Imagining The Unimaginable: What Happens If Ukraine Can’t Beat Russia? - Page 16

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Imagining The Unimaginable: What Happens If Ukraine Can’t Beat Russia? (Page 16 of 66)

Posted: 9/23/2023 3:10:03 PM EDT

[#1]

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Yeah, I know some of you guys are readers of the big thread, no matter the shit you talk.

The last time someone said it was slow in there was two days ago.
You know what I thought?

“The FUCK it is”.
Kinda pissed me off a little.

There’s always information coming out, more than I can possible post. But instead, most people want to read two headlines and figure they’ve got a good bead on it.
Here are some examples from today, that, by the way, have nothing to do with the counteroffensive.

Sevastopol completely unprepared to get hit back

Regional channels in Sevastopol are filled with video cameras of people unable to get into shelters, or with shelters in poor condition.
Now local authorities will clearly take care of this.
It’s high time to focus the efforts of the entire society and government on Victory, and not on depicting the careless reality of peacetime

Two majors
https://t.me/dva_majors/26116

HIMARS still killing it
Taking into account recent events, I propose that the army command still think about creating special forces, whose sole task will be to hunt for the Khaymars.

It’s not for me to tell you exactly how to do this, but in my humble opinion, it is necessary to allocate a separate operational group, create a single center for processing intelligence information on the Khimars.

Subordinate the resources of long-range artillery and MLRS, aviation to this special group, give a team of lancelets, form several special groups of drg for physical work behind zero.

Through refugee channels through relatives serving in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, announce a reward of 10k euros for accurate data on the locations of these MLRS, teams and warehouses serving them. For returning the car with the expectation of announcing a reward of 1M euros, with new passports and state protection.

We need to start working complexly and subtly; Himari is causing too significant losses.

ZHIVOVZ
https://t.me/zhivoff/10982

These might be a dupe for you, as you’re apparently an avid reader of the big thread, but apparently I’m not really posting this for you anyway.

And yet the symbols work. As if I’m not saying anything new, here it’s more likely that I just need to speak out.

The attack on Sevastopol did not show anything from a military point of view that we did not know. Did we know that the red lines were reliably protected from defeat by the enemy? Yes, we knew. What about the fact that the enemy intends to escalate strikes? They knew. Did they understand that if the enemy stubbornly hammers missiles at the same point, then sooner or later the statistics will give their results?

You can continue for a long time. Nothing unexpected for the mind, but the psychological blow turned out to be severe. We can understand the inevitable with our heads, but accept and come to terms with our hearts - this is more difficult. I don’t know if I’m ready to realize that it’s time to get used to such an understanding.

But the trouble with symbolism is not that it has hit us now, but that this symbolism is spreading far beyond the borders of Russia. And this is one of the reasons why we are actually left without allies at a time when we really need real allies. Not those who agree to hang out in St. Petersburg, get old debts written off and collect new ones, not those who want to buy our resources for candy wrappers and at crazy discounts, but those who are ready to stand shoulder to shoulder with us, ignoring sanctions, putting their troops in same formation with ours, etc.

Just a bit of symbolism in the examples: Dogs are used to hunt bears, their purpose is usually to drive away or tire out the bear rather than directly fight it. Dogs often chase a bear, causing it to become tired, stop, and eventually leave its normal territory. Doesn't remind you of anything?

All that keeps us afloat now is our spirit. We do not allow ourselves to be broken, but this is already too little. The enemy’s tactics are not a secret: they are trying to destroy our logistics and headquarters, break communications and nullify control. This is not a frontal battle (it’s time to forget about those, they are in the past), where we are able to compete with anyone. This is a classic war of attrition, in which the rules are imposed not by us, but by us.

And, probably, this is our first war in history when the warring Russia does not create symbols, does not form new meanings. We copy the symbols of the Second World War, because then these symbols were created, and did not try to copy the meanings of the war with Napoleon. Today, for the first time in our history, we are losing the war of meanings and symbols. Forgive me, but Latin letters without a clear explanation are not the symbols that would be enough for us. When starting a war for the revival of one’s empire, presenting it as the flagship of the anti-colonial movement (i.e., the war of the colonies with the mother country for their independence) is very witty and original, but this is not enough.

All. I spoke out. This makes your soul feel lighter. It's time to go back to the ass of reality.

https://t.me/shouvalov/110

The problems of the SVO were a consequence of the enormous scale of mistakes made in the previous period, but especially in 2014.

In the distant future, 2014 will be called the time of the “golden generation of Russians,” the time of the greatest opportunities and the most terrible mistakes.

Everyone remembers how out of the blue the country received tens and hundreds of thousands of the same ideological people who at one time developed virgin lands, built the Baikal-Amur Mainline and generally created the history of the USSR out of pure enthusiasm. But in 2014, most of these people stumbled upon the barrier of state power, and this barrier methodically and stubbornly ground them into dust.

But the military aspect interests me much more, because we laid the foundations of our current position at the front then.

For the recruits, Donbass became a testing ground for the practical testing of our military special forces: the elite of key special forces had the opportunity to show their skills there. As a result, we sent there those who got into training through a sieve of the strictest selection, who spent years continuously learning their craft. The idea was clear: our specialists had to test their skills on enemy infantry.

But what was the reality: elite special forces, instead of core functions, often switched to combat operations, like ordinary infantry. There were fewer of our specialists, but the emphasis was on quality. But an elite special forces soldier, who has been trained for years for something like this, may not gain much new experience at all, while his loss nullifies many years of preparation. And numerous enemy forces from ordinary infantry (where the majority had no experience of military service before) could gain a lot of invaluable experience from such skirmishes.

As a result, our specialists became kind of instructors for the enemy army, and since 2014, the enemy has massively trained its military to the level of special forces, and we have wasted the most valuable fighters who were literally trained individually years earlier. From the point of view of military potential, we were losing, while the enemy was providing the strongest qualitative growth at our expense.

I’ll try to translate this into mathematics: let’s say we have 1 special forces officer with a training level of, say, 95%. And against him quantitatively - 100 enemy fighters, whose level of conditional training is 5%. Our fighter can gain 2-3% of his strength, while 100 enemy fighters can easily gain 30-40%. Those at the start we had 95 units. potential, it will be - let it be 98 units. The enemy had 500 units, but will have at least 3500 units. With the loss of each such fighter, we go into the minus, and the enemy, with his losses, goes into the plus in his overall military potential. This is a rough but illustrative example.

The main thing is different: before February 24, 2022, we forged the enemy’s army with our own hands, while losing more valuable specialists than we were able to prepare. Yes, before the start of the Northern Military District, for years we had been training more widespread specialists in the airborne forces, special forces and other equally important specialized specialties, but a political miscalculation led to the fact that the main best forces were lost without fighting.

But the starting point for fatal mistakes is 2014, because it was then that we not only failed to take advantage of the unprecedented national upsurge - we managed to turn it against our development. It is clear that in the end everyone is poisoned by the unfortunate oatmeal cookie, but why was it necessary to swallow so much turpentine in front of it?

Therefore, we seem to even at times successfully clean up current operational pro... errors. But this is the position of a sperm that manages to dodge the next piece of crap and rushes on, ignoring the fact that the main mistake for him was made without his participation and much earlier. Well, there are simply no other comparisons.

We won't get away with cosmetic changes. And I have no idea if I have the time, strength and desire. It’s just that in our case, the fertilization of the dream will not happen. Basic conditions do not allow it. And you, of course, can continue to dream about your beauty, but if you don’t radically change everything, then the cheerful adventures of our sperm will soon end, despite all its possible local maneuvers and successes.

https://t.me/shouvalov/111

All Russian sources. All with potentially useful information.

Right now a YouTuber can pay out of pocket to task a satellite and get current images of anyplace in the world, and imagery gets sent right from the front lines.
You want to tell me that I’m supposed to just ignore all of that because you say it’s all IO?

Clown shoes, dude.

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I dont actually read the "big thread", faded and others are nice enough to propagate everything everywhere,in every thread.

It's not about ignoring anything. All OSINT has value regardless of slant or bias.

However the way you frame it is consistent exactly with the designed (and highly mismanaged) IO campaign.

Ukraine cheerleader: "Ukraine is through all the lines, its curtains for Russia"
Me: "General consensus is one layer of the defensive line is breached".
You: "Well, here are 7 random tweets and a map to show that they are past the last line", proceeds to post zero conclusive evidence of anything other than a mere uncorroborated suggestion 1-2 vehicles may have gotten through.

Its just enough to allude to a conclusion, which you then use to also allude to that same conclusion. It's called narrative amplification.

Then if it never happened or if those two vehicles are now smoking holes in the ground we won't hear anything for 3 more weeks until it happens again.

Its a pretty easy pattern to identify and consistent with the overall strategy of creating a strictly controlled narrative and pushing it through centers of gravity that have been grown and established by sympathetic westerners as legitimate sources.

Either you routinely fall for it or you do it on purpose, but its pretty well characterized at this point. Its pretty neat that the only info that ever makes it through the "blackout" alludes to significant successes and gains, even more amazing that unbiased posters such as yourself never seem to catch such an overt pattern.

Posted: 9/23/2023 3:16:39 PM EDT

[#2]

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I dont actually read the "big thread", faded and others are nice enough to propagate everything everywhere,in every thread.

It's not about ignoring anything. All OSINT has value regardless of slant or bias.

However the way you frame it is consistent exactly with the designed (and highly mismanaged) IO campaign.

Ukraine cheerleader: "Ukraine is through all the lines, its curtains for Russia"
Me: "General consensus is one layer of the defensive line is breached".
You: "Well, here are 7 random tweets and a map to show that they are past the last line", proceeds to post zero conclusive evidence of anything other than a mere uncorroborated suggestion 1-2 vehicles may have gotten through.

Its just enough to allude to a conclusion, which you then use to also allude to that same conclusion. It's called narrative amplification.

Then if either never happened or if those two vehicles are smoking holes in the ground now we won't hear anything for 3 more weeks until it happens again.

Its a pretty easy pattern to identify and consistent with the overall strategy of creating a strictly controlled narrative and pushing it through centers of gravity that have been grown and established by sympathetic westerners as legitimate sources.

Either you routinely fall for it or you do it on purpose, but its pretty well characterized at this point. Its pretty neat that the only info that ever makes it through the "blackout" alludes to significant successes and gains.

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Yeeeeeah, Faded posts guys complaining about “the blackout”?

Now you’re just making shit up.

Posted: 9/23/2023 3:19:30 PM EDT

[#3]

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Yeeeeeah, Faded posts guys complaining about “the blackout”?

Now you’re just making shit up.

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Is there or is there not a media blackout related to the offensive?

If so, what great luck that your sources seem to be the only ones immune to it, who just so happen to consistently post towards the same effects, routinely, and on schedule? And how amazing that geolocation of Ukrainian units is not only highly frowned upon, its considered a crime....but every three weeks something is "geolocated" in a spot that is highly conducive to a narrative?

I called it to with less than a week, twice in a row. What random luck I must also have.

Posted: 9/23/2023 3:22:18 PM EDT

[#4]

Russia knows that the west has ADD and will stop the money eventually.

The Ukrainian leaders will have piles of cash offshore and will valiantly run away just like the Afghans, to live in mansions in Dubai.

The eternal war crowd will make patriotic memes about dead heroes who died making the rich richer.

Posted: 9/23/2023 3:26:09 PM EDT

[#5]

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you’re right, we had levied peace unto iraq. 2007 wasn’t part of cannon then, 3000 additional americans didn’t die. isis hadn’t yet been created.

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I wasn't discussing the policing operation, only what the military objectives were.

You put the photo up of Bush proclaiming "mission accomplished".

Now what are the differences between Russia's military successes at this point in the war and America's?

Russia hasn't conquered Ukraine or taken Zelenskyy. The USA did beat Iraq and also dragged Saddam out of a spider hole.

Posted: 9/23/2023 3:28:22 PM EDT

[#6]

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Is there or is there not a media blackout related to the offensive?

If so, what great luck that your sources seem to be the only ones immune to it, who just so happen to consistently post towards the same effects, routinely, and on schedule?

I called it to with less than a week, twice in a row. What random luck I must have.

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Yeeeeeah, Faded posts guys complaining about “the blackout”?

Now you’re just making shit up.

Is there or is there not a media blackout related to the offensive?

If so, what great luck that your sources seem to be the only ones immune to it, who just so happen to consistently post towards the same effects, routinely, and on schedule?

I called it to with less than a week, twice in a row. What random luck I must have.

I am not privy to the public affairs policies of the Ukrainian Government.
To your point, there’s no video from the Ukrainian side.

But to make the point that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about and worse, don’t pay attention to the things you’re talking so confidently about, Ukrainian positions are being geolocated from Russian video.

Ooops.

Guess you didn’t call shit.

Posted: 9/23/2023 3:35:56 PM EDT

[#7]

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Russia knows that the west has ADD and will stop the money eventually.

The Ukrainian leaders will have piles of cash offshore and will valiantly run away just like the Afghans, to live in mansions in Dubai.

The eternal war crowd will make patriotic memes about dead heroes who died making the rich richer.

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If they were going to do that it would really have been a three day war. I don't buy this line, there is corruption everywhere, but Ukraine is genuinely in the fight and Russia is genuinely humiliated

Posted: 9/23/2023 3:40:25 PM EDT

[#8]

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It's actually pretty easy to be for one but not the other.

Do you really think Gen Milley or Gen Clapper are for the United States?

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So you're against the United States and its defense agencies. Thanks for being so transparent.

It's actually pretty easy to be for one but not the other.

Do you really think Gen Milley or Gen Clapper are for the United States?

The United States is a government under a constitution. You can claim be be against politicians or parties or policies, but when you claim to be against the United States government in a general way you are declaring yourself to be against the country itself.

There are lots of people here who want the CIA to lose, NATO to lose, US allies to fall, and Russia to win. No doubt this is the influence of the FSB.

Posted: 9/23/2023 3:43:40 PM EDT

[#9]

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I am not privy to the public affairs policies of the Ukrainian Government.
To your point, there’s no video from the Ukrainian side.

But to make the point that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about and worse, don’t pay attention to the things you’re talking so confidently about, Ukrainian positions are being geolocated from Russian video.

Ooops.

Guess you didn’t call shit.

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Ah yes, and posted on every Ukrainian source available, and plotted on maps endorsed by Ukrainian sources as well.

The old "the Russians geolocated our most forward units, hurry we must tell everyone and brag about it!"

Classic.

See you in three weeks.

Posted: 9/23/2023 3:48:43 PM EDT

[#10]

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Ah yes, and posted on every Ukrainian source available, and plotted on maps endorsed by Ukrainian sources as well.

The old "the Russians geolocated our most forward units, hurry we must tell everyone and brag about it!"

Classic.

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Why the fuck would the Russians geolocate it?
You are out of your depth here.

Go back to the SCIF and try not to be mad that almost everything you’re reading has been on Telegram for two days already.

Posted: 9/23/2023 3:58:28 PM EDT

[#11]

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Why the fuck would the Russians geolocate it?
You are out of your depth here.

Go back to the SCIF and try not to be mad that almost everything you’re reading has been on Telegram for two days already.

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We were talking about this in the mil thread days ago, and like I said, I called it weeks ago. Nothing you posted was new, I have seen it in several places. Its just amusing that I have been sitting back waiting for you guys to start blasting this nonsense to allude to an outcome.....and right on schedule here you guys are. Sorry, I was off by 3 days with my 3 week estimate, ill try to be more precise next time.

Its extremely marginal info, from dubious sources, but its being presented by them and you in a manner which everyone knows is manufactured and contrived.

The point being, it doesn't matter who geolocated the most forward and exposed Ukrainian vehicles, but it was done....and was deliberately amplified by pro-Ukrainian sources. There is no value otherwise outside of feeding a results based narrative that so far has followed a very consistent timeline.

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:14:13 PM EDT

[#12]

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I never heard if you thought the Rostov was damaged. In light of the new info that came out, do you think that's true?

@daoliver924

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Videos from Russian TV are Ukrainian sources? ??

But but but but

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He'll post a statement made by a reporter that was withdrawn immediately

A Russian government spokesman, actually. Even TASS shared it.

It's hard to take the statement "The split since 1991 has been repaired" and "Ukraine has returned to Russia" any other way.

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:15:36 PM EDT

[#13]

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So you didn't say "The Ukrainians have about 7 million available men (not counting the elderly and those who are out of the country)." ?

Again if they have that many, why aren't they fighting?

Surely even 20% of that number would push the Russians out

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Oh yes, Ukraine has the ability to feed, clothe, arm, and train 7 million men simultaneously and also keep other vital industries running.

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:20:42 PM EDT

[#14]

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"Ukraine has returned to Russia"

The internet archives captured it, however

Petr Akopov is a Russian propagandist working for RIA Novosti, a Russian state-owned news agency. Akapov was the author of the prematurely published and then retracted article titled "The arrival/attack of Russia and the new world" ("??????????? ?????? ? ?????? ????"), which was written in advance anticipating the Russian victory in the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. In the ominous article, Akapov announced that "Ukraine has returned to Russia" and condemned "Anglo-Saxons who rule the West" for "attempting to steal Russian land", and asserted that Russian President Vladimir Putin's launch of the invasion resolved the "Ukrainian question" to establish a "new world order" with "Russia, Belarus and Ukraine".[1][2] Before the news agency retracted the article, it was republished by another Russian state-owned news agency Sputnik and published by the Pakistani newspaper The Frontier Post in English.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_Akopov

They had to retract it because nobody in Ukraine wanted to be "liberated" by Russia.

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LOL! That's just an opinion piece from a civilian--and he retracted it.

That's not a citation that proves your original claim that Russia declared victory.

Where is the official news release from the Russian government?

You don't have one, so I have to classify your claim as bullshit.

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:24:26 PM EDT

[#15]

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He'll post a statement made by a reporter that was withdrawn immediately

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LOL!

That's exactly what he did.........which is bullshit.

If anyone has a declaration of victory by the Russian government I'd like to see it, because I don't believe it exists.

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:31:12 PM EDT

[#16]

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I am not privy to the public affairs policies of the Ukrainian Government.
To your point, there's no video from the Ukrainian side.

But to make the point that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and worse, don't pay attention to the things you're talking so confidently about, Ukrainian positions are being geolocated from Russian video.

Ooops.

Guess you didn't call shit.

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Yeeeeeah, Faded posts guys complaining about "the blackout"?

Now you're just making shit up.

Is there or is there not a media blackout related to the offensive?

If so, what great luck that your sources seem to be the only ones immune to it, who just so happen to consistently post towards the same effects, routinely, and on schedule?

I called it to with less than a week, twice in a row. What random luck I must have.

I am not privy to the public affairs policies of the Ukrainian Government.
To your point, there's no video from the Ukrainian side.

But to make the point that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and worse, don't pay attention to the things you're talking so confidently about, Ukrainian positions are being geolocated from Russian video.

Ooops.

Guess you didn't call shit.

Answer this. Who does the "geolocating"?

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:32:11 PM EDT

[#17]

I'm really not convinced that this attack on the Black Sea Military HQ was significant.

PBS does a good job of sharing the lies of both sides.

Ukraine’s intelligence chief, Kyrylo Budanov, told Voice of America on Saturday that at least nine people were killed and 16 others wounded as a result of Kyiv’s attack on the Black Sea Fleet on Friday. He claimed that Alexander Romanchuk, a Russian general commanding forces along the key southeastern front line, was “in a very serious condition” following the attack.

Budanov’s claim couldn’t be independently verified, and he didn’t comment on whether Western-made missiles were used in Friday’s attack. The Russian Defense Ministry initially said that the strike killed one service member at the Black Sea Fleet headquarters, but later issued a statement that he was missing.

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https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/ukrainian-missile-strikes-headquarters-of-russias-black-sea-fleet-in-crimea

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/russia-intercepts-ukrainian-missiles-over-crimea-a-day-after-attack-on-black-sea-fleet-hqhttps://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/russia-intercepts-ukrainian-missiles-over-crimea-a-day-after-attack-on-black-sea-fleet-hq

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:34:03 PM EDT

[#18]

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I never heard if you thought the Rostov was damaged. In light of the new info that came out, do you think that's true?

@daoliver924

But but but but

A Russian government spokesman, actually. Even TASS shared it.

It's hard to take the statement "The split since 1991 has been repaired" and "Ukraine has returned to Russia" any other way.

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I never heard if you thought the Rostov was damaged. In light of the new info that came out, do you think that's true?

@daoliver924

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Videos from Russian TV are Ukrainian sources?

But but but but

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He'll post a statement made by a reporter that was withdrawn immediately

A Russian government spokesman, actually. Even TASS shared it.

It's hard to take the statement "The split since 1991 has been repaired" and "Ukraine has returned to Russia" any other way.

Um, no he was not and you know it.

Go back to "protecting" the border. You're so effective at it.

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:34:58 PM EDT

[#19]

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Oh yes, Ukraine has the ability to feed, clothe, arm, and train 7 million men simultaneously and also keep other vital industries running.

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That's not what he said. Spin harder.

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:48:02 PM EDT

[#20]

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Russia knows that the west has ADD and will stop the money eventually.

The Ukrainian leaders will have piles of cash offshore and will valiantly run away just like the Afghans, to live in mansions in Dubai.

The eternal war crowd will make patriotic memes about dead heroes who died making the rich richer.

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The West no longer has the stomach and attention span to win a long-term counterinsurgency against ragtag militants.

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:50:45 PM EDT

[#21]

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There is a model here, and whether you are aware or not, you are supporting it. It's an IO model. It has happened every 3 weeks or so since June, on Twitter and various sources of every 15 meter increment gain being deliberately amplified as the great Ukrainian breakout. It's happening again right now... based on very sketchy evidence followed up by an unsubstantiated narrative, over a very minor action. If it pans out, great. The problem is this has happened numerous times and is deliberately amplified by design, and when it does not pan out the sources just go dark on it until a few weeks later when another minor action picks it right back up again.

This is absolutely counterproductive and borderline deceptive. At this point the cat is out of the bag, and the fact that it is still being employed is absolutely absurd. Like I said, books will be written about the failures of IO in this conflict, and you and others here are helping perpetuate it.

For somebody who is so convinced there are zero tangible effects possible here, you sure do like to self-identify anything and everything as "Russian propaganda". There is heavy propaganda on both sides, you just don't seem to have an issue posting one versus the other.

With that said at this point the outcome of this war is essentially dependent upon the results of a conflict of public perception within the political spheres of several key countries. It's odd that you think social media doesn't matter in that regard, when you yourself are so heavily reliant upon it.

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I’m not interested in “supporting the Ukrainian conflict”. It’s the height of self-involved arrogance to think AR15.com general discussion will have a measurable effect on the outcome of the war.

Remember that this thing goes both ways- either Russia can’t fight its way out of a paper bag, or given three months and a couple freighters full of TM-62s, petal mines, and MDK-3s, they can make defenses that even Private Conscritptavich can’t fuck up. These are conditions that no other veteran, alive or dead, has faced. Don’t diminish that for either side.

There are no models here. This is just what’s out in the world, including the Russian world.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6o7XCHWwAA96RV?format=jpg&name=large

And no, Rybar doesn’t ever zoom in any more than that, which should tell you something.
I could show you posts from actual Russians that support all of this weak evidence, but there’s no reason to duplicate that effort, you know where to find it.

Let’s talk about models-

1) The “Russia Stronk” model got drunk on vodka in 1985 and still doesn’t know the USSR broke up and RF consistently ranks behind France in GDP.

2) Zelensky Globohomo Clownworld model ignores that Ukraine did the heavy lifting for the USSR and had a functional rocket program until months after the invasion, and thinks that the only way Russia could be losing (or for the sake of the argument, not making steady progress toward Kyiv) is because of Polish mercenaries and NATO SOF.

Models are stupid, foremost because you can always find data to fit your model, no matter how Clownworld it is.

If you can offer up information that proves or disproves something, do it.
I will agree with you on one point, and apply it to just about everyone.

People need to stop acting like they know exactly what is going to happen. There’s way too much of that.

There is a model here, and whether you are aware or not, you are supporting it. It's an IO model. It has happened every 3 weeks or so since June, on Twitter and various sources of every 15 meter increment gain being deliberately amplified as the great Ukrainian breakout. It's happening again right now... based on very sketchy evidence followed up by an unsubstantiated narrative, over a very minor action. If it pans out, great. The problem is this has happened numerous times and is deliberately amplified by design, and when it does not pan out the sources just go dark on it until a few weeks later when another minor action picks it right back up again.

This is absolutely counterproductive and borderline deceptive. At this point the cat is out of the bag, and the fact that it is still being employed is absolutely absurd. Like I said, books will be written about the failures of IO in this conflict, and you and others here are helping perpetuate it.

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It’s the height of self-involved arrogance to think AR15.com general discussion will have a measurable effect on the outcome of the war.

For somebody who is so convinced there are zero tangible effects possible here, you sure do like to self-identify anything and everything as "Russian propaganda". There is heavy propaganda on both sides, you just don't seem to have an issue posting one versus the other.

With that said at this point the outcome of this war is essentially dependent upon the results of a conflict of public perception within the political spheres of several key countries. It's odd that you think social media doesn't matter in that regard, when you yourself are so heavily reliant upon it.

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Yeah, I know some of you guys are readers of the big thread, no matter the shit you talk.

The last time someone said it was slow in there was two days ago.
You know what I thought?

“The FUCK it is”.
Kinda pissed me off a little.

There’s always information coming out, more than I can possible post. But instead, most people want to read two headlines and figure they’ve got a good bead on it.
Here are some examples from today, that, by the way, have nothing to do with the counteroffensive.

Sevastopol completely unprepared to get hit back

Regional channels in Sevastopol are filled with video cameras of people unable to get into shelters, or with shelters in poor condition.
Now local authorities will clearly take care of this.
It’s high time to focus the efforts of the entire society and government on Victory, and not on depicting the careless reality of peacetime

Two majors
https://t.me/dva_majors/26116

HIMARS still killing it
Taking into account recent events, I propose that the army command still think about creating special forces, whose sole task will be to hunt for the Khaymars.

It’s not for me to tell you exactly how to do this, but in my humble opinion, it is necessary to allocate a separate operational group, create a single center for processing intelligence information on the Khimars.

Subordinate the resources of long-range artillery and MLRS, aviation to this special group, give a team of lancelets, form several special groups of drg for physical work behind zero.

Through refugee channels through relatives serving in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, announce a reward of 10k euros for accurate data on the locations of these MLRS, teams and warehouses serving them. For returning the car with the expectation of announcing a reward of 1M euros, with new passports and state protection.

We need to start working complexly and subtly; Himari is causing too significant losses.

ZHIVOVZ
https://t.me/zhivoff/10982

These might be a dupe for you, as you’re apparently an avid reader of the big thread, but apparently I’m not really posting this for you anyway.

And yet the symbols work. As if I’m not saying anything new, here it’s more likely that I just need to speak out.

The attack on Sevastopol did not show anything from a military point of view that we did not know. Did we know that the red lines were reliably protected from defeat by the enemy? Yes, we knew. What about the fact that the enemy intends to escalate strikes? They knew. Did they understand that if the enemy stubbornly hammers missiles at the same point, then sooner or later the statistics will give their results?

You can continue for a long time. Nothing unexpected for the mind, but the psychological blow turned out to be severe. We can understand the inevitable with our heads, but accept and come to terms with our hearts - this is more difficult. I don’t know if I’m ready to realize that it’s time to get used to such an understanding.

But the trouble with symbolism is not that it has hit us now, but that this symbolism is spreading far beyond the borders of Russia. And this is one of the reasons why we are actually left without allies at a time when we really need real allies. Not those who agree to hang out in St. Petersburg, get old debts written off and collect new ones, not those who want to buy our resources for candy wrappers and at crazy discounts, but those who are ready to stand shoulder to shoulder with us, ignoring sanctions, putting their troops in same formation with ours, etc.

Just a bit of symbolism in the examples: Dogs are used to hunt bears, their purpose is usually to drive away or tire out the bear rather than directly fight it. Dogs often chase a bear, causing it to become tired, stop, and eventually leave its normal territory. Doesn't remind you of anything?

All that keeps us afloat now is our spirit. We do not allow ourselves to be broken, but this is already too little. The enemy’s tactics are not a secret: they are trying to destroy our logistics and headquarters, break communications and nullify control. This is not a frontal battle (it’s time to forget about those, they are in the past), where we are able to compete with anyone. This is a classic war of attrition, in which the rules are imposed not by us, but by us.

And, probably, this is our first war in history when the warring Russia does not create symbols, does not form new meanings. We copy the symbols of the Second World War, because then these symbols were created, and did not try to copy the meanings of the war with Napoleon. Today, for the first time in our history, we are losing the war of meanings and symbols. Forgive me, but Latin letters without a clear explanation are not the symbols that would be enough for us. When starting a war for the revival of one’s empire, presenting it as the flagship of the anti-colonial movement (i.e., the war of the colonies with the mother country for their independence) is very witty and original, but this is not enough.

All. I spoke out. This makes your soul feel lighter. It's time to go back to the ass of reality.

https://t.me/shouvalov/110

The problems of the SVO were a consequence of the enormous scale of mistakes made in the previous period, but especially in 2014.

In the distant future, 2014 will be called the time of the “golden generation of Russians,” the time of the greatest opportunities and the most terrible mistakes.

Everyone remembers how out of the blue the country received tens and hundreds of thousands of the same ideological people who at one time developed virgin lands, built the Baikal-Amur Mainline and generally created the history of the USSR out of pure enthusiasm. But in 2014, most of these people stumbled upon the barrier of state power, and this barrier methodically and stubbornly ground them into dust.

But the military aspect interests me much more, because we laid the foundations of our current position at the front then.

For the recruits, Donbass became a testing ground for the practical testing of our military special forces: the elite of key special forces had the opportunity to show their skills there. As a result, we sent there those who got into training through a sieve of the strictest selection, who spent years continuously learning their craft. The idea was clear: our specialists had to test their skills on enemy infantry.

But what was the reality: elite special forces, instead of core functions, often switched to combat operations, like ordinary infantry. There were fewer of our specialists, but the emphasis was on quality. But an elite special forces soldier, who has been trained for years for something like this, may not gain much new experience at all, while his loss nullifies many years of preparation. And numerous enemy forces from ordinary infantry (where the majority had no experience of military service before) could gain a lot of invaluable experience from such skirmishes.

As a result, our specialists became kind of instructors for the enemy army, and since 2014, the enemy has massively trained its military to the level of special forces, and we have wasted the most valuable fighters who were literally trained individually years earlier. From the point of view of military potential, we were losing, while the enemy was providing the strongest qualitative growth at our expense.

I’ll try to translate this into mathematics: let’s say we have 1 special forces officer with a training level of, say, 95%. And against him quantitatively - 100 enemy fighters, whose level of conditional training is 5%. Our fighter can gain 2-3% of his strength, while 100 enemy fighters can easily gain 30-40%. Those at the start we had 95 units. potential, it will be - let it be 98 units. The enemy had 500 units, but will have at least 3500 units. With the loss of each such fighter, we go into the minus, and the enemy, with his losses, goes into the plus in his overall military potential. This is a rough but illustrative example.

The main thing is different: before February 24, 2022, we forged the enemy’s army with our own hands, while losing more valuable specialists than we were able to prepare. Yes, before the start of the Northern Military District, for years we had been training more widespread specialists in the airborne forces, special forces and other equally important specialized specialties, but a political miscalculation led to the fact that the main best forces were lost without fighting.

But the starting point for fatal mistakes is 2014, because it was then that we not only failed to take advantage of the unprecedented national upsurge - we managed to turn it against our development. It is clear that in the end everyone is poisoned by the unfortunate oatmeal cookie, but why was it necessary to swallow so much turpentine in front of it?

Therefore, we seem to even at times successfully clean up current operational pro... errors. But this is the position of a sperm that manages to dodge the next piece of crap and rushes on, ignoring the fact that the main mistake for him was made without his participation and much earlier. Well, there are simply no other comparisons.

We won't get away with cosmetic changes. And I have no idea if I have the time, strength and desire. It’s just that in our case, the fertilization of the dream will not happen. Basic conditions do not allow it. And you, of course, can continue to dream about your beauty, but if you don’t radically change everything, then the cheerful adventures of our sperm will soon end, despite all its possible local maneuvers and successes.

https://t.me/shouvalov/111

All Russian sources. All with potentially useful information.

Right now a YouTuber can pay out of pocket to task a satellite and get current images of anyplace in the world, and imagery gets sent right from the front lines.
You want to tell me that I’m supposed to just ignore all of that because you say it’s all IO?

Clown shoes, dude.

I dont actually read the "big thread", faded and others are nice enough to propagate everything everywhere,in every thread.

It's not about ignoring anything. All OSINT has value regardless of slant or bias.

However the way you frame it is consistent exactly with the designed (and highly mismanaged) IO campaign.

Ukraine cheerleader: "Ukraine is through all the lines, its curtains for Russia"
Me: "General consensus is one layer of the defensive line is breached".
You: "Well, here are 7 random tweets and a map to show that they are past the last line", proceeds to post zero conclusive evidence of anything other than a mere uncorroborated suggestion 1-2 vehicles may have gotten through.

Its just enough to allude to a conclusion, which you then use to also allude to that same conclusion. It's called narrative amplification.

Then if it never happened or if those two vehicles are now smoking holes in the ground we won't hear anything for 3 more weeks until it happens again.

Its a pretty easy pattern to identify and consistent with the overall strategy of creating a strictly controlled narrative and pushing it through centers of gravity that have been grown and established by sympathetic westerners as legitimate sources.

Either you routinely fall for it or you do it on purpose, but its pretty well characterized at this point. Its pretty neat that the only info that ever makes it through the "blackout" alludes to significant successes and gains, even more amazing that unbiased posters such as yourself never seem to catch such an overt pattern.

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Holy shit. As someone who does read the big thread from time to time, this is amazing and impressively correct.

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:58:30 PM EDT

[#22]

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LOL!

That's exactly what he did.........which is bullshit.

If anyone has a declaration of victory by the Russian government I'd like to see it, because I don't believe it exists.

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LOL!

That's exactly what he did.........which is bullshit.

If anyone has a declaration of victory by the Russian government I'd like to see it, because I don't believe it exists.

He is a Russian paid reporter and meets the definition of a "spokesman". His job is to publicly speak and release pro-Kremlin narratives, none of which are to push anti-Kremlin points or in any way detract from Putin's messages he wants spread and is similar to other Russian propagandists' statements.

Solvoyvow: "Kiev will fall so fast"

Semonyan: "In a hot war we will defeat Ukraine in 2 days"

Akopov: "Ukraine has returned to Russia".

He retracted it because his declaration ended up being BS as Russians were retreating from kyiv, thus defeating the entire "Kyiv in a few days" mantra the Russians had been repeating since the run up to the war.

His declaration was what Russia actually believed which was different than facts on the ground.

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Um, no he was not and you know it.

Go back to "protecting" the border. You're so effective at it.

He absolutely was.

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:59:02 PM EDT

[#23]

It will cost me less money if Russia steam rolls them. Not that I like that at all, but my money is my money. This could go on forever

Posted: 9/23/2023 4:59:17 PM EDT

[#24]

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The West no longer has the stomach and attention span to win a long-term counterinsurgency against ragtag militants.

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Thankfully we aren't fighting insurgents but a conventional army and the results are visible and apparent.

Posted: 9/23/2023 5:14:15 PM EDT

[#25]

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Thankfully we aren't fighting insurgents but a conventional army and the results are visible and apparent.

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The West no longer has the stomach and attention span to win a long-term counterinsurgency against ragtag militants.

Thankfully we aren't fighting insurgents but a conventional army and the results are visible and apparent.

"We"?

Posted: 9/23/2023 6:21:04 PM EDT

[#26]

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We were talking about this in the mil thread days ago, and like I said, I called it weeks ago. Nothing you posted was new, I have seen it in several places. Its just amusing that I have been sitting back waiting for you guys to start blasting this nonsense to allude to an outcome.....and right on schedule here you guys are. Sorry, I was off by 3 days with my 3 week estimate, ill try to be more precise next time.

Its extremely marginal info, from dubious sources, but its being presented by them and you in a manner which everyone knows is manufactured and contrived.

The point being, it doesn't matter who geolocated the most forward and exposed Ukrainian vehicles, but it was done....and was deliberately amplified by pro-Ukrainian sources. There is no value otherwise outside of feeding a results based narrative that so far has followed a very consistent timeline.

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You’ve seen Russian Telegram posts from this morning “several places”? Okay.
I’ll let those Russians know that you consider their Telegram posts as dubious and manufactured. They’ll be devastated.

As for the geolocation, it matters that you clearly didn’t know what happened. But go ahead, tell us again how that doesn’t matter because you’ve got it all figured out.

You’ve conclusively demonstrated that

1) you don’t know the material
2) you make shit up

And then to cover, you say “anyone talking about one of the most important geopolitical events in the last 100 years is amplifying a narrative”, even if it’s the Russians themselves.

It’s nonsense, and you’ve gone off the deep end in support of your own manufactured narrative.

Posted: 9/23/2023 6:54:24 PM EDT

[#27]

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You’ve seen Russian Telegram posts from this morning “several places”? Okay.
I’ll let those Russians know that you consider their Telegram posts as dubious and manufactured. They’ll be devastated.

As for the geolocation, it matters that you clearly didn’t know what happened. But go ahead, tell us again how that doesn’t matter because you’ve got it all figured out.

You’ve conclusively demonstrated that

1) you don’t know the material
2) you make shit up

And then to cover, you say “anyone talking about one of the most important geopolitical events in the last 100 years is amplifying a narrative”, even if it’s the Russians themselves.

It’s nonsense, and you’ve gone off the deep end in support of your own manufactured narrative.

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You’ve seen Russian Telegram posts from this morning “several places”? Okay.
I’ll let those Russians know that you consider their Telegram posts as dubious and manufactured. They’ll be devastated.

As for the geolocation, it matters that you clearly didn’t know what happened. But go ahead, tell us again how that doesn’t matter because you’ve got it all figured out.

You’ve conclusively demonstrated that

1) you don’t know the material
2) you make shit up

And then to cover, you say “anyone talking about one of the most important geopolitical events in the last 100 years is amplifying a narrative”, even if it’s the Russians themselves.

It’s nonsense, and you’ve gone off the deep end in support of your own manufactured narrative.

Umm, I said from multiple sources. It was posted in the milforum thread 2 days ago, and multiple sources have started following up. I know you have convinced yourself that you are an OSINT master, but everybody is at this point. I was actually very specific about what exactly was being amplified down to the when and where, not "anyone talking about anything", but if fabricating broad generalization is what it takes to help you save face, feel free.

The narrative you were trying to allude to was dubious and manufactured, and still is. You are using very questionable sources trying to imply Ukraine has broken through the last defensive line, and stacking them to make it seem like it's a lot of data, which it absolutely is not. This is a quantifiable trend of deception, which you seem to be supportive of.

Your counter here is essentially "nuh uh" and "you dont understand shit" versus explaining exactly how I am wrong, which is very telling.

My narrative and "agenda" is finding the ground truth, nothing more and nothing less. Don't worry though, I called this the last couple times it occurred, I'll do the same the next time, and I'm sure you will make excuses then too.

Quoted:
Holy shit. As someone who does read the big thread from time to time, this is amazing and impressively correct.

Nothing gets past those guys, as long as it supports their agenda.

Posted: 9/23/2023 7:07:18 PM EDT

[#28]

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He is a Russian paid reporter and meets the definition of a "spokesman". His job is to publicly speak and release pro-Kremlin narratives, none of which are to push anti-Kremlin points or in any way detract from Putin's messages he wants spread and is similar to other Russian propagandists' statements.

Solvoyvow: "Kiev will fall so fast"

Semonyan: "In a hot war we will defeat Ukraine in 2 days"

Akopov: "Ukraine has returned to Russia".

He retracted it because his declaration ended up being BS as Russians were retreating from kyiv, thus defeating the entire "Kyiv in a few days" mantra the Russians had been repeating since the run up to the war.

His declaration was what Russia actually believed which was different than facts on the ground.

He absolutely was.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

LOL!

That's exactly what he did.........which is bullshit.

If anyone has a declaration of victory by the Russian government I'd like to see it, because I don't believe it exists.

He is a Russian paid reporter and meets the definition of a "spokesman". His job is to publicly speak and release pro-Kremlin narratives, none of which are to push anti-Kremlin points or in any way detract from Putin's messages he wants spread and is similar to other Russian propagandists' statements.

Solvoyvow: "Kiev will fall so fast"

Semonyan: "In a hot war we will defeat Ukraine in 2 days"

Akopov: "Ukraine has returned to Russia".

He retracted it because his declaration ended up being BS as Russians were retreating from kyiv, thus defeating the entire "Kyiv in a few days" mantra the Russians had been repeating since the run up to the war.

His declaration was what Russia actually believed which was different than facts on the ground.

Quoted:
Um, no he was not and you know it.

Go back to "protecting" the border. You're so effective at it.

He absolutely was.

Attached File

Posted: 9/23/2023 7:08:30 PM EDT

[#29]

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Thankfully we aren't fighting insurgents but a conventional army and the results are visible and apparent.

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Quoted:

The West no longer has the stomach and attention span to win a long-term counterinsurgency against ragtag militants.

Thankfully we aren't fighting insurgents but a conventional army and the results are visible and apparent.

300 feet a day.
It will take 2 years to reach the stated objective of Melitopol

Posted: 9/23/2023 7:10:37 PM EDT

[#30]

Man, are you guys still going at it? What a waste...

Posted: 9/23/2023 7:14:51 PM EDT

[#31]

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300 feet a day.
It will take 2 years to reach the stated objective of Melitopol

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Quoted:

The West no longer has the stomach and attention span to win a long-term counterinsurgency against ragtag militants.

Thankfully we aren't fighting insurgents but a conventional army and the results are visible and apparent.

300 feet a day.
It will take 2 years to reach the stated objective of Melitopol

Sigma male attritional grindset fr fr

Posted: 9/23/2023 7:36:31 PM EDT

[#32]

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The United States is a government under a constitution. You can claim be be against politicians or parties or policies, but when you claim to be against the United States government in a general way you are declaring yourself to be against the country itself.

There are lots of people here who want the CIA to lose, NATO to lose, US allies to fall, and Russia to win. No doubt this is the influence of the FSB.

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Such pathetic bullshit as you attempt to gaslight everyone in this thread.

Posted: 9/23/2023 7:38:55 PM EDT

[#33]

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Oh yes, Ukraine has the ability to feed, clothe, arm, and train 7 million men simultaneously and also keep other vital industries running.

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In WW2 Americans, mostly men, rose up to defend the country in such a quantity that women and children had to backfill the production lines.

Posted: 9/23/2023 7:42:27 PM EDT

[#34]

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He is a Russian paid reporter and meets the definition of a "spokesman". His job is to publicly speak and release pro-Kremlin narratives, none of which are to push anti-Kremlin points or in any way detract from Putin's messages he wants spread and is similar to other Russian propagandists' statements.

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LOL! You can't offer a single official statement from Putin claiming victory.

Are all the Uke cheerleaders as crooked and deceptive as you?

Stop the bullshit. You're smelling up the place.

Posted: 9/23/2023 8:09:12 PM EDT

[#35]

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LOL! You can't offer a single official statement from Putin claiming victory.

Are all the Uke cheerleaders as crooked and deceptive as you?

Stop the bullshit. You're smelling up the place.

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I'm not aware of any either, and I'm pretty adamantly anti-Russia in all this.

The closest thing I can recall is the long ago claim that the Kyiv front was a feint and they withdraw from that front on purpose.

Posted: 9/23/2023 9:47:52 PM EDT

[#36]

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I'm not aware of any either, and I'm pretty adamantly anti-Russia in all this.

The closest thing I can recall is the long ago claim that the Kyiv front was a feint and they withdraw from that front on purpose.

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I take what both sides say with a pound of salt.

They both continue to lie.

BUT.........saying that Russia claimed victory in the first day or two is an obvious lie.

Never happened.

Posted: 9/23/2023 10:58:38 PM EDT

[#37]

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"We"?

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Quoted:

The West no longer has the stomach and attention span to win a long-term counterinsurgency against ragtag militants.

Thankfully we aren't fighting insurgents but a conventional army and the results are visible and apparent.

"We"?

Posted: 9/24/2023 12:10:29 AM EDT

[#38]

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LOL! You can't offer a single official statement from Putin claiming victory.

Are all the Uke cheerleaders as crooked and deceptive as you?

Stop the bullshit. You're smelling up the place.

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It doesn’t have to be from putin. He actually has a lot of people whose sole job it is write speeches, push propaganda, and write articles. Do you think that article was somehow not approved by Putin?

Good to know KJP, fauci, and those other folks aren’t representatives of the fed gov here and nothing from them can be taken as being from the gov.

It’s not deceptive or crooked. Akopov is a paid Russian government employee who works at a state funded media company.

Posted: 9/24/2023 3:35:33 AM EDT

[#39]

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Umm, I said from multiple sources. It was posted in the milforum thread 2 days ago, and multiple sources have started following up. I know you have convinced yourself that you are an OSINT master, but everybody is at this point. I was actually very specific about what exactly was being amplified down to the when and where, not "anyone talking about anything", but if fabricating broad generalization is what it takes to help you save face, feel free.

The narrative you were trying to allude to was dubious and manufactured, and still is. You are using very questionable sources trying to imply Ukraine has broken through the last defensive line, and stacking them to make it seem like it's a lot of data, which it absolutely is not. This is a quantifiable trend of deception, which you seem to be supportive of.

Your counter here is essentially "nuh uh" and "you dont understand shit" versus explaining exactly how I am wrong, which is very telling.

My narrative and "agenda" is finding the ground truth, nothing more and nothing less. Don't worry though, I called this the last couple times it occurred, I'll do the same the next time, and I'm sure you will make excuses then too.

Nothing gets past those guys, as long as it supports their agenda.

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Quoted:

You’ve seen Russian Telegram posts from this morning “several places”? Okay.
I’ll let those Russians know that you consider their Telegram posts as dubious and manufactured. They’ll be devastated.

As for the geolocation, it matters that you clearly didn’t know what happened. But go ahead, tell us again how that doesn’t matter because you’ve got it all figured out.

You’ve conclusively demonstrated that

1) you don’t know the material
2) you make shit up

And then to cover, you say “anyone talking about one of the most important geopolitical events in the last 100 years is amplifying a narrative”, even if it’s the Russians themselves.

It’s nonsense, and you’ve gone off the deep end in support of your own manufactured narrative.

Umm, I said from multiple sources. It was posted in the milforum thread 2 days ago, and multiple sources have started following up. I know you have convinced yourself that you are an OSINT master, but everybody is at this point. I was actually very specific about what exactly was being amplified down to the when and where, not "anyone talking about anything", but if fabricating broad generalization is what it takes to help you save face, feel free.

The narrative you were trying to allude to was dubious and manufactured, and still is. You are using very questionable sources trying to imply Ukraine has broken through the last defensive line, and stacking them to make it seem like it's a lot of data, which it absolutely is not. This is a quantifiable trend of deception, which you seem to be supportive of.

Your counter here is essentially "nuh uh" and "you dont understand shit" versus explaining exactly how I am wrong, which is very telling.

My narrative and "agenda" is finding the ground truth, nothing more and nothing less. Don't worry though, I called this the last couple times it occurred, I'll do the same the next time, and I'm sure you will make excuses then too.

Quoted:
Holy shit. As someone who does read the big thread from time to time, this is amazing and impressively correct.

Nothing gets past those guys, as long as it supports their agenda.

Yep, it really is something when you see it happen. lol

Posted: 9/24/2023 9:35:40 AM EDT

[#40]

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It doesn’t have to be from putin. He actually has a lot of people whose sole job it is write speeches, push propaganda, and write articles. Do you think that article was somehow not approved by Putin?

It’s not deceptive or crooked. Akopov is a paid Russian government employee who works at a state funded media company.

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No. If you had something official I'd believe it (a quote from Putin to that effect, for example).

An opinion piece by a media hack is not the same as the "Russian government claiming victory."

But I guess you're desperate enough to make ridiculous claims.

Why? There are plenty of valid criticisms of Russia.

Use them..........not bullshit.

Posted: 9/24/2023 11:04:57 AM EDT

[#41]

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No. If you had something official I'd believe it (a quote from Putin to that effect, for example).

An opinion piece by a media hack is not the same as the "Russian government claiming victory."

But I guess you're desperate enough to make ridiculous claims.

Why? There are plenty of valid criticisms of Russia.

Use them..........not bullshit

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Quoted:
It doesn't have to be from putin. He actually has a lot of people whose sole job it is write speeches, push propaganda, and write articles. Do you think that article was somehow not approved by Putin?

It's not deceptive or crooked. Akopov is a paid Russian government employee who works at a state funded media company.

No. If you had something official I'd believe it (a quote from Putin to that effect, for example).

An opinion piece by a media hack is not the same as the "Russian government claiming victory."

But I guess you're desperate enough to make ridiculous claims.

Why? There are plenty of valid criticisms of Russia.

Use them..........not bullshit

He neglects to mention the Russian gov had it pulled within hours.

It's total bullshit.

Posted: 9/24/2023 10:07:16 PM EDT

[#42]

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No. If you had something official I'd believe it (a quote from Putin to that effect, for example).

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No. If you had something official I'd believe it (a quote from Putin to that effect, for example).

Putin doesn't need to make every speech to determine intent, standings, and policies of the Russian government. He has an army of paid spokesmen and women who will do that for him who are vetted and willing to do his bidding. Can we ignore what Little red lying hood said? What about KJP? Do they not have standing to speak and are given a platform?

Quoted:

An opinion piece by a media hack is not the same as the "Russian government claiming victory."

He's hardly a media hack. He's a paid (by the Russian Gov) spokesman for the Russian government working for a state-owned news agency. That's not a media hack. Is KJP a media hack? Was little red lying hood a media hack? It's not correct to say what you said.

Quoted:
But I guess you're desperate enough to make ridiculous claims.

It's not ridiculous to take Russian government spokesmen at their word when they write an article and set it to auto-public in the face of an anticipated swift Russian victory.

Quoted:
Why? There are plenty of valid criticisms of Russia.

Like declaring victory on day 2 of a war, retracting it because it is not going the way you planned, and then denying it ever existed while on day 576 you lose a Kilo sub (300 million) a landing ship, and a dry dock and then have you fleet headquarters struck and the admirals waxed?

Quoted:
Use them..........not bullshit.

Those are valid reason to criticize Russia.

Posted: 9/24/2023 10:57:09 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:

Putin doesn't need to make every speech to determine intent, standings, and policies of the Russian government. He has an army of paid spokesmen and women who will do that for him who are vetted and willing to do his bidding. Can we ignore what Little red lying hood said? What about KJP? Do they not have standing to speak and are given a platform?

He's hardly a media hack. He's a paid (by the Russian Gov) spokesman for the Russian government working for a state-owned news agency. That's not a media hack. Is KJP a media hack? Was little red lying hood a media hack? It's not correct to say what you said.

It's not ridiculous to take Russian government spokesmen at their word when they write an article and set it to auto-public in the face of an anticipated swift Russian victory.

Like declaring victory on day 2 of a war, retracting it because it is not going the way you planned, and then denying it ever existed while on day 576 you lose a Kilo sub (300 million) a landing ship, and a dry dock and then have you fleet headquarters struck and the admirals waxed?

Those are valid reason to criticize Russia.