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Posted: 5/13/2017 12:52:02 AM EDT
[#1]
It really depends what you mean by safe. No radiation? never. The stuff was radioactive to some degree when it was mined out of the ground. Safe enough to work around with out high does rates (except for maybe the fuel itself)? Probably about another 120 years. Caesium-137 is one of the biggest contributors to gamma dose. It's half life is 30.05 years. After 5 or so half lives, most of it is gone. The quantities we are dealing with though, probably mean to add a few extra.
The thing to understand is time, distance , and shielding is what reduces dose. That's why they built the new shelter 300m away and rolled it in place. It's designed to help disassemble the plant. I think the issue is going to be keeping up sufficient international funding. Frankly, Russia should pay for the whole fucking thing, but that ain't going to happen. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 12:53:33 AM EDT
[#2]
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This. There are areas in the restricted zone that are already at safe levels. Now, if the question is about what's left of the reactor, about 100,000 years or more, depending on what's in there. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 12:53:40 AM EDT
[#3]
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Claymores and a good sniping position...... |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 1:00:20 AM EDT
[#4]
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I was at a concrete convention and there was a speaker who was in Russia to see the sarcophagus being built. He had some great stories and history. The Russians claim only 29 or so people have died as a result of the melt down. 
The sarcophagus was the largest thing moved by hydraulics. It also has large blast walls in case of a missile attack. It is basically an inner and outer layer of stainless steal sheet metal with a massive dehumidifier between the two, all held up by fancy steal beams on hinges. There's a thingymabobber inside that can work on breaking down the old building and removing shit to be stored elsewhere. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 1:01:26 AM EDT
[#5]
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See if you can't chip off a piece so that I can put it on my keychain. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Uhhh, are you talking inside the melted core or outside? After the meltdown the rest of the reactors still ran, crewed by real people. People are in the exclusion zone now... I would do it in the proper protective equipment. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 1:01:51 AM EDT
[#6]
There is a pretty good youtube series on it. Done by exploring with josh or something like that. The picture posted earlier by the statue before the shield was moved into place. The levels were much higher next to the statue about 35 mSv I think, when they moved the counter behind the statue they dropped down to 1 mSv. I'm not sure how their counter was calibrated so I may be wrong on the measurement.
A lot of josh's videos are silly, this series was pretty good. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 2:31:13 AM EDT
[#7]
8700 years
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Posted: 5/13/2017 3:00:26 AM EDT
[#8]
Why, in this day and age, do otherwise intelligent people use such quaint and incorrect terms like geiger counter? Is it the new "cool to sound stupid" thing?
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Posted: 5/13/2017 3:20:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Dinosaurs might be back by then
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Posted: 5/13/2017 3:25:46 AM EDT
[#10]
I think Fukishima is a more pressing concern.
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Posted: 5/13/2017 4:45:45 AM EDT
[#11]
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I think Fukishima is a more pressing concern. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 4:51:35 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 5/13/2017 4:52:44 AM EDT
[#13]
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You can now stand next to the elephants foot for a minute or so without lasting effect Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Uhhh, are you talking inside the melted core or outside? After the meltdown the rest of the reactors still ran, crewed by real people. People are in the exclusion zone now... All 10 minutes of it |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 4:58:45 AM EDT
[#14]
I just watched the special about how they covered it. They said in its current for, 20,000 years
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Posted: 5/13/2017 5:55:35 AM EDT
[#15]
It's on my bucket list of places to visit
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Posted: 5/13/2017 6:12:21 AM EDT
[#16]
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Inside the containment is bad, but right outside is fine: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/142217/IMG-0138-207274.JPG Even safer now: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/142217/5ECC2A86-1BEC-429B-A63A-225A37E932A4-207275.JPG Did a Pripyat / exclusion zone tour many years back, before the iPhone era and thus I have very few photos. Need to get back out there. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 7:02:34 AM EDT
[#17]
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amazing how dangerous that blob is Quote HistoryQuoted:
amazing how dangerous that blob is |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 7:08:24 AM EDT
[#18]
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So far, I have not been allowed inside of the building. Maybe this year. I would do it in the proper protective equipment. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 7:10:28 AM EDT
[#19]
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Sneak some spray paint in and tag the foot. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 7:39:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why, in this day and age, do otherwise intelligent people use such quaint and incorrect terms like geiger counter? Is it the new "cool to sound stupid" thing? |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 7:53:21 AM EDT
[#21]
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Kilroy was he-------- |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 8:10:08 AM EDT
[#22]
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Would be pretty awesome. You know they aren't going to clean it off, so everytime they photograph it, there's a big cock sprayed on it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kilroy was he-------- 
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Posted: 5/13/2017 8:20:04 AM EDT
[#23]
I understand land can be purchased pretty cheap around Chernobyl. Don't be taken in, make sure you get the mineral rights with it.
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Posted: 5/13/2017 8:31:38 AM EDT
[#24]
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Well? The Corium (molten reactor core or LFCM) of the elephant's foot is going to remain radioactive for an anticipated 100,000 years, so within the reactor sarcophagus the timescales are significant. Outside the sarcophagus some areas are already within safe limits, other are safe to approach with very limited exposure times. The risk is that within that time the Corium is still flowing and generating heat. If it were to reach groundwater the resulting explosion could cause another catastrophic release. This of course doesn't take into account improvements in technology which would allow Corium to be dealt with. However, it also means that for such a significant timescale this represents a very long term risk management problem. Similar to what is faced by all radioactive wastes. Issues around maintaining security and containment are the primary area of concern; How many wars are going to take place in that 100,000 year period? How will language change in that 100,000 year period? How could those with nefarious intentions exploit the deadly nature of the Corium, and other radioactive wastes with a long half-life, to the detriment of others in that 100,000 year period? How much erosion, how many earthquakes, how will geology, groundwater, and climate affect the containment with that 100,000 war period? It's not just a case of burying it under millions of tonnes of concrete and hoping for the best. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 8:39:17 AM EDT
[#25]
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Interesting documentary here. "Radioactive Wolves," about the animals that live in the area. Some old people still live and farm root crops in the area. Small fragments from the explosion are still waiting to be collected. The roads and other elevated places that are rinsed by rain water have low exposure levels. Low areas that collect all the water transported contaminants are still quite hot. Hogs eating in the low areas are highly exposed. All of the forest droppings that usually decay into soil are still crisp and intact. Decades' worth, piled up. The bugs and bacteria that break them down seem to be absent. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 8:58:13 AM EDT
[#26]
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Okay. You first. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Uhhh, are you talking inside the melted core or outside? After the meltdown the rest of the reactors still ran, crewed by real people. People are in the exclusion zone now... I think I'll pass on that one. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 8:59:55 AM EDT
[#27]
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According to what I have read...30 seconds exposure to the "elephant's foot" is lethal. Death will take a 2 to 4 weeks. 300 seconds (5 min) you are dead in two days. I think I'll pass on that one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Uhhh, are you talking inside the melted core or outside? After the meltdown the rest of the reactors still ran, crewed by real people. People are in the exclusion zone now... I think I'll pass on that one. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 9:00:26 AM EDT
[#28]
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depends what area. they are building a large building to cover it 300m away. the closer you get the more certain ray will pass through your body. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 9:14:07 AM EDT
[#29]
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Those numbers are changing all of the time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Uhhh, are you talking inside the melted core or outside? After the meltdown the rest of the reactors still ran, crewed by real people. People are in the exclusion zone now... I think I'll pass on that one. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 9:23:34 AM EDT
[#30]
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They don't change enough to make a bit of difference to me. I wouldn't spend 1 second near that thing! Nope, Nope, Nope... |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 10:53:56 AM EDT
[#31]
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Exactly. It produces dust from the process. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What is most interesting is what it has been doing over time. It actually kind of respirates the way it absorbs and releases moisture. The density and structural quality actually changes. It has become more porous since it actually formed, and has in some ways become more dangerous, but not necessarily in the sense of its radioactive quality. It produces dust from the process. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 10:57:57 AM EDT
[#32]
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So far, I have not been allowed inside of the building. Maybe this year. I would do it in the proper protective equipment. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 11:02:58 AM EDT
[#33]
Safe levels, or "Combloc Safe" levels?
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Posted: 5/13/2017 11:07:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Safe levels, or "Combloc Safe" levels? |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 11:11:02 AM EDT
[#35]
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Safe, as in I can go sit on the Elephant's Foot and eat a baloney sandwich and chips for lunch and not have to worry about any future offspring being born with three heads or superpowers. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 11:14:53 AM EDT
[#36]
Millions of years.
Plutonium 239 has a half-life of 24,100 years. For U-235 it's 710 million years. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 11:16:52 AM EDT
[#37]
We are ALL constantly living in and around radiation. Anti-nukers think only power plants and x-ray machines create radiation. But radiation is all over and we're all constantly exposed to naturally created radiation.
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Posted: 5/13/2017 11:19:41 AM EDT
[#38]
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I just watched the special about how they covered it. They said in its current for, 20,000 years |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 11:25:19 AM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 5/13/2017 11:31:20 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Corium (molten reactor core or LFCM) of the elephant's foot is going to remain radioactive for an anticipated 100,000 years, so within the reactor sarcophagus the timescales are significant. Outside the sarcophagus some areas are already within safe limits, other are safe to approach with very limited exposure times. The risk is that within that time the Corium is still flowing and generating heat. If it were to reach groundwater the resulting explosion could cause another catastrophic release. This of course doesn't take into account improvements in technology which would allow Corium to be dealt with. However, it also means that for such a significant timescale this represents a very long term risk management problem. Similar to what is faced by all radioactive wastes. Issues around maintaining security and containment are the primary area of concern; How many wars are going to take place in that 100,000 year period? How will language change in that 100,000 year period? How could those with nefarious intentions exploit the deadly nature of the Corium, and other radioactive wastes with a long half-life, to the detriment of others in that 100,000 year period? How much erosion, how many earthquakes, how will geology, groundwater, and climate affect the containment with that 100,000 war period? It's not just a case of burying it under millions of tonnes of concrete and hoping for the best. Maybe raise the temp a few degrees above ambient, but the molten phase ended shortly after the meltdown. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 11:38:22 AM EDT
[#41]
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I wonder how long these guys lived? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/416672/The-Elephant-s-Foot-of-the-Chernobyl-disaster--1986--1--207474.JPG |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 12:03:55 PM EDT
[#42]
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Why, in this day and age, do otherwise intelligent people use such quaint and incorrect terms like geiger counter? Is it the new "cool to sound stupid" thing? Others, who simply mock, do not educate. Otherwise they might not have a reason to feel superior. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 12:13:30 PM EDT
[#43]
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I wonder how long these guys lived? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/416672/The-Elephant-s-Foot-of-the-Chernobyl-disaster--1986--1--207474.JPG 
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Posted: 5/13/2017 12:13:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryI am going to ask a dumb question, but what exactly are we looking at in this photo and how did it get there? Melt through the floor above?
Nvm. Wikipedia. The largest known amounts of corium were formed during the Chernobyl disaster.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_(nuclear_reactor)#cite_note-15][15][/url] The molten mass of reactor core dripped under the reactor vessel and now is solidified in forms of stalactites, stalagmites, and lava flows; the best known formation is the "Elephant's Foot," located under the bottom of the reactor in a Steam Distribution Corridor.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_(nuclear_reactor)#cite_note-Lava1-16][16][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_(nuclear_reactor)#cite_note-17][17][/url] The corium was formed in three phases.
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Posted: 5/13/2017 12:38:46 PM EDT
[#45]
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It is. Complete silence unless you are speaking. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/142217/IMG-1846-207278.JPG 
edit- My dad laughed the first time that biker chick was showing her geiger counter there. (He was in the Airforce with radio equipment) |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 12:41:12 PM EDT
[#46]
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Millions of years. Plutonium 239 has a half-life of 24,100 years. For U-235 it's 710 million years. Which is why it has an extremely long half-life. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 12:41:50 PM EDT
[#47]
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I wonder how long these guys lived? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/416672/The-Elephant-s-Foot-of-the-Chernobyl-disaster--1986--1--207474.JPG
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Posted: 5/13/2017 12:46:49 PM EDT
[#48]
The area was pretty dang hot when I went through it in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Lots of mutated animals and what not too...
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Posted: 5/13/2017 12:49:58 PM EDT
[#49]
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U-235 is not all that radioactive. Which is why it has an extremely long half-life. As long as you don't swollow or inhale either you could walk around with a pound of each in your pocket for a decade and be fine. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 12:52:14 PM EDT
[#50]
 Our Stories: "Fallout Man" with Tony Brooks - 2017 SILVER TELLY AWARD WINNER This is an acquaintance of mine. He is an expert in the field and even retirement is often invited to speak to groups around the world. He started his research and subsequent career over fears about radiation and eventually became a strong proponent of nuclear power. He has worked/consulted at Chernobyl and has some pretty interesting things to say about the place, mostly about how overblown the dangers have been. Same with Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Three Mile Island, Fukushima, etc. |
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