User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 11:19:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When do you predict they will completely encircle them? What's your estimate? Over/under?  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It really seems to bother you that Ukraine is advancing and Russia is retreating, however slowly. The latest hilarity is the claim that Russia is going to execute some kind of enveloping action on the salient Ukraine created - through their own minefields apparently? How does that work? Meanwhile it looks like Ukraine can strike targets in Sevastopol pretty much at will now. Yeah this is a long way from over but it's going badly for Russia. They are losing. Their only real actual hope is that friends of Russia persuade the US to lie down and stop fucking them. That doesn't bother me at all. The lies bother me. I'm not a huge fan of being the recipient of selective IO, and it isn't working well for Ukraine either. You do realize a narrow salient is a great killbox for fires right? They are either willfully ignoring just how bad that situation is strategically or they just plain have no clue. I'm leaning towards the later When do you predict they will completely encircle them? What's your estimate? Over/under? I am sure the Russians are working hard to breach that minefield 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 11:55:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When do you predict they will completely encircle them? What's your estimate? Over/under? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It really seems to bother you that Ukraine is advancing and Russia is retreating, however slowly. The latest hilarity is the claim that Russia is going to execute some kind of enveloping action on the salient Ukraine created - through their own minefields apparently? How does that work? Meanwhile it looks like Ukraine can strike targets in Sevastopol pretty much at will now. Yeah this is a long way from over but it's going badly for Russia. They are losing. Their only real actual hope is that friends of Russia persuade the US to lie down and stop fucking them. That doesn't bother me at all. The lies bother me. I'm not a huge fan of being the recipient of selective IO, and it isn't working well for Ukraine either. You do realize a narrow salient is a great killbox for fires right? They are either willfully ignoring just how bad that situation is strategically or they just plain have no clue. I'm leaning towards the later When do you predict they will completely encircle them? What's your estimate? Over/under? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 12:00:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How's your dead Russian Admiral? He's alive according to CNN. How's the Uke credibility? :D |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 12:06:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's alive according to CNN. How's the Uke credibility? :D Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How's your dead Russian Admiral? He's alive according to CNN. How's the Uke credibility? :D Not the first time they claimed something or someone was destroyed when it wasn't |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 12:08:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man, are you guys still going at it? What a waste... That's how all these other Ukraine threads go - they devolve into endless purse-swinging. The same people say the same crap and try to "gotcha" each other. Pearls are clutched, straw men brutally wrecked, valiant ad hominems lobbed, Scotsmen are judged for relative Scottishness, goalposts are narrowed or moved, on and on. Pages of dreck. This thread did not improve for the loss of Screechjet and Abakan or whomever that was. It's still a bunch of mutual whinging with very little substance or value on either side, IMO. And the usual suspects just keep going and going going. And since this thread, like the others, is all noise, I don't feel bad about making a post that's likewise all noise and no substance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 12:19:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's how all these other Ukraine threads go - they devolve into endless purse-swinging. The same people say the same crap and try to "gotcha" each other. Pearls are clutched, straw men brutally wrecked, valiant ad hominems lobbed, Scotsmen are judged for relative Scottishness, goalposts are narrowed or moved, on and on. Pages of dreck. This thread did not improve for the loss of Screechjet and Abakan or whomever that was. It's still a bunch of mutual whinging with very little substance or value on either side, IMO. And the usual suspects just keep going and going going. And since this thread, like the others, is all noise, I don't feel bad about making a post that's likewise all noise and no substance. Yes, and winter is coming so there will be even less news to argue about. I plan to take a long nap. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 12:20:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How's your dead Russian Admiral? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It really seems to bother you that Ukraine is advancing and Russia is retreating, however slowly. The latest hilarity is the claim that Russia is going to execute some kind of enveloping action on the salient Ukraine created - through their own minefields apparently? How does that work? Meanwhile it looks like Ukraine can strike targets in Sevastopol pretty much at will now. Yeah this is a long way from over but it's going badly for Russia. They are losing. Their only real actual hope is that friends of Russia persuade the US to lie down and stop fucking them. That doesn't bother me at all. The lies bother me. I'm not a huge fan of being the recipient of selective IO, and it isn't working well for Ukraine either. You do realize a narrow salient is a great killbox for fires right? They are either willfully ignoring just how bad that situation is strategically or they just plain have no clue. I'm leaning towards the later When do you predict they will completely encircle them? What's your estimate? Over/under? I don't know. I don't trust single sources that say one way or another until confirmed by multiple sources, so I'm not a good person to ask on that. Again, you are making the claim that the Russians are encircling the UAF. When will that happen? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 12:25:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, you are making the claim that the Russians are encircling the UAF. When will that happen? That is determined by the Ukes. When the Ukes venture far enough into the trap.........it will snap on them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 12:25:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How's your dead Russian Admiral? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It really seems to bother you that Ukraine is advancing and Russia is retreating, however slowly. The latest hilarity is the claim that Russia is going to execute some kind of enveloping action on the salient Ukraine created - through their own minefields apparently? How does that work? Meanwhile it looks like Ukraine can strike targets in Sevastopol pretty much at will now. Yeah this is a long way from over but it's going badly for Russia. They are losing. Their only real actual hope is that friends of Russia persuade the US to lie down and stop fucking them. That doesn't bother me at all. The lies bother me. I'm not a huge fan of being the recipient of selective IO, and it isn't working well for Ukraine either. You do realize a narrow salient is a great killbox for fires right? They are either willfully ignoring just how bad that situation is strategically or they just plain have no clue. I'm leaning towards the later When do you predict they will completely encircle them? What's your estimate? Over/under? Minor damage. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 12:29:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is determined by the Ukes. When the Ukes venture far enough into the trap.........it will snap on them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Again, you are making the claim that the Russians are encircling the UAF. When will that happen? That is determined by the Ukes. When the Ukes venture far enough into the trap.........it will snap on them. So the UAF isn't actually making slow forward progress there, rather it's all just a clever trap set by the Russians? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 12:47:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the UAF isn't actually making slow forward progress there, rather it's all just a clever trap set by the Russians? Putin has obviously studied Ali. It's the old Rope-a-Dope all over again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUrZp-rWOgU |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 1:58:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: None of them seem to be bothered by the reported Russian movements to encircle that salient that has been reported by their favorite maps source. They are either willfully ignoring just how bad that situation is strategically or they just plain have no clue. I'm leaning towards the later When will Russia complete this encirclement? @daoliver924 |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 2:22:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Minor damage. It buffed out. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 2:23:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When will Russia complete this encirclement? As I said........when the Ukes are enticed far enough into the trap. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 2:34:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As I said........when the Ukes are enticed far enough into the trap. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When will Russia complete this encirclement? As I said........when the Ukes are enticed far enough into the trap. How is Russia planning to deal with their huge minefield, which is now on the left and right flank of the salient? Just go crazy Ivan and motor through? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 3:07:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is Russia planning to deal with their huge minefield, which is now on the left and right flank of the salient? Just go crazy Ivan and motor through? No. They have maps. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 3:25:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. They have maps. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How is Russia planning to deal with their huge minefield, which is now on the left and right flank of the salient? Just go crazy Ivan and motor through? No. They have maps. Boy, are they clever. How far are the Russians going to keep retreating to the trick the UAF into thinking that they are making progress? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 4:31:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Boy, are they clever. How far are the Russians going to keep retreating to the trick the UAF into thinking that they are making progress? It's a hard decision. You don't want to get greedy and yet you don't want to kill them unless and until you have a sizable number. I can't speak for the Russians but I have to admire the application of Muhammad Ali's Rope-a-Dope tactic to modern warfare. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2023 9:13:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope: “Senator Rand Paul single-handedly blocked the passage of a new aid package to Ukraine worth around $40 billion on Thursday, as he insisted an inspector general oversee U.S. spending in the country as it fights a Russian invasion. The Kentucky Republican said that Ukraine could not be saved by "dooming the U.S. economy" and cited high gas prices, food prices and inflation generally during remarks on the Senate floor.” https://www.newsweek.com/rand-paul-explains-why-single-handedly-blocked-40bn-ukraine-aid-russia-senate-1706288 He may be politically wrong but technically correct. The real problem with foreign aid - to Ukraine and anyone else - is that the Fed gov does not have the power to generate fiat money out of thin air and then give it away. The Fed gov has the power to borrow money. However, borrowing money means borrowing a pre-existing specie currency. The founding fathers differentiated between the power to borrow and the power to emit bills of credit - these are two different things. I am for supporting Ukraine but not under this established paradigm The entire FedReserveSystem is a corrupt institution and has to be replaced by a real money system. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2023 7:05:47 AM EDT
[#20]
After seeing House bills and Senate CR bill, it’s looking bad for Ukraine moving forward. Even if Semate proposal got House buy in which it won’t, that’s much less aid than Ukrainians have received since the start of the war. Between air defense issues, F-16s trickling in next year and less than 30 days {Pentagon assessment} to reach Tokmak Ukraine’s military currently stated success measure goal {they’ll continue with dismounted infantry but that’s unlikely to make gains in the mud season imo} this portends a very difficult future for Kiev given 2024 US elections in less than 4 months.
https://kyivindependent.com/looming-u-s-shutdown-threatens-ukraine-aid/  Attached Filehttps://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/09/27/government-shutdown-ukraine-aid-house/  Attached File Attached Filehttps://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/28/kevin-mccarthy-ukraine-aid-pentagon-bill-00118723  Attached File Attached Filehttps://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/04/europe/uk-nato-ukraine-war-ammunition-intl-hnk-ml/index.html  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2023 7:16:28 AM EDT
[#21]
We can print more money but eventually Ukraine is going to run out of soldiers.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2023 7:44:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As I said........when the Ukes are enticed far enough into the trap. Quote HistoryQuoted: As I said........when the Ukes are enticed far enough into the trap. When they reach the coast, perhaps? Quoted: We can print more money but eventually Ukraine is going to run out of soldiers. Pro-Russians have been saying Ukraine is running out of soldiers since the early days of the war. That hasn't happened. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2023 10:22:48 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pro-Russians have been saying Ukraine is running out of soldiers since the early days of the war. That hasn't happened. I haven't heard anybody say Ukraine is running out of soldiers. Some have said that might be a problem for them in the future. I haven't seen any "pro-Russians" here. I have seen folks say that Russia will inevitably win the war.........that is just facing reality, not being a supporter of Russia. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2023 10:26:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't heard anybody say Ukraine is running out of soldiers. Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't heard anybody say Ukraine is running out of soldiers. Plenty of pro Russians here have been saying that. It’s well documented and is a Russian talking point. You’ve repeated plenty of Russian talking points in this thread and you’re acting like you’ve never heard the “hurr durr west is fighting to the last Ukrainian” before? Interesting. Quoted: Some have said that might be a problem for them in the future They will be free and not under Russian bondage Quoted: I haven't seen any "pro-Russians" here. There are quite a few. You may deny seeing them but they do exist. Quoted: I have seen folks say that Russia will inevitably win the war.........that is just facing reality, not being a supporter of Russia. Russia is on day 581 of their 2 day land war in a quagmire that just cost them a sizable chunk of their Black Sea fleet and with Ukraine making more and more gains. They’re still not any closer to Kyiv. Still not any closer to taking Zelenskyy. And certainly not taking even Kherson or Odesa. Russian Allies are being defeated in an actual lightning war (see, Nagorno-Karabakh) and the CSTO is powerless. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2023 11:02:00 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia is on day 581 of their 2 day land war in a quagmire that just cost them a sizable chunk of their Black Sea fleet and with Ukraine making more and more gains. LOL! There are trillions of dollars in the oil and gas reserves under the Black Sea. That will buy a hundred fleets for Russia once Ukraine is pacified. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2023 11:11:28 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “One side” have been saying “the other side” is running out of soldiers since the early days of the war. That hasn't happened. The fucking irony of that statement now being used by ukebros to invalidate others. Why am I not surprised. What about missiles, fuel, tanks, food, money, blah, blah, blah. Yeah that sure panned out too lol. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2023 11:18:40 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL! There are trillions of dollars in the oil and gas reserves under the Black Sea. That will buy a hundred fleets for Russia once Ukraine is pacified. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/29/2023 12:59:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like how Poland was amirite? No. Poland is a false comparison. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/29/2023 2:19:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plenty of pro Russians here have been saying that. It’s well documented and is a Russian talking point. You’ve repeated plenty of Russian talking points in this thread and you’re acting like you’ve never heard the “hurr durr west is fighting to the last Ukrainian” before? Interesting. They will be free and not under Russian bondage There are quite a few. You may deny seeing them but they do exist. Russia is on day 581 of their 2 day land war in a quagmire that just cost them a sizable chunk of their Black Sea fleet and with Ukraine making more and more gains. They’re still not any closer to Kyiv. Still not any closer to taking Zelenskyy. And certainly not taking even Kherson or Odesa. Russian Allies are being defeated in an actual lightning war (see, Nagorno-Karabakh) and the CSTO is powerless. “Still not any closer to taking Zelenskyy.” That is definitely not true. Any peace plan is going to require a regime change. I would say that Russia is closer to achieving that then the Ukrainians are at expelling the Russians. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2023 11:49:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How's your dead Russian Admiral? He is apparently doing better than the fleet he commanded… One has a Weekend at Bernie’s vibe, the other is mostly at the bottom of the Black Sea. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2023 11:53:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL! There are trillions of dollars in the oil and gas reserves under the Black Sea. That will buy a hundred fleets for Russia once Ukraine is pacified. Pacified? Interesting choice of words. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2023 1:12:52 AM EDT
[#32]
It is so strange that a select few here literally tie their own egos to Ukraine success and loss. They can't even handle something not going well for Ukraine. Their major summer offensive has been an absolute failure because Russia sucks at a lot of things, but digging in on defense doesn't appear to be one of them.
And based upon that truth, they will consider me a Putin supporter. It's honestly amazing and I can't quite describe how insane their mindset is. So they'll continue watching from thousands of miles away cheerleading thousands more dead for nothing. Maybe even buying some old tank parts as war trophies to convince themselves they're part of the cause and helping. It is truly, truly pathetic behavior. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2023 1:21:52 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is so strange that a select few here literally tie their own egos to Ukraine success and loss. They can't even handle something not going well for Ukraine. Their major summer offensive has been an absolute failure because Russia sucks at a lot of things, but digging in on defense doesn't appear to be one of them. And based upon that truth, they will consider me a Putin supporter. It's honestly amazing and I can't quite describe how insane their mindset is. So they'll continue watching from thousands of miles away cheerleading thousands more dead for nothing. Maybe even buying some old tank parts as war trophies to convince themselves they're part of the cause and helping. It is truly, truly pathetic behavior. I’m not sure what is more pathetic… Your lack of empathy, or your lack of knowledge on the subject. I hope you didn’t pay for your schooling. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2023 8:27:58 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not sure what is more pathetic… Your lack of empathy, or your lack of knowledge on the subject. I hope you didn’t pay for your schooling. African children are forced into slavery by rebel groups, forced to learn guerilla warfare, and forced to fight to the death against rival groups in multiple countries throughout the continent. These groups regularly commit war crimes. Do you believe the United States should intervene? And if not why do you lack empathy for these kids? You're comment on empathy is retarded. We're not going to war with all the evil in the world. We physically can't. But to get back on track. Ukraine will not retake Crimea or any substantial amount of occupied territory. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2023 9:25:13 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is so strange that a select few here literally tie their own egos to Ukraine success and loss. They can't even handle something not going well for Ukraine. Their major summer offensive has been an absolute failure because Russia sucks at a lot of things, but digging in on defense doesn't appear to be one of them. And based upon that truth, they will consider me a Putin supporter. It's honestly amazing and I can't quite describe how insane their mindset is. So they'll continue watching from thousands of miles away cheerleading thousands more dead for nothing. Maybe even buying some old tank parts as war trophies to convince themselves they're part of the cause and helping. It is truly, truly pathetic behavior. I see that as an incorrect interpretation of motives - at least as far as what I am "cheering" for. You're quite right that Russia has done a great job digging in (just as the Ukrainians were doing when the shoe was on the other foot), but "nothing" is not the desired outcome. Ukraine can't outright win IMO, but they can cause enough pain for Russia that they get some major concessions. Whether that means they move the borders back to what they looked like at the start of the war - I don't know. I do think that each side still has a lot to win or lose. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/4/2023 6:51:54 AM EDT
[#36]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/4/2023 11:33:00 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryI'm pretty sure this has been prognosticated for a long time and isn't exactly news - especially now that the |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/4/2023 2:45:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm pretty sure this has been prognosticated for a long time and isn't exactly news - especially now that the If you think 1.5 years is a long time.........you're thinking like an American. Immediate gratification is a Western construct. Putin knows it will take 25 to 50 years to pacify Ukraine. There will be terrorist activity against the new Russian territories for many years. That's reality. That's the way it always goes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/4/2023 3:00:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not sure what is more pathetic… Your lack of empathy, or your lack of knowledge on the subject. I hope you didn’t pay for your schooling. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is so strange that a select few here literally tie their own egos to Ukraine success and loss. They can't even handle something not going well for Ukraine. Their major summer offensive has been an absolute failure because Russia sucks at a lot of things, but digging in on defense doesn't appear to be one of them. And based upon that truth, they will consider me a Putin supporter. It's honestly amazing and I can't quite describe how insane their mindset is. So they'll continue watching from thousands of miles away cheerleading thousands more dead for nothing. Maybe even buying some old tank parts as war trophies to convince themselves they're part of the cause and helping. It is truly, truly pathetic behavior. I’m not sure what is more pathetic… Your lack of empathy, or your lack of knowledge on the subject. I hope you didn’t pay for your schooling. The world gives ZF about your empathy. Might makes right in 90% of the world. Read a book.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/4/2023 3:36:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm pretty sure this has been prognosticated for a long time and isn't exactly news - especially now that the General public is rarely in tune with this kind of stuff. I started hearing that forever war mantra in 2008 and the US is still in Iraq which I’m sure most of GD is unaware of. Everyone everywhere wants a desert storm in the modern age, past history we had 100 year wars, 30 year wars, crusades that last centuries and occupations that lasted 1,000 years from 111 BC to 938 AD for China’s occupation of Vietnam. Eastern Europeans will probably have more fortitude than most Americans but with their economy in shambles and insufficient air defense it’s going to get rough should the future US budgets have little to no aid carry on like this latest one, which I suspect it will. Ukraine has already lost somewhere between 8 to 13 million citizens who fled or fall under Russian area control. That’s a huge country with a birth rate lower than Russia that all the Ukie Bros keep bringing up and now it’s likely to lose 1/3 of its population at a time Europeans are expressing less support for refugees. https://www.npr.org/2023/10/04/1203685361/biden-says-hes-worried-about-ukraine-aid-he-plans-to-give-a-major-address-about-  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/4/2023 7:35:44 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: General public is rarely in tune with this kind of stuff. I started hearing that forever war mantra in 2008 and the US is still in Iraq which I’m sure most of GD is unaware of. Everyone everywhere wants a desert storm in the modern age, past history we had 100 year wars, 30 year wars, crusades that last centuries and occupations that lasted 1,000 years from 111 BC to 938 AD for China’s occupation of Vietnam. Eastern Europeans will probably have more fortitude than most Americans but with their economy in shambles and insufficient air defense it’s going to get rough should the future US budgets have little to no aid carry on like this latest one, which I suspect it will. Ukraine has already lost somewhere between 8 to 13 million citizens who fled or fall under Russian area control. That’s a huge country with a birth rate lower than Russia that all the Ukie Bros keep bringing up and now it’s likely to lose 1/3 of its population at a time Europeans are expressing less support for refugees. https://www.npr.org/2023/10/04/1203685361/biden-says-hes-worried-about-ukraine-aid-he-plans-to-give-a-major-address-about- https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_3406_jpeg-2977781.JPG FJB |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/4/2023 7:46:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FJB I’m not sure if he has an October surprise or he’s bluffing in finding aid without Congress but will find out soon enough |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/4/2023 7:59:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Ukraine will definitely have a tough time rebuilding assuming they get to keep any of their country intact once this is all over with. The same dismal birthrate as Russia, and a country in ruins, vast swaths of the population refugees in other countries. What a crappy situation...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2023 12:05:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Not really sure how people don't see the writing on the wall.
All Russia has to do is run out the clock. They don't need to take ground...they just need to wait until the US finally cuts off the money. Europe has effectively limited funds to the point that the Ukr gov isn't able to steal enough to make it worth it. In about 8-12 months, there will be a MAJOR US election and Ukr will fall off the radar as it is not a happy ending story. It is a pit where we dumped money while our own country suffered. Thats an embarressment to the politicians and will be used by the Right to demonstrate to the public that the left cares more about Ukr money laundering dictators than about its borders or poor people. When that narrative sinks in and the pollsters give feedback to the left that they are losing votes...Ukr money goes away. Once the money goes away, the Ukr leadership will run out on private jets full of money and be gone into Dubai or similar, claiming that we abandoned them...much like a wife blaming her husband for why she cheated. All Russia has to do is wait about 8 months. That end is inevitable at this point. And now...for the third time...America loses a war. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2023 1:20:54 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine will definitely have a tough time rebuilding assuming they get to keep any of their country intact once this is all over with. The same dismal birthrate as Russia, and a country in ruins, vast swaths of the population refugees in other countries. What a crappy situation... That seems to be the trend line but nobody can predict the future. I could be wrong and some event or development changes the situation and Ukraine has a brighter future. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/10/05/russia-war-eu-says-europe-cannot-replace-us-support-to-ukraine.html  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2023 2:09:37 PM EDT
[#46]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2023 2:24:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Follow the money: Defense Stocks Fall As Paralyzed House With No Speaker Puts US Ukraine Aid At Risk
And if you want to know what Ukraine's chances of winning are, watch this interview with a PMC who was on the ground:  Why Are the Russians So Bad? War Stories from Ukraine with Neil Vermillion It's a war of attrition... and eventually the clock will run out for Ukraine. It's clear that the military industrial complex is profiting from this war, as they always have (War is a Racket)... and they simply don't care how many Ukrainians die. They profit immensely from Cold War 2.0, while putting the entire world at risk of a nuclear conflict. The only hope for Ukraine is negotiation, but clearly Victoria Nuland will not allow her puppet Z to negotiate. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2023 2:35:32 PM EDT
[#48]
Once you come to grips with the fact that victory isn't being pursued by NATO and that its sole objective is for Russia to remain embroiled in a war of attrition that provides supplemental funding to the military industrial complex to replace that lost after the GWOT, you'll understand everything about this conflict.
NATO is prepared to fight Russia right down to the last Ukrainian. Tens of thousands of people are going to die and scores more will be wounded over the next few years only to arrive at a negotiated settlement that could be reached today with border lines being roughly drawn where the front lines are today. Ukraine doesn't have the military leadership or the resources necessary to retake all territory lost since 2014. If that's the metric for "victory" than there will be no "victory." |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2023 3:00:30 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really sure how people don't see the writing on the wall. All Russia has to do is run out the clock. They don't need to take ground...they just need to wait until the US finally cuts off the money. Europe has effectively limited funds to the point that the Ukr gov isn't able to steal enough to make it worth it. In about 8-12 months, there will be a MAJOR US election and Ukr will fall off the radar as it is not a happy ending story. It is a pit where we dumped money while our own country suffered. Thats an embarressment to the politicians and will be used by the Right to demonstrate to the public that the left cares more about Ukr money laundering dictators than about its borders or poor people. When that narrative sinks in and the pollsters give feedback to the left that they are losing votes...Ukr money goes away. Once the money goes away, the Ukr leadership will run out on private jets full of money and be gone into Dubai or similar, claiming that we abandoned them...much like a wife blaming her husband for why she cheated. All Russia has to do is wait about 8 months. That end is inevitable at this point. And now...for the third time...America loses a war. Yeah, I don't know about the Republicans really highlighting Ukr money outside of the primaries. Keep in mind the GOP still depends a lot on campaign donations from the military industrial complex. They're going to try to tread a fine line between upsetting those donors and appeasing the increasingly skeptical antiestablishment GOP voters. Republicans really need to come together and formulate a plan for how they want to handle Ukraine. I think both sides are going to have to come up with a sort of compromise. A good start would be to get the Republican controlled house to appoint an Auditor General like the Democrats did for Afghanistan. Also, the GOP has got to lay out a clear plan with clear metrics that shows a path to peace or a point where the USA will at least re-evaluate its financial commitment. This Toby Keith "fight for freedom" propaganda/justification doesn't work after they squandered their credibility with the rank and file Republican voters over the past 20+ years of GWOT. The NEOCON hawks in the GOP are going to have come to grips with the fact that this isn't 2007. Personally, I feel that Republicans could win if they promised peace and prosperity, but again they're not going to upset their donor class by pledging to withdraw U.S. support for Ukraine. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/5/2023 10:49:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see that as an incorrect interpretation of motives - at least as far as what I am "cheering" for. You're quite right that Russia has done a great job digging in (just as the Ukrainians were doing when the shoe was on the other foot), but "nothing" is not the desired outcome. Ukraine can't outright win IMO, but they can cause enough pain for Russia that they get some major concessions. Whether that means they move the borders back to what they looked like at the start of the war - I don't know. I do think that each side still has a lot to win or lose. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is so strange that a select few here literally tie their own egos to Ukraine success and loss. They can't even handle something not going well for Ukraine. Their major summer offensive has been an absolute failure because Russia sucks at a lot of things, but digging in on defense doesn't appear to be one of them. And based upon that truth, they will consider me a Putin supporter. It's honestly amazing and I can't quite describe how insane their mindset is. So they'll continue watching from thousands of miles away cheerleading thousands more dead for nothing. Maybe even buying some old tank parts as war trophies to convince themselves they're part of the cause and helping. It is truly, truly pathetic behavior. I see that as an incorrect interpretation of motives - at least as far as what I am "cheering" for. You're quite right that Russia has done a great job digging in (just as the Ukrainians were doing when the shoe was on the other foot), but "nothing" is not the desired outcome. Ukraine can't outright win IMO, but they can cause enough pain for Russia that they get some major concessions. Whether that means they move the borders back to what they looked like at the start of the war - I don't know. I do think that each side still has a lot to win or lose. Fair enough sir. It's just so sad that so many are dying for a few yards here and there. Just reminds me of the meat grinder of WW1. We're in 2023 and still killing each other in trenches like savages. Just sad all around. I can't imagine Crimea changes hands though, full stop I will to continue the opinion that the main Ukraine war thread is a ridiculous echo chamber where dissent is quickly removed. Usually by claims of being off topic even though easily half of the posters don't post news but give their own ridiculous opinions constantly. But as long as you toe the party lines you're fine. I participated in it early in the war but it was overtaken by the vocal minority pretty quickly. Just check any GD Ukraine poll. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File
Attached File