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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:29:42 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Them competition guns always had me cracking up. Shotguns with 20rd single stack box mags dangling down to the shooters' ankles. Gear purpose built for winning that one specific competition but would be way too cumbersome or impractical to deal with in any other situation. Seems to me like they are trying to stop that sort of goofy shit. Its just hard to put that into words. Those tarded looking competition-only settups and accessories are like porn. Hard to define in words but everybody knows them when they see them. That makes it that much more satisfying to stomp people shooting open. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:32:59 AM EDT
[#2]
I haven't shot IDPA in a long time. It was fun until it wasn't. The rules got to be a bit much. Zero issues with keeping it more practical and less gamey, but it was ridiculous. I showed up to one about 6 years ago accidentally. Our club calendar showed it as an outlaw 2 gun match. I love outlaw matches, follow the four rules and have fun is more my speed. Well it wasn't, it was IDPA. They offered to let me shoot for free. Sure why not, even if it had been 15 years since I shot an IDPA match. The rules and their autistic screeching about various rule violations had not changed. I left halfway through. I'll pass. Maybe it was that match? I didn't shoot at this club back when I did.
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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:38:04 AM EDT
[#3]
Honest question: So are carry size 2011s with dots allowed? That's what I EDC. I even carried it at the Mall of America last week.
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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:38:20 AM EDT
[#4]
I don't really understand IDPA. I'm all for a more practical, shoot from concealment type sport but IDPA needs to figure their shit out. Their rules are far too arbitrary.
IDPA is where the "lifelong never going to make it out of B class, occasionally shoot USPSA" guys around here go to hide. Only time good USPSA guys here shoot IDPA matches is when they feel like absolutely dunking on everyone. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:38:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Certain match shooters have pushed things into NASCAR territory. Your either a loser or a cheater. Some might defend that position saying it's human nature. One way to completely avoid this is requiring everybody utilize identical equipment. No exceptions.
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Posted: 1/17/2023 9:13:08 AM EDT
[#6]
I got my start in competitive shooting in IDPA but pretty much gave it up once I learned about USPSA and 3gun. I think it's OK to have boomer/fudd divisions and rules, but I also think it's OK to let race guns play in a reasonable way. I used to CC a revolver or single stack 1911, but now my 365xl has an after market frame, light, dot, etc. All those things let me shoot it better/faster than I did with it stock, and be more useful in more situations. gamer guns paved the way for dots on carry guns.
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Posted: 1/17/2023 9:13:16 AM EDT
[#7]
It is always hillarious to see guys bringing in their competition setups to small self-defense classes. All because they want to beat the out of shape middle-aged office worker who just wants to practice more than static shooting once a month.
Those same non-competition guys still end up shooting better than the local police. Only LEO who has done better was SWAT, but he was using his comperitition gear 
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Posted: 1/17/2023 9:20:43 AM EDT
[#8]
So are the shoot me first vests not allowed now?
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Posted: 1/17/2023 9:23:00 AM EDT
[#9]
I always hought running it with race guns was kind of lame and anyone can say what they want but it isnt in the spirit of what it was meant to be. However, there are plenty other rules that are stupid.
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:01:06 AM EDT
[#10]
I wear 5.11 pants, untucked LAPG, 5.11, or Columbia button down shirts, Merrells, Oakleys, etc, every day.
No one notices my OWB Glock under my shirt, even if I'm horribly printing. Usually the 43X, but even the 17. They only notice if I reach up high and the shirt rides up enough that they can see the holster and grip. Kharn |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:04:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wear 5.11 pants, untucked LAPG, 5.11, or Columbia button down shirts, Merrells, Oakleys, etc, every day. No one notices my OWB Glock under my shirt, even if I'm horribly printing. Usually the 43X, but even the 17. They only notice if I reach up high and the shirt rides up enough that they can see the holster and grip. Kharn I don’t think this is to stop that kind of pistol. It’s to stop race guns with magnet “holsters” that no one wears out and about. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:06:32 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I actually saw the fishing vest wearing guy in the wild once at a movie theater I used to work with a guy that wore a fishing vest every day. He had been overseas for years and had gotten used to all his shit being on his armor vs in his pants pockets. So he just started keeping all his crap in a vest and just throwing it on when he left the house. He didn't have any interest in an MD permit or any guns beyond the one revolver he kept on his nightstand. Kharn |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:18:20 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have to admit I hate how every genre of competitive practical shooting starts out "honest" with folks shooting what they would actually use for you know "practical shooting", but then it always devolves into gamer bullshit. Thats why I stepped back not long after IPSC became a thing when 'race guns' with ridiculous experimental brakes became the norm. It had nothing to do with realistic defensive shooting as Jeff Cooper envisioned. Then, along with the whatever it took to gain an advantage came the petty politics and resentment by middle-age fat guys towards any outsider that could shoot. Worse than tournament bass fishermen. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:22:53 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t think this is to stop that kind of pistol. It’s to stop race guns with magnet “holsters” that no one wears out and about. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wear 5.11 pants, untucked LAPG, 5.11, or Columbia button down shirts, Merrells, Oakleys, etc, every day. No one notices my OWB Glock under my shirt, even if I'm horribly printing. Usually the 43X, but even the 17. They only notice if I reach up high and the shirt rides up enough that they can see the holster and grip. Kharn I don’t think this is to stop that kind of pistol. It’s to stop race guns with magnet “holsters” that no one wears out and about. What if you live in an open carry state and your EDC is a race gun? I don't shoot IDPA, so I don't have a dog in the fight but the rule is extremely subjective. It seems like there would be an easier way to keep with the spirit of IDPA without making the rules so subjective. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:24:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Still no appendix though?
I stopped shooting IDPA mostly because I carry appendix |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:27:27 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if you live in an open carry state and your EDC is a race gun? I don't shoot IDPA, so I don't have a dog in the fight but the rule is extremely subjective. It seems like there would be an easier way to keep with the spirit of IDPA without making the rules so subjective. Really? I mean really? Then I guess you and the one other person in the country that does that are just shit out of luck. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:32:25 AM EDT
[#17]
pretty clear that some of you replying to this thread have no clue what the differences between USPSA and IDPA are
there is no open division IDPA ….no different from any other ARFCOM thread ARFCOM GD,where video gamers can tell actual F-15 pilots who to fly an F-15 
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:34:03 AM EDT
[#18]
Using gamer gear for IDPA will most likely get you........
Killed in da streets. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:34:29 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still no appendix though? I stopped shooting IDPA mostly because I carry appendix Mickey Fowler shot from cross draw and Jerry 'The Burner' Barnhart shot from appendix. Yeah, I'm old. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:34:40 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if you live in an open carry state and your EDC is a race gun? I don't shoot IDPA, so I don't have a dog in the fight but the rule is extremely subjective. It seems like there would be an easier way to keep with the spirit of IDPA without making the rules so subjective. Quote HistoryQuoted: What if you live in an open carry state and your EDC is a race gun? I don't shoot IDPA, so I don't have a dog in the fight but the rule is extremely subjective. It seems like there would be an easier way to keep with the spirit of IDPA without making the rules so subjective. Yes, it does seem like there would be an easier way, but when you have people that will do this: (for a freaking IDPA match) Quoted: Say there’s a 45oz weight limit? I’ll build a 44.9oz gun (which I did). That’s not cheating but people will bitch and moan about “spirit and intent”. Then yeah, you wind up with subjective rules. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:39:58 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: pretty clear that some of you replying to this thread have no clue what the differences between USPSA and IDPA are there is no open division IDPA ….no different from any other ARFCOM thread ARFCOM GD,where video gamers can tell actual F-15 pilots who to fly an F-15 Please quote the person who claimed there's an open division in IDPA. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:43:24 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? I mean really? Then I guess you and the one other person in the country that does that are just shit out of luck. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What if you live in an open carry state and your EDC is a race gun? I don't shoot IDPA, so I don't have a dog in the fight but the rule is extremely subjective. It seems like there would be an easier way to keep with the spirit of IDPA without making the rules so subjective. Really? I mean really? Then I guess you and the one other person in the country that does that are just shit out of luck. I don't carry a race gun. Part of the problem, is even a "race gun" is subjective....I'm sure there are people out there that consider anything beyond a stock G19 a race gun. But leaving the rule so subjective as, "would you carry this in a mall", just opens that door. There are always going to be super competitive people who will push as close to the line as possible but if they are within the rules, I don't see the problem. If IDPA feels like they the line is too far, they should pull it in but not leave it so subjective IMO. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:43:41 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Using gamer gear for IDPA will most likely get you........ Killed in da streets. That's the funny part, if you're actually competing, you're much better than 98% of gun owners already. If a sport is setup in a way that can be taken advantage of you're a fool if you don't take that advantage, of course only applies if you want to win. If you just want to compete and better yourself why care what everyone else is doing? |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:44:26 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't carry a race gun. Part of the problem, is even a "race gun" is subjective....I'm sure there are people out there that consider anything beyond a stock G19 a race gun. But leaving the rule so subjective as, "would you carry this in a mall", just opens that door. There are always going to be super competitive people who will push as close to the line as possible but if they are within the rules, I don't see the problem. If IDPA feels like they the line is too far, they should pull it in but not leave it so subjective IMO. Lots of people in IDPA would probably think a $400 Shadow Systems is a race gun lol. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:45:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have to admit I hate how every genre of competitive practical shooting starts out "honest" with folks shooting what they would actually use for you know "practical shooting", but then it always devolves into gamer bullshit. Karate competitions:  Attached FileVersus say this karate practitioner:  Attached FileThat said….. Q. What do these games get people to do with their guns? A. Learn the manual of arms and apply marksmanship ….quickly…. A bad day at the range beats my best day ever at work. The only thing better than being at the range would be flying (even little Cessnas) or jumping out if planes (even little Cessnas). |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:45:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, it does seem like there would be an easier way, but when you have people that will do this: (for a freaking IDPA match) Then yeah, you wind up with subjective rules. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What if you live in an open carry state and your EDC is a race gun? I don't shoot IDPA, so I don't have a dog in the fight but the rule is extremely subjective. It seems like there would be an easier way to keep with the spirit of IDPA without making the rules so subjective. Yes, it does seem like there would be an easier way, but when you have people that will do this: (for a freaking IDPA match) Quoted: Say there’s a 45oz weight limit? I’ll build a 44.9oz gun (which I did). That’s not cheating but people will bitch and moan about “spirit and intent”. Then yeah, you wind up with subjective rules. I don't see the problem, a gun was built to be within the existing rule set, if IDPA thought 44.9oz guns were the problem they should have lowered the weight. Having an extremely subjective rule is going to make this worse not better...IMO. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:48:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't see the problem, a gun was built to be within the existing rule set, if IDPA thought 44.9oz guns were the problem they should have lowered the weight. Having an extremely subjective rule is going to make this worse not better...IMO. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What if you live in an open carry state and your EDC is a race gun? I don't shoot IDPA, so I don't have a dog in the fight but the rule is extremely subjective. It seems like there would be an easier way to keep with the spirit of IDPA without making the rules so subjective. Yes, it does seem like there would be an easier way, but when you have people that will do this: (for a freaking IDPA match) Quoted: Say there’s a 45oz weight limit? I’ll build a 44.9oz gun (which I did). That’s not cheating but people will bitch and moan about “spirit and intent”. Then yeah, you wind up with subjective rules. I don't see the problem, a gun was built to be within the existing rule set, if IDPA thought 44.9oz guns were the problem they should have lowered the weight. Having an extremely subjective rule is going to make this worse not better...IMO. Fair enough. I, and the directors of the OP areas IDPA see it differently. Nobody will be dragging him from his house to their range. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:49:58 AM EDT
[#28]
I’ve tried out all the big gun games. I look
At them as a fun way to get some training in on a more dynamic range. I don’t care about winning or strategizing different gear or divisions. I own no race guns. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:51:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're shooting your EDC, why not sign up for production division instead of open division ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Me and a couple buds shot our daily carry guns at a USPSA style league match one time. If your goal is to test yourself or get better with your EDC, who cares if a dude with an open gun gets first place in a match? If you're shooting your EDC, why not sign up for production division instead of open division ? Because the EDC doesn’t meet the production rules? |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:51:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Going back a decade and half ago, I used to work at a gunshop/indoor range that used to host IDPA shoots twice a month. Had to open early for them, but checking everyone in for them was always a headache. Literally a bunch of boomers coming in in "shoot me first vests" complaining about the fee (that hasnt changed since the shop opened) and having to complete the liability waiver again (literally just a signature/date). A IDPA match was the first time I ever used a tourniquet. This is the reason why I am not sure whether I want to try IDPA. On one hand I am gonna be running boomer gear (1911 from an OWB leather holster) but on the other I don’t want to be surrounded by live memes |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:52:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They should have done away with capacity limits. You want to shoot a 1911, go ahead. Nobody else should have to artificially cap their mags to make it fair. It won’t be on the street so why set a false standard? Life's too short to read rule books. It's why I've never joined a club that would admit me. Back when IDPA first started up I had a discussion on usenet groups w/Bill Wilson about the mag limits when I had a brand new box stock G21 w/13 rd mags. I basically got hammered that 10 rds was the limit find something else to shoot. I took it as BW wanted a place people who bought his 1911 45's could shoot with dealing with the race gun crowd. I just went on shooting the local I Play at Shooting Cardboard matches with my OWB holster and mag carriers with the G21. I was only an average high C low B shooter anyway and there usually weren't enough shooters to split up into multiple classes. I don't get into the whole "game" aspect of it, I am down to just matches that I enjoy shooting and don't really concern myself with where I end up class/finish wise. Hell I was shooting 3 gun with the old 1100 and a S&W MP15 just to try it. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:54:02 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fair enough. I, and the directors of the OP areas IDPA see it differently. Nobody will be dragging him from his house to their range. 
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:55:57 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Certain match shooters have pushed things into NASCAR territory. Your either a loser or a cheater. Some might defend that position saying it's human nature. One way to completely avoid this is requiring everybody utilize identical equipment. No exceptions. Define cheating. I only ask because IDPA has a tendency to call actions/gear/etc. “cheating” when it’s perfectly legal but someone thinks it’s too fast or to “gamey”, whatever that is. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:57:55 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, it does seem like there would be an easier way, but when you have people that will do this: (for a freaking IDPA match) Then yeah, you wind up with subjective rules. You’re either legal and working inside the rules or you’re not. Are there any other competitive venues where the attitude is, “yeah… it’s legal but too close to the line so no, you can’t do that.” That’s silly. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 10:58:05 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Define cheating. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Certain match shooters have pushed things into NASCAR territory. Your either a loser or a cheater. Some might defend that position saying it's human nature. One way to completely avoid this is requiring everybody utilize identical equipment. No exceptions. Define cheating. Best guess: Anything within the rule set that I can't afford. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:02:53 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re either legal and working inside the rules or you’re not. Are there any other competitive venues where the attitude is, “yeah… it’s legal but too close to the line so no, you can’t do that.” That’s silly. Congratulations, you've outsmarted and outworked them to the point that they have created subjective rules. There are a number of other competitive venues ready to take your admission fee. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:04:45 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Congratulations, you've outsmarted and outworked them to the point that they have created subjective rules. There are a number of other competitive venues ready to take your admission fee. The match director has entered the chat. 
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:07:55 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Congratulations, you've outsmarted and outworked them to the point that they have created subjective rules. There are a number of other competitive venues ready to take your admission fee. I haven’t. I very rarely shoot IDPA because of the goofy rules. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:09:31 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Best guess: Anything within the rule set that I can't afford. Pretty much. The last IDPA Major I shot I had to have that discussion with the RO and MD about this. Yeah, what I did was legal but “that’s not what we wanted people to do.” Tough shit, I still won. ??????? |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:10:58 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Congratulations, you've outsmarted and outworked them to the point that they have created subjective rules. There are a number of other competitive venues ready to take your admission fee. Now do a gun law like say pistol braces. “Yeah, it’s legal but we don’t like it.” |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:14:21 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty much. The last IDPA Major I shot I had to have that discussion with the RO and MD about this. Yeah, what I did was legal but “that’s not what we wanted people to do.” Tough shit, I still won. ??????? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Best guess: Anything within the rule set that I can't afford. Pretty much. The last IDPA Major I shot I had to have that discussion with the RO and MD about this. Yeah, what I did was legal but “that’s not what we wanted people to do.” Tough shit, I still won. ??????? The question is how many other top competitors saw what you did then did it themselves? That really gets them going lol. In 3-Gun its always the one guy that we try to plan a stage around, he still gets us occasionally but that's all part of the fun. Life's too short to get that worked up over gun games. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:17:44 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The question is how many other top competitors saw what you did then did it themselves? That really gets them going lol. In 3-Gun its always the one guy that we try to plan a stage around, he still gets us occasionally but that's all part of the fun. Life's too short to get that worked up over gun games. Right? It’s almost like it’s a game and supposed to be fun or something. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:20:08 AM EDT
[#43]
I agree, the subjectiveness is bad. I don't carry spare mags on my belt, so I just bought whatever OWB mag carrier for IDPA and 3 gun. I always just wore a t-shirt, weather permitting. The mags printed under the t-shirt, which is probably the type of thing this rule is directed at.
Just more equipment requirements and people arguing over rules, not going to help with getting new people into the sport and keeping them around. I haven't been to a match in a few years, but my club was pretty laid back. They usually said cover garments were optional due to heat. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:23:07 AM EDT
[#44]
Everyone bitching in here is probably just slow as fuck.
It ain't the fucking gun, belt or mag pouches that make a good shooter. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:24:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone bitching in here is probably just slow as fuck. It ain't the fucking gun, belt or mag pouches that make a good shooter. Exactly. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:26:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have to admit I hate how every genre of competitive practical shooting starts out "honest" with folks shooting what they would actually use for you know "practical shooting", but then it always devolves into gamer bullshit. This is absolutely the truth. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:28:18 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone bitching in here is probably just slow as fuck. It ain't the fucking gun, belt or mag pouches that make a good shooter. 
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:28:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: The new rule book which dropped today makes it far too easy. New standards for what's legal include, "What would people at the mall think about that?" And "DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT USING COMPETITION ORIENTED GEAR IN THE COMPETITION YOU'RE GOING TO". Having a rule set this subjective is going to be unintentionally hilarious in the extreme. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/241349/A69A6C6F-7630-4D10-9330-EAF6C851F337_jpe-2674952.JPG |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:34:46 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honestly I don't remember what division we were put in. The point lm (trying) to make is that succeeding in your goals doesn't always mean winning the match. If you just want to test your skills with your edc, what other people are shooting is irrelevant. There are times I've shot matches that I knew was beyond my skill set and my goal was just not embarrassing myself. Even though I didn't win, at least I was successful in the goal I set. If you want to win, that's cool too, get in the race and win. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Me and a couple buds shot our daily carry guns at a USPSA style league match one time. If your goal is to test yourself or get better with your EDC, who cares if a dude with an open gun gets first place in a match? If you're shooting your EDC, why not sign up for production division instead of open division ? Honestly I don't remember what division we were put in. The point lm (trying) to make is that succeeding in your goals doesn't always mean winning the match. If you just want to test your skills with your edc, what other people are shooting is irrelevant. There are times I've shot matches that I knew was beyond my skill set and my goal was just not embarrassing myself. Even though I didn't win, at least I was successful in the goal I set. If you want to win, that's cool too, get in the race and win. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:40:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Best guess: Anything within the rule set that I can't afford. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Certain match shooters have pushed things into NASCAR territory. Your either a loser or a cheater. Some might defend that position saying it's human nature. One way to completely avoid this is requiring everybody utilize identical equipment. No exceptions. Define cheating. Best guess: Anything within the rule set that I can't afford. Absolutely, there is supposed to be a low barrier to entry - both financially and otherwise. Every once in a while, someone purpose builds a gun (again, for a freaking IDPA match) in complete contradiction to the intent so that they can club some seals. Now, how this is handled will be far more subjective. Sorry about that; but again, no one will be dragging anyone from their house to the range. |
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