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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:13:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He failed to mention that the claimed association made it immediately obvious that the source was unreliable for the stated purpose. is your codename "SPYDER"? 
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:14:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Military aged males aren’t combatants unless engaged in certain activities, enrolled, enlisted or commissioned in certain groups or uniformed. Killing a 40 year old man in civilian clothing who is standing in his yard is almost certainly a war crime. I’m not advocating for it but I understand how a military might look at that 40 year old civilian as a future threat he is permitted to return to Ukrainian government because of the policy of the Ukrainian government. The war crimes here will in all likelihood never be addressed much less prosecuted unless the Russian government collapses. That is a clear measure of their resolve and one that needs to be understood by the rest of the world. I do look at this as a clear indication that the Russian government and the Russian military command have abandoned any concept of legal warfare and will be returning to the dark roots of warfare to break the UA, the Ukrainian government, and the Ukrainian people. The world either needs to acknowledge they really meant never again and get serious, or our grandchildren will be reading about second Holocaust. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:14:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's all debatable. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:18:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s all debatable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is a pretty transparent attempt to lump all "I'm not willing to side with Ukraine or Russia in this conflict and I don't believe what the media on either side is telling us" with the "crazy Q tards" and "Alex Jones retards". Yours must also be a Shareblue shill account, this is blatant propagandizing/manipulation. Yours must also be a Shareblue shill account, this is blatant propagandizing/manipulation. One trick pony here. Just accuse everyone of being a paid shill and you don't have to engage in the argument. I engage in the argument elsewhere. On these posts you quoted I am simply addressing the propaganda technique being utilized. America is best country, America does no wrong, if you don’t like or question anything your masters do then you need to get out! Literally nobody has said anything even remotely close to this. The US does bad and retarded shit all the time, but nowhere near as bad and retarded as Russia. I disagree, our country has done some pretty atrocious things. Then again I’ve never lived in Russia. I literally said above that our government has done terrible things. If you think we've done anything on the same level as Russia, then you are ignorant of history- especially if we're looking at the last 70 years or so. Nothing comes even close. Let's even talk about their own troops. Hell, I went to AFG and IRQ in 2008 and 2010 with better gear AS A POGUE than Russian infantrymen have in 2022. We destabilized a big part of the middle east. If we had left things alone ISIS would never have came into being. I would imagine the death toll from our actions is in the 100s of thousands between Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya. We bombed the fuck out of the former Yugoslavia and the people Bill Clinton bombed in bimbo eruptions. We're conducted drone strike all over killing who knows how many innocent bystanders. Ya'll were saying about attacking sovereign countries? The US has no room to criticize Russia. Yes we've done all those things, which all pale against things Russia has done, and is doing right now. I could list those things if you like, but I'm sure it won't matter to you. It’s all debatable. Anything is debatable, there's still clearly a right answer. Pseudointellectualism. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:19:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: definitely not a nihilist, but do admit being a terribly skeptical person; it goes hand-in-hand with being a critical, independent thinker certainly not one for prescribing to whatever flavor of "mob group think" is being served for the day; even if it is dressed up as being something technical and analytical Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nobody said that. But you can make some reasonable conclusions if you put a little effort into it. Regardless, there are ACTUAL intel experts looking at the OSINT and offering their 2 cents. While some may be wrong, it's a lot smarter than "I refuse to believe anything ever". no kidding... there https://miro.medium.com/max/1206/1*DjlaKvdytRQzRlbXuXEJ7g.png Got it, so you refuse to believe anything, ever. definitely not a nihilist, but do admit being a terribly skeptical person; it goes hand-in-hand with being a critical, independent thinker certainly not one for prescribing to whatever flavor of "mob group think" is being served for the day; even if it is dressed up as being something technical and analytical You're not paying attention. Nothing about this is mob or group think, the evidence is there, you just refuse to look at it. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:21:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: quite certain I was paying attention... obvious how the misuse starts in OSINT... cherry pick sources that fit narrative; don't acknowledge ones that don't Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you had been paying attention at all then you would have noted multiple people stressing the importance of using multiple sources to validate information and vetting the sources to determine which most consistently provide useful and accurate data and/or analysis. Personally, I don't lean on provided analysis as much as provided data. quite certain I was paying attention... obvious how the misuse starts in OSINT... cherry pick sources that fit narrative; don't acknowledge ones that don't No, he's right. You are not paying attention. There is MUCH discussion about what sources are providing good info, what info itself is good, what is verified, and what is not. You're not participating in it though, so you have ZERO clue what is actually happening. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:21:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's also completely immaterial. Countries do bad things to other people all the time to maintain power and economic dominance. Whether Russia is killing civilians or not is utterly irrelevant to whether or not it is in the United State's best interests to provide weapons and support to Ukraine, and whether it is in the US' best interests to push the intervention to another level. Any decisions that are being made are not taking that into calculation in any meaningful fashion. These stories are for public consumption, not strategic decision making. Enjoy the distraction. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's all debatable. I agree. The end goal is no doubt to keep influencing countries to sell their souls and keep a thumb on others that don’t play along. Western civilization being built on natural resources has to continue to source and secure those resources as their economies and population increases the demand on those resources. It’s a game where someone, wether it be the US or China for example will rule the world for a brief period. In the end none of this is sustainable. That being said, me and mine want no part of the shit. Should I mention the ‘Y’ word again 
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:22:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anything is debatable, there's still clearly a right answer. Pseudointellectualism. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is a pretty transparent attempt to lump all "I'm not willing to side with Ukraine or Russia in this conflict and I don't believe what the media on either side is telling us" with the "crazy Q tards" and "Alex Jones retards". Yours must also be a Shareblue shill account, this is blatant propagandizing/manipulation. Yours must also be a Shareblue shill account, this is blatant propagandizing/manipulation. One trick pony here. Just accuse everyone of being a paid shill and you don't have to engage in the argument. I engage in the argument elsewhere. On these posts you quoted I am simply addressing the propaganda technique being utilized. America is best country, America does no wrong, if you don’t like or question anything your masters do then you need to get out! Literally nobody has said anything even remotely close to this. The US does bad and retarded shit all the time, but nowhere near as bad and retarded as Russia. I disagree, our country has done some pretty atrocious things. Then again I’ve never lived in Russia. I literally said above that our government has done terrible things. If you think we've done anything on the same level as Russia, then you are ignorant of history- especially if we're looking at the last 70 years or so. Nothing comes even close. Let's even talk about their own troops. Hell, I went to AFG and IRQ in 2008 and 2010 with better gear AS A POGUE than Russian infantrymen have in 2022. We destabilized a big part of the middle east. If we had left things alone ISIS would never have came into being. I would imagine the death toll from our actions is in the 100s of thousands between Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya. We bombed the fuck out of the former Yugoslavia and the people Bill Clinton bombed in bimbo eruptions. We're conducted drone strike all over killing who knows how many innocent bystanders. Ya'll were saying about attacking sovereign countries? The US has no room to criticize Russia. Yes we've done all those things, which all pale against things Russia has done, and is doing right now. I could list those things if you like, but I'm sure it won't matter to you. It’s all debatable. Anything is debatable, there's still clearly a right answer. Pseudointellectualism. I don’t believe the answers are clear. Everyone has their biases, including you. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:22:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: quite certain I was paying attention... obvious how the misuse starts in OSINT... cherry pick sources that fit narrative; don't acknowledge ones that don't Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you had been paying attention at all then you would have noted multiple people stressing the importance of using multiple sources to validate information and vetting the sources to determine which most consistently provide useful and accurate data and/or analysis. Personally, I don't lean on provided analysis as much as provided data. quite certain I was paying attention... obvious how the misuse starts in OSINT... cherry pick sources that fit narrative; don't acknowledge ones that don't That's called projection. What you suggest is simply taking what is offered at face value with no attempt at independent validation. Which makes this about the sixth time I have told you that is not how this works. Which means you're not really paying attention at all. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:24:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t believe the answers are clear. Everyone has their biases, including you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is a pretty transparent attempt to lump all "I'm not willing to side with Ukraine or Russia in this conflict and I don't believe what the media on either side is telling us" with the "crazy Q tards" and "Alex Jones retards". Yours must also be a Shareblue shill account, this is blatant propagandizing/manipulation. Yours must also be a Shareblue shill account, this is blatant propagandizing/manipulation. One trick pony here. Just accuse everyone of being a paid shill and you don't have to engage in the argument. I engage in the argument elsewhere. On these posts you quoted I am simply addressing the propaganda technique being utilized. America is best country, America does no wrong, if you don’t like or question anything your masters do then you need to get out! Literally nobody has said anything even remotely close to this. The US does bad and retarded shit all the time, but nowhere near as bad and retarded as Russia. I disagree, our country has done some pretty atrocious things. Then again I’ve never lived in Russia. I literally said above that our government has done terrible things. If you think we've done anything on the same level as Russia, then you are ignorant of history- especially if we're looking at the last 70 years or so. Nothing comes even close. Let's even talk about their own troops. Hell, I went to AFG and IRQ in 2008 and 2010 with better gear AS A POGUE than Russian infantrymen have in 2022. We destabilized a big part of the middle east. If we had left things alone ISIS would never have came into being. I would imagine the death toll from our actions is in the 100s of thousands between Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya. We bombed the fuck out of the former Yugoslavia and the people Bill Clinton bombed in bimbo eruptions. We're conducted drone strike all over killing who knows how many innocent bystanders. Ya'll were saying about attacking sovereign countries? The US has no room to criticize Russia. Yes we've done all those things, which all pale against things Russia has done, and is doing right now. I could list those things if you like, but I'm sure it won't matter to you. It’s all debatable. Anything is debatable, there's still clearly a right answer. Pseudointellectualism. I don’t believe the answers are clear. Everyone has their biases, including you. They are clear if you are at any level aware of the history of the last 70 years. It's not even close. Nothing we have done is even remotely in the same ballpark, and we've done some bad shit. If you TRULY think this, then you need to educate yourself. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:28:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're not paying attention. Nothing about this is mob or group think, the evidence is there, you just refuse to look at it. evidence?  I don't need OSINT to know that Russia factually did violate its neighboring sovereign state Ukraine by invading I don't need OSINT to hold opinion that Ukraine is entitled to its right for self-determination I don't need OSINT to know RT is a Russian State Media that engages in propaganda mindcraft/psyops I certainly don't need OSINT to precisely geolocate a Russian helicopter I don't need OSINT to think Russia deserves whatever they have coming to them I'd keep going but it seems pointless |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:30:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: quite certain I was paying attention... obvious how the misuse starts in OSINT... cherry pick sources that fit narrative; don't acknowledge ones that don't Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you had been paying attention at all then you would have noted multiple people stressing the importance of using multiple sources to validate information and vetting the sources to determine which most consistently provide useful and accurate data and/or analysis. Personally, I don't lean on provided analysis as much as provided data. quite certain I was paying attention... obvious how the misuse starts in OSINT... cherry pick sources that fit narrative; don't acknowledge ones that don't So based on the aggregate of information available what is your assessment of the situation to date? |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:31:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's called projection. What you suggest is simply taking what is offered at face value with no attempt at independent validation. Which makes this about the sixth time I have told you that is not how this works. Which means you're not really paying attention at all. sorry but you don't seem to understand projection you can tell us a seventh time if you want and keep the fallacies flowing |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:34:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So based on the aggregate of information available what is your assessment of the situation to date? the assessment of the situation to date is that quite a few of you characters are entirely FOS if you are generally asking in regards to Ukraine, see above; otherwise be more specific |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:37:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: evidence? I don't need OSINT to know that Russia factually did violate its neighboring sovereign state Ukraine by invading I don't need OSINT to hold opinion that Ukraine is entitled to its right for self-determination I don't need OSINT to know RT is a Russian State Media that engages in propaganda mindcraft/psyops I certainly don't need OSINT to precisely geolocate a Russian helicopter I don't need OSINT to think Russia deserves whatever they have coming to them I'd keep going but it seems pointless Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You're not paying attention. Nothing about this is mob or group think, the evidence is there, you just refuse to look at it. evidence? I don't need OSINT to know that Russia factually did violate its neighboring sovereign state Ukraine by invading I don't need OSINT to hold opinion that Ukraine is entitled to its right for self-determination I don't need OSINT to know RT is a Russian State Media that engages in propaganda mindcraft/psyops I certainly don't need OSINT to precisely geolocate a Russian helicopter I don't need OSINT to think Russia deserves whatever they have coming to them I'd keep going but it seems pointless Laugh all you want, but yes, evidence. Pointless indeed, some people refuse to open their eyes. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:38:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the assessment of the situation to date is that quite a few of you characters are entirely FOS if you are generally asking in regards to Ukraine, see above; otherwise be more specific Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So based on the aggregate of information available what is your assessment of the situation to date? the assessment of the situation to date is that quite a few of you characters are entirely FOS if you are generally asking in regards to Ukraine, see above; otherwise be more specific You wouldn't know who is full of shit since you refuse to look at the evidence that we are. Oh well, keep making a fool of yourself. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:39:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: sorry but you don't seem to understand projection you can tell us a seventh time if you want and keep the fallacies flowing Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's called projection. What you suggest is simply taking what is offered at face value with no attempt at independent validation. Which makes this about the sixth time I have told you that is not how this works. Which means you're not really paying attention at all. sorry but you don't seem to understand projection you can tell us a seventh time if you want and keep the fallacies flowing Go ahead and point out one fallacious thing I have said here. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:40:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You wouldn't know who is full of shit since you refuse to look at the evidence that we are. Oh well, keep making a fool of yourself. what evidence do you want that I look at it? eta: lets start here; good chance I have already looked at much of it |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:42:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Go ahead and point out one fallacious thing I have said here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's called projection. What you suggest is simply taking what is offered at face value with no attempt at independent validation. Which makes this about the sixth time I have told you that is not how this works. Which means you're not really paying attention at all. sorry but you don't seem to understand projection you can tell us a seventh time if you want and keep the fallacies flowing Go ahead and point out one fallacious thing I have said here. who's the one not paying attention? |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:45:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: who's the one not paying attention? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's called projection. What you suggest is simply taking what is offered at face value with no attempt at independent validation. Which makes this about the sixth time I have told you that is not how this works. Which means you're not really paying attention at all. sorry but you don't seem to understand projection you can tell us a seventh time if you want and keep the fallacies flowing Go ahead and point out one fallacious thing I have said here. who's the one not paying attention? Established and confirmed through evidentiary analysis by multiple sources. It’s you. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:46:32 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Established and confirmed through evidentiary analysis by multiple sources. It’s you. what sources are those? |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:47:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what sources are those? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Established and confirmed through evidentiary analysis by multiple sources. It’s you. what sources are those? Case in point. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:48:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what evidence do you want that I look at it? eta: lets start here; good chance I have already looked at much of it Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You wouldn't know who is full of shit since you refuse to look at the evidence that we are. Oh well, keep making a fool of yourself. what evidence do you want that I look at it? eta: lets start here; good chance I have already looked at much of it Start with the 1,500 page thread, there is a ton of good info there. Then check the the twitter accounts that are linked, and the same with telegram. Those link to a variety of sources that will give you enough info to make reasonable conclusions without absurd claims like UKR is tying up and killing their own people. If you say you've already checked it, then I don't believe you. It's clear by what you're saying that you have no fucking clue what's going on. https://understandingwar.org/ That's another good one |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:48:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Case in point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Established and confirmed through evidentiary analysis by multiple sources. It’s you. what sources are those? Case in point. how about I take a stab at it? .........multiple independent twitter OSINT accounts |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:49:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: how about I take a stab at it? .........multiple independent twitter OSINT accounts Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Established and confirmed through evidentiary analysis by multiple sources. It’s you. what sources are those? Case in point. how about I take a stab at it? .........multiple independent twitter OSINT accounts And the fallacy? |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:51:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the fallacy? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Established and confirmed through evidentiary analysis by multiple sources. It’s you. what sources are those? Case in point. how about I take a stab at it? .........multiple independent twitter OSINT accounts And the fallacy? He sees "twitter" and assumes it's a bunch of idiots dancing or whatever, without understanding what we're talking about. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:53:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Start with the 1,500 page thread, there is a ton of good info there. Then check the the twitter accounts that are linked, and the same with telegram. Those link to a variety of sources that will give you enough info to make reasonable conclusions without absurd claims like UKR is tying up and killing their own people. If you say you've already checked it, then I don't believe you. It's clear by what you're saying that you have no fucking clue what's going on. https://understandingwar.org/ That's another good one Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You wouldn't know who is full of shit since you refuse to look at the evidence that we are. Oh well, keep making a fool of yourself. what evidence do you want that I look at it? eta: lets start here; good chance I have already looked at much of it Start with the 1,500 page thread, there is a ton of good info there. Then check the the twitter accounts that are linked, and the same with telegram. Those link to a variety of sources that will give you enough info to make reasonable conclusions without absurd claims like UKR is tying up and killing their own people. If you say you've already checked it, then I don't believe you. It's clear by what you're saying that you have no fucking clue what's going on. https://understandingwar.org/ That's another good one no no no. you are not getting off that easy. you need to be more specific I have been following that 1500 page ARFCOM threads linking twitter OSINTS; hardly vetted and validated intel; mostly an echo-chamber of individuals trying to be influencers |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:53:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He sees "twitter" and assumes it's a bunch of idiots dancing or whatever, without understanding what we're talking about. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Established and confirmed through evidentiary analysis by multiple sources. It’s you. what sources are those? Case in point. how about I take a stab at it? .........multiple independent twitter OSINT accounts And the fallacy? He sees "twitter" and assumes it's a bunch of idiots dancing or whatever, without understanding what we're talking about. He’s stacking up to draw a parallel with what the Qbros were passing off as OSINT without bothering to address the testing and validation process that happens with good faith actors. ETA: And there it is. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:56:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He’s stacking up to draw a parallel with what the Qbros were passing off as OSINT without bothering to address the testing and validation process that happens with good faith actors. ETA: And there it is. You said it man... OSINTbros are the new Qbros |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:58:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: no no no. you are not getting off that easy. you need to be more specific I have been following that 1500 page ARFCOM threads linking twitter OSINTS; hardly vetted and validated intel; mostly an echo-chamber of individuals trying to be influencers Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You wouldn't know who is full of shit since you refuse to look at the evidence that we are. Oh well, keep making a fool of yourself. what evidence do you want that I look at it? eta: lets start here; good chance I have already looked at much of it Start with the 1,500 page thread, there is a ton of good info there. Then check the the twitter accounts that are linked, and the same with telegram. Those link to a variety of sources that will give you enough info to make reasonable conclusions without absurd claims like UKR is tying up and killing their own people. If you say you've already checked it, then I don't believe you. It's clear by what you're saying that you have no fucking clue what's going on. https://understandingwar.org/ That's another good one no no no. you are not getting off that easy. you need to be more specific I have been following that 1500 page ARFCOM threads linking twitter OSINTS; hardly vetted and validated intel; mostly an echo-chamber of individuals trying to be influencers I don't "need" to do anything. I put in my own legwork, so can you. I'm not going to link every worthwhile twitter account, telegram channel and website because you're too lazy to read the thread that contains them all. Of that 1,500 pages, I've read about 1,200 pages of it and I missed some only because I was in Turkey, Georgia and Poland and couldn't keep up. Put in the work, I'm not doing it for you. Regardless, I gave you one great resource above. Ignore the fact that it's twitter. Consider the information there- captured maps and documents, destroyed vehicles that helps us account, posthumous awards serialized in order which helps us account KIA, captured audio, etc. You dismiss it because it's "twitter". Remain ignorant if you want, it's not my problem. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 5:58:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He’s stacking up to draw a parallel with what the Qbros were passing off as OSINT without bothering to address the testing and validation process that happens with good faith actors. ETA: And there it is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Established and confirmed through evidentiary analysis by multiple sources. It’s you. what sources are those? Case in point. how about I take a stab at it? .........multiple independent twitter OSINT accounts And the fallacy? He sees "twitter" and assumes it's a bunch of idiots dancing or whatever, without understanding what we're talking about. He’s stacking up to draw a parallel with what the Qbros were passing off as OSINT without bothering to address the testing and validation process that happens with good faith actors. ETA: And there it is. haha nailed it. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:01:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Common sense mostly. Were the buildings in ruins from arty? nope, not in Bucha. Are you suggesting Ukrainians snuck into an occupied town, tied their own people up, then killed them? Ever hear of occams razor? There is tons of evidence Russia did this. None that UKR did. Why is this so important to you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah I already pointed out the info around those. Corroborated with sat images. Again, nobody is disputing the presence of bodies. What matters is who killed them, when, and how. Has it occurred to you that they may have been casualties of Ukrainian artillery? Casualties of both Russian and Ukrainian artillery? The bodies are there. We can see that. The details and explanations attached to those bodies are words and propaganda, much like the bombed-out building in Iraq was a "baby milk factory" after it was blown up. There's at least one more possibility, Ukrainians using this to settle scores, there's factions that hate each other, could be the pro Ukraines killed the pro Russians, the pro Russia side killed the pro Ukraine side. Could be innocent bystanders caught in the fighting. Could be the Russians picked some civilians and clapped them for the hell of it. Neither one of us knows, that's for sure and probably never know. Except for the part where the bodies were piled there while Russia controlled the town. We keep glossing over that part. How does that preclude them from being killed by other Ukrainians? I'm not saying they were, just that they could have been. You or I either one don't know what happened. Common sense mostly. Were the buildings in ruins from arty? nope, not in Bucha. Are you suggesting Ukrainians snuck into an occupied town, tied their own people up, then killed them? Ever hear of occams razor? There is tons of evidence Russia did this. None that UKR did. Why is this so important to you? In other words, you have no more idea than I do. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:03:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't "need" to do anything. I put in my own legwork, so can you. I'm not going to link every worthwhile twitter account, telegram channel and website because you're too lazy to read the thread that contains them all. Of that 1,500 pages, I've read about 1,200 pages of it and I missed some only because I was in Turkey, Georgia and Poland and couldn't keep up. Put in the work, I'm not doing it for you. Regardless, I gave you one great resource above. Ignore the fact that it's twitter. Consider the information there- captured maps and documents, destroyed vehicles that helps us account, posthumous awards serialized in order which helps us account KIA, captured audio, etc. You dismiss it because it's "twitter". Remain ignorant if you want, it's not my problem. is your brain in a malfunction? do you need to take your meds? what specifically is the evidence you want to me to see? i haven't dismissed anything. you are telling me to look at 1500 pages. what did you want me to see exactly? |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:03:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You said it man... OSINTbros are the new Qbros Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He’s stacking up to draw a parallel with what the Qbros were passing off as OSINT without bothering to address the testing and validation process that happens with good faith actors. ETA: And there it is. You said it man... OSINTbros are the new Qbros Here’s a good exercise for you. Go track down a handful of accounts that assert that Russia is responsible for Bucha and a handful that say that Ukraine is responsible. See which ones show their work and how much of that work passes a basic sniff test. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:04:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In other words, you have no more idea than I do. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah I already pointed out the info around those. Corroborated with sat images. Again, nobody is disputing the presence of bodies. What matters is who killed them, when, and how. Has it occurred to you that they may have been casualties of Ukrainian artillery? Casualties of both Russian and Ukrainian artillery? The bodies are there. We can see that. The details and explanations attached to those bodies are words and propaganda, much like the bombed-out building in Iraq was a "baby milk factory" after it was blown up. There's at least one more possibility, Ukrainians using this to settle scores, there's factions that hate each other, could be the pro Ukraines killed the pro Russians, the pro Russia side killed the pro Ukraine side. Could be innocent bystanders caught in the fighting. Could be the Russians picked some civilians and clapped them for the hell of it. Neither one of us knows, that's for sure and probably never know. Except for the part where the bodies were piled there while Russia controlled the town. We keep glossing over that part. How does that preclude them from being killed by other Ukrainians? I'm not saying they were, just that they could have been. You or I either one don't know what happened. Common sense mostly. Were the buildings in ruins from arty? nope, not in Bucha. Are you suggesting Ukrainians snuck into an occupied town, tied their own people up, then killed them? Ever hear of occams razor? There is tons of evidence Russia did this. None that UKR did. Why is this so important to you? In other words, you have no more idea than I do. If that's what you took from my post then I can't help you. A lot of people have a much better idea that you do. The info is all there for you to see. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:04:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here’s a good exercise for you. Go track down a handful of accounts that assert that Russia is responsible for Bucha and a handful that say that Ukraine is responsible. See which ones show their work and how much of that work passes a basic sniff test. without even having to look, the answer is russia you need OSINT for this? bwahahahahaha |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:08:14 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: is your brain in a malfunction? do you need to take your meds? what specifically is the evidence you want to me to see? i haven't dismissed anything. you are telling me to look at 1500 pages. what did you want me to see exactly? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't "need" to do anything. I put in my own legwork, so can you. I'm not going to link every worthwhile twitter account, telegram channel and website because you're too lazy to read the thread that contains them all. Of that 1,500 pages, I've read about 1,200 pages of it and I missed some only because I was in Turkey, Georgia and Poland and couldn't keep up. Put in the work, I'm not doing it for you. Regardless, I gave you one great resource above. Ignore the fact that it's twitter. Consider the information there- captured maps and documents, destroyed vehicles that helps us account, posthumous awards serialized in order which helps us account KIA, captured audio, etc. You dismiss it because it's "twitter". Remain ignorant if you want, it's not my problem. is your brain in a malfunction? do you need to take your meds? what specifically is the evidence you want to me to see? i haven't dismissed anything. you are telling me to look at 1500 pages. what did you want me to see exactly? That's an odd tactic, why are you pretending that I'm the unhinged one? Because I'm not going to link thousands of pieces of evidence for you? I've already mentioned many pieces of evidence. They're all in the thread, linked from various places. Go find it. If it was ONE thing, I'd link it...but it's not- it's thousands, so you're going to have to put in the effort yourself, like we did. I'm not going to consolidate it all for you just because you're lazy. Start with the big thread or the website I linked above. You're continually dismissing everything said, but I'm the one with a brain malfunction. Okay. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:09:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let me ask you this simple question. Have the Russians earned the benefit of doubt? You and I both know they have not. Ever. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah I already pointed out the info around those. Corroborated with sat images. Again, nobody is disputing the presence of bodies. What matters is who killed them, when, and how. Has it occurred to you that they may have been casualties of Ukrainian artillery? Casualties of both Russian and Ukrainian artillery? The bodies are there. We can see that. The details and explanations attached to those bodies are words and propaganda, much like the bombed-out building in Iraq was a "baby milk factory" after it was blown up. There's at least one more possibility, Ukrainians using this to settle scores, there's factions that hate each other, could be the pro Ukraines killed the pro Russians, the pro Russia side killed the pro Ukraine side. Could be innocent bystanders caught in the fighting. Could be the Russians picked some civilians and clapped them for the hell of it. Neither one of us knows, that's for sure and probably never know. Except for the part where the bodies were piled there while Russia controlled the town. We keep glossing over that part. How does that preclude them from being killed by other Ukrainians? I'm not saying they were, just that they could have been. You or I either one don't know what happened. Let me ask you this simple question. Have the Russians earned the benefit of doubt? You and I both know they have not. Ever. And what have the Ukrainians done to earn the benefit of doubt? Just because one side's bad doesn't make the other side good, a concept I think a lot of the western world has a problem with. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:10:28 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: without even having to look, the answer is russia you need OSINT for this? bwahahahahaha Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here’s a good exercise for you. Go track down a handful of accounts that assert that Russia is responsible for Bucha and a handful that say that Ukraine is responsible. See which ones show their work and how much of that work passes a basic sniff test. without even having to look, the answer is russia you need OSINT for this? bwahahahahaha Huh, so you agree with us. Why are you arguing so vehemently then? And yes, I like to see some evidence before I believe things. It's weird now that you're claiming you didn't need any evidence to believe Russia did it, when previously you argued that we "can't really know". At any rate, I'm glad to see you've come around. Maybe we can put this to rest now that you agree. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:11:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And what have the Ukrainians done to earn the benefit of doubt? Just because one side's bad doesn't make the other side good, a concept I think a lot of the western world has a problem with. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah I already pointed out the info around those. Corroborated with sat images. Again, nobody is disputing the presence of bodies. What matters is who killed them, when, and how. Has it occurred to you that they may have been casualties of Ukrainian artillery? Casualties of both Russian and Ukrainian artillery? The bodies are there. We can see that. The details and explanations attached to those bodies are words and propaganda, much like the bombed-out building in Iraq was a "baby milk factory" after it was blown up. There's at least one more possibility, Ukrainians using this to settle scores, there's factions that hate each other, could be the pro Ukraines killed the pro Russians, the pro Russia side killed the pro Ukraine side. Could be innocent bystanders caught in the fighting. Could be the Russians picked some civilians and clapped them for the hell of it. Neither one of us knows, that's for sure and probably never know. Except for the part where the bodies were piled there while Russia controlled the town. We keep glossing over that part. How does that preclude them from being killed by other Ukrainians? I'm not saying they were, just that they could have been. You or I either one don't know what happened. Let me ask you this simple question. Have the Russians earned the benefit of doubt? You and I both know they have not. Ever. And what have the Ukrainians done to earn the benefit of doubt? Just because one side's bad doesn't make the other side good, a concept I think a lot of the western world has a problem with. Well....they're not the ones invading another country and killing their civilians for one. Just for starters...do...do you need more? |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:12:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: without even having to look, the answer is russia you need OSINT for this? bwahahahahaha Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here’s a good exercise for you. Go track down a handful of accounts that assert that Russia is responsible for Bucha and a handful that say that Ukraine is responsible. See which ones show their work and how much of that work passes a basic sniff test. without even having to look, the answer is russia you need OSINT for this? bwahahahahaha Gee, and here I thought you were taking the stance that nothing can be taken at face value. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:14:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gee, and here I thought you were taking the stance that nothing can be taken at face value. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here’s a good exercise for you. Go track down a handful of accounts that assert that Russia is responsible for Bucha and a handful that say that Ukraine is responsible. See which ones show their work and how much of that work passes a basic sniff test. without even having to look, the answer is russia you need OSINT for this? bwahahahahaha Gee, and here I thought you were taking the stance that nothing can be taken at face value. Do you have evidence he actually took that stance? Were you there? Maybe his cat typed it out on the keyboard, or maybe you confused him with someone else. Maybe you hacked his account and posted it. You don't REALLY know. One thing is for certain though- it's all your fault. ETA also Nazis. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:19:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well....they're not the ones invading another country and killing their civilians for one. Just for starters...do...do you need more? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah I already pointed out the info around those. Corroborated with sat images. Again, nobody is disputing the presence of bodies. What matters is who killed them, when, and how. Has it occurred to you that they may have been casualties of Ukrainian artillery? Casualties of both Russian and Ukrainian artillery? The bodies are there. We can see that. The details and explanations attached to those bodies are words and propaganda, much like the bombed-out building in Iraq was a "baby milk factory" after it was blown up. There's at least one more possibility, Ukrainians using this to settle scores, there's factions that hate each other, could be the pro Ukraines killed the pro Russians, the pro Russia side killed the pro Ukraine side. Could be innocent bystanders caught in the fighting. Could be the Russians picked some civilians and clapped them for the hell of it. Neither one of us knows, that's for sure and probably never know. Except for the part where the bodies were piled there while Russia controlled the town. We keep glossing over that part. How does that preclude them from being killed by other Ukrainians? I'm not saying they were, just that they could have been. You or I either one don't know what happened. Let me ask you this simple question. Have the Russians earned the benefit of doubt? You and I both know they have not. Ever. And what have the Ukrainians done to earn the benefit of doubt? Just because one side's bad doesn't make the other side good, a concept I think a lot of the western world has a problem with. Well....they're not the ones invading another country and killing their civilians for one. Just for starters...do...do you need more? Actually, yes. Just because they're there isn't proof of anything except they invaded Ukraine. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:21:43 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually, yes. Just because they're there isn't proof of anything except they invaded Ukraine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah I already pointed out the info around those. Corroborated with sat images. Again, nobody is disputing the presence of bodies. What matters is who killed them, when, and how. Has it occurred to you that they may have been casualties of Ukrainian artillery? Casualties of both Russian and Ukrainian artillery? The bodies are there. We can see that. The details and explanations attached to those bodies are words and propaganda, much like the bombed-out building in Iraq was a "baby milk factory" after it was blown up. There's at least one more possibility, Ukrainians using this to settle scores, there's factions that hate each other, could be the pro Ukraines killed the pro Russians, the pro Russia side killed the pro Ukraine side. Could be innocent bystanders caught in the fighting. Could be the Russians picked some civilians and clapped them for the hell of it. Neither one of us knows, that's for sure and probably never know. Except for the part where the bodies were piled there while Russia controlled the town. We keep glossing over that part. How does that preclude them from being killed by other Ukrainians? I'm not saying they were, just that they could have been. You or I either one don't know what happened. Let me ask you this simple question. Have the Russians earned the benefit of doubt? You and I both know they have not. Ever. And what have the Ukrainians done to earn the benefit of doubt? Just because one side's bad doesn't make the other side good, a concept I think a lot of the western world has a problem with. Well....they're not the ones invading another country and killing their civilians for one. Just for starters...do...do you need more? Actually, yes. Just because they're there isn't proof of anything except they invaded Ukraine. And they're Russians and this is what they do. And it occurred on Russian held ground ect ect... |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:21:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gee, and here I thought you were taking the stance that nothing can be taken at face value. doesn't actually take a degree in rocket surgery does it? |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:24:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually, yes. Just because they're there isn't proof of anything except they invaded Ukraine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah I already pointed out the info around those. Corroborated with sat images. Again, nobody is disputing the presence of bodies. What matters is who killed them, when, and how. Has it occurred to you that they may have been casualties of Ukrainian artillery? Casualties of both Russian and Ukrainian artillery? The bodies are there. We can see that. The details and explanations attached to those bodies are words and propaganda, much like the bombed-out building in Iraq was a "baby milk factory" after it was blown up. There's at least one more possibility, Ukrainians using this to settle scores, there's factions that hate each other, could be the pro Ukraines killed the pro Russians, the pro Russia side killed the pro Ukraine side. Could be innocent bystanders caught in the fighting. Could be the Russians picked some civilians and clapped them for the hell of it. Neither one of us knows, that's for sure and probably never know. Except for the part where the bodies were piled there while Russia controlled the town. We keep glossing over that part. How does that preclude them from being killed by other Ukrainians? I'm not saying they were, just that they could have been. You or I either one don't know what happened. Let me ask you this simple question. Have the Russians earned the benefit of doubt? You and I both know they have not. Ever. And what have the Ukrainians done to earn the benefit of doubt? Just because one side's bad doesn't make the other side good, a concept I think a lot of the western world has a problem with. Well....they're not the ones invading another country and killing their civilians for one. Just for starters...do...do you need more? Actually, yes. Just because they're there isn't proof of anything except they invaded Ukraine. Actually no, there's a lot of proof surrounding the things they are doing there. It's not my problem if you refuse to look at it. Also, that's not what your question was. Your question was "why does Ukraine get the benefit of the doubt" and my answer is- because they were minding their business, offering no thread to Russia when Russia invaded after months of lying about invading. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:24:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: doesn't actually take a degree in rocket surgery does it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Gee, and here I thought you were taking the stance that nothing can be taken at face value. doesn't actually take a degree in rocket surgery does it? lol, can't even keep your own argument straight. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:25:27 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And they're Russians and this is what they do. And it occurred on Russian held ground ect ect... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah I already pointed out the info around those. Corroborated with sat images. Again, nobody is disputing the presence of bodies. What matters is who killed them, when, and how. Has it occurred to you that they may have been casualties of Ukrainian artillery? Casualties of both Russian and Ukrainian artillery? The bodies are there. We can see that. The details and explanations attached to those bodies are words and propaganda, much like the bombed-out building in Iraq was a "baby milk factory" after it was blown up. There's at least one more possibility, Ukrainians using this to settle scores, there's factions that hate each other, could be the pro Ukraines killed the pro Russians, the pro Russia side killed the pro Ukraine side. Could be innocent bystanders caught in the fighting. Could be the Russians picked some civilians and clapped them for the hell of it. Neither one of us knows, that's for sure and probably never know. Except for the part where the bodies were piled there while Russia controlled the town. We keep glossing over that part. How does that preclude them from being killed by other Ukrainians? I'm not saying they were, just that they could have been. You or I either one don't know what happened. Let me ask you this simple question. Have the Russians earned the benefit of doubt? You and I both know they have not. Ever. And what have the Ukrainians done to earn the benefit of doubt? Just because one side's bad doesn't make the other side good, a concept I think a lot of the western world has a problem with. Well....they're not the ones invading another country and killing their civilians for one. Just for starters...do...do you need more? Actually, yes. Just because they're there isn't proof of anything except they invaded Ukraine. And they're Russians and this is what they do. And it occurred on Russian held ground ect ect... People define proof strangely don't they... |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 6:41:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol, can't even keep your own argument straight. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Gee, and here I thought you were taking the stance that nothing can be taken at face value. doesn't actually take a degree in rocket surgery does it? lol, can't even keep your own argument straight. No shit. Think that’s probably enough tard jousting for the evening. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 7:13:19 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No shit. Think that’s probably enough tard jousting for the evening. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Gee, and here I thought you were taking the stance that nothing can be taken at face value. doesn't actually take a degree in rocket surgery does it? lol, can't even keep your own argument straight. No shit. Think that’s probably enough tard jousting for the evening. Good reminder why I've only been in the military forum lately and the big thread in GD (which still gets its fair share of tards). |
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