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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:26:03 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This! Catholics use made up traditions (many that came from Pagan rituals to bring in more followers to monetarily enrich the Catholic Church) instead of strictly following the teachings of the Bible, which they do not. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:27:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This! Catholics use made up traditions (many that came from Pagan rituals to bring in more followers to monetarily enrich the Catholic Church) instead of strictly following the teachings of the Bible, which they do not. Which traditions would you suggest we've "made up?" |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:32:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The big differences in the theology is that Catholicism holds that Jesus died for all, not a predetermined elect. In this debate, its important to establish the intellect center for the participants, and I'd ask a Protestant, esp. a Baptist, if he was a Calvinist or Arminianism and walk through the TULIP construct together. God has common grace for all people but his saving grace is only for those who put their faith in Christ. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:38:41 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm not Catholic but my wife is so I go Sunday Mass. It sure is more "churchy" than a lot of Protestant churches. I went to a Pentecostal church and "Jesus" was not spoken for at least the first 30 minutes.
I picked this up from sitting on on Sunday Mass. Not bad for someone who sits in the back row and has no formal "churchin'".  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:41:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Many debate the doctrine of election but reformed theology points to god’s sovereignty and omniscience when it comes to election. In other words, God knows everything about us and who will come to Christ “not a hair can fall my head...” We need him, he doesn’t need us. He is also responsible for the fundamental transformation of the heart through the power of the Holy Spirit. God has common grace for all people but his saving grace is only for those who put their faith in Christ. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:49:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a Catholic, I would tend to argue that we ultimately believe that no one who has lived a righteous life without knowledge of Jesus, especially through no fault of his own, will be damned by a just and loving God. Conversely, many who know Jesus, will ultimately face some judgement because we knew better and rejected the teaching of the Lord through our own failings. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:56:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just as a matter of interest, I will explain. I know you do not agree, but just so you understand. We do not believe that Mary was "Holy". She was a wonderful young woman that God found favor in. He blessed her and allowed her to be the mother of Jesus. But we believe that she was a sinner, just like every other human (except Jesus) that ever lived. The Bible never even hints that she was without sin. The Immaculate Conception is a Catholic tradition. It is not believed by any Protestant denomination. We believe that she was a virgin until she gave birth to Jesus. After that, the Bible teaches that she had other children with Joseph, her husband. We hold her in honor for being the mother of Jesus, but we do not worship or venerate her in any way. She was Saved by Jesus, just like all of us. The Bible provides support for this and Aeiparthenos is one of the oldest recorded Christian beliefs. It predates the Bible. The Bible does not teach this. It is vague enough that it can be interpreted that she had other children but this is a retro-conned Protestant interpretation. Catholics do not worship Mary, but I agree it is more complicated here than with the other saints. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:57:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are correct in that many in this world don’t know who God is and have never seen a Bible. This is why Jesus told his disciples about the Great Commission and to “Go make discliples of all the nations...” It is our job as Christians, no matter what denomination, to spread the good news of the Gospel. That said, we've got our work cut out for us in the US, let alone around the globe. As a Catholic, I'd say well more than half of Catholics in the US suffer from poor or completely inadequate catechesis. I'd consider myself among them. The 1960s through the 1980s were a disaster for the US Catholic Church. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 3:07:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Catholicism was started over 2000 years ago by Jesus Christ, christianity was started by Martin Luther.
Christ vs Luther? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 3:08:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe the main difference between Catholics and other Christians is thier view on Mary. Catholics worship her as the Virgin Mary, mother of God. Other religions do not believe that she was a virgin, or do not pray to her etc. all of them believe the Jesus Christ is the son go God. And that we should be generally good people. Catholics do not worship Mary!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 3:13:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Mary...
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Posted: 1/9/2018 3:18:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Luther himself noted Quote HistoryQuoted:
Luther himself noted The idea that Mary had other children is in the history of Christianity, an innovation that can be marked with Calvin, and exists in no other Church which can trace its origins to antiquity. Actually, its quite the opposite. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 3:18:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholicism was started over 2000 years ago by Jesus Christ, christianity was started by Martin Luther. Christ vs Luther? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 3:20:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Calvinism, in theory, unconditional election would mean just that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So Lutherans don't think they should follow the 10 commandments? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 3:32:10 PM EDT
[#15]
I think Martin Luther pretty well explained the differences with his 95 thesis.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 3:32:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Totally false, showing that you do not understand Calvinism at all. https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/what_is_reformed_theology/unconditional-election/ |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 3:39:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is false. Lutherans, for one, would disagree. From the Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration, article VIII.24 Luther himself noted Most serious scholars of Luther would reject the argument that Luther didn't believe in the Immaculate Conception. The idea that Mary had other children is in the history of Christianity, an innovation that can be marked with Calvin, and exists in no other Church which can trace its origins to antiquity. Actually, its quite the opposite. The Immaculate Conception is the concept that May was born free from Original Sin, or "Immaculate". Protestants do not believe in this. Jesus did not have a "conception" - immaculate or otherwise. Conception is the uniting of two gametes - one male, and one female. Rather, Jesus was incarnated in the womb. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 3:42:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fake News!! Catholics do not worship Mary!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:18:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Totally false, showing that you do not understand Calvinism at all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Totally false, showing that you do not understand Calvinism at all. This means simply: God chooses to give some people eternal life, without looking for anything good in them as a condition for loving and saving them.
Before any man or woman is born -- in fact, before the world was made -- God decided who would go to heaven and who would not. Before they did good or bad, God chose some to be His people and rejected others. Again, this isn't the Catholic understanding of TULIP (or the Catholic understanding of predestination, for that matter) but the PCRA.org one. It was also the understanding taught by my decidedly non-Catholic theology teacher. Issues like this sum up a central critique of Protestantism writ large, namely theological and doctrinal drift. Luther today would be an mainline Catholic, or perhaps conservative, with regard to his views of Mary. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:24:12 PM EDT
[#20]
7+ pages and only one brief reply from the OP.
You've been trolled, GD. Hey, everybody! Let's focus on whatever tiny difference we can, thereby furthering our divisions instead of focusing on all of this stuff upon which we agree completely and making the world a better place! Hooray for fractious nonsense! 
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:24:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mis-understand. The Immaculate Conception is the concept that May was born free from Original Sin, or "Immaculate". Protestants do not believe in this. Jesus did not have a "conception" - immaculate or otherwise. Conception is the uniting of two gametes - one male, and one female. Rather, Jesus was incarnated in the womb. Again, I think its as valuable to compare the Roman Catholic belief in Mary to other Churches of antiquity to the rather modern innovation of Calvin to see which is the far more mainline belief. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:32:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They just have statues of her up on the wall like an idol, sell candles with her image on it, and say prayers to her, but by golly, there's no worshiping going on .... No prayers are said to Mary within the Roman Catholic Church. Its a trope, a falsehood and a completely scurrilous charge. Mary retains singular dignity among all the saints. Because of that, her intercession is rightly sought. One cannot study Mary without Jesus, and Jesus without his relationship to Mary. Its incoherent. Further, Mary's Immaculate Conception was at HER conception, not that of Jesus. Catholic belief was that Jesus was "Begotten, not made, and con-substantial with the Father" as is represented in the Nicene Creed. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:35:58 PM EDT
[#23]
I like beer
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:37:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholics don't "worship" Mary...they venerate her and pray to her (and all the saints) to intercede on their behalf. "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death" No different than any thread on this website where a member experiencing an illness or going through a tough time asks the other members to pray for him. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:39:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: According to the PCRA website... Unconditional Election is further defined as; Notice the emphasis on "some" and before any decision of a "choice" between "good or bad." Again, this isn't the Catholic understanding of TULIP (or the Catholic understanding of predestination, for that matter) but the PCRA.org one. It was also the understanding taught by my decidedly non-Catholic theology teacher. Issues like this sum up a central critique of Protestantism writ large, namely theological and doctrinal drift. Luther today would be an mainline Catholic, or perhaps conservative, with regard to his views of Mary. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:41:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So Lutherans are Catholics? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll go with transubstantiation and the belief that Mary maintained her virgin innocence her whole life. We also don't believe that Mary remained a virgin her whole life. So, other than being completely wrong, you nailed it! |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:42:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except when Jesus himself commissioned Peter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Pope is unscriptural. Nobody is between the individual and Jesus Christ. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:52:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lutherans believe in consubstantiation, not transubstantiation. We also don't believe that Mary remained a virgin her whole life. So, other than being completely wrong, you nailed it! |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:52:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except that she can't hear you. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:55:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Except that she can't hear you. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:57:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, if Luther disagrees, you're more Lutheran than Luther? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Lutherans believe in consubstantiation, not transubstantiation. We also don't believe that Mary remained a virgin her whole life. So, other than being completely wrong, you nailed it! At least TRY to learn something about what you're commenting on. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:57:59 PM EDT
[#32]
It depends on whether or not one believes there was ever an apostasy necessitating a restoration of the original Church organized by Christ.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:01:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
almost half of catholics are leftists Fact is if you vote for a baby killer you are a baby killer |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:02:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Oh man - are we doing this again? The new year was going so well...
Hopefully, the discussion will stay reasonable and courteous. It never ceases to amaze me how acrimonious people get in these threads. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:03:59 PM EDT
[#35]
As a Methodist, I can put a con-dom on my John Thomas. A Catholic can't.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:04:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholics love to vote for baby killers stating separation of church and state. Fact is if you vote for a baby killer you are a baby killer Newsflash: Plenty of religious folks vote Democrat. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:05:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a Methodist, I can put a con-dom on my John Thomas. A Catholic can't. 
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:05:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Historically, catholics were better known for the rituals, bells and smells, harking back to their pagan antecedents.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:07:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went to a mainline Baptist church with a Nativity Scene, and I've seen probably dozens of movies, living Nativity scenes, etc. and other Protestant invocations of the Virgin Mary. Are they engaged in idolatry, too? Quote HistoryQuoted: I went to a mainline Baptist church with a Nativity Scene, and I've seen probably dozens of movies, living Nativity scenes, etc. and other Protestant invocations of the Virgin Mary. Are they engaged in idolatry, too? No prayers are said to Mary within the Roman Catholic Church. Its a trope, a falsehood and a completely scurrilous charge. To my non-Catholic eye, that looks a lot like a prayer, including the "Amen" at the end. Mary retains singular dignity among all the saints. Because of that, her intercession is rightly sought. One cannot study Mary without Jesus, and Jesus without his relationship to Mary. Its incoherent. Further, Mary's Immaculate Conception was at HER conception, not that of Jesus. Catholic belief was that Jesus was "Begotten, not made, and con-substantial with the Father" as is represented in the Nicene Creed. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:12:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Newsflash: Plenty of religious folks vote Democrat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Catholics love to vote for baby killers stating separation of church and state. Fact is if you vote for a baby killer you are a baby killer I mean it is hard to believe. I have many catholic friends and go to a lot of their events. I am a Church of Christ Raised back slider and no longer Have a problem with Catholics like the Church of Christ has. I figure we are all headed in the same general direction and compared to mooslims we are Christian Brothers headed in more or less the RIGHT direction. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:16:15 PM EDT
[#41]
Prots have inferior aesthetics. Eastern Orthodox is best. Catholics are middle of the road and their branding suffers for it.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:17:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We also believe in a personal relationship, where Catholics require intercession. But nice to have available if needed. Like if you were throwing a wedding and ran out of wine. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:19:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What orifice are you pulling this shit from. At least TRY to learn something about what you're commenting on. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:23:00 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes that's true, but to here a devout Catholic and I mean every time the door is open and Knight of Columbus to the max, defend his vote to the nth degree is really something to see. I mean it is hard to believe. I have many catholic friends and go to a lot of their events. I am a Church of Christ Raised back slider and no longer Have a problem with Catholics like the Church of Christ has. I figure we are all headed in the same general direction and compared to mooslims we are Christian Brothers headed in more or less the RIGHT direction. Knight of Columbus here. 
I'm sure there are plenty out there - and I'm sure there are non-Catholic Christians who do the same thing. FWIW - check out this video:  Failed To Load Title [ETA] "Ignorance in this area is unacceptable because ignorance costs Millions of babies their lives and jeopardizes the souls of many Catholic voters. On the other hand, if you do know which candidate and party want to promote and expand abortion and you still to enable them to continue their war on the unborn it is my duty as a priest to tell you that your soul will be in grave danger, especially if you present yourself for Holy Communion after casting a vote in the full knowledge of what you are doing." |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:23:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought it was Armenian Orthodox? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Age... Catholicism is the original Christian faith. The catholic church was founded by the Apostles, it's 2000 years old. The archaic doctrine comes from the middle ages, and it seems kind of foreign now I admit. The Lutherans have only been around for about 500 years... kind of a young fledgling religion in the scheme of things. The Eastern Church was the first to split away, that was for purely political reasons. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:24:46 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Cramner and Wesley all stated at some point that Mary was perpetually Virgin, but they are wrong? 
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:30:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't think of a Baptist "nation," though Branson might come close! |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:37:18 PM EDT
[#48]
The Crusaders were Catholic. The other denominations in Europe hadn't been invented yet.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:44:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Crusaders were Catholic. The other denominations in Europe hadn't been invented yet. 
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:06:38 PM EDT
[#50]
Slightly different business plan to extort money and keep you in line.
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