Several different ways to mount an optic & still fold up, and it takes 8 different pistol mags from Beretta 92 to Smiths - S&W is easier to mount an optic on, takes 1 type of pistol mag.

I'm very slowly moving from a non-modified, no optic SUB to a Fold AR w/ red dot & variable magnifier - ie, I've not worked on putting together the lower in weeks.  

I assembled a 9mm AR. It has the magwell insert, and a 16" barrel with rail. Would have rather had standard handguards and front sight base, but this kit was less than $300 shipped. Haven't shot it yet.

But, already having a Beretta 92FS, my AUG was delivered today, my firearms goal for 2024 is to get an MP5 clone to be able to properly watch Die Hard.

I should make a video how I operate it; it actually makes sense the way it's set up...at least for the inside mag. It can be done quickly and smoothly, keeping your trigger hand in position. Basically, grasp the mag in your offhand the way you might a mag on your belt if you were going to do a tactical reload, then use your index finger to operate the release.

The outside mag is blocked by my arm holding the gun, though, requiring a slightly awkward maneuver to release it.

A lot of people with some basic firearm experience don’t hit stuff that well with a pistol.

A lot of pistol shooters with more experience still are not all the high a percentage of hits at 50m, 100m, etc.

People that can’t hit shit with a pistol get way more hits with a carbine and a red dot.
People that are pretty good with a pistol at closer ranges but iffy at 50, 100M tend to nail stuff at hose ranges just fine with a carbine and a red dot.

A carbine with a red dot that is compatible with your main pistol magazines is pretty handy to have.
You can hand it to a family member who’s not all that great with a pistol and they become more lethal.
You can grab it and be more lethal at 100m than with your pistol.

Your typical 9mm 124gr at 1150 fps are now 1300 fps.
Your .40s 1050fps 180 grains from your pistol are now 1200fps.
Your 1350fps 357s 158 grains are now 1750fps.

Your SUB 2Ks, or even CX4s, in my opinion are going to hold up to night after night of banging around in the back of a Pandur, Stryker, or Helo, busting your ass in the mountains of Afghanistan, or climbing under fences, over walls, and banging around in a house in a city in Iraq, etc.

But as a truck, tractor, trunk, backpack, etc. gun, home defense gun, or playing roof Korean and range trips should be just fine.

I have had a few sub2ks.
Which had the exact functional reliability a blowback carbine is going to have.
If yo get one that won’t feed because they didn’t bevel the chamber, or the safety sticks and can’t be manipulated, which I have seen, you send it back and it will be returned to you with normal function.
If you get a CX4 get a spare magwell insert and mag release, if you use it a lot you will wear those pieces.
If you get an AK9 or something, you will eventually beat up the magwell insert too much for it to stay in.

Again, most 9mm pistol mag compatible carbines are not going to be on par with the durability of some other designs.
But, they will be just fine for a SD backup.

I would rather see a wonderfully made SS S&W carbine that takes 3rd Gen mags, or a beautifully blued Beretta carbine with nice wood that takes 92 magazines, with fine delayed action, etc. but the price points would be like $2,087 or something.

The Henry is aiming at the Marlin Camp 9 replacement w/ pretty wood, but straight blowback operation at a price double or more for the SUB, and triple a HiPoint.  All 3 will deliver rounds where you need em, albeit the Henry may need some fiddling to do that.

Yes

I have the S&W 9mm FPC.  I can hit 12x12 steel plates 9 of 10 at 100 yds standing with Red Dot,  as I have mentioned before.

  It’s the same Red Dot as my AR15, so same sight picture.  I can practice much cheaper with my FPC than with my AR15.

 Something no one has mentioned is the ease of reloading 9mm vs 223.

They are fun and can serve a purpose.

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I don't see the point of a 9mm PCC when compared with an intermediate cartridge rifle (ballistically superior) or a semi-auto 22, such as a 10/22 (cheap ammo). That being said, the Ruger PC-9 is the only one on that list that would pique my interest.

Sweet!  Off to go in search of…

I bought the AP5 during Arfcom's AP5 Madness Days.

It's been flawless, comfortable, accurate and easy to shoot. Now that I'm no longer in Illinois, I'm going to get a tax stamp to SBR it.

Uzi is the answer

I may have been late to the subcaliber handgun carbine.
Camp 9 and .45 owner ,bought both for $200.
Worst case was selling a Camp 9 stainless with 3 20 round mags.
$400

Man, I would kill for a Swedish K, or a sterling

I had two Camp 45s and sold both of them when prices started to climb; one a plain stock and the other the pressed checkered stock.  I couldn't really figure a "use" for them at the time and I needed the money for ammo since I was shooting competitions on the weekends I was off.  I kick myself for selling both of them although parts are all but impossible to get now if you were to need anything- if I'd had any sense I'd have kept the fancier of the two and had the barrel threaded.  Regret about those Marlin is one of the reasons I almost never sell guns anymore, even if I don't like or shoot them- like the Sub2000 sitting in the back of the safe.   To be fair, yeah, I'd sell it if I wasn't too lazy to deal with it; I've yet to regret selling any other KT product I've had.

Not a stupid idea.  Buy what you want and have fun.  There is always the never ending debate on whether they are good for self defense or not.  I have an MPX and it's the favorite gun of everyone when we are out shooting.  And it's the one gun my son says I'm not allowed to ever sell.

At a pistol match?  Yes, stupid idea.

For fun at the range, it's ok.

I bought the Ruger PC Carbine for this reason.  I reload 9mm a lot.  I do not reload any necked cartridges.  350 legend is the only rifle cartridge I reload for.  

Now I have a carbine that takes the same mags and ammo as all of my pistols.  Saves money in the long run only having to stock 4 calibers and reloading components for 3 of those (22lr, 9mm, 12ga, and 350 legend).

I have a Colt AR 9mm, and a Ruger PC with the Magpul stock. The Magpul really changes the feel and balance of the rifle for the better.
Fun, accurate, cheap to shoot.
And as far as defense goes, if a 9mm pistol is OK, a 9mm carbine is a little more OK-er. First choice I'd choose? Probably not, but if it what I grabbed at the time of need, I wouldn't feel like it was not going to do the job.

If I could do it over it would be mp5sd out the gate.  The Teutonic magic is real.

And it’s okay to have fun. Guns are fun.  SHTF/TEOTWAWKI you can only shoot one gun at a time, you won’t live long enough to blast through your ammo stash so 2 ARs and the rest fun guns is perfectly logical IMO

Hipoint bullpup? Check!

The only one that makes sense is an MP5.

Everything else is just a hi point with better magazines

I don't think you've been keeping up w/ developments in the delayed-blowback world.

I have. The Mp5 is still the king.

Because they know they are and are just looking for validation.

There fun Range toys, nothing more. And that's fine.

B&T APC9k with glock mags is the best pcc

And he gives it a second chance after it was “fixed”

Hitting anything fast and accurately is overrated

They're relatively inexpensive to shoot and easy to suppress.   If you're going suppressed a lot of the intermediate cartridges lose a lot of their advantages.   300 Blackout will work, but it's far more expensive.  9mm in that case is going to be more effective than a 22 if you actually have to shoot something.

I think it's ironic that the only Henry I like is their 9mm carbine.

Gives off a Winchester 351 vibe

I reached the same conclusion.  I had a SR9 in my vehicle back when the Bakken was out of control.  Then I saw the American flag version of the PCC and had to have it.  It goes with too.  I put a Romeo 5 on it and impressed with its 100 yard accuracy.  I had never shot 9mm beyond pistol ranges so to get 9mm out to 100m was a treat.

I have several New Frontier Armory C5’s, and they’be been fun.

The problem is the blowback action eats up any velocity/energy advantage a longer barrel should deliver. The positive is simple and more reliable.

That said, the Marlin Camp 9 was/is a nice PCC. It’s downfall by todays standards is using only S&W magazines, after police agencies started transitioning to other vendors pistols. And factory buffer blocks deteriorated and crumbled. There are better replacements available for them today.

GHM9 master race

this

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If you don't already have an AP5. You are probably not paying attention

Wait until you shoot the bottom one in an enclosed space.

The PCC's days are long over, but there's still some areas where they cant be beat

We should run some in house, drywall penetration drills with PPCs.

the average contact distance with a bad guy is 5 yards

a suppressed 5 inch AR9 shooting Blazer
is prolly the appropriate militia arm for home defense and vermin removal

Of the options you listed - Ruger for me. I like the modularity and mag compatibility.


Started with an AP5, tried a Henry X and now I'm back to a PTR 9. I think a 9/.357 suppressor host is a new staple in my lineup just like a reliable AR, G19 or Ruger Mk IV.


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I like my kp9 SBR
It’s handy.

When I was looking at PCC’s, I liked the paddle style mag release over the side button like on a Glock mag compatible firearm.
And honestly, I didn’t want an ar platform or ar style controls for a pcc.

Those you listed, I wouldn’t take any of those if they were free.

I dig the top one!

you can make the mp5 into a pcc, I believe in you

When you say PCC, so you mean an actual 16" barrel, or does that include "subguns"?

16" barrel?  I would not say it is stupid, just EXTREMLEY niche....unless you are talking .357 lever action.

Subguns have their own niche as well, but 300blk (and Mk18's) have cut into this niche.  There seems to be limited options for high quality, non-blow back subguns that don't cost an arm and leg....not to mention all of the specific parts.

Basically....why buy a subgun when I can roll my own 6" or 7" or 8" 300blk using one of the random Poverty Pony or PSA Meme lowers laying around?

But, that does not mean that a subgun with some 124gr+P HST's can't stop a bad guy.  I think the "smaller package weapon" is more suited to how American's them for self-defense.

What?

I have. It sucks. Which is why a K can lives on it now. But that’s true about all inside firearms. Even 22 is angry inside a house.

I was in a shooting event. I choose power over noise every time. The rattler with supers throws 3x the energy of the 9mm, and makes rifle wounds inside ~50 yards. I’ll take that noise over continued aggression any day.