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Posted: 10/5/2023 11:41:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FJB But he's Ukraines savior. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 10:17:34 AM EDT
[#2]
Don't worry, Twitter user N$T_SBU did a spectral analysis of amateur video that just so happened to make it through the media blackout and he detected trace signatures of JP8 4 meters past a final defensive mine belt we don't really know the exact location of. This indicates that Ukrainian Brigades have broken through and should be expected in Melitopol any minute. I'll post 3 pages of uncorroborated Twitter analysis as proof later. If nothing happens for the next several weeks we will just pretend we didn't say anything.
Also, in a stunning and brave move the western allies are pressuring South Korea and India for artillery munitions even though there is no problem with supply or production whatsoever. Much unlike the Russians, who are currently groveling at North Korea's feet begging for artillery rounds so that their soldiers can boil and eat them before they starve to death. I'm honestly just intrigued and amazed by the caliber of routine reporting we get to experience here, especially considering the fact that the people doing it have also declared themselves the arbiters of disinformation and truth. It's been taught for a long time that the "emperor has no clothes" model for warfighting is typically not successful, but apparently a lot of people know better. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 10:22:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't worry, Twitter user N$T_SBU did a spectral analysis of amateur video that just so happened to make it through the media blackout and he detected trace signatures of JP8 4 meters past a final defensive mine belt we don't really know the exact location of. This indicates that Ukrainian Brigades have broken through and should be expected in Melitopol any minute. I'll post 3 pages of uncorroborated Twitter analysis as proof later. If nothing happens for the next several weeks we will just pretend we didn't say anything. Also, in a stunning and brave move the western allies are pressuring South Korea and India for artillery munitions even though there is no problem with supply or production whatsoever. Much unlike the Russians, who are currently groveling at North Korea's feet begging for artillery rounds so that their soldiers can boil and eat them before they starve to death. I'm honestly just intrigued and amazed by the caliber of routine reporting we get to experience here, especially considering the fact that the people doing it have also declared themselves the arbiters of disinformation and truth. It's been taught for a long time that the "emperor has no clothes" model for warfighting is typically not successful, but apparently a lot of people know better.  |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 10:24:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't worry, Twitter user N$T_SBU did a spectral analysis of amateur video that just so happened to make it through the media blackout and he detected trace signatures of JP8 4 meters past a final defensive mine belt we don't really know the exact location of. This indicates that Ukrainian Brigades have broken through and should be expected in Melitopol any minute. I'll post 3 pages of uncorroborated Twitter analysis as proof later. If nothing happens for the next several weeks we will just pretend we didn't say anything. Also, in a stunning and brave move the western allies are pressuring South Korea and India for artillery munitions even though there is no problem with supply or production whatsoever. Much unlike the Russians, who are currently groveling at North Korea's feet begging for artillery rounds so that their soldiers can boil and eat them before they starve to death. I'm honestly just intrigued and amazed by the caliber of routine reporting we get to experience here, especially considering the fact that the people doing it have also declared themselves the arbiters of disinformation and truth. It's been taught for a long time that the "emperor has no clothes" model for warfighting is typically not successful, but apparently a lot of people know better. When do the UKRBros and UKR patriots march on Moscow???? The breakout is imminent and victory certain, Slaba-UooooKraine. 
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Posted: 10/6/2023 11:13:24 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't worry, Twitter user N$T_SBU did a spectral analysis of amateur video that just so happened to make it through the media blackout and he detected trace signatures of JP8 4 meters past a final defensive mine belt we don't really know the exact location of. This indicates that Ukrainian Brigades have broken through and should be expected in Melitopol any minute. I'll post 3 pages of uncorroborated Twitter analysis as proof later. If nothing happens for the next several weeks we will just pretend we didn't say anything. Also, in a stunning and brave move the western allies are pressuring South Korea and India for artillery munitions even though there is no problem with supply or production whatsoever. Much unlike the Russians, who are currently groveling at North Korea's feet begging for artillery rounds so that their soldiers can boil and eat them before they starve to death.  Posts like this almost make it worth the Ukebros ruining this forum. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 11:32:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't worry, Twitter user N$T_SBU did a spectral analysis of amateur video that just so happened to make it through the media blackout and he detected trace signatures of JP8 4 meters past a final defensive mine belt we don't really know the exact location of. This indicates that Ukrainian Brigades have broken through and should be expected in Melitopol any minute. I'll post 3 pages of uncorroborated Twitter analysis as proof later. If nothing happens for the next several weeks we will just pretend we didn't say anything. Also, in a stunning and brave move the western allies are pressuring South Korea and India for artillery munitions even though there is no problem with supply or production whatsoever. Much unlike the Russians, who are currently groveling at North Korea's feet begging for artillery rounds so that their soldiers can boil and eat them before they starve to death. I'm honestly just intrigued and amazed by the caliber of routine reporting we get to experience here, especially considering the fact that the people doing it have also declared themselves the arbiters of disinformation and truth. It's been taught for a long time that the "emperor has no clothes" model for warfighting is typically not successful, but apparently a lot of people know better. You know, you could have made a lot less snarky of a post, but your intention appears to be to continue to sow discord. Many, many of your posts were of a very technical nature and I enjoyed them, but this is no different than the other people on both sides who aren't interested in debate, only to throw fuel on the fire. You also completely ignore the almost daily pro-Russian posts (such as this one) that continuously denigrate the Ukrainian side and downplay Ukrainian successes as if those don't exist, and that only the pro-Ukrainian side has a voice in the forum. It is painfully obvious to everyone that the Ukrainian counteroffensive is making daily progress in METERS, nothing more. The war has been at a virtual stalemate for almost a year, with only the role of attacker and defender changing to some degree. I have continued to assert that Ukraine can't win the war outright and is hoping that Russia's will collapses due to damage to Russian morale and to the Russian economy. Russia is hoping that the West's support for Ukraine will falter so they can mop up the Ukrainian army. It is increasingly looking likely that the Russian position is the more more likely one as witnessed in the recent Congressional upheaval and fight for Ukraine funding. In the meantime, it might be worthwhile to point out that not everyone that support the Ukrainian effort is a dedicated "Ukebro" and not everyone that opposes additional funding for Ukraine is a "Putin puffer". |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 11:45:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know, you could have made a lot less snarky of a post, but your intention appears to be to continue to sow discord. Many, many of your posts were of a very technical nature and I enjoyed them, but this is no different than the other people on both sides who aren't interested in debate, only to throw fuel on the fire. You also completely ignore the almost daily pro-Russian posts (such as this one) that continuously denigrate the Ukrainian side and downplay Ukrainian successes as if those don't exist, and that only the pro-Ukrainian side has a voice in the forum. It is painfully obvious to everyone that the Ukrainian counteroffensive is making daily progress in METERS, nothing more. The war has been at a virtual stalemate for almost a year, with only the role of attacker and defender changing to some degree. I have continued to assert that Ukraine can't win the war outright and is hoping that Russia's will collapses due to damage to Russian morale and to the Russian economy. Russia is hoping that the West's support for Ukraine will falter so they can mop up the Ukrainian army. It is increasingly looking likely that the Russian position is the more more likely one as witnessed in the recent Congressional upheaval and fight for Ukraine funding. In the meantime, it might be worthwhile to point out that not everyone that support the Ukrainian effort is a dedicated "Ukebro" and not everyone that opposes additional funding for Ukraine is a "Putin puffer". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Don't worry, Twitter user N$T_SBU did a spectral analysis of amateur video that just so happened to make it through the media blackout and he detected trace signatures of JP8 4 meters past a final defensive mine belt we don't really know the exact location of. This indicates that Ukrainian Brigades have broken through and should be expected in Melitopol any minute. I'll post 3 pages of uncorroborated Twitter analysis as proof later. If nothing happens for the next several weeks we will just pretend we didn't say anything. Also, in a stunning and brave move the western allies are pressuring South Korea and India for artillery munitions even though there is no problem with supply or production whatsoever. Much unlike the Russians, who are currently groveling at North Korea's feet begging for artillery rounds so that their soldiers can boil and eat them before they starve to death. I'm honestly just intrigued and amazed by the caliber of routine reporting we get to experience here, especially considering the fact that the people doing it have also declared themselves the arbiters of disinformation and truth. It's been taught for a long time that the "emperor has no clothes" model for warfighting is typically not successful, but apparently a lot of people know better. You know, you could have made a lot less snarky of a post, but your intention appears to be to continue to sow discord. Many, many of your posts were of a very technical nature and I enjoyed them, but this is no different than the other people on both sides who aren't interested in debate, only to throw fuel on the fire. You also completely ignore the almost daily pro-Russian posts (such as this one) that continuously denigrate the Ukrainian side and downplay Ukrainian successes as if those don't exist, and that only the pro-Ukrainian side has a voice in the forum. It is painfully obvious to everyone that the Ukrainian counteroffensive is making daily progress in METERS, nothing more. The war has been at a virtual stalemate for almost a year, with only the role of attacker and defender changing to some degree. I have continued to assert that Ukraine can't win the war outright and is hoping that Russia's will collapses due to damage to Russian morale and to the Russian economy. Russia is hoping that the West's support for Ukraine will falter so they can mop up the Ukrainian army. It is increasingly looking likely that the Russian position is the more more likely one as witnessed in the recent Congressional upheaval and fight for Ukraine funding. In the meantime, it might be worthwhile to point out that not everyone that support the Ukrainian effort is a dedicated "Ukebro" and not everyone that opposes additional funding for Ukraine is a "Putin puffer". Now after a couple years of Covidbro-turned-Ukebro forum agitating I know I've finally reached a tolerance-breaking point and my observation lately is I'm not alone. Either way the sowing is done. Now we all get to reap. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 11:49:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Truth is.........Ukraine is running out of EVERYTHING.
And WE are not sending any more. And the Europeans will soon stop sending. Putin knew this from the start. Biden has just finished the greatest waste of tax dollars in American history........(along with the greatest gift to the Military Industrial Complex). Oh yeah.........also the greatest and most tragic waste of Ukrainian lives in history. Ending support for Ukraine is probably the only good thing to come from the Republican civil war in the U.S. House. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 11:55:13 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Truth is.........Ukraine is running out of EVERYTHING. And WE are not sending any more. And the Europeans will soon stop sending. Putin knew this from the start. Biden has just finished the greatest waste of tax dollars in American history........(along with the greatest gift to the Military Industrial Complex). Oh yeah.........also the greatest and most tragic waste of Ukrainian lives in history. Ending support for Ukraine is probably the only good thing to come from the Republican civil war in the U.S. House. You actually think we’re done sending money and weapons to Ukraine? lol |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 12:02:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You actually think we’re done sending money and weapons to Ukraine? lol I just don't see any way it can happen with the U.S. House refusing to allow it. Perhaps you know how it can happen? Please share. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 12:02:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know, you could have made a lot less snarky of a post, but your intention appears to be to continue to sow discord. Many, many of your posts were of a very technical nature and I enjoyed them, but this is no different than the other people on both sides who aren't interested in debate, only to throw fuel on the fire. You also completely ignore the almost daily pro-Russian posts (such as this one) that continuously denigrate the Ukrainian side and downplay Ukrainian successes as if those don't exist, and that only the pro-Ukrainian side has a voice in the forum. It is painfully obvious to everyone that the Ukrainian counteroffensive is making daily progress in METERS, nothing more. The war has been at a virtual stalemate for almost a year, with only the role of attacker and defender changing to some degree. I have continued to assert that Ukraine can't win the war outright and is hoping that Russia's will collapses due to damage to Russian morale and to the Russian economy. Russia is hoping that the West's support for Ukraine will falter so they can mop up the Ukrainian army. It is increasingly looking likely that the Russian position is the more more likely one as witnessed in the recent Congressional upheaval and fight for Ukraine funding. In the meantime, it might be worthwhile to point out that not everyone that support the Ukrainian effort is a dedicated "Ukebro" and not everyone that opposes additional funding for Ukraine is a "Putin puffer". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Don't worry, Twitter user N$T_SBU did a spectral analysis of amateur video that just so happened to make it through the media blackout and he detected trace signatures of JP8 4 meters past a final defensive mine belt we don't really know the exact location of. This indicates that Ukrainian Brigades have broken through and should be expected in Melitopol any minute. I'll post 3 pages of uncorroborated Twitter analysis as proof later. If nothing happens for the next several weeks we will just pretend we didn't say anything. Also, in a stunning and brave move the western allies are pressuring South Korea and India for artillery munitions even though there is no problem with supply or production whatsoever. Much unlike the Russians, who are currently groveling at North Korea's feet begging for artillery rounds so that their soldiers can boil and eat them before they starve to death. I'm honestly just intrigued and amazed by the caliber of routine reporting we get to experience here, especially considering the fact that the people doing it have also declared themselves the arbiters of disinformation and truth. It's been taught for a long time that the "emperor has no clothes" model for warfighting is typically not successful, but apparently a lot of people know better. You know, you could have made a lot less snarky of a post, but your intention appears to be to continue to sow discord. Many, many of your posts were of a very technical nature and I enjoyed them, but this is no different than the other people on both sides who aren't interested in debate, only to throw fuel on the fire. You also completely ignore the almost daily pro-Russian posts (such as this one) that continuously denigrate the Ukrainian side and downplay Ukrainian successes as if those don't exist, and that only the pro-Ukrainian side has a voice in the forum. It is painfully obvious to everyone that the Ukrainian counteroffensive is making daily progress in METERS, nothing more. The war has been at a virtual stalemate for almost a year, with only the role of attacker and defender changing to some degree. I have continued to assert that Ukraine can't win the war outright and is hoping that Russia's will collapses due to damage to Russian morale and to the Russian economy. Russia is hoping that the West's support for Ukraine will falter so they can mop up the Ukrainian army. It is increasingly looking likely that the Russian position is the more more likely one as witnessed in the recent Congressional upheaval and fight for Ukraine funding. In the meantime, it might be worthwhile to point out that not everyone that support the Ukrainian effort is a dedicated "Ukebro" and not everyone that opposes additional funding for Ukraine is a "Putin puffer". No one had the intention of going to war with Russia, to kick Russia out of Ukraine. "The West" was always going to "falter", as you put it. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 12:17:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You actually think we’re done sending money and weapons to Ukraine? lol Quote HistoryQuoted: You actually think we’re done sending money and weapons to Ukraine? lol Well, the radicals who control the U.S. House say no more aid to Ukraine. And according to the White House.........that ends the aid. Deputy Defense Department press secretary Sabrina Singh told reporters Tuesday that the administration has “enough funding authorities to meet Ukraine’s battlefield needs for just a little bit longer, but we need Congress to act to ensure there is no disruption in our support, especially as the department seeks to replenish our stocks.” https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/can-biden-keep-us-aid-flowing-ukraine-gop-chaos-house-rcna118907 |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 12:28:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just don't see any way it can happen with the U.S. House refusing to allow it. Perhaps you know how it can happen? Please share. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/05/biden-state-department-fund-ukraine-00120199 |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 12:35:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryThat is not going to solve the problem. You didn't read the above link. Deputy Defense Department press secretary Sabrina Singh told reporters Tuesday that the administration has “enough funding authorities to meet Ukraine’s battlefield needs for just a little bit longer, but we need Congress to act to ensure there is no disruption in our support, especially as the department seeks to replenish our stocks.” https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/can-biden-keep-us-aid-flowing-ukraine-gop-chaos-house-rcna118907 |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 12:47:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know, you could have made a lot less snarky of a post, but your intention appears to be to continue to sow discord. Many, many of your posts were of a very technical nature and I enjoyed them, but this is no different than the other people on both sides who aren't interested in debate, only to throw fuel on the fire. You also completely ignore the almost daily pro-Russian posts (such as this one) that continuously denigrate the Ukrainian side and downplay Ukrainian successes as if those don't exist, and that only the pro-Ukrainian side has a voice in the forum. It is painfully obvious to everyone that the Ukrainian counteroffensive is making daily progress in METERS, nothing more. The war has been at a virtual stalemate for almost a year, with only the role of attacker and defender changing to some degree. I have continued to assert that Ukraine can't win the war outright and is hoping that Russia's will collapses due to damage to Russian morale and to the Russian economy. Russia is hoping that the West's support for Ukraine will falter so they can mop up the Ukrainian army. It is increasingly looking likely that the Russian position is the more more likely one as witnessed in the recent Congressional upheaval and fight for Ukraine funding. In the meantime, it might be worthwhile to point out that not everyone that support the Ukrainian effort is a dedicated "Ukebro" and not everyone that opposes additional funding for Ukraine is a "Putin puffer". I really don't denigrate or amplify anything. I have pointed out very specific problems for us and for Ukraine, and attempted to correct the record where it is being presented falsely. All of these problems I have been berated and trolled for pointing out, at least until they become mainstream enough that they cannot be ignored by anyone. Was this started as a pro-Russian thread? Maybe. Is it a valid question? Absolutely. I guess it now comes down to the question if this is considered a "pro-Russian" thread based solely on the fact that this question being posed at all is not good for Ukraine? If that is the case, then you are more concerned with protecting the propaganda based narrative versus establishing truth through objectivity. That may explain the disparity between what your position is, and what you think mine is. The Ukrainian IO/IW problem is very tangible, one where the negative effects are consistently being repeated here. Ukraine seems to think that the Soviet model of controlling the narrative is ideal even when contrasted against the fact that the truths are also being broadcast in real time as well. Why is western support faltering? Because people can plainly see three completely different truths being presented, the Ukrainian truth, the Russian truth, and the raw data. The raw data is not aligning with the Ukrainian or Russian truths, but we aren't sending money to Russia, we are sending money to Ukraine. When you are framing the narrative as you being wildly successful and your enemy is completely worthless, yet there are no real results in the raw data....people will eventually notice. Especially when those people are sending lots of money. The Ukrainian counteroffensive is making progress in meters in some places and losing ground in others. It's effectively over for this fighting season and is about to fall back into a deep fires game once again. Meaning the Russians have time to reset and dig in even deeper, and we get to fuel a defensive fires attrition campaign we are vastly on the losing side of. It is absolutely valid to question the policies and strategy that put us in this position. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 12:51:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just don't see any way it can happen with the U.S. House refusing to allow it. Perhaps you know how it can happen? Please share. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You actually think we’re done sending money and weapons to Ukraine? lol I just don't see any way it can happen with the U.S. House refusing to allow it. Perhaps you know how it can happen? Please share. Iran Contra? |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 1:07:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really don't denigrate or amplify anything. I have pointed out very specific problems for us and for Ukraine, and attempted to correct the record where it is being presented falsely. All of these problems I have been berated and trolled for pointing out, at least until they become mainstream enough that they cannot be ignored by anyone. Was this started as a pro-Russian thread? Maybe. Is it a valid question? Absolutely. I guess it now comes down to the question if this is considered a "pro-Russian" thread based solely on the fact that this question being posed at all is not good for Ukraine? If that is the case, then you are more concerned with protecting the propaganda based narrative versus establishing truth through objectivity. That may explain the disparity between what your position is, and what you think mine is. The Ukrainian IO/IW problem is very tangible, one where the negative effects are consistently being repeated here. Ukraine seems to think that the Soviet model of controlling the narrative is ideal even when contrasted against the fact that the truths are also being broadcast in real time as well. Why is western support faltering? Because people can plainly see three completely different truths being presented, the Ukrainian truth, the Russian truth, and the raw data. The raw data is not aligning with the Ukrainian or Russian truths, but we aren't sending money to Russia, we are sending money to Ukraine. When you are framing the narrative as you being wildly successful and your enemy is completely worthless, yet there are no real results in the raw data....people will eventually notice. Especially when those people are sending lots of money. The Ukrainian counteroffensive is making progress in meters in some places and losing ground in others. It's effectively over for this fighting season and is about to fall back into a deep fires game once again. Meaning the Russians have time to reset and dig in even deeper, and we get to fuel a defensive fires attrition campaign we are vastly on the losing side of. It is absolutely valid to question the policies and strategy that put us in this position. That is the kind of post I would have expected. Yes, Ukraine is trying to mold the narrative that they are wildly successful - just as the Russians are doing the same for their audience. And you're also correct in that the fighting season for this year is all but over with. In regards to strategy: The US has indeed thrown its lot into this effort, but what's the answer? Do we cut and run, thus giving the US a massive black eye in terms of credibility? How will that affect China and it's Taiwanese ambitions? Do we keep floundering around with piecemeal weapons shipments and hope for the best? That doesn't seem to be working either. Now that we're in the situation we're in, what's the best outcome for the US and how do we achieve it? I know you have very deep knowledge about certain important aspects of this war, so I would love to hear what is our best possible outcome in your opinion. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 1:08:16 PM EDT
[#18]
2 more Billion
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Posted: 10/6/2023 1:36:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is the kind of post I would have expected. Yes, Ukraine is trying to mold the narrative that they are wildly successful - just as the Russians are doing the same for their audience. And you're also correct in that the fighting season for this year is all but over with. In regards to strategy: The US has indeed thrown its lot into this effort, but what's the answer? Do we cut and run, thus giving the US a massive black eye in terms of credibility? How will that affect China and it's Taiwanese ambitions? Do we keep floundering around with piecemeal weapons shipments and hope for the best? That doesn't seem to be working either. Now that we're in the situation we're in, what's the best outcome for the US and how do we achieve it? I know you have very deep knowledge about certain important aspects of this war, so I would love to hear what is our best possible outcome in your opinion. Well, they could start by truthfully identifying their shortfalls and stop blaming everyone else. Then we could also truthfully identify what exactly they need instead of dropping a Defender Europe 2020 template COA on them. The Russians are focusing the propaganda inward on a population they actually have a modicum of control over through state owned media and telecom. The Ukrainians think they are able to fool the west proper. You speak of credibility, but Ukraine has lost a lot of it, which is inherently married to a loss of external physical and financial support. As far as Chinese ambition, devoting resources away from Chinese deterrence and locking into a multi-year stalemate which is bleeding us dry is pretty much an ideal situation for them. They could care less about our resolve in Ukraine as long as our magazines are empty and economy is in shambles. The end result is that we simply cannot support what they need, which is manpower and air defense. The longer this drags on the more dire that situation becomes. We are critically short on both, and only one is on the table for Ukraine. We are mashing a square peg into a round hole over and over hoping it will work this time. What needs to happen is a full court press on China and Iran with a negotiated armistice in Ukraine. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 1:37:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The discord has been long since sowed by 10 or 20 members who are so obnoxiously pro-Ukraine and so quick and heavy with the "you're a commmmmmmiiiieeeee!" screeching that if they weren't mostly 10+ year accounts I'd truly believe they were reverse-psychology Russian agitprop. Even with the account ages I wonder. Now after a couple years of Covidbro-turned-Ukebro forum agitating I know I've finally reached a tolerance-breaking point and my observation lately is I'm not alone. Either way the sowing is done. Now we all get to reap. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Don't worry, Twitter user N$T_SBU did a spectral analysis of amateur video that just so happened to make it through the media blackout and he detected trace signatures of JP8 4 meters past a final defensive mine belt we don't really know the exact location of. This indicates that Ukrainian Brigades have broken through and should be expected in Melitopol any minute. I'll post 3 pages of uncorroborated Twitter analysis as proof later. If nothing happens for the next several weeks we will just pretend we didn't say anything. Also, in a stunning and brave move the western allies are pressuring South Korea and India for artillery munitions even though there is no problem with supply or production whatsoever. Much unlike the Russians, who are currently groveling at North Korea's feet begging for artillery rounds so that their soldiers can boil and eat them before they starve to death. I'm honestly just intrigued and amazed by the caliber of routine reporting we get to experience here, especially considering the fact that the people doing it have also declared themselves the arbiters of disinformation and truth. It's been taught for a long time that the "emperor has no clothes" model for warfighting is typically not successful, but apparently a lot of people know better. You know, you could have made a lot less snarky of a post, but your intention appears to be to continue to sow discord. Many, many of your posts were of a very technical nature and I enjoyed them, but this is no different than the other people on both sides who aren't interested in debate, only to throw fuel on the fire. You also completely ignore the almost daily pro-Russian posts (such as this one) that continuously denigrate the Ukrainian side and downplay Ukrainian successes as if those don't exist, and that only the pro-Ukrainian side has a voice in the forum. It is painfully obvious to everyone that the Ukrainian counteroffensive is making daily progress in METERS, nothing more. The war has been at a virtual stalemate for almost a year, with only the role of attacker and defender changing to some degree. I have continued to assert that Ukraine can't win the war outright and is hoping that Russia's will collapses due to damage to Russian morale and to the Russian economy. Russia is hoping that the West's support for Ukraine will falter so they can mop up the Ukrainian army. It is increasingly looking likely that the Russian position is the more more likely one as witnessed in the recent Congressional upheaval and fight for Ukraine funding. In the meantime, it might be worthwhile to point out that not everyone that support the Ukrainian effort is a dedicated "Ukebro" and not everyone that opposes additional funding for Ukraine is a "Putin puffer". Now after a couple years of Covidbro-turned-Ukebro forum agitating I know I've finally reached a tolerance-breaking point and my observation lately is I'm not alone. Either way the sowing is done. Now we all get to reap. All of this. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 2:09:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The discord has been long since sowed by 10 or 20 members who are so obnoxiously pro-Ukraine and so quick and heavy with the "you're a commmmmmmiiiieeeee!" screeching that if they weren't mostly 10+ year accounts I'd truly believe they were reverse-psychology Russian agitprop. Even with the account ages I wonder. Now after a couple years of Covidbro-turned-Ukebro forum agitating I know I've finally reached a tolerance-breaking point and my observation lately is I'm not alone. Either way the sowing is done. Now we all get to reap. Are you completely ignoring the anti-Ukrainian side that's been going on for at least that long? Seems like you should condemn them too. No one side is blameless in the GD shenanigans. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 2:11:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, they could start by truthfully identifying their shortfalls and stop blaming everyone else. Then we could also truthfully identify what exactly they need instead of dropping a Defender Europe 2020 template COA on them. The Russians are focusing the propaganda inward on a population they actually have a modicum of control over through state owned media and telecom. The Ukrainians think they are able to fool the west proper. You speak of credibility, but Ukraine has lost a lot of it, which is inherently married to a loss of external physical and financial support. As far as Chinese ambition, devoting resources away from Chinese deterrence and locking into a multi-year stalemate which is bleeding us dry is pretty much an ideal situation for them. They could care less about our resolve in Ukraine as long as our magazines are empty and economy is in shambles. The end result is that we simply cannot support what they need, which is manpower and air defense. The longer this drags on the more dire that situation becomes. We are critically short on both, and only one is on the table for Ukraine. We are mashing a square peg into a round hole over and over hoping it will work this time. What needs to happen is a full court press on China and Iran with a negotiated armistice in Ukraine. So your take is: Screw everyone else, build up inventory for a potential war with China and deal with Iran on the side? Is that a roughly correct paraphrase of what you are saying? ETA: This isn't a setup to some sort of "gotcha", just a question. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 2:33:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Iran Contra? https://www.reuters.com/world/us-readies-new-ukraine-arms-package-despite-tumult-congress-2023-10-06/  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 2:53:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So your take is: Screw everyone else, build up inventory for a potential war with China and deal with Iran on the side? Is that a roughly correct paraphrase of what you are saying? ETA: This isn't a setup to some sort of "gotcha", just a question. No, acknowledge what we can or cannot do for Ukraine and provide the support that we can without assuming major risk on our end. Ultimately push for a brokered armistice sooner than later, as this is not going anywhere anytime soon otherwise. If they don't want to negotiate, Europe needs to take the lead on this in all ways and means. The majority of our resources need to pivot towards China and Iran ASAP. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 2:55:39 PM EDT
[#25]
I think we ran through all of our emergency reserves of weapons and there isn’t much left to send without stripping the cupboards bare. Cutting funding might be a way to blame the Republicans for something that was going to happen anyway. You can’t just magically turn dollars into artillery shells if you don’t have the reserve industrial capacity.
One wonders how much of those NK shells Russia is using might actually be made in China. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 2:59:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you completely ignoring the anti-Ukrainian side that's been going on for at least that long? Seems like you should condemn them too. No one side is blameless in the GD shenanigans. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The discord has been long since sowed by 10 or 20 members who are so obnoxiously pro-Ukraine and so quick and heavy with the "you're a commmmmmmiiiieeeee!" screeching that if they weren't mostly 10+ year accounts I'd truly believe they were reverse-psychology Russian agitprop. Even with the account ages I wonder. Now after a couple years of Covidbro-turned-Ukebro forum agitating I know I've finally reached a tolerance-breaking point and my observation lately is I'm not alone. Either way the sowing is done. Now we all get to reap. Are you completely ignoring the anti-Ukrainian side that's been going on for at least that long? Seems like you should condemn them too. No one side is blameless in the GD shenanigans. From a (formerly) neutral observers objective over here the so-called "commies" are utterly insignicant with respect to negative impact on this forum compared to the Ukebro brigade. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 3:04:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think we ran through all of our emergency reserves of weapons and there isn’t much left to send without stripping the cupboards bare. Cutting funding might be a way to blame the Republicans for something that was going to happen anyway. You can’t just magically turn dollars into artillery shells if you don’t have the reserve industrial capacity. One wonders how much of those NK shells Russia is using might actually be made in China. https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2023/10/ukraine-aid-pool-dwindles-senate-heads-break/390905/  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 3:23:50 PM EDT
[#28]
You can analyze until you’re blue in the face, but, as always, political will becomes the deciding factor. And that will is based upon polling. Take a look at today’s poll in The Hill. The trend line has reached a point in which it’s slipping away from the UkeBros.
There are a couple of ways that Presidential Authority can be used to continue with some funding, without Congressional approval, but they are somewhat convoluted and time consuming to navigate. And the House will likely throw a few more bucks at Ukraine. The Eurotrash will purposely drag their feet, with their support, by throwing out a few more “commitments”, “pledges” and “promises” and they’ll keep stretching out the UkeBros hope with things like “frozen funds”, but history demonstrates that they won’t come through with any of it. Public support is going to continue to wane and as it wanes, political support, which is always lagging, will begin to wane as well. Body count, on both sides, will continue to grow, while the painfully slow political machines reach the point that has already been determined. It’s only a matter of time now. Also, you would have to lack a significant amount of the ability to be objective, if you believe the rabidity of the UkeBros and the non-UkeBros is relatively equal. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 3:30:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Iran Contra? Not likely. We're fresh out of Reagans, Weinbergers and Norths. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 3:33:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do we cut and run, thus giving the US a massive black eye in terms of credibility? We never HAD any credibility. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 3:37:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you completely ignoring the anti-Ukrainian side... How can a desire to save Ukranian lives be anti-Ukrainian? Stating the need for an immediate negotiated settlement is neither anti-Ukrainian or pro-Russian. It's pro-sanity. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 3:40:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryIrrelevant. The Biden administration has already admitted that they can only continue to send help for a very short time. None of your work arounds can change that. Deputy Defense Department press secretary Sabrina Singh told reporters Tuesday that the administration has “enough funding authorities to meet Ukraine’s battlefield needs for just a little bit longer, but we need Congress to act to ensure there is no disruption in our support, especially as the department seeks to replenish our stocks.” |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 3:46:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Irrelevant. The Biden administration has already admitted that they can only continue to send help for a very short time. None of your work arounds can change that. My work arounds? |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 3:47:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My work arounds? Your list of suggestions how Biden could provide aid without Congress. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 3:49:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How can a desire to save Ukranian lives be anti-Ukrainian? Stating the need for an immediate negotiated settlement is neither anti-Ukrainian or pro-Russian. It's pro-sanity. From a disinterested third party it seems like depopulation of Ukraine is one of the goals of the West, to unknown ends. Cheering as conscripts attack into prepared defenses and die in minefields is either malicious or uncaring. There is no third option. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 3:49:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also, you would have to lack a significant amount of the ability to be objective, if you believe the rabidity of the UkeBros and the non-UkeBros is relatively equal. I’m operating on 2 hours of sleep per night this month. Can you clarify this for me - I’m operating at 8th grade level atm and not able to figure out the meaning |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 3:55:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your list of suggestions how Biden could provide aid without Congress. The list as I posted in my thread on the topic is in the millions not billions - 650 million for one option but the other sounds like drawing from DOD beyond authorized, then daring Congress to not pay to replenish in the following fiscal years. I’m operating on 2 hours of sleep so my read might be wrong. I’ll revisit it at a later time. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:00:44 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The list as I posted in my thread on the topic is in the millions not billions - 650 million for one option but the other sounds like drawing from DOD beyond authorized, then daring Congress to not pay to replenish in the following fiscal years. I’m operating on 2 hours of sleep so my read might be wrong. I’ll revisit it at a later time. Seems like friendly fire. Emotional subject. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:06:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From a disinterested third party it seems like depopulation of Ukraine is one of the goals of the West, to unknown ends. Cheering as conscripts attack into prepared defenses and die in minefields is either malicious or uncaring. There is no third option. It's real simple. The Military Industrial Complex is generous in providing campaign funds. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:09:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You actually think we’re done sending money and weapons to Ukraine? lol Sadly, I agree with you. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:13:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sadly, I agree with you. You must know how Biden can do it without Congress. Share. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:16:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, they could start by truthfully identifying their shortfalls and stop blaming everyone else. Then we could also truthfully identify what exactly they need instead of dropping a Defender Europe 2020 template COA on them. The Russians are focusing the propaganda inward on a population they actually have a modicum of control over through state owned media and telecom. The Ukrainians think they are able to fool the west proper. You speak of credibility, but Ukraine has lost a lot of it, which is inherently married to a loss of external physical and financial support. As far as Chinese ambition, devoting resources away from Chinese deterrence and locking into a multi-year stalemate which is bleeding us dry is pretty much an ideal situation for them. They could care less about our resolve in Ukraine as long as our magazines are empty and economy is in shambles. The end result is that we simply cannot support what they need, which is manpower and air defense. The longer this drags on the more dire that situation becomes. We are critically short on both, and only one is on the table for Ukraine. We are mashing a square peg into a round hole over and over hoping it will work this time. What needs to happen is a full court press on China and Iran with a negotiated armistice in Ukraine. They also have a credibility problem with their Polish neighbor. Ukraine needs to have an election, get rid of Zelenskyy and start looking for the off ramp. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:19:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, acknowledge what we can or cannot do for Ukraine and provide the support that we can without assuming major risk on our end. Ultimately push for a brokered armistice sooner than later, as this is not going anywhere anytime soon otherwise. If they don't want to negotiate, Europe needs to take the lead on this in all ways and means. The majority of our resources need to pivot towards China and Iran ASAP. Gotcha. Thanks for the reply. I suspect the part in red will engender quite a difference in opinion though. I also wonder what pivoting toward Iran and China will look like. Ultimately, the budget is controlled by politicians and I think the chances of them agreeing to a large-scale buildup of our capabilities as pretty slim. I can't imagine they're too gung-ho about committing vast amount of money for whatever hardware we might need unless something very serious happens. ETA: I can't imagine the panic that would beset Europe if we do bail out. They're almost back to their usual shtick as the stalemate drags on and the US is sending vast amount of firepower. The panic in Berlin, Paris, etc. will be delicious to see if it comes to pass. I still hope that this resolves before it comes to the withdrawal of US support, but the amount of Schadenfreude seeing Schroder shit his pants would be pretty high. 
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:21:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You must know how Biden can do it without Congress. Share. I disagree with your premise that Congress will stop funding. The spice will flow. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:21:17 PM EDT
[#45]
We'll keep throwing money and weapons at them. That will solve it!
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:26:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They also have a credibility problem with their Polish neighbor. Ukraine needs to have an election, get rid of Zelenskyy and start looking for the off ramp. Quote HistoryQuoted: They also have a credibility problem with their Polish neighbor. Ukraine needs to have an election, get rid of Zelenskyy and start looking for the off ramp. https://www.newsweek.com/volodymyr-zelensky-approval-ratings-ukraine-war-popularity-1813638 Out of 1,000 respondents in Ukraine, answering through telephone interviews between September 2 and 11, 2022, 91 percent of Ukrainians aged between 15 and 34 supported Zelensky's actions as president. For those aged between 35 and 54, his approval rating dropped by 6 percentage points, falling a further 6 percentage points for those over the age of 55. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:29:44 PM EDT
[#47]
2/3 running for speaker dont seem disposed to aid for Ukraine https://rollcall.com/2023/10/06/fox-news-speaker-candidate-forum-nixed/
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:34:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I disagree with your premise that Congress will stop funding. The spice will flow. How? There is no visible means at this point. It's over. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:40:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2/3 running for speaker dont seem disposed to aid for Ukraine https://rollcall.com/2023/10/06/fox-news-speaker-candidate-forum-nixed/ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4947_jpeg-2981220.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4948_jpeg-2981222.JPG I agree that the unsecured border is a higher risk, but I don't see how stopping Ukraine aid will magically resolve the border issue. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:44:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree that the unsecured border is a higher risk, but I don't see how stopping Ukraine aid will magically resolve the border issue. I don’t see how any House bill for the border gets past Democrat Senate or Biden veto but I figure 2024 election has conservative Congressmenbers hoping to capitalize on Biden’s poll numbers for immigration in the for next years election. So maybe a 2024 thing given decking poll numbers for Republican voters on the topic of Ukraine |
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