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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:08:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will say this - as a Baptist, I much prefer a strong, Godly, and effective Roman Catholic church. Everyone benefits from that. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:11:24 PM EDT
[#2]
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Christianity is justification through faith alone. Catholicism is justification through works. This is dangerous as many people believe they will access to the father just by doing good things which scripture reveals is false. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:22:02 PM EDT
[#3]
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Lol, just because the Catholic church tried to exterminate their competition, doesn't mean they didn't exist. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm an atheist, but Catholics are Christians. For 3/4 the time Christianity has existed, they've been the only Christians. That's like saying that people in England don't speak English. 
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:29:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We also believe in a personal relationship, where Catholics require intercession. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Christianity is justification through faith alone. Catholicism is justification through works. This is dangerous as many people believe they will access to the father just by doing good things which scripture reveals is false. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:31:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Orthodox Church takes exception to the concept that the upstarts in Rome were the only Christians. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm an atheist, but Catholics are Christians. For 3/4 the time Christianity has existed, they've been the only Christians. That's like saying that people in England don't speak English. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:32:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Birth control.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:33:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Books have always said the first Christian nations were Ethiopia, Armenia and Georgia...............whether this is true or not I can't say for sure but that is what I have always read. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:33:34 PM EDT
[#8]
I my Christian faith I believe all have sinned, including the heads of the Catholic Church.
Yet, Jesus still died for all of us, Pope included. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:36:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From what I understand catholics believe you get to heaven by your good works. So they believe they can save themselves. I am Lutheran an believe that jesus died on the cross to take away my sins an by believing in him I will be saved. There is nothing I can do to go to heaven but believe in God. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:37:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We also believe in a personal relationship, where Catholics require intercession. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:37:33 PM EDT
[#11]
inflammatory has its merits.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:37:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholic salvation entails;
while Protestant Christian salvation entails believing as stated in John3:16. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholic salvation entails;
while Protestant Christian salvation entails believing as stated in John3:16. 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:38:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no such thing as a "Christian nation". Only individual Christians. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Books have always said the first Christian nations were Ethiopia, Armenia and Georgia...............whether this is true or not I can't say for sure but that is what I have always read. Orthodox religions were pretty much in sync with Catholics until around 1,000 AD if IIRC and the major difference was the disagreement over the power of the Pope. They split over that difference (among others but that is what I was always told was the main reason). There were Christians throughout the general area of the Old World LONG before that but Catholicism was not the official sect of Christianity for the first Christian declared nations..........well that is what I have always read..............? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:41:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So Lutherans don't think they should follow the 10 commandments? We believe that we should indeed obey God's commandments. But we also understand that doing so will not "earn" us a place in Heaven. That is strictly based upon God's Grace which He gives us through Christ. I am to do good works, but they are the "evidence" of my Salvation, not the "cause" of it. I am Saved by Grace Alone. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:42:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not a Lutheran, but share their basic theology. We believe that we should indeed obey God's commandments. But we also understand that doing so will not "earn" us a place in Heaven. That is strictly based upon God's Grace which He gives us through Christ. I am to do good works, but they are the "evidence" of my Salvation, not the "cause" of it. I am Saved by Grace Alone. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:43:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Dogma.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:44:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, nations officially established Christianity as their nation's religion...........and I have always read what I said above. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Books have always said the first Christian nations were Ethiopia, Armenia and Georgia...............whether this is true or not I can't say for sure but that is what I have always read. 
Living in a nation that has "officially established Christianity as their nation's religion" means absolutely nothing. Real Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Only an individual can do that. No "nation" can. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:44:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's actually Catholic theology as well, in spite of all the fuss about there being a perceived difference or abuse by individuals in the faith. I see error on both sides--Catholics who think they can "earn their way" and protestants who think that they are saved so "anything goes." Both extremes are in error--faith and works go hand in hand and scripture says so clearly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I am not a Lutheran, but share their basic theology. We believe that we should indeed obey God's commandments. But we also understand that doing so will not "earn" us a place in Heaven. That is strictly based upon God's Grace which He gives us through Christ. I am to do good works, but they are the "evidence" of my Salvation, not the "cause" of it. I am Saved by Grace Alone. 
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:47:32 PM EDT
[#19]
There's something I've never understood about Sola Scriptura: how is someone supposed to figure out which bible is the correct one without relying on traditions? The Catholic bible contains books not found in most protestant bibles and the eastern orthodox bible contains still more.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:49:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So Lutherans don't think they should follow the 10 commandments? The One Who Kept the Law took all of our sins upon Himself and took them to His cross. Jesus did ALL the work. Jesus paid ALL the price to redeem sinners. Religious people practicing their religion (whatever that religion happens to be) =/= saving faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:49:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Bible vs tradition. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:52:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Here is a brief video of RC Sproul and John MacArthur on the danger of committing idolatry by praying to Mary and the saints.
 Sproul and MacArthur explain praying to Mary - Can you go to heaven if you pray to Mary |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:52:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's something I've never understood about Sola Scriptura: how is someone supposed to figure out which bible is the correct one without relying on traditions? The Catholic bible contains books not found in most protestant bibles and the eastern orthodox bible contains still more. As you note, the RCC has the Apocrypha, which are books that Protestant denominations do not believe are part of the Canon. But otherwise, most Catholics would not find the King James Translation to be any different from what they use in their church. Bottom line........Get a Bible and read it. The Holy Spirit will guide anyone that truly wants to understand it. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:55:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe the main difference between Catholics and other Christians is thier view on Mary. Catholics worship her as the Virgin Mary, mother of God. Other religions do not believe that she was a virgin, or do not pray to her etc. all of them believe the Jesus Christ is the son go God. And that we should be generally good people. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:56:27 PM EDT
[#25]
nothing - they all go to church on Sunday, in homage to the Pope and the Authority of the Church.
Christians kid themselves they are not catholic only because they created other congregations and pick and choose what they will follow and teach much like a dinner buffet, but one thing is for sure, worship is done on Sunday. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:57:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So follow John 3:16 but ignore James 2:14-26? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 12:58:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And you are still wrong.
Living in a nation that has "officially established Christianity as their nation's religion" means absolutely nothing. Real Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Only an individual can do that. No "nation" can. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Books have always said the first Christian nations were Ethiopia, Armenia and Georgia...............whether this is true or not I can't say for sure but that is what I have always read.
Living in a nation that has "officially established Christianity as their nation's religion" means absolutely nothing. Real Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Only an individual can do that. No "nation" can. And I always assumed it was Orthodox religions that were the first established Christian religions..........I might be wrong but THAT is what I am talking about........nothing more. PLease, enough of the dogma!!! 
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:02:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This! Catholics use made up traditions (many that came from Pagan rituals to bring in more followers to monetarily enrich the Catholic Church) instead of strictly following the teachings of the Bible, which they do not. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:04:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Read the Reformation.
Quoted:
Cutting out the middleman |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:05:51 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:14:55 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't think Mary was holy? 
What are your thoughts on the virgin birth, then? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Three things Baptists don't recognize: 1) the infallibility of the Pope 2) the holiness of Mary 3) each other at the liquor store (Former Catholic, now Baptist here )
What are your thoughts on the virgin birth, then? ETA: I mean no disrespect to anyone, but Jesus clearly taught that NO ONE is worthy, let alone "holy". I interpret that literally, which means no human being is capable of even being in God's presence, let alone being able to intercede on our behalf. That includes (IMHO) Mary, Joseph, Lazarus, the Pope, the saints, etc. I believe that Jesus meant exactly what he said. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:16:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Every single human being who ever lived was represented on Calvary.
In the center was God manifest in the flesh. Fully God yet fully man. The sinless, spotless Lamb of God. One either side of Him were two sinners, receiving punishment they were due. But one of those sinners humbled himself and trusted Jesus Christ as his Saviour. His sins were forgiven. That thief didn't get baptized. He didn't confess his sins to a priest and do penance. He didn't join a church. He didn't drop a check in an offering plate. He did not partake of sacraments. He didn't trust that, after all that he could do he would be saved by grace. He didn't boast of keeping the law. He didn't say his works were part of his salvation. He simply trusted Jesus to save him. And Jesus did just that. And so on Calvary: The One who was and is God manifest in the flesh... The sinner who humbled himself and trusted fully in God's mercy to save his soul... The sinner who rejected God's grace. It doesn't matter if the third man was religious or not. The ratio of his good deeds to bad deeds doesn't matter. The bottom line is - he rejected God's grace. Every man was represented on Calvary. None of us are God manifest in the flesh. But we fall into one of the other two categories. We either trust FULLY in what Jesus did for us on the cross... Or we trust in something other than Jesus' finished work. When someone adds their works into the mix, they no longer trust FULLY in what JESUS DID on the cross. "Christian religions" who attempt to claim "salvation by grace" redefine the term. They take participation in their rituals and redefine those works as "grace." Religions don't save sinners. Jesus saves sinners. Romans 11 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:23:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every single human being who ever lived was represented on Calvary. In the center was God manifest in the flesh. Fully God yet fully man. The sinless, spotless Lamb of God. One either side of Him were two sinners, receiving punishment they were due. But one of those sinners humbled himself and trusted Jesus Christ as his Saviour. His sins were forgiven. That thief didn't get baptized. He didn't confess his sins to a priest and do penance. He didn't join a church. He didn't drop a check in an offering plate. He did not partake of sacraments. He didn't trust that, after all that he could do he would be saved by grace. He didn't boast of keeping the law. He didn't say his works were part of his salvation. He simply trusted Jesus to save him. And Jesus did just that. And so on Calvary: The One who was and is God manifest in the flesh... The sinner who humbled himself and trusted fully in God's mercy to save his soul... The sinner who rejected God's grace. It doesn't matter if the third man was religious or not. The ratio of his good deeds to bad deeds doesn't matter. The bottom line is - he rejected God's grace. Every man was represented on Calvary. None of us are God manifest in the flesh. But we fall into one of the other two categories. We either trust FULLY in what Jesus did for us on the cross... Or we trust in something other than Jesus' finished work. When someone adds their works into the mix, they no longer trust FULLY in what JESUS DID on the cross. "Christian religions" who attempt to claim "salvation by grace" redefine the term. They take participation in their rituals and redefine those works as "grace." Religions don't save sinners. Jesus saves sinners. Romans 11 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:26:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Amen!!! Can I get a witness? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:32:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "There is a grinning thief walking the streets of Heaven that knows more about Grace than a thousand theologians." I always tell the story of the thief on the cross whenever someone asks me if it's "too late" or if what they've done during their lives was "too terrible". It really brings home how He is not willing to let ANY slip through his grasp..... even up until the last minute. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:36:06 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every single human being who ever lived was represented on Calvary. In the center was God manifest in the flesh. Fully God yet fully man. The sinless, spotless Lamb of God. One either side of Him were two sinners, receiving punishment they were due. But one of those sinners humbled himself and trusted Jesus Christ as his Saviour. His sins were forgiven. That thief didn't get baptized. He didn't confess his sins to a priest and do penance. He didn't join a church. He didn't drop a check in an offering plate. He did not partake of sacraments. He didn't trust that, after all that he could do he would be saved by grace. He didn't boast of keeping the law. He didn't say his works were part of his salvation. He simply trusted Jesus to save him. And Jesus did just that. And so on Calvary: The One who was and is God manifest in the flesh... The sinner who humbled himself and trusted fully in God's mercy to save his soul... The sinner who rejected God's grace. It doesn't matter if the third man was religious or not. The ratio of his good deeds to bad deeds doesn't matter. The bottom line is - he rejected God's grace. Every man was represented on Calvary. None of us are God manifest in the flesh. But we fall into one of the other two categories. We either trust FULLY in what Jesus did for us on the cross... Or we trust in something other than Jesus' finished work. When someone adds their works into the mix, they no longer trust FULLY in what JESUS DID on the cross. "Christian religions" who attempt to claim "salvation by grace" redefine the term. They take participation in their rituals and redefine those works as "grace." Religions don't save sinners. Jesus saves sinners. Romans 11 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:36:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The answer is simple. There is a lot of foolishness about "which Bible is best". Except for a few modern translations, almost all Bibles say the same thing. As you note, the RCC has the Apocrypha, which are books that Protestant denominations do not believe are part of the Canon. But otherwise, most Catholics would not find the King James Translation to be any different from what they use in their church. Bottom line........Get a Bible and read it. The Holy Spirit will guide anyone that truly wants to understand it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There's something I've never understood about Sola Scriptura: how is someone supposed to figure out which bible is the correct one without relying on traditions? The Catholic bible contains books not found in most protestant bibles and the eastern orthodox bible contains still more. As you note, the RCC has the Apocrypha, which are books that Protestant denominations do not believe are part of the Canon. But otherwise, most Catholics would not find the King James Translation to be any different from what they use in their church. Bottom line........Get a Bible and read it. The Holy Spirit will guide anyone that truly wants to understand it. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:37:11 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was Lazarus holy because Jesus raised him from the dead, or was he still a man? ETA: I mean no disrespect to anyone, but Jesus clearly taught that NO ONE is worthy, let alone "holy". I interpret that literally, which means no human being is capable of even being in God's presence, let alone being able to intercede on our behalf. That includes (IMHO) Mary, Joseph, Lazarus, the Pope, the saints, etc. I believe that Jesus meant exactly what he said. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:37:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Catholic girls/women (from America - not other countries) not only put out more, but - the longer I live - seem to just be sluts.
I've dated plenty of them, but would no longer marry an American-raised catholic. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:44:33 PM EDT
[#40]
we can drink other religions under the table.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:46:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No sir. I'm gaining much knowledge from you fine folks in GD. I truly am. Thanks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ITT OP trolls and runs Enjoy your popcorn |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:47:02 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mary was not holy in and of herself. She was chosen by God to give a virgin birth to his son. The act itself was part of God’s holiness and grace. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:59:14 PM EDT
[#43]
I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school for 10 years.
I was taught more about the Church than the Bible. Church and their rules first then Bible. It's kind of like working in a Union shop but different. I have found that living within the boundaries of the Ten Commandments, the Bible and the US Constitution life can be less troublesome. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:04:27 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mary was not holy in and of herself. She was chosen by God to give a virgin birth to his son. The act itself was part of God’s holiness and grace. Mary acknowledged her need for a Saviour and provided a sin offering after Jesus' birth. Luke 1 46And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,47And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. Lev 12 6 And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: 7 Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female. 8 And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean. Luke 2 22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; 23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) 24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:12:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Immaculate Conception is a Catholic tradition. It is not believed by any Protestant denomination. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Immaculate Conception is a Catholic tradition. It is not believed by any Protestant denomination. Lutherans, for one, would disagree. From the Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration, article VIII.24 On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, Mary, the most blessed virgin, did not conceive a mere, ordinary human being, but a human being who is truly the Son of the most high God, as the angel testifies. He demonstrated his divine majesty even in his mother's womb in that he was born of a virgin without violating her virginity. Therefore she is truly the mother of God and yet remained a virgin. God has formed the soul and body of the Virgin Mary full of the Holy Spirit, so that she is without all sins, for she has conceived and borne the Lord Jesus The idea that Mary had other children is in the history of Christianity, an innovation that can be marked with Calvin, and exists in no other Church which can trace its origins to antiquity. Actually, its quite the opposite. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:16:11 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We also believe in a personal relationship, where Catholics require intercession. Quote HistoryQuoted: We also believe in a personal relationship, where Catholics require intercession. The desire for God is written in the human heart, because man is created by God and for God; and God never ceases to draw man to himself. Only in God will he find the truth and happiness he never stops searching for:
The dignity of man rests above all on the fact that he is called to communion with God. This invitation to converse with God is addressed to man as soon as he comes into being. For if man exists it is because God has created him through love, and through love continues to hold him in existence. He cannot live fully according to truth unless he freely acknowledges that love and entrusts himself to his creator. 44 Man is by nature and vocation a religious being. Coming from God, going toward God, man lives a fully human life only if he freely lives by his bond with God. 45 Man is made to live in communion with God in whom he finds happiness: When I am completely united to you, there will be no more sorrow or trials; entirely full of you, my life will be complete (St. Augustine, Conf. 10, 28, 39: PL 32, 795}. 46 When he listens to the message of creation and to the voice of conscience, man can arrive at certainty about the existence of God, the cause and the end of everything. 47 The Church teaches that the one true God, our Creator and Lord, can be known with certainty from his works, by the natural light of human reason (cf. Vatican Council I, can. 2 § 1: DS 3026), 48 We really can name God, starting from the manifold perfections of his creatures, which are likenesses of the infinitely perfect God, even if our limited language cannot exhaust the mystery. 49 Without the Creator, the creature vanishes (GS 36). This is the reason why believers know that the love of Christ urges them to bring the light of the living God to those who do not know him or who reject him. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:18:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Whenever protestants decide they don't like something about their religion, they simply walk away and start their own church with their new "revelation". Look at the modern history of Anglicanism, and look at its moral and ethical drift when church teaching is 50% plus 1 vote. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:20:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no such thing as a "Christian nation". Only individual Christians. There is one very physical "Christian nation," the Holy See. The UK is united at the top with Queen being the appointed head of state and church. Even in places like Sweden, its impossible to understand the dynamics and culture without the underlying Lutheran faith. I can't think of a Baptist "nation," though Branson might come close! |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:21:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So Lutherans don't think they should follow the 10 commandments? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:25:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's actually Catholic theology as well, in spite of all the fuss about there being a perceived difference or abuse by individuals in the faith. I see error on both sides--Catholics who think they can "earn their way" and protestants who think that they are saved so "anything goes." Both extremes are in error--faith and works go hand in hand and scripture says so clearly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I am not a Lutheran, but share their basic theology. We believe that we should indeed obey God's commandments. But we also understand that doing so will not "earn" us a place in Heaven. That is strictly based upon God's Grace which He gives us through Christ. I am to do good works, but they are the "evidence" of my Salvation, not the "cause" of it. I am Saved by Grace Alone. In this debate, its important to establish the intellect center for the participants, and I'd ask a Protestant, esp. a Baptist, if he was a Calvinist or Arminianism and walk through the TULIP construct together. |
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