice you can be there too. these are not bench rested they shoot from the prone position. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 4:33:00 PM EDT
[#25]
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How about off-hand with iron sights? Every weekend on Larue sized steel.
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Posted: 10/25/2011 4:43:21 PM EDT
[#26]
It could take me as many as 3 or 4 shots with irons on an M16A2 to get on but I've never really been a spectacular shot.
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Posted: 10/25/2011 4:50:55 PM EDT
[#27]
I've hit man sized targets at 600m with a 100 year old Mauser 7/57mm carbine using iron sights a lot of luck and a good spotter on the scope.
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Posted: 10/25/2011 4:58:29 PM EDT
[#28]
I have an indoor shooting range... and it always amazes me how much trouble the average person has just trying to hit a 16"x24" sheet of paper 15 yards in front of them.
I understand there are some very talented and decorated shooters on this site... but I can assure you, the average person can't shoot worth a fuck. 
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Posted: 10/25/2011 5:10:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Practice. Fairly easy to do. Shooting in the desert area (here) 500 meter shots are the norm. It's surprising that when you pull the trigger, the 'hit' happens almost in the same instant - sweet. Shooting small groups (not chest sized areas) are a bit more difficult. Know your abilities and know your wepon.
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Posted: 10/25/2011 5:37:54 PM EDT
[#30]
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I have an indoor shooting range... and it always amazes me how much trouble the average person has just trying to hit a 16"x24" sheet of paper 15 yards in front of them.
I understand there are some very talented and decorated shooters on this site... but I can assure you, the average person can't shoot worth a fuck. I'll agree here..... I see some shooters who are lucky they can get bulets out of the right end of the gun Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 5:40:51 PM EDT
[#31]
a man sized target at 500 yards with my bolt gun would be first shot out of the gun almost for use. with my 18" ar it might be the 2nd shot. people make really big targets.
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Posted: 10/25/2011 5:51:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Taking my time from prone, I can reliably hit a man size steel plate at 550 with my 6920 with irons, and can do so more reliably with my optic.
How much practice? However much practice you need to learn good breath control, trigger control, and sight alignment. Could be a day. Could be impossible. Depends on you. Past about 600, it becomes much harder to hit with 5.56 in even the slightest wind. I find wind is usually what screws you up at these longer ranges. Drop isn't too hard to figure out. And if you can master the fundamentals of marksmanship, you can hit at extreme distances... But wind is a random factor that can never be really eliminated and compounds with distance. 7.62x51 does a lot better at 600-700 than 5.56, both in resistance to wind and also in energy at those distances. Longer barreled 7.62x51s can push that out a bit further still. I will point out, though, that just because you can reliably hit a man sized target at a given range, does not translate into hitting a man reliably at that distance... People move. 5.56's time of flight at 500-550 is significant. Being able to drop a unsuspecting guy standing at 550 is one thing. Hitting someone who knows he is being shot at would be far more challenging. TR85. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 5:56:04 PM EDT
[#33]
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There is nothing more satisfying and frustrating at the same time than shooting an AR out to 1K yds... http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/1ktargetup.jpg Do you typically have access to that sort of range? If so, I'm jealous. It's a multi-hour drive for me if I want to push past 550 meters. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:04:09 PM EDT
[#34]
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At 300 yards, your typical .223 round is at the mercy of both the wind and gravity. At 500 yards with an AR I'd say that it's challenging. 500 yards with a good .308 bolt gun is doable. However, at 400 yards the .308 also starts dropping like a stone. I don't care what people say, having the skill to be reliably hit a man or game sized target at 500 yards or further takes great skill and practice, and should be considered an a worthy achievement. This is the truth. I bet most of the people here would have a hard time making even a 3rd round hit in anything other than the most ideal conditions. I'll go along with your "most people here (or most anywhere)" assertion, but I disagree completely with the idea that hits at 500 yards on stationary man-sized targets are any kind of achievement. A rough familiarity with external ballistics and application of the fundamentals of marksmanship will do the trick just fine. At 400 meters you can generally still get by with favors and holds for windage without having to resort to math. I won't even touch on the technical aspects mentioned above, except to say that I shoot 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm to 1000 yards and beyond (and everywhere in between) quite regularly with excellent results and so do most of the people I run with. Boutique calibers only grow your margin for error. They don't make new possibilities a reality. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:11:47 PM EDT
[#35]
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There is nothing more satisfying and frustrating at the same time than shooting an AR out to 1K yds... http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/1ktargetup.jpg Do you typically have access to that sort of range? If so, I'm jealous. It's a multi-hour drive for me if I want to push past 550 meters. That's Viale Range at Camp Perry. I get one weekend there for an ORPA LR match, and then Long Range week during nationals. I've never had access to a "practice" 1Kyd range. Only registered events. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:15:17 PM EDT
[#36]
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There is nothing more satisfying and frustrating at the same time than shooting an AR out to 1K yds... http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/1ktargetup.jpg Do you typically have access to that sort of range? If so, I'm jealous. It's a multi-hour drive for me if I want to push past 550 meters. That's Viale Range at Camp Perry. I get one weekend there for an ORPA LR match, and then Long Range week during nationals. I've never had access to a "practice" 1Kyd range. Only registered events. Most 1K ranges seem to be that way... I only know of one that is consistently available for practice, and it's a four hour drive from me. Fun, though. TR85. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:16:50 PM EDT
[#37]
I can hit steel on the first shot.
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:18:34 PM EDT
[#38]
I got lectured on the range while I was in the Corps for putting rounds through the head on the B-mod at 500 yards. Got about half of my 10 rounds through the silhouette's face before the coach told me to quit it and just go center mass. Conditions were pretty much perfect––very little wind and a nice, clear day. Shooting from prone position with loop sling, iron sights. Not too hard when conditions are good if you stick to the basics.
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:21:05 PM EDT
[#39]
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It took me 3 shots to hit a prairie dog at 497, in what I estimated to be 18mph wind. Only the first wouldn't have hit a man sized target. Of course this was from a rest. I'm dubious of my ability to hit a man sized target at that range in anything but prone supported with a sling, or from a rest. I've found about 450-500-ish to be the reach of a 5.56 with any reliability on PDs . Beyond that and you'll usually have a near miss that makes him duck before you can get a solid hit. With .308, 700+ is doable, the hardest part is finding the little guy in the optic, and that's using a Nightforce that I can see the rings of Saturn with. I would agree with that. I need 10x for 500 yards, I think I would need 16x or better for 700. Haven't had a shot that far yet for a PD. ETA: This is talking 8" to 12" prairie dogs. Deer silhouettes at 700 are not really a problem, even with the 5.56. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:21:34 PM EDT
[#40]
For me, benched up and target shooting it's pretty easy.
Out in the field with hunting conditions - I wouldn't even try because I know I couldn't do it...... |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:26:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Glock 19 at 200 yards is tons of fun. Prone supported of course.
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:36:07 PM EDT
[#42]
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Glock 19 at 200 yards is tons of fun. Prone supported of course. You ain't had fun till you've hit a 5 gallon water jug at 300 with a 1911.
TR85. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:44:03 PM EDT
[#43]
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Glock 19 at 200 yards is tons of fun. Prone supported of course. You ain't had fun till you've hit a 5 gallon water jug at 300 with a 1911.
TR85. Both you guys got a long way to go to get to the OP's 500yd mark......
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:44:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: At 300 yards, your typical .223 round is at the mercy of both the wind and gravity. At 500 yards with an AR I'd say that it's challenging. 500 yards with a good .308 bolt gun is doable. However, at 400 yards the .308 also starts dropping like a stone. I don't care what people say, having the skill to be reliably hit a man or game sized target at 500 yards or further takes great skill and practice, and should be considered an a worthy achievement. This is the truth. I bet most of the people here would have a hard time making even a 3rd round hit in anything other than the most ideal conditions. I'll go along with your "most people here (or most anywhere)" assertion, but I disagree completely with the idea that hits at 500 yards on stationary man-sized targets are any kind of achievement. A rough familiarity with external ballistics and application of the fundamentals of marksmanship will do the trick just fine. At 400 meters you can generally still get by with favors and holds for windage without having to resort to math. I won't even touch on the technical aspects mentioned above, except to say that I shoot 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm to 1000 yards and beyond (and everywhere in between) quite regularly with excellent results and so do most of the people I run with. Boutique calibers only grow your margin for error. They don't make new possibilities a reality. brilliance in the basics - goes for shooting as well...... I can take a guy who's never shot past 50 yards and, if they understand the basics of shooting have them hitting at 500 in under a magazine...... and, someone else said it also, people make for big targets if they're not moving
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Posted: 10/26/2011 4:23:36 AM EDT
[#45]
First time I had ever shot at 600 yards... with 5 shots. Minimal wind, but I got the elevation down pat. Wish I could go more. 
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Posted: 10/26/2011 4:25:46 AM EDT
[#46]
For me it's hard because I haven't practiced at those distances much at all.
But alot of guys can do that fairly easily from what I have seen and read over the years. |
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Posted: 10/26/2011 4:47:22 AM EDT
[#47]
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Another thing. You guys that have never shot past 200 yards don't have to just sit around wondering what the deal is. Take your .22LR rifle (you do have one, don't you?), and shoot it at 100 yards. With subsonics, there's about 4-5" of drop on a .22LR at 100 from a 50 yard zero. You go out to 150 yards, and we're talking around 15" of drop. Take a 1/3 scale target and shoot it with a .22LR at 125-150 yards. That's about the same difficulty as hitting a man at 500 with a service rifle. meh.... i routinely shoot empty shogun shells at about 100-115 with my 10/22. not that hard to do IF you know how to shoot. calculating bullet drop is nothing but mathematics. reading the wind is a bit harder. i used to pretty easily hit 10" plates at 300 off hand with a 308. beyond that it got tough but not impossible. given the time to strap in take my time 500 is certainly doable with a decent rifle. granted my eyes are not near what they used to be but i am confident i could pull it off most of the time. for an inexperienced shooter... yes it can be a challenge. |
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Posted: 10/26/2011 4:56:40 AM EDT
[#48]
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There is nothing more satisfying and frustrating at the same time than shooting an AR out to 1K yds... http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/1ktargetup.jpg past about 500 seems to be my wall. it really begins to take skill to reach out further than than. |
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Posted: 10/26/2011 5:16:04 AM EDT
[#49]
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Wow, I don't know what ranges you all shoot at but here at my range most guys can't hit shit past 200 yards. I shoot CMP matches and 200 yards with a service rifle is a challenge but not hard with good practice. 500 yards off a bench or prone maybe on a good day with no wind. 500 yards with a properly set-up gun with an optic yes, people who say they can get consistent hits at 300 plus yards offhand with a service rifle are full of shit. I can get consistent hits, prone with a sling, at 400 yards, with a 70 year old Enfield Mk4 and you don't think there are people who can do it with a modern service rifle? We're all full of shit?
I saw a whole line of shooters do just that, but what is see most of all are guys who can't hit at 200 yards and guys online who tell great BS stories of their long range accuracy. I shoot every week without fail I see hundreds of shooters a year. Shooting out past 200 yards takes skill and practice with proper trigger controll. How hard is it to hit at 500 very for 99% of shooters. We should stop putting crap of how easy it is in new shooters heads so when they go out and try they have realistic expectations. Oh I forgot I am on AR15.com not the CMP forum. |
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Posted: 10/26/2011 5:22:12 AM EDT
[#50]
I do it with my eyes closed...
That way I improve my chances.
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