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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:29:46 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm one of those weirdos who pray for the day when we cast aside all this denominational silliness and get down to the very serious business of winning souls. I understand that churches need to create their own brand identity and make it so believers can't freely move from congregation to congregation, but that's a human problem and really not God's problem. When we all can agree on the Gospel Message but still can't get together because somebody wrote a rule that says we can't, then it's a problem. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:35:54 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The biggest idealogical enemies are those closest to oneself, as they belie the idea that you alone have the true-true. Where I do take a bit of umbrage is being called everything from "pagan" to "non-biblical" to downright evil by the Jack Chick crowd. Every Catholic article of faith has scriptural basis and can bee seen in the Bible. When one points that out, the response is "that passage doesn't mean that" which leads me to believe that even the "solo scriptura" crowd is just interpreting scripture the way they want to--like everyone else. That's fine and it's up to every individual to follow their conscience but please do me the same courtesy. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:36:52 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Protestants cut out the middleman. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:41:01 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jews, Catholics, Christians, even muslims all believe in the same exact God. Why we have always been at each other over subtle differences is beyond me. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:42:54 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BIG FUCKING NO They just call him Allah Theres no refuting that. Its fact based on religious study courses that I did for over a decade at a catholic school. Christians and Catholics have Jesus in the story Muslims have Mohammed, Muslims even have Jesus in the story and regard him as a prophet Jews have Judah They all worship the same God though |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:43:32 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Baptists pre-date Luther or the Church of England, but nice try .... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Baptists pre-date Luther or the Church of England, but nice try .... Quoted:
It isn't really praying to Mary but through her..........why they do that, I suppose, is to gain added validity to their prayer.............but that one I don't know, just guessing. (Turning water in to wine; because his mother told him to - and she persisted despite his initial objection) |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:43:58 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Praying TO one another, is not the same thing as praying FOR one another. Those are very different propositions. I recall a certain carpenter's son, who said something along the lines that " ..no man comes unto the Father, but through Me." Not His Mom, Santa Claus, John the Baptist, or Moses - Him, and Him alone. "Holy Mary, mother of God, Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:45:40 AM EST
[#8]
Catholics go to confession to be forgiven for their sins...Christians carry it around with themselves.
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:47:31 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They literally believe in the same God as Abraham did. They just call him Allah Theres no refuting that. Its fact based on religious study courses that I did for over a decade at a catholic school. Christians and Catholics have Jesus in the story Muslims have Mohammed Jews have Judah They all worship the same God though |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:48:49 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I understand correctly, Jesus appears in the koran but they just think of him as a prophet. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:50:15 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? What date do you have for each? Wikipedia places the first Baptist church in the early 17th century, while Luther and the Church of England are 16th century. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? What date do you have for each? Wikipedia places the first Baptist church in the early 17th century, while Luther and the Church of England are 16th century. Our best historical evidence says that Baptists came into existence in England in the early seventeenth century. They apparently emerged out of the Puritan-Separatist movement in the Church of England. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:51:33 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To make it short not much. I grew up non denominational Christian. Went to Catholic school from k to 12. The subtle differences between Catholics, Christians, Baptists etc is so fuckin marginal that I cant believe there is so much angst against each other. Jews, Catholics, Christians, even muslims all believe in the same exact God. Why we have always been at each other over subtle differences is beyond me. The Koran incorporates a large amount of influence from Zoroastrianism and pre-Islamic Arabian Idols. So no, definitley not the same God. Had uncle Mo not tainted the earth with his existence, the Middle East might actually be peaceful. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:52:51 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They literally believe in the same God as Abraham did. They just call him Allah Theres no refuting that. Its fact based on religious study courses that I did for over a decade at a catholic school. They are descended from Abraham through Ishmael. But Ishmael didn't inherit any of Abraham's promises form God, because that went to Isaac. Read the Koran, the god in the Koran in no way shape or form resembles the God revealed in the Old or New Testaments. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:53:56 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Muslims worship a pagan moon god that Mohammed rebranded to gain power. The Koran incorporates a large amount of influence from Zoroastrianism and pre-Islamic Arabian Idols. So no, definitley not the same God. Had uncle Mo not tainted the earth with his existence, the Middle East might actually be peaceful. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:54:46 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah just edited that, they call him by a different name I think though If Jesus was just a prophet as Muslim's claim, then God is not 3 persons in 1 deity. Which makes Christianity patently false. The two belief systems are mutually exclusive. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 11:55:25 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Muslims worship a pagan moon god that Mohammed rebranded to gain power. The Koran incorporates a large amount of influence from Zoroastrianism and pre-Islamic Arabian Idols. So no, definitley not the same God. Had uncle Mo not tainted the earth with his existence, the Middle East might actually be peaceful. The differences you are at odds with could be seen as the same differences between Catholics and Christians. All in all, petty differences. This is why I don't get into threads like these. Too many feels. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:00:47 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They literally believe in the same God as Abraham did. They just call him Allah Theres no refuting that. Its fact based on religious study courses that I did for over a decade at a catholic school. Christians and Catholics have Jesus in the story Muslims have Mohammed, Muslims even have Jesus in the story and regard him as a prophet Jews have Judah They all worship the same God though Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: BIG FUCKING NO They just call him Allah Theres no refuting that. Its fact based on religious study courses that I did for over a decade at a catholic school. Christians and Catholics have Jesus in the story Muslims have Mohammed, Muslims even have Jesus in the story and regard him as a prophet Jews have Judah They all worship the same God though |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:04:51 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: if Allah and the Jewish/Christian supreme deity are the same, why do they have such contradictory commands? Feel free to look up abrahamic religions. At the center of it all it's the same God |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:06:45 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again they worship the same God Abraham did. Hence the term Abrahamic religions. The differences you are at odds with could be seen as the same differences between Catholics and Christians. All in all, petty differences. This is why I don't get into threads like these. Too many feels. The Old Testament is a collection of different types of works (genesis stories, Mosaic law, historical, prophetic, etc.)from different writers over the course of many centuries; The New Testament is a collection of writings from several different hands (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, the author of Acts, the various authors of the Letters, and John the author of Revelations). In contrast, the Koran was written by one man who claimed it was dictated to him from his deity CENTURIES after the Old Testament and New Testament were widespread knowledge throughout his end of the world. Islam has nothing to demonstrate it is a legitimate, Judeo-Christian-deity-authorized branch of worship of the Judeo-Christian deity other than solely Mohammad writing "OH HAI GUISE, WE'RE LIKE TOTES ABRAHAMIC TOO!!1!" long after the fact. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:10:09 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Abraham's covenant was at least 3000 years before Mohammad was even born. The Old Testament is a collection of different types of works (genesis stories, Mosaic law, historical, prophetic, etc.)from different writers over the course of many centuries; The New Testament is a collection of writings from several different hands (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, the author of Acts, the various authors of the Letters, and John the author of Revelations). In contrast, the Koran was written by one man who claimed it was dictated to him from his deity CENTURIES after the Old Testament and New Testament were widespread knowledge throughout his end of the world. Islam has nothing to demonstrate it is a legitimate, Judeo-Christian-deity-authorized branch of worship of the Judeo-Christian deity other than solely Mohammad writing "OH HAI GUISE, WE'RE LIKE TOTES ABRAHAMIC TOO!!1!" long after the fact. "The Abrahamic religions, also referred to collectively as Abrahamism, are a group of Semitic-originated religious communities of faith that claim descent from the practices of the ancient Israelites and the worship of the God of Abraham" "Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the largest Abrahamic religions in terms of numbers of adherents.[3][4][5]" |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:15:24 PM EST
[#21]
I use to think the main difference was that in the broader christian community, we see some wacky churches that don't seem to be based on anything in the bible. However, the current pope of the catholic church (he's the equvailent of a CEO and Chairman of the board) continues to prove that he can be just as wacky and a nut job.
Before some take me to task here regarding talking about the pope that way, remember he is a mere mortal who was elected to that position by mortals. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:16:08 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 3 chapters after the one describing Purgatory, and 2 chapters before the one outlining the indulgences process. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:17:20 PM EST
[#23]
The house they go to.
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:21:56 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Valid point. IMHO, everybody has to find their own path. I'm in no position to judge other Christians. I believe what I believe because of study and introspection and if I didn't think it "correct" I'd believe something else. I assume the same for our protestant brethren. Quote HistoryQuoted: Valid point. IMHO, everybody has to find their own path. I'm in no position to judge other Christians. I believe what I believe because of study and introspection and if I didn't think it "correct" I'd believe something else. I assume the same for our protestant brethren. Where I do take a bit of umbrage is being called everything from "pagan" to "non-biblical" to downright evil by the Jack Chick crowd. Every Catholic article of faith has scriptural basis and can be seen in the Bible. When one points that out, the response is "that passage doesn't mean that" which leads me to believe that even the "solo scriptura" crowd is just interpreting scripture the way they want to--like everyone else. That's fine and it's up to every individual to follow their conscience but please do me the same courtesy. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:22:11 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is why these threads suck. Anyone who is passionate cannot take a step back to be critical "The Abrahamic religions, also referred to collectively as Abrahamism, are a group of Semitic-originated religious communities of faith that claim descent from the practices of the ancient Israelites and the worship of the God of Abraham" "Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the largest Abrahamic religions in terms of numbers of adherents.[3][4][5]" Christians view God as being 3 persons in one 1 deity. Muslim's renounce this. If I describe a duck as having 4 legs and a long neck, and you say a duck has 2 legs, webbed feet, a beak and wings, one of us is clearly talking about a totally different animal even if we call it the same name. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:22:46 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is a prosperity preacher but at least he doesn't claim to be Christ on earth. Vicar of Christ is about the worst blasphemy thing one can claim other than outright rejection of Christ. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:23:33 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholic salvation entails;
while Protestant Christian salvation entails believing as stated in John3:16. 
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:23:45 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I understand correctly, Jesus appears in the koran but they just think of him as a prophet. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:25:12 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: if Allah and the Jewish/Christian supreme deity are the same, why do they have such contradictory commands? |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:25:55 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Food for thought: what was the first miracle Jesus performed, and why did he perform it? (Turning water in to wine; because his mother told him to - and she persisted despite his initial objection) |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:27:05 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From the Muslim point of view, because Jesus' message was superseded by Mohammad's. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:27:33 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny I thought I was Lutheran not Catholic. Oh wait I don't pay a middleman to go to heaven |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:28:26 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which kind of contradicts the belief of an eternal God who came preached the Truth. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:30:32 PM EST
[#34]
Pedophilia
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:33:25 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except I explained this, objectively. Christians view God as being 3 persons in one 1 deity. Muslim's renounce this. If I describe a duck as having 4 legs and a long neck, and you say a duck has 2 legs, webbed feet, a beak and wings, one of us is clearly talking about a totally different animal even if we call it the same name. Those include jews, Christians, and muslims. Just because you don't see it that way doesn't make it not a fact Actually go Google the term abrahamic religions. Report back with what it says |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:34:07 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again the term abrahamic religions refer to those who worship the God of Abraham. Those include jews, Christians, and muslims. Just because you don't see it that way doesn't make it not a fact Actually go Google the term abrahamic religions. Report back with what it says |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:35:33 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm aware of the definition. It's wrong. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:39:13 PM EST
[#38]
Just here again to up the post count. Any timeouts yet?
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:42:24 PM EST
[#39]
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:48:42 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From the Muslim point of view, because Jesus' message was superseded by Mohammad's. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: if Allah and the Jewish/Christian supreme deity are the same, why do they have such contradictory commands? WORSHIP BILL AND TED!! |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:50:15 PM EST
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted: Except I explained this, objectively. Christians view God as being 3 persons in one 1 deity. Muslim's renounce this. If I describe a duck as having 4 legs and a long neck, and you say a duck has 2 legs, webbed feet, a beak and wings, one of us is clearly talking about a totally different animal even if we call it the same name. Those include jews, Christians, and muslims. Just because you don't see it that way doesn't make it not a fact Actually go Google the term abrahamic religions. Report back with what it says |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 1:01:46 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You understand incorrectly. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 1:35:47 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you agree that the celebrations of Christmas and Easter are traditions of men and have no place in a sola scriptura Christian's worship. "Easter" is a Passover feast, and Jesus explicitly said to remember him with it. As for Christmas, I am unaware of any Baptist church where it is mandatory. Celebrating Jesus' birth strikes me as no more unusual than celebrating my own - just more important. You are attempting to reduce by absurdity the notion of Sola Scriptura. No one has ever asserted that any individual church may not by a building or hold meetings as it deemed fitting and proper for its congregation. That, however, is a far cry from: seizing power as a theocracy inventing an intermediate place between heaven and hell charging the relatives of deceased money to get their dead relatives out that intermediate place execution of heretics persecution of science and the whole host of things that led to a reformation in the first place - all of which can be laid directly upon the edifice that the Church of Rome built, rather than on God's words. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 1:37:43 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use to think the main difference was that in the broader christian community, we see some wacky churches that don't seem to be based on anything in the bible. However, the current pope of the catholic church (he's the equvailent of a CEO and Chairman of the board) continues to prove that he can be just as wacky and a nut job. Before some take me to task here regarding talking about the pope that way, remember he is a mere mortal who was elected to that position by mortals. He's no JPII. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 1:43:49 PM EST
[#45]
Catholics are the only real Christians.
Yeah, just like that. The truth. Quoted:
Catholics believe that Jesus started a church while here on earth with the 12 apostles. He duly informed them, blessed them with the power of the Holy Spirit, and sent them forth with a mission. Every other Christian church was started by someone else who was not one of those 12. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 1:45:59 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jesus has been dead for about that long too, but lots of Christians pray to him. I mean, Jesus is the son of God, right? So how do Christians get away praying to Jesus, given that God said to pray to no one else but him? Y'all are a bunch or hypocrites. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 1:47:38 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? What date do you have for each? Wikipedia places the first Baptist church in the early 17th century, while Luther and the Church of England are 16th century. Second Diet (or Council) of Speier, April 25, 1529 - where the ball really got rolling. Cardinal Hosius (1504-1579) was a Roman Catholic prelate who had as his life work the investigation and suppression of non-Catholic groups. By Pope Paul IV he was designated one of the three papal presidents of the famous Council of Trent. Hosius carried on vigorously the work of the counter-reformation. If anyone in post-reformation times knew the doctrines and history of nonCatholic groups, it was Hosius. Cardinal Hosius says, "Were it not that the Baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past 1,200 years, they would swarm in greater number than all the Reformers" (Letters Apud Opera, pp.112, 113). Note carefully that this knowledgeable Catholic scholar has spoken of the vicious persecution Baptists have endured, that he clearly distinguishes them from the Reformers, and that he dates them 1,200 years before the Protestant Reformation. Baptists make no effort to trace a historical succession back to the age of the Apesties. Their only claim is that at every age in church history there have been groups that have held to the same doctrines that Baptists hold today. These groups may or may not have been connected and they have been known by various names. There were the Montanists (150 A.D.), the Novatians (240 A.D.), Donatists (305 A.D.), Albigenses (1022 A.D.), Waldensians (1170 A.D.), and the name Anabaptists came into prominence just before the time of the Protestant Reformation. Above 2 quotes from https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's%20Corner/why_baptists_are_not_protestants.htm Rest is my words: Baptists are not "Protestants" because they were never *IN* the Roman Catholic Church, and thus were not trying to "protest" or "reform" it. The lack of Baptist churches officially existing until the 1700s is akin to the lack of North Korean or Russian Baptist churches during the Cold War - they were a persecuted minority. Our lineage goes back to those first few doing as John the Baptist and Jesus Himself did. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 1:51:13 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right from the Hail Mary: "Holy Mary, mother of God, Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Pray to the Father, in the name of the Son. Not the Son's mother, or in the name of the Son's mother. Christ's sacrifice has made you clean enough to approach the throne. There is nothing more that Mary can do. Of course, part of the issue is - just exactly where do you think the dead in Christ are, and what are they doing right now? I admit that point is less than clear. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 1:51:58 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://www.baptisthistory.org/baptistorigins/baptistbeginnings.html The Baptist denomination started in England in the 17th century. Many claim that the denomination started with John the Baptist, but there is no historical basis for that at all and this thought was first mentioned in the 17th century by the founders of the denomination. Many claim that Baptists are not protestants because they claim that the denomination existed long before the protestant reformation, but again, there is zero evidence for such a claim. The denomination may have formally begun there as an overt entity, but the Baptist faith long precedes it. At leas, according to those charged with its suppression. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 1:57:12 PM EST
[#50]
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