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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:25:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is being a Nationalist any different than being pro-US Government? Is the government America ? Or are the people and the land the nation ? |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:26:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Says the guy haranguing everyone here about the “correct” meaning of nationalist . And by correct I mean the lefts version. 
I’ll happily use Americanism from now on if it stops the college professor lecturing about how racist everyone is . |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:26:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain yours then. How is nationalism not patriotic? |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:27:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They love Mexico. 
Someone needs to tell that to the hundreds of thousands of Hispanics who have served. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:27:53 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is the "correct" use of the term. Just because you don't like it doesn't negate that fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Says the guy haranguing everyone here about the “correct” meaning of nationalist . And by correct I mean the lefts version.
I’ll happily use Americanism from now on if it stops the college professor lecturing about how racist everyone is . |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:27:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
. Patriotism: devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty Nationalism: devotion and loyalty to one's own country; patriotism Yeah. Totally different. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:27:58 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: American 100%. I was just wondering bc some (not all) nationalists have racist tendencies. Not because they are Nationalists. Racists put their race first. Nationalists put their country first. The confusion is from the media trying to us a broad brush to paint Trump as a racist. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:30:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nationalism = patriotism. -and F*** demo-rats! |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:31:11 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote Historyhttps://dailycaller.com/2014/07/21/merriam-webster-editor-apologizes-for-bigotry-association-to-conservatism-sort-of/ |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:37:00 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you an American or are you one of the Goblinos looking to turn us into Mexico? If you're the former we can be friends. If you're the latter you can get bent. IDGAF what color, heritage, religion, or who you want to fuck...If you value to He Constitution and Liberty and our history and values...you're ok. If you dont...then I view you as an enemy. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:37:44 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Heritage is secondary, national identity is primary. Are you an American? Or do you claim allegiance to another country? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: And we should care because? What's your opinion on people of Hispanic heritage such as I? Just wondering. Are you an American? Or do you claim allegiance to another country? I couldn't give two shits about where you're from. Come here legally and be proud to be an American. Support and defend our constitution. I would describe myself as a patriot rather than a nationalist, but being a nationalist isn't the boogeyman that the media is making it out to be. ZFG about other countries has a time and place. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:40:44 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
American 100%. I was just wondering bc some (not all) nationalists have racist tendencies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Heritage is secondary, national identity is primary. Are you an American? Or do you claim allegiance to another country? |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:41:05 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure if Merriam-Webster is the way to go here..... https://dailycaller.com/2014/07/21/merriam-webster-editor-apologizes-for-bigotry-association-to-conservatism-sort-of/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure if Merriam-Webster is the way to go here..... https://dailycaller.com/2014/07/21/merriam-webster-editor-apologizes-for-bigotry-association-to-conservatism-sort-of/ |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:43:12 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's as poor of an assumption as assuming all American Hispanics are not patriotic. See how that works? |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:49:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the historical definition of nationalism. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: That is the polar opposite of the meaning. Nationalism as a concept puts ones ethnographic-linguistic group above current citizenship. The history of nationalism is a history of people sharing the same concept of an ethnic heritage seeking to break away from a political state which was not led by that same group and/or to unify separate political states which the nationalists believed were rightly part of their same group - thus the modern concept of a “nation-state.” As such, nationalism has always been about race/ethnicity/etc. Fair enough to say I'm a Patriot and leave the "Nationalist" argument alone. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:50:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And we should care because? What's your opinion on people of Hispanic heritage such as I? Just wondering. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
President Trump is as well. I just saw two commie liberals lambast Trump for saying he is a nationalist. Of course they lie and try to associate nationalist with racist, Hitler and puppy killers. My country (USA) is not the oldest on Earth but we are the best. I want Germany to be Germany...not a country over run by muslim invaders. The same goes for other European countries. They have their culture, language, etc that needs to remain uniquely their own. There are many cesspool third world countries. Their citizens need to man up and fix their problems and try to achieve a modicum of MAGA equivalency. Stop invading other countries to ruin them. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:52:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who's definition are we using these days, because they completely change the meaning. Tough to argue when we don't know what we're arguing. Fair enough to say I'm a Patriot and leave the "Nationalist" argument alone. Words have been weaponized by the Left. Nationalism is fine. How the Left has been successful is tying the word nationalism to white supremacy. So now all the sudden being a nationalist is basically the same thing as burning crosses on a Friday night. Until we figure out a way to defeat liberals using words against the Right, they will win. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:52:50 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look up the historical definition or read a book. Do your own work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Explain yours then. How is nationalism not patriotic? Do your own work. /'naSH(?)n??liz?m/ noun identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations. pa·tri·ot·ism /'patre??tiz?m/ noun the quality of being patriotic; devotion to and vigorous support for one's country. pa·tri·ot·ic /?patre'ädik/ adjective having or expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one's country. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:55:17 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pffft, you're just another uneducated rube. I've been assured that the education system has been teaching nationalist=fascist/racist for decades. If you don't agree , you're a newspeak perpetrator. You are allowed to be pro government since the government IS the "real" country. Anything else is racist Key concepts: "promotes the interests of a particular nation" Now, many here are arguing this only means the political state which has jurisdiction over you. However, the second key bit is illustrative. "gaining and maintaining the nation's sovereignty over its homeland" Wait a second. if nationalism meanssupport for the sovereign political entity where you live, how could it make any sense that nationalists seek to "gain and maintain" sovereignty for this same nation? Isn't that already a given? How can a sovereign state gain sovereignty? From what? Thus, inherent to this definition is a meaning of "nation" that is clearly not synonymous with "sovereign political state," but has a deeper meaning based on the espouser's own definition of his "nation," and it can run counter to the political state where he may find himself a subject or citizen. This has always been the case. Pretending otherwise is Humpty Dumpty bullshit. Then again, this is GD. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:59:21 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is America a nation ? Yes? Is the government America ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: How is being a Nationalist any different than being pro-US Government? Is the government America ? Or are the people and the land the nation ? No. America is about FAR more than just a location and who happens to live there. America is also an idea. And that is why I am a Patriot. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 10:59:29 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No it doesn't. Words have meanings. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nationalism = patriotism. Words have meanings. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:00:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The United States was never a “nation state” in the sense of the term’s origin and meaning. However, there was a long history of legally entrenched attitudes that suggested certain ethnic groups and/or races were not welcome. It is impossible to separate that history from the word “nationalism,” especially in light of the era of European nationalism, what it meant, and the attitudes of American “nationalists” of the era. Until some here stop playing Humpty Dumpty games with words, it’s really pretty hard to discuss anything. The term “Americanism” was coined some ways back to celebrate the unique nature of the citizen body of the United States, as one rooted in ideology and not blood. Maybe stick with that. Or, continue to advance one of many ever-popular victim narratives based in Humpty Dumpty word use. Your choice. noun a sovereign state whose citizens or subjects are relatively homogeneous in factors such as language or common descent. If I understand your use, Spain and England hardly count as nation states because they have the Welsh and the Basques to worry about. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:00:41 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
American 100%. I was just wondering bc some (not all) nationalists have racist tendencies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Heritage is secondary, national identity is primary. Are you an American? Or do you claim allegiance to another country? |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:00:53 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No it doesn't. Words have meanings. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:02:32 AM EDT
[#25]
What’s with all these troll 19ers. Making 13ers look ok in comparison.
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:03:17 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: American 100%. I was just wondering bc some (not all) nationalists have racist tendencies. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:04:05 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No it doesn't. Words have meanings. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:04:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes they do, and those definitions are consistently skewed by people with an agenda. nationalism /naSH()nlizm/ noun identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:05:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: American 100%. I was just wondering bc some (not all) nationalists have racist tendencies. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:05:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I understand this quite well. Like I said, there are bad apples everywhere. Plenty of Hispanics think whites are inferior, I have seen this plenty of times. Wonder by what measure they arrive at such an absurd position? |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:06:28 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's take a look at that definition, one which I will say appears to be a good one. Key concepts: "promotes the interests of a particular nation" Now, many here are arguing this only means the political state which has jurisdiction over you. However, the second key bit is illustrative. "gaining and maintaining the nation's sovereignty over its homeland" Wait a second. if nationalism meanssupport for the sovereign political entity where you live, how could it make any sense that nationalists seek to "gain and maintain" sovereignty for this same nation? Isn't that already a given? How can a sovereign state gain sovereignty? From what? Thus, inherent to this definition is a meaning of "nation" that is clearly not synonymous with "sovereign political state," but has a deeper meaning based on the espouser's own definition of his "nation," and it can run counter to the political state where he may find himself a subject or citizen. This has always been the case. Pretending otherwise is Humpty Dumpty bullshit. Then again, this is GD. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Pffft, you're just another uneducated rube. I've been assured that the education system has been teaching nationalist=fascist/racist for decades. If you don't agree , you're a newspeak perpetrator. You are allowed to be pro government since the government IS the "real" country. Anything else is racist Key concepts: "promotes the interests of a particular nation" Now, many here are arguing this only means the political state which has jurisdiction over you. However, the second key bit is illustrative. "gaining and maintaining the nation's sovereignty over its homeland" Wait a second. if nationalism meanssupport for the sovereign political entity where you live, how could it make any sense that nationalists seek to "gain and maintain" sovereignty for this same nation? Isn't that already a given? How can a sovereign state gain sovereignty? From what? Thus, inherent to this definition is a meaning of "nation" that is clearly not synonymous with "sovereign political state," but has a deeper meaning based on the espouser's own definition of his "nation," and it can run counter to the political state where he may find himself a subject or citizen. This has always been the case. Pretending otherwise is Humpty Dumpty bullshit. Then again, this is GD. ...would the Nationalists remain so? If it's just about the land and the people, what difference would it make? In countries where there is strong religious element interwoven into the culture AND the government (Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc), "Nationalism" is always seen being a secular idea. and a threat to those Nations that are ruled by religious powers (such as Iran). Nationalism, on the other hand, is seen as less of a threat to those religious Nations that are also Monarchies. "Patriotism" is clearly a different set of ideas in that context. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:21:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: na·tion-state noun a sovereign state whose citizens or subjects are relatively homogeneous in factors such as language or common descent. If I understand your use, Spain and England hardly count as nation states because they have the Welsh and the Basques to worry about. Not sure if you are truly ignorant about the history of Spain and the UK, or are trying to help make my point in some sarcastic way that went over my head. There isn't any serious Welsh nationalist movement I'm aware of. The Welsh people have pretty much adopted a British identity, and embraced English. England, however, is not Wales. Basque nationalists, contrary to what would be implied by the absurd claims of some here, are not people who are devoted adherents to the government and founding myth of the country of Spain. No, they put their Basque identity first and foremost, and are none to fond of Spain. Spain is a perfect example of a modern nation state based on a nationalist ideology that led to the modern state. However, not all citizens of Spain except the Spanish "nation" the way Madrid and the dominant Castilian-rooted hegemonic culture might prefer. Beside the Basque issue, you have the Catalan nationalists centered around Barcelona, for example. The labeling of one's self as a "nationalist" begs the immediate question, "how do you define your 'nation.'" |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:26:51 AM EDT
[#33]
It's the president's JOB to be a nationalist. That goes for the congress as well. Every single action they take should qualify as nationalistic.
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:30:19 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's the president's JOB to be a nationalist. That goes for the congress as well. Every single domestic action they take should qualify as nationalistic. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:31:32 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So Nationalism is a function of the Government? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's the president's JOB to be a nationalist. That goes for the congress as well. Every single domestic action they take should qualify as nationalistic. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:33:25 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote History |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:34:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Duty. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's the president's JOB to be a nationalist. That goes for the congress as well. Every single domestic action they take should qualify as nationalistic. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:42:32 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Illegal aliens should all go back, but are you against legal immigration as well? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: If you don't care that is not my problem. 30 million or so illegal Mexicans here need to go back to Mexico and fix their country. Wipe out the cartels. Make Mexico the great tourist mecca is can be without the violence of cartel criminals. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:43:12 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look up the historical definition or read a book. Do your own work.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:49:24 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And what principles guide these duties, as they are executed by Nancy Pelosi? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's the president's JOB to be a nationalist. That goes for the congress as well. Every single domestic action they take should qualify as nationalistic. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:52:02 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct according to who ? The very people who've used newspeak for decades to silence anyone not espousing gov doctrine Why the fuck would anyone on this forum want to take the 'mainstream' legitimately? |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 11:57:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What principles? Nationalism has a definition. Her actions are either in the nation's interest or not. Open borders is not. Welfare for illegal aliens is not. Weakening the military (in more ways than just the funding) is not. Constantly threatening your 2A rights is not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's the president's JOB to be a nationalist. That goes for the congress as well. Every single domestic action they take should qualify as nationalistic. If that majority made it National Policy to provide Welfare to illegal aliens, then that THAT TOO would be "in the nation's interests," and a good Nationalist would support his Nation's policies. Erdogan is a Nationalist. Putin is a Nationalist. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 12:10:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then educate the board and explain the difference. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 12:12:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So being a Nationalist simply means being "Pro-America"? The blood and the soil? No. America is about FAR more than just a location and who happens to live there. America is also an idea. And that is why I am a Patriot. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 12:15:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't believe Nationalist even became a "term" for another 100 to 150 years after our Revolution. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So being a Nationalist simply means being "Pro-America"? The blood and the soil? No. America is about FAR more than just a location and who happens to live there. America is also an idea. And that is why I am a Patriot. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 12:16:49 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't need it until then. This stuff is always SO subjective though...….. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 12:19:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If a majority in this Nation amended the Constitution to eliminate the 2nd Amendment, then banning guns would be "in the nation's interests." If that majority made it National Policy to provide Welfare to illegal aliens, then that THAT TOO would be "in the nation's interests," and a good Nationalist would support his Nation's policies. Erdogan is a Nationalist. Putin is a Nationalist. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's the president's JOB to be a nationalist. That goes for the congress as well. Every single domestic action they take should qualify as nationalistic. If that majority made it National Policy to provide Welfare to illegal aliens, then that THAT TOO would be "in the nation's interests," and a good Nationalist would support his Nation's policies. Erdogan is a Nationalist. Putin is a Nationalist. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 12:23:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. Those who oppose them would be nationalists. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 12:36:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you don't care that is not my problem. 30 million or so illegal Mexicans here need to go back to Mexico and fix their country. Wipe out the cartels. Make Mexico the great tourist mecca is can be without the violence of cartel criminals. |
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Posted: 11/5/2019 12:37:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nationalism = patriotism. |
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