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Link Posted: 4/6/2022 1:56:36 PM EDT
[#1]
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So did the US, several times without even as good as a excuse Russia is trying to use. Where's the outrage over those?
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I forgot to add common sense, which clearly is in short supply.

i'd imagine that waterglass is saying the same thing about common sense.

https://i.imgflip.com/6biipz.jpg



Then make a logical argument.

So far the best arguments are "covid was wrong so this is wrong" and "I haven't seen the bodies myself so it's false"

Weak.

I haven’t seen the bodies myself so it could be true or false.

Who profits from the corpses if it is true or false?

Ukrainians that want the EU to join the war.

Do I care if the EU joins the war?

No.

No need to argue.





Well perhaps you should open your eyes, because it's very easy to see the bodies if you care to see what's happening over there. Civilians killed with hands tied behind their backs, executed people, shelled cities, etc.

Your argument is that Ukraine is killing their own people to get other countries involved, when other countries were already supplying them with everything they need to win on their own.
What did the Red Army have to gain by murdering and raping their way across Germany?
What did the Nazis have to gain by murdering Jews?
This is a conscripted, poorly trained army with no leadership doing things that the Russian army has ALWAYS done.

Use your fucking head.


Meh. Don’t care.



Then why come peddle your bullshit in a thread about something you admittedly are ignorant about?


To see which CIA propagated horse shit was being pushed today. I pay for it after all.



Right. Go do some more research. Read the 1,500 page thread and get up to speed before you talk as if you actually know what's going on, because you clearly don't.



Are you talking about arfcom's censored thread with a clear "free Ukraine!" objective?    Next you will tell us to also check CNN, NYT, WaPo, ANC, etc?  




The thread that kicks people out that thread slide and repeat KNOWN Kremlin talking points? Sorry that hit a nerve, did you get removed?



"Russia, Russia!"

Your girl paying fines (when she should be facing a firing squad) because of the fabricated Trump-Russia collusion she pushed makes your point and that thread quite credible, like Twitter and Facebook posts and discussions in those echo chambers, and CNN, NYT, WaPo and other MSM articles.  





My girl? Who is my girl? Are you suggesting it's Hillary? You think I voted for her? Interesting. Show your work on that one, or stop lying.

Russia is LITERALLY invading a sovereign country and murdering civilians right now. This has nothing to do with "collusion".



Funny how you used a hillary talking pint, yet you claim you are not a hillary lover.

It works both ways.






lol, what talking point is that? That Russia invaded a sovereign nation?

I feel like I'm arguing with a 10 year old. Your logic sucks dude.


So did the US, several times without even as good as a excuse Russia is trying to use. Where's the outrage over those?



Wrong. We had much better excuses, though still not good in retrospect.
We also didn't deliberately destroy civilian centers.
We didn't torture people.
Troops who committed war crimes were generally prosecutor if caught.

And you think Russia has a better case? How? Fabricated nazis? bioweapon labs (lol)? Which kremlin talking point is their good excuse?
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 1:56:54 PM EDT
[#2]
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It's irrelevant. Our government is corrupt too, do we deserve to be invaded? It's not reasonable if you think about it for more than 5 seconds.
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No, its not. Its highly relevant as to whether the US should get involved, or mind our own business, and let them figure it out themselves.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 1:57:02 PM EDT
[#3]
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Again. Look at the totality of the information and make a call. Some is certainly suspect. You have to use common sense. When you see executed people and shelled civilians and RT says "lol not us" you can assume they're lying.
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lol, good thing there arent any sattelite photos of the bodies laying in the street while the town was still under Russian occupation or anything. That would be awkward.

Care to share that satellite footage chain of custody?



People buy off on RT propaganda, but want a chain of custody for satellite photos corroborated by numerous other sources....lol



Shouldn't the same standards apply of a source is to be taken seriously?

We know RT is questionable because we know its chain of custody (belongs to Russia state); therefore not difficult to imagine how information is handled.

However, no one here know what happens with the satellite imagery attributed to maxar.  Why is it more credible than RT's?





Again. Look at the totality of the information and make a call. Some is certainly suspect. You have to use common sense. When you see executed people and shelled civilians and RT says "lol not us" you can assume they're lying.


ALL the info from both sides is suspect.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 1:57:47 PM EDT
[#4]
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I am likely going down a 10 year old level to discussing with you.  

You make things up when you do not have any evidence and evade when caught (e.g. the "Russian collusion" claims made by your girl also completely fabricated)

Anyway... keep going.  Your desperate attempts to defend the "free Ukraine!" narrative are a funny entertainment to laugh at.



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I forgot to add common sense, which clearly is in short supply.

i'd imagine that waterglass is saying the same thing about common sense.

https://i.imgflip.com/6biipz.jpg



Then make a logical argument.

So far the best arguments are "covid was wrong so this is wrong" and "I haven't seen the bodies myself so it's false"

Weak.

I haven’t seen the bodies myself so it could be true or false.

Who profits from the corpses if it is true or false?

Ukrainians that want the EU to join the war.

Do I care if the EU joins the war?

No.

No need to argue.





Well perhaps you should open your eyes, because it's very easy to see the bodies if you care to see what's happening over there. Civilians killed with hands tied behind their backs, executed people, shelled cities, etc.

Your argument is that Ukraine is killing their own people to get other countries involved, when other countries were already supplying them with everything they need to win on their own.
What did the Red Army have to gain by murdering and raping their way across Germany?
What did the Nazis have to gain by murdering Jews?
This is a conscripted, poorly trained army with no leadership doing things that the Russian army has ALWAYS done.

Use your fucking head.


Meh. Don’t care.



Then why come peddle your bullshit in a thread about something you admittedly are ignorant about?


To see which CIA propagated horse shit was being pushed today. I pay for it after all.



Right. Go do some more research. Read the 1,500 page thread and get up to speed before you talk as if you actually know what's going on, because you clearly don't.



Are you talking about arfcom's censored thread with a clear "free Ukraine!" objective?    Next you will tell us to also check CNN, NYT, WaPo, ANC, etc?  




The thread that kicks people out that thread slide and repeat KNOWN Kremlin talking points? Sorry that hit a nerve, did you get removed?



"Russia, Russia!"

Your girl paying fines (when she should be facing a firing squad) because of the fabricated Trump-Russia collusion she pushed makes your point and that thread quite credible, like Twitter and Facebook posts and discussions in those echo chambers, and CNN, NYT, WaPo and other MSM articles.  





My girl? Who is my girl? Are you suggesting it's Hillary? You think I voted for her? Interesting. Show your work on that one, or stop lying.

Russia is LITERALLY invading a sovereign country and murdering civilians right now. This has nothing to do with "collusion".



Funny how you used a hillary talking pint, yet you claim you are not a hillary lover.

It works both ways.






lol, what talking point is that? That Russia invaded a sovereign nation?

I feel like I'm arguing with a 10 year old. Your logic sucks dude.



I am likely going down a 10 year old level to discussing with you.  

You make things up when you do not have any evidence and evade when caught (e.g. the "Russian collusion" claims made by your girl also completely fabricated)

Anyway... keep going.  Your desperate attempts to defend the "free Ukraine!" narrative are a funny entertainment to laugh at.





Just because I'm not gong to wade through the archives doesnt' mean it's made up.

My girl again? Talk about entertainment...weakest argument ever.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 1:58:00 PM EDT
[#5]
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you can't even answer a very simple question

all you are doing is virtue signaling
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Read? Anything remotely independent. (Not RT except for entertainment). Read all you can, read accounts from people on the ground, look at pictures, watch videos, listen to captured audio. Then you have to use a little common sense and decide what is believable and what is not. I know, it's tough having to think for yourself. Nowhere here did I advocate for blindly trusting anyone or anything, but when you hear the same thing from 5 sources, you can probably make a decision.

you didn't answer the question. don't be elusive...

many Americans are already reading multiple sources, domestic and foreign, and thinking for themselves and making their own judgements

specifically what "independent news" sites are you suggesting Americans are to read and parrot?



Sorry, I didn't think I had to be that specific. Here's the thing, if you can grasp the point I'm making- read all you can. Read a bit from everything....you can do without the state sponsored media though.

I hope you get my point, it's not that difficult.

you can't even answer a very simple question

all you are doing is virtue signaling



Same very pattern the left uses when trying to defend their bs.  Suspicious, isn't it?  





Link Posted: 4/6/2022 1:58:26 PM EDT
[#6]
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ALL the info from both sides is suspect.
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lol, good thing there arent any sattelite photos of the bodies laying in the street while the town was still under Russian occupation or anything. That would be awkward.

Care to share that satellite footage chain of custody?



People buy off on RT propaganda, but want a chain of custody for satellite photos corroborated by numerous other sources....lol



Shouldn't the same standards apply of a source is to be taken seriously?

We know RT is questionable because we know its chain of custody (belongs to Russia state); therefore not difficult to imagine how information is handled.

However, no one here know what happens with the satellite imagery attributed to maxar.  Why is it more credible than RT's?





Again. Look at the totality of the information and make a call. Some is certainly suspect. You have to use common sense. When you see executed people and shelled civilians and RT says "lol not us" you can assume they're lying.


ALL the info from both sides is suspect.



SOME is. You have to use brain power to figure it out, it's not THAT hard.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 1:58:46 PM EDT
[#7]
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Same very pattern the left uses when trying to defend their bs.  Suspicious, isn't it?  





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Read? Anything remotely independent. (Not RT except for entertainment). Read all you can, read accounts from people on the ground, look at pictures, watch videos, listen to captured audio. Then you have to use a little common sense and decide what is believable and what is not. I know, it's tough having to think for yourself. Nowhere here did I advocate for blindly trusting anyone or anything, but when you hear the same thing from 5 sources, you can probably make a decision.

you didn't answer the question. don't be elusive...

many Americans are already reading multiple sources, domestic and foreign, and thinking for themselves and making their own judgements

specifically what "independent news" sites are you suggesting Americans are to read and parrot?



Sorry, I didn't think I had to be that specific. Here's the thing, if you can grasp the point I'm making- read all you can. Read a bit from everything....you can do without the state sponsored media though.

I hope you get my point, it's not that difficult.

you can't even answer a very simple question

all you are doing is virtue signaling



Same very pattern the left uses when trying to defend their bs.  Suspicious, isn't it?  








lmao, I answered it twice.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:00:55 PM EDT
[#8]
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SOME is. You have to use brain power to figure it out, it's not THAT hard.
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to be honest...your brain power seems very limited
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:01:33 PM EDT
[#9]
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to be honest...your brain power seems very limited
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SOME is. You have to use brain power to figure it out, it's not THAT hard.

to be honest...your brain power seems very limited


A convincing argument, well done
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:01:54 PM EDT
[#10]
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Wrong. We had much better excuses, though still not good in retrospect.
We also didn't deliberately destroy civilian centers.
We didn't torture people.
Troops who committed war crimes were generally prosecutor if caught.

And you think Russia has a better case? How? Fabricated nazis? bioweapon labs (lol)? Which kremlin talking point is their good excuse?
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Wrong on both counts. We did torture people (Abu Ghraib), and our reasons sucked (made up WMD's)
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:03:05 PM EDT
[#11]
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There is no God (unbiased source of truth). There never has been.  There is, however, various levels of untrustworthiness in the non-godly sphere of reality. If you choose to try and gather information from a source that has a high level of untrustworthiness and animus towards our country, feel free to do so. I don't really care one way or another because I'm not stupid enough to think that the truth actually matters in cases like this. Propaganda and psyops are a legitimate form of warfare. I could care less how those people died as long as the information hurts Russia. The truth that I know is that Russia isn't our ally and, strategically, they must be stopped in Ukraine. Every Russian asset that is killed there is good for the United States and Western Europe. It's going to take really good propaganda to ensure that the international community is on board with it.
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Both sides are spitting state-sponsored propaganda and both sides fabricate and censor information.  Now you are getting on the "if both sides believe in God, for what side God will intervene?".
There is no God (unbiased source of truth). There never has been.  There is, however, various levels of untrustworthiness in the non-godly sphere of reality. If you choose to try and gather information from a source that has a high level of untrustworthiness and animus towards our country, feel free to do so. I don't really care one way or another because I'm not stupid enough to think that the truth actually matters in cases like this. Propaganda and psyops are a legitimate form of warfare. I could care less how those people died as long as the information hurts Russia. The truth that I know is that Russia isn't our ally and, strategically, they must be stopped in Ukraine. Every Russian asset that is killed there is good for the United States and Western Europe. It's going to take really good propaganda to ensure that the international community is on board with it.



Wait.  So, you are saying that anyone questioning the information and seeking the truth is stupid?

The you also "do not care how the people actually died, as long as it hurts Russia".  So, if they were murdered by Ukrainians themselves as a false flag, that would not matter to you, as long as "it hurts Russia".

There's a clear pattern showing here.


Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:03:40 PM EDT
[#12]
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I think a case could be made for all military aged males being a justification.  A shit one for sure, but Ukraine has been very straight forward any makes 16 to 60 is in the service defending their country.

It’s horrible but not every nation fights like us.  I can see the question being posed what to do with people that will be armed and fighting Russia again when Russia surrender the ground.  

I understand why the Russian army is lighting up civilian vehicles too.  Many UA small units are using civilian vehicles for transport and logistics.  It really sucks but UA decisions likely started these atrocities.

Executing women and children has no excuse, beyond this is a total war with the extermination of anyone that might challenge Russian rule, which in that case should drive the world’s reaction to this objective.  Same for deporting the native population to camps.  The world knows how that ends.

I still want Ukraine to win, it’s their country not Russia’s.  Russia forgot that when they committed the holodomor.  The media however is not presenting the full truth, shocker I know.
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The Chinese have said that the massacre in Ukraine is "collateral damage" and not a war crime.



Well I’ve certainly never seen that term used before


I think a case could be made for all military aged males being a justification.  A shit one for sure, but Ukraine has been very straight forward any makes 16 to 60 is in the service defending their country.

It’s horrible but not every nation fights like us.  I can see the question being posed what to do with people that will be armed and fighting Russia again when Russia surrender the ground.  

I understand why the Russian army is lighting up civilian vehicles too.  Many UA small units are using civilian vehicles for transport and logistics.  It really sucks but UA decisions likely started these atrocities.

Executing women and children has no excuse, beyond this is a total war with the extermination of anyone that might challenge Russian rule, which in that case should drive the world’s reaction to this objective.  Same for deporting the native population to camps.  The world knows how that ends.

I still want Ukraine to win, it’s their country not Russia’s.  Russia forgot that when they committed the holodomor.  The media however is not presenting the full truth, shocker I know.



Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:04:42 PM EDT
[#13]
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SOME is. You have to use brain power to figure it out, it's not THAT hard.
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lol, good thing there arent any sattelite photos of the bodies laying in the street while the town was still under Russian occupation or anything. That would be awkward.

Care to share that satellite footage chain of custody?



People buy off on RT propaganda, but want a chain of custody for satellite photos corroborated by numerous other sources....lol



Shouldn't the same standards apply of a source is to be taken seriously?

We know RT is questionable because we know its chain of custody (belongs to Russia state); therefore not difficult to imagine how information is handled.

However, no one here know what happens with the satellite imagery attributed to maxar.  Why is it more credible than RT's?





Again. Look at the totality of the information and make a call. Some is certainly suspect. You have to use common sense. When you see executed people and shelled civilians and RT says "lol not us" you can assume they're lying.


ALL the info from both sides is suspect.



SOME is. You have to use brain power to figure it out, it's not THAT hard.


So you have some god given power to tell who's propaganda is true and whose isn't or do you believe the part s you want to believe? Both sides are lying and we probably won't ever know the truth because whichever side wins will be able cover up their wrong doing.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:04:44 PM EDT
[#14]
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Wrong on both counts. We did torture people (Abu Ghraib), and our reasons sucked (made up WMD's)
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Wrong. We had much better excuses, though still not good in retrospect.
We also didn't deliberately destroy civilian centers.
We didn't torture people.
Troops who committed war crimes were generally prosecutor if caught.

And you think Russia has a better case? How? Fabricated nazis? bioweapon labs (lol)? Which kremlin talking point is their good excuse?

Wrong on both counts. We did torture people (Abu Ghraib), and our reasons sucked (made up WMD's)



Sigh.

Abu Gharaib was wrong, but NOTHING on the level of what Russia is doing right now. Naked people in a pyramid in not even the same ballpark as carving swastikas into women, raping them and killing them.

in 91 Hussein agreed to let inspectors in. It was part of the cease fire agreement. He kicked them out, breaking the agreement. Should we have invaded? No, but it's still a better excuse than Russia has over "denazification".
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:05:50 PM EDT
[#15]
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So you have some god given power to tell who's propaganda is true and whose isn't or do you believe the part s you want to believe? Both sides are lying and we probably won't ever know the truth because whichever side wins will be able cover up their wrong doing.
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lol, good thing there arent any sattelite photos of the bodies laying in the street while the town was still under Russian occupation or anything. That would be awkward.

Care to share that satellite footage chain of custody?



People buy off on RT propaganda, but want a chain of custody for satellite photos corroborated by numerous other sources....lol



Shouldn't the same standards apply of a source is to be taken seriously?

We know RT is questionable because we know its chain of custody (belongs to Russia state); therefore not difficult to imagine how information is handled.

However, no one here know what happens with the satellite imagery attributed to maxar.  Why is it more credible than RT's?





Again. Look at the totality of the information and make a call. Some is certainly suspect. You have to use common sense. When you see executed people and shelled civilians and RT says "lol not us" you can assume they're lying.


ALL the info from both sides is suspect.



SOME is. You have to use brain power to figure it out, it's not THAT hard.


So you have some god given power to tell who's propaganda is true and whose isn't or do you believe the part s you want to believe? Both sides are lying and we probably won't ever know the truth because whichever side wins will be able cover up their wrong doing.


he spends time looking at pictures and watching videos
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:05:56 PM EDT
[#16]
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So you have some god given power to tell who's propaganda is true and whose isn't or do you believe the part s you want to believe? Both sides are lying and we probably won't ever know the truth because whichever side wins will be able cover up their wrong doing.
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lol, good thing there arent any sattelite photos of the bodies laying in the street while the town was still under Russian occupation or anything. That would be awkward.

Care to share that satellite footage chain of custody?



People buy off on RT propaganda, but want a chain of custody for satellite photos corroborated by numerous other sources....lol



Shouldn't the same standards apply of a source is to be taken seriously?

We know RT is questionable because we know its chain of custody (belongs to Russia state); therefore not difficult to imagine how information is handled.

However, no one here know what happens with the satellite imagery attributed to maxar.  Why is it more credible than RT's?





Again. Look at the totality of the information and make a call. Some is certainly suspect. You have to use common sense. When you see executed people and shelled civilians and RT says "lol not us" you can assume they're lying.


ALL the info from both sides is suspect.



SOME is. You have to use brain power to figure it out, it's not THAT hard.


So you have some god given power to tell who's propaganda is true and whose isn't or do you believe the part s you want to believe? Both sides are lying and we probably won't ever know the truth because whichever side wins will be able cover up their wrong doing.


It's called common sense and deductive reasoning. It doesn't always work, but often it does, especially with the plethora of information we have coming out right now.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:06:19 PM EDT
[#17]
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Sigh.

Abu Gharaib was wrong, but NOTHING on the level of what Russia is doing right now. Naked people in a pyramid in not even the same ballpark as carving swastikas into women, raping them and killing them.

in 91 Hussein agreed to let inspectors in. It was part of the cease fire agreement. He kicked them out, breaking the agreement. Should we have invaded? No, but it's still a better excuse than Russia has over "denazification".
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I think russia is more worried about ukraine joining nato that "denazification" dude.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:06:37 PM EDT
[#18]
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he spends time looking at pictures and watching videos
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lol, good thing there arent any sattelite photos of the bodies laying in the street while the town was still under Russian occupation or anything. That would be awkward.

Care to share that satellite footage chain of custody?



People buy off on RT propaganda, but want a chain of custody for satellite photos corroborated by numerous other sources....lol



Shouldn't the same standards apply of a source is to be taken seriously?

We know RT is questionable because we know its chain of custody (belongs to Russia state); therefore not difficult to imagine how information is handled.

However, no one here know what happens with the satellite imagery attributed to maxar.  Why is it more credible than RT's?





Again. Look at the totality of the information and make a call. Some is certainly suspect. You have to use common sense. When you see executed people and shelled civilians and RT says "lol not us" you can assume they're lying.


ALL the info from both sides is suspect.



SOME is. You have to use brain power to figure it out, it's not THAT hard.


So you have some god given power to tell who's propaganda is true and whose isn't or do you believe the part s you want to believe? Both sides are lying and we probably won't ever know the truth because whichever side wins will be able cover up their wrong doing.


he spends time looking at pictures and watching videos


And reading. This is called "information". It's how you learn things. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:06:56 PM EDT
[#19]
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Hey dude, maybe you missed it but this isn't a science experiment. We're trying to piece together current events. Big difference.
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look at the pictures...corroborated by witness statements, and pictures on the ground. Ignore it all if you want, but it doesn't make you smart.


So you were there? On site?


Don't be obtuse. It's absolutely moronic to make the argument that you can NEVER know ANYTHING as fact unless you personally witnessed it with your own eyes.

By your logic NOTHING ever happened because you didn't see it yourself. As Theodoric mentioned above, there's a standard for evidence.

Saying stuff like this will make people think you're dumb.



What's the "standard of evidence"?  If it's that "manual", both sides could be using it, thus rendering the info coming from both of them useless.

In (real) Science experiments, data has to be processed by precise standards and validated through control experiments, which have been the procedures that the "global warming" and "covid pandemic" zealots have been trying to manipulate and censor, and I see the "free Ukraine!" crowd doing the same.





Hey dude, maybe you missed it but this isn't a science experiment. We're trying to piece together current events. Big difference.



I know it's very far from it, like the "global warming" and "covid pandemic" scams (pulled by the same people), hence the information has to be desperately manipulated and censored following the same playbook.




Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:08:09 PM EDT
[#20]
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I think russia is more worried about ukraine joining nato that "denazification" dude.
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Sigh.

Abu Gharaib was wrong, but NOTHING on the level of what Russia is doing right now. Naked people in a pyramid in not even the same ballpark as carving swastikas into women, raping them and killing them.

in 91 Hussein agreed to let inspectors in. It was part of the cease fire agreement. He kicked them out, breaking the agreement. Should we have invaded? No, but it's still a better excuse than Russia has over "denazification".

I think russia is more worried about ukraine joining nato that "denazification" dude.



They weren't even eligible to join NATO dude. NATO was weaker than ever before Russia invaded, now they're strengthening, rearming, and maybe adding new members. NATO was NEVER a thread to Russia, unless Russia invaded. NATO was NEVER an offensive organization.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:08:31 PM EDT
[#21]
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So you have some god given power to tell who's propaganda is true and whose isn't or do you believe the part s you want to believe? Both sides are lying and we probably won't ever know the truth because whichever side wins will be able cover up their wrong doing.
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he is also the only person here with "common sense" and ability for "deductive reasoning"
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:08:43 PM EDT
[#22]
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Military aged males aren’t combatants unless engaged in certain activities, enrolled, enlisted or commissioned in certain groups or uniformed. Killing a 40 year old man in civilian clothing who is standing in his yard is almost certainly a war crime.
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I think a case could be made for all military aged males being a justification.  A shit one for sure, but Ukraine has been very straight forward any makes 16 to 60 is in the service defending their country.

It’s horrible but not every nation fights like us.  I can see the question being posed what to do with people that will be armed and fighting Russia again when Russia surrender the ground.  

I understand why the Russian army is lighting up civilian vehicles too.  Many UA small units are using civilian vehicles for transport and logistics.  It really sucks but UA decisions likely started these atrocities.

Executing women and children has no excuse, beyond this is a total war with the extermination of anyone that might challenge Russian rule, which in that case should drive the world’s reaction to this objective.  Same for deporting the native population to camps.  The world knows how that ends.

I still want Ukraine to win, it’s their country not Russia’s.  Russia forgot that when they committed the holodomor.  The media however is not presenting the full truth, shocker I know.


Military aged males aren’t combatants unless engaged in certain activities, enrolled, enlisted or commissioned in certain groups or uniformed. Killing a 40 year old man in civilian clothing who is standing in his yard is almost certainly a war crime.



No doubt. How about gunning down reporters or bombing hospitals?
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:09:01 PM EDT
[#23]
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I know it's very far from it, like the "global warming" and "covid pandemic" scams (pulled by the same people), hence the information has to be desperately manipulated and censored following the same playbook.




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look at the pictures...corroborated by witness statements, and pictures on the ground. Ignore it all if you want, but it doesn't make you smart.


So you were there? On site?


Don't be obtuse. It's absolutely moronic to make the argument that you can NEVER know ANYTHING as fact unless you personally witnessed it with your own eyes.

By your logic NOTHING ever happened because you didn't see it yourself. As Theodoric mentioned above, there's a standard for evidence.

Saying stuff like this will make people think you're dumb.



What's the "standard of evidence"?  If it's that "manual", both sides could be using it, thus rendering the info coming from both of them useless.

In (real) Science experiments, data has to be processed by precise standards and validated through control experiments, which have been the procedures that the "global warming" and "covid pandemic" zealots have been trying to manipulate and censor, and I see the "free Ukraine!" crowd doing the same.





Hey dude, maybe you missed it but this isn't a science experiment. We're trying to piece together current events. Big difference.



I know it's very far from it, like the "global warming" and "covid pandemic" scams (pulled by the same people), hence the information has to be desperately manipulated and censored following the same playbook.







Yup. And yet we were able to figure out much of the truth concerning those things weren't we? But somehow we can't figure anything out about Ukraine.

hmm....
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:09:55 PM EDT
[#24]
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he is also the only person here with "common sense" and ability for "deductive reasoning"
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So you have some god given power to tell who's propaganda is true and whose isn't or do you believe the part s you want to believe? Both sides are lying and we probably won't ever know the truth because whichever side wins will be able cover up their wrong doing.


he is also the only person here with "common sense" and ability for "deductive reasoning"



Where did you get that? Out of the 3 or 4 of us arguing that's clearly the case. Stop lying.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:11:33 PM EDT
[#25]
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No doubt. How about gunning down reporters or bombing hospitals?
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Which "Russian atrocities" have been investigated and proven? The two you mentioned were in dispute from the beginning. Everybody appears to be blaming the other side for everything. Both sides lie and push propaganda. Why would you believe either?

I am at a loss as to why withholding judgment until SOME semblance of independent investigation is done is seen as an extreme position.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:12:12 PM EDT
[#26]
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They weren't even eligible to join NATO dude. NATO was weaker than ever before Russia invaded, now they're strengthening, rearming, and maybe adding new members. NATO was NEVER a thread to Russia, unless Russia invaded. NATO was NEVER an offensive organization.
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inaccurate
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:12:38 PM EDT
[#27]
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I think russia is more worried about ukraine joining nato that "denazification" dude.
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Sigh.

Abu Gharaib was wrong, but NOTHING on the level of what Russia is doing right now. Naked people in a pyramid in not even the same ballpark as carving swastikas into women, raping them and killing them.

in 91 Hussein agreed to let inspectors in. It was part of the cease fire agreement. He kicked them out, breaking the agreement. Should we have invaded? No, but it's still a better excuse than Russia has over "denazification".

I think russia is more worried about ukraine joining nato that "denazification" dude.


Meh, it’s likely more to do with the US playing around in the area. Some nations don’t want a bakers dozen US military bases surrounding them.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:12:41 PM EDT
[#28]
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They weren't even eligible to join NATO dude. NATO was weaker than ever before Russia invaded, now they're strengthening, rearming, and maybe adding new members. NATO was NEVER a thread to Russia, unless Russia invaded. NATO was NEVER an offensive organization.
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Nope, but they were part of natos enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program, which aligns them with nato.

You keep supporting the current thing, but I won't bother arguing with that narrow minded of a view, or such poor knowledge of world events
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:13:17 PM EDT
[#29]
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you didn't answer the question. don't be elusive...

many Americans are already reading multiple sources, domestic and foreign, and thinking for themselves and making their own judgements

specifically what "independent news" sites are you suggesting Americans are to read and parrot?
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Read? Anything remotely independent. (Not RT except for entertainment). Read all you can, read accounts from people on the ground, look at pictures, watch videos, listen to captured audio. Then you have to use a little common sense and decide what is believable and what is not. I know, it's tough having to think for yourself. Nowhere here did I advocate for blindly trusting anyone or anything, but when you hear the same thing from 5 sources, you can probably make a decision.

you didn't answer the question. don't be elusive...

many Americans are already reading multiple sources, domestic and foreign, and thinking for themselves and making their own judgements

specifically what "independent news" sites are you suggesting Americans are to read and parrot?

ARFCOM
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:13:53 PM EDT
[#30]
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Which "Russian atrocities" have been investigated and proven? The two you mentioned were in dispute from the beginning. Everybody appears to be blaming the other side for everything. Both sides lie and push propaganda. Why would you believe either?

I am at a loss as to why withholding judgment until SOME semblance of independent investigation is done is seen as an extreme position.
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No doubt. How about gunning down reporters or bombing hospitals?

Which "Russian atrocities" have been investigated and proven? The two you mentioned were in dispute from the beginning. Everybody appears to be blaming the other side for everything. Both sides lie and push propaganda. Why would you believe either?

I am at a loss as to why withholding judgment until SOME semblance of independent investigation is done is seen as an extreme position.


Man, there's satellite photos of piles of bodies while the Russians occupies Bucha, photos on the ground after, intercepted comms from the Russians, and first hand accounts. There's zero evidence Ukrainians did it.

Common sense tells us the likely events that transpired.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:14:10 PM EDT
[#31]
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inaccurate
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They weren't even eligible to join NATO dude. NATO was weaker than ever before Russia invaded, now they're strengthening, rearming, and maybe adding new members. NATO was NEVER a thread to Russia, unless Russia invaded. NATO was NEVER an offensive organization.


inaccurate


Accurate.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:15:18 PM EDT
[#32]
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Which "Russian atrocities" have been investigated and proven? The two you mentioned were in dispute from the beginning. Everybody appears to be blaming the other side for everything. Both sides lie and push propaganda. Why would you believe either?

I am at a loss as to why withholding judgment until SOME semblance of independent investigation is done is seen as an extreme position.
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No doubt. How about gunning down reporters or bombing hospitals?

Which "Russian atrocities" have been investigated and proven? The two you mentioned were in dispute from the beginning. Everybody appears to be blaming the other side for everything. Both sides lie and push propaganda. Why would you believe either?

I am at a loss as to why withholding judgment until SOME semblance of independent investigation is done is seen as an extreme position.



I’m mainly speaking of the hospital in Kunduz and the reporters that were murdered in Iraq
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:16:33 PM EDT
[#33]
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Nope, but they were part of natos enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program, which aligns them with nato.

You keep supporting the current thing, but I won't bother arguing with that narrow minded of a view, or such poor knowledge of world events
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They weren't even eligible to join NATO dude. NATO was weaker than ever before Russia invaded, now they're strengthening, rearming, and maybe adding new members. NATO was NEVER a thread to Russia, unless Russia invaded. NATO was NEVER an offensive organization.

Nope, but they were part of natos enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program, which aligns them with nato.

You keep supporting the current thing, but I won't bother arguing with that narrow minded of a view, or such poor knowledge of world events


Contested borders means they are ineligible. They were NATO aligned, as sovereign nations are allowed to be, but there was nothing in the works to make them a member.

Russia doesn't have a legit say on who joins NATO. It does NOT justify an invasion, and frankly that's an absurd POV and it one of the main talking points coming out of the Kremlin.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:16:57 PM EDT
[#34]
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So did the US, several times without even as good as a excuse Russia is trying to use. Where's the outrage over those?
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I forgot to add common sense, which clearly is in short supply.

i'd imagine that waterglass is saying the same thing about common sense.

https://i.imgflip.com/6biipz.jpg



Then make a logical argument.

So far the best arguments are "covid was wrong so this is wrong" and "I haven't seen the bodies myself so it's false"

Weak.

I haven’t seen the bodies myself so it could be true or false.

Who profits from the corpses if it is true or false?

Ukrainians that want the EU to join the war.

Do I care if the EU joins the war?

No.

No need to argue.





Well perhaps you should open your eyes, because it's very easy to see the bodies if you care to see what's happening over there. Civilians killed with hands tied behind their backs, executed people, shelled cities, etc.

Your argument is that Ukraine is killing their own people to get other countries involved, when other countries were already supplying them with everything they need to win on their own.
What did the Red Army have to gain by murdering and raping their way across Germany?
What did the Nazis have to gain by murdering Jews?
This is a conscripted, poorly trained army with no leadership doing things that the Russian army has ALWAYS done.

Use your fucking head.


Meh. Don’t care.



Then why come peddle your bullshit in a thread about something you admittedly are ignorant about?


To see which CIA propagated horse shit was being pushed today. I pay for it after all.



Right. Go do some more research. Read the 1,500 page thread and get up to speed before you talk as if you actually know what's going on, because you clearly don't.



Are you talking about arfcom's censored thread with a clear "free Ukraine!" objective?    Next you will tell us to also check CNN, NYT, WaPo, ANC, etc?  




The thread that kicks people out that thread slide and repeat KNOWN Kremlin talking points? Sorry that hit a nerve, did you get removed?



"Russia, Russia!"

Your girl paying fines (when she should be facing a firing squad) because of the fabricated Trump-Russia collusion she pushed makes your point and that thread quite credible, like Twitter and Facebook posts and discussions in those echo chambers, and CNN, NYT, WaPo and other MSM articles.  





My girl? Who is my girl? Are you suggesting it's Hillary? You think I voted for her? Interesting. Show your work on that one, or stop lying.

Russia is LITERALLY invading a sovereign country and murdering civilians right now. This has nothing to do with "collusion".



Funny how you used a hillary talking pint, yet you claim you are not a hillary lover.

It works both ways.






lol, what talking point is that? That Russia invaded a sovereign nation?

I feel like I'm arguing with a 10 year old. Your logic sucks dude.


So did the US, several times without even as good as a excuse Russia is trying to use. Where's the outrage over those?

This is absolute crap.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:17:49 PM EDT
[#35]
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What about killing seven children standing in theirs?
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In the context of people believing that they were engaging a combatant? Lawful.

Should they have believed that? I don’t believe so.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:19:03 PM EDT
[#36]
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When was the last time you were in a CIS country and how well do you know Russian people?
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Yet, so far, the "evidence" that the "free Ukraine!" crowd have been providing is closer to what the AGs and media in both cases were providing.




When was the last time you were in a CIS country and how well do you know Russian people?



I have a couple Ukrainian and Russian friends/acquaintances.  They gave me similar opinions and the Ukrainian moved to Poland with his family a couple years back because he could no longer stand that shithole.    The few Russian I worked with and became friends with one of them are great guys.

We cannot generalize.  Otherwise Americans should be viewed as being the bottom of the food chain for having a senile pedophile as president, something that CoC does not let me describe as VP,  a gang of robbers and other types of vile criminals running the country and still meddling in other countries' affairs, for this gang's interests, not the country's.



Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:20:07 PM EDT
[#37]
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I think russia is more worried about ukraine joining nato that "denazification" dude.
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Sigh.

Abu Gharaib was wrong, but NOTHING on the level of what Russia is doing right now. Naked people in a pyramid in not even the same ballpark as carving swastikas into women, raping them and killing them.

in 91 Hussein agreed to let inspectors in. It was part of the cease fire agreement. He kicked them out, breaking the agreement. Should we have invaded? No, but it's still a better excuse than Russia has over "denazification".

I think russia is more worried about ukraine joining nato that "denazification" dude.

How’s that working out for them? Well hello Finland and Sweden welcome to the club.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:22:39 PM EDT
[#38]
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he is also the only person here with "common sense" and ability for "deductive reasoning"
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There’s a thread in the military section where the vets have done a pretty good job sifting through the BS to paint a decent picture of what’s going on using sources from everywhere. Roland is a part of that discussion. It amazing the information compiled while avoiding these petty arguments.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:23:22 PM EDT
[#39]
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Sigh.

Because the info that guy was posting was in direct conflict with hundreds of other people on the ground, video, pictures, and satellite imagery. Again, look at all the info you can- that guy was an outlier saying there was no war even happening. You want to believe him?

Again, feel free to ignore ALL the evidence, but you'll just go through life ignorant which apparently is your MO.

ETA Remotely independent, at the VERY LEAST- not state run...
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Apparently you missed the part where I said our MSM sucks too, also opinion articles are a reach dude. So are ones from 2015.


what news outlets (foreign or domestic; state owned/funded or state aligned; etc.) are Americans supposed to read and trust (and "parrot")...in your opinion?



Read? Anything remotely independent. (Not RT except for entertainment). Read all you can, read accounts from people on the ground, look at pictures, watch videos, listen to captured audio. Then you have to use a little common sense and decide what is believable and what is not. I know, it's tough having to think for yourself. Nowhere here did I advocate for blindly trusting anyone or anything, but when you hear the same thing from 5 sources, you can probably make a decision.



Five sources is enough?  Like CNN, WaPo, Fox, NYT, and ABC?  

Define "remotely independent".

Accounts from people on the ground?  Who is interviewing, consolidating, editing and broadcasting that info?   I recall there was a thread about a guy who went there and started posting stuff that did not exactly align with what some here (the same usual suspects) agreed with they started bashing him.   So, one can imagine what kind of "accounts" get here.




Sigh.

Because the info that guy was posting was in direct conflict with hundreds of other people on the ground, video, pictures, and satellite imagery. Again, look at all the info you can- that guy was an outlier saying there was no war even happening. You want to believe him?

Again, feel free to ignore ALL the evidence, but you'll just go through life ignorant which apparently is your MO.

ETA Remotely independent, at the VERY LEAST- not state run...



That was one that we knew. How many others were censored?

Again, not saying there isn't a war, but the extension of it, who is doing what, and let alone its true causes are still very far from clear.



Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:23:56 PM EDT
[#40]
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inaccurate
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They weren't even eligible to join NATO dude. NATO was weaker than ever before Russia invaded, now they're strengthening, rearming, and maybe adding new members. NATO was NEVER a thread to Russia, unless Russia invaded. NATO was NEVER an offensive organization.


inaccurate

Are you suggesting attacking Russia preemptively has ever been seriously discussed?
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:24:10 PM EDT
[#41]
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There’s a thread in the military section where the vets have done a pretty good job sifting through the BS to paint a decent picture of what’s going on using sources from everywhere. Roland is a part of that discussion. It amazing the information compiled while avoiding these petty arguments.
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Any intel analysts in there? They often have a very different perspective.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:24:40 PM EDT
[#42]
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Accurate.
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They weren't even eligible to join NATO dude. NATO was weaker than ever before Russia invaded, now they're strengthening, rearming, and maybe adding new members. NATO was NEVER a thread to Russia, unless Russia invaded. NATO was NEVER an offensive organization.


inaccurate


Accurate.

sorry. you are wrong and parroting, but its probably too hard for you to grasp.....

we can start with "Operation Allied Force"... please explain how that was not an offensive operation conducted on non-NATO sovereign state

when done, we can continue down the list including more recent operations in the middle east and north Africa
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:27:31 PM EDT
[#43]
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That was one that we knew. How many others were censored?

Again, not saying there isn't a war, but the extension of it, who is doing what, and let alone its true causes are still very far from clear.



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Apparently you missed the part where I said our MSM sucks too, also opinion articles are a reach dude. So are ones from 2015.


what news outlets (foreign or domestic; state owned/funded or state aligned; etc.) are Americans supposed to read and trust (and "parrot")...in your opinion?



Read? Anything remotely independent. (Not RT except for entertainment). Read all you can, read accounts from people on the ground, look at pictures, watch videos, listen to captured audio. Then you have to use a little common sense and decide what is believable and what is not. I know, it's tough having to think for yourself. Nowhere here did I advocate for blindly trusting anyone or anything, but when you hear the same thing from 5 sources, you can probably make a decision.



Five sources is enough?  Like CNN, WaPo, Fox, NYT, and ABC?  

Define "remotely independent".

Accounts from people on the ground?  Who is interviewing, consolidating, editing and broadcasting that info?   I recall there was a thread about a guy who went there and started posting stuff that did not exactly align with what some here (the same usual suspects) agreed with they started bashing him.   So, one can imagine what kind of "accounts" get here.




Sigh.

Because the info that guy was posting was in direct conflict with hundreds of other people on the ground, video, pictures, and satellite imagery. Again, look at all the info you can- that guy was an outlier saying there was no war even happening. You want to believe him?

Again, feel free to ignore ALL the evidence, but you'll just go through life ignorant which apparently is your MO.

ETA Remotely independent, at the VERY LEAST- not state run...



That was one that we knew. How many others were censored?

Again, not saying there isn't a war, but the extension of it, who is doing what, and let alone its true causes are still very far from clear.






Nobody is censored (except if you're in Russia) but if you post something stupid, people are going to say so.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:27:35 PM EDT
[#44]
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sorry. you are wrong and parroting, but its probably too hard for you to grasp.....

we can start with "Operation Allied Force"... please explain how that was not an offensive operation conducted on non-NATO sovereign state

when done, we can continue down the list including more recent operations in the middle east and north Africa
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They weren't even eligible to join NATO dude. NATO was weaker than ever before Russia invaded, now they're strengthening, rearming, and maybe adding new members. NATO was NEVER a thread to Russia, unless Russia invaded. NATO was NEVER an offensive organization.


inaccurate


Accurate.

sorry. you are wrong and parroting, but its probably too hard for you to grasp.....

we can start with "Operation Allied Force"... please explain how that was not an offensive operation conducted on non-NATO sovereign state

when done, we can continue down the list including more recent operations in the middle east and north Africa

Have any NATO nations threaten Russia with force? No
Has Russia threatened EVERYONE with nuclear destruction? Yeppers
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:28:31 PM EDT
[#45]
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You are misusing the term "chain of custody".  Chain of custody refers to keeping records of who handles a physical item as it passes through the lifecycle of performing analysis on it.  I think the term you are looking for is "nexus", as in "we know RT is questionable because we know its nexus is with the Russian state".
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lol, good thing there arent any sattelite photos of the bodies laying in the street while the town was still under Russian occupation or anything. That would be awkward.

Care to share that satellite footage chain of custody?



People buy off on RT propaganda, but want a chain of custody for satellite photos corroborated by numerous other sources....lol



Shouldn't the same standards apply of a source is to be taken seriously?

We know RT is questionable because we know its chain of custody (belongs to Russia state); therefore not difficult to imagine how information is handled.

However, no one here know what happens with the satellite imagery attributed to maxar.  Why is it more credible than RT's?


You are misusing the term "chain of custody".  Chain of custody refers to keeping records of who handles a physical item as it passes through the lifecycle of performing analysis on it.  I think the term you are looking for is "nexus", as in "we know RT is questionable because we know its nexus is with the Russian state".



I thought about who touches the information.  

In RT's case, since it belongs to the Russian state, any information will pass by a censor's desk at some point, if not multiple times, between someone writing it and it being published.

In the satellite imagery case, who touched that data between the photos/videos were taken and then they reached the intended audience?

So, I think we are all talking about chain of custody.



Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:28:35 PM EDT
[#46]
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sorry. you are wrong and parroting, but its probably too hard for you to grasp.....

we can start with "Operation Allied Force"... please explain how that was not an offensive operation conducted on non-NATO sovereign state

when done, we can continue down the list including more recent operations in the middle east and north Africa
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They weren't even eligible to join NATO dude. NATO was weaker than ever before Russia invaded, now they're strengthening, rearming, and maybe adding new members. NATO was NEVER a thread to Russia, unless Russia invaded. NATO was NEVER an offensive organization.


inaccurate


Accurate.

sorry. you are wrong and parroting, but its probably too hard for you to grasp.....

we can start with "Operation Allied Force"... please explain how that was not an offensive operation conducted on non-NATO sovereign state

when done, we can continue down the list including more recent operations in the middle east and north Africa


Sorry, I wasn't clear. As far as Russia is concerned NATO was not ever going to be offensive. I hope that is clear.
NATO literally exists because Russia is a bully that constantly threatens and invades their neighbors.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:31:36 PM EDT
[#47]
The false intellectualism in this thread is something else.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:35:51 PM EDT
[#48]
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We both know you're lying, and you can make something of it if you like, but if you've ever searched the archives you know it's almost impossible.
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I forgot to add common sense, which clearly is in short supply.

i'd imagine that waterglass is saying the same thing about common sense.

https://i.imgflip.com/6biipz.jpg



Then make a logical argument.

So far the best arguments are "covid was wrong so this is wrong" and "I haven't seen the bodies myself so it's false"

Weak.

I haven’t seen the bodies myself so it could be true or false.

Who profits from the corpses if it is true or false?

Ukrainians that want the EU to join the war.

Do I care if the EU joins the war?

No.

No need to argue.





Well perhaps you should open your eyes, because it's very easy to see the bodies if you care to see what's happening over there. Civilians killed with hands tied behind their backs, executed people, shelled cities, etc.

Your argument is that Ukraine is killing their own people to get other countries involved, when other countries were already supplying them with everything they need to win on their own.
What did the Red Army have to gain by murdering and raping their way across Germany?
What did the Nazis have to gain by murdering Jews?
What does Putin have to gain now?
Perhaps is just stupid soldiers with bloodlust, not thinking about profiting.
This is a conscripted, poorly trained army with no leadership doing things that the Russian army has ALWAYS done.

Use your fucking head.



I saw many photos of armed civilians (including models holding airsoft) and Ukraine's government (and many here) "proud of it".  Many videos of civilians helping the Ukrainian military killing "bad Russians".

So, once those armed civilians are killed they are reprocessed into "innocent victims" by the MSM for mass consumption?


As an example: Still keeping in mind several discussions not long ago, in this forum, about the Syrian civil war and many fabricated photos and videos.  In Ukraine that stopped and "all is true"?




Who said all is true?

Can you comprehend the difference between a civilian fighter killed somewhere and piles of civilian bodies with hands tied behind their backs? Oh right, those pics are fabricated right.

You're a known putin lover, I remember you- namely because your screen name is the same name as my favorite hotel in Saint Petersburg. At any rate your judgement is suspect, and you have no credibility.




So, if by not buying the "free Ukraine!" propaganda that makes me a "Putin lover", what does zealously pushing that propaganda makes you?  A "soros balls licker"?




You were slobbing Putin's knob before the war even started, don't try to lie about it...I remember. What propaganda am I pushing? You mean information coming from a variety of sources on the ground, and in the air? Meanwhile you're pushing Kremlin talking points and claiming to be a smart guy lmao.



Prove it.  When did I do it?





Deny it if you want, but we both know we've had this discussion. I'm not going to search through the archives for it, you'd deny it anyway even if I could find it since there's no screen names.


So, the same way you made this up (you cannot prove that I ever did it), it's not unreasonable to question anything else coming from you.



We both know you're lying, and you can make something of it if you like, but if you've ever searched the archives you know it's almost impossible.



I know I never said anything that would make me "Putin lover" and challenged you to prove I did.  You cannot because you made it up.

The burden of proof is with the accuser.

The fact that you make things up shows that the information you post is pure bs.



Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:42:00 PM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:



I know I never said anything that would make me "Putin lover" and challenged you to prove I did.  You cannot because you made it up.

The burden of proof is with the accuser.

The fact that you make things up shows that the information you post is pure bs.



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I forgot to add common sense, which clearly is in short supply.

i'd imagine that waterglass is saying the same thing about common sense.

https://i.imgflip.com/6biipz.jpg



Then make a logical argument.

So far the best arguments are "covid was wrong so this is wrong" and "I haven't seen the bodies myself so it's false"

Weak.

I haven’t seen the bodies myself so it could be true or false.

Who profits from the corpses if it is true or false?

Ukrainians that want the EU to join the war.

Do I care if the EU joins the war?

No.

No need to argue.





Well perhaps you should open your eyes, because it's very easy to see the bodies if you care to see what's happening over there. Civilians killed with hands tied behind their backs, executed people, shelled cities, etc.

Your argument is that Ukraine is killing their own people to get other countries involved, when other countries were already supplying them with everything they need to win on their own.
What did the Red Army have to gain by murdering and raping their way across Germany?
What did the Nazis have to gain by murdering Jews?
What does Putin have to gain now?
Perhaps is just stupid soldiers with bloodlust, not thinking about profiting.
This is a conscripted, poorly trained army with no leadership doing things that the Russian army has ALWAYS done.

Use your fucking head.



I saw many photos of armed civilians (including models holding airsoft) and Ukraine's government (and many here) "proud of it".  Many videos of civilians helping the Ukrainian military killing "bad Russians".

So, once those armed civilians are killed they are reprocessed into "innocent victims" by the MSM for mass consumption?


As an example: Still keeping in mind several discussions not long ago, in this forum, about the Syrian civil war and many fabricated photos and videos.  In Ukraine that stopped and "all is true"?




Who said all is true?

Can you comprehend the difference between a civilian fighter killed somewhere and piles of civilian bodies with hands tied behind their backs? Oh right, those pics are fabricated right.

You're a known putin lover, I remember you- namely because your screen name is the same name as my favorite hotel in Saint Petersburg. At any rate your judgement is suspect, and you have no credibility.




So, if by not buying the "free Ukraine!" propaganda that makes me a "Putin lover", what does zealously pushing that propaganda makes you?  A "soros balls licker"?




You were slobbing Putin's knob before the war even started, don't try to lie about it...I remember. What propaganda am I pushing? You mean information coming from a variety of sources on the ground, and in the air? Meanwhile you're pushing Kremlin talking points and claiming to be a smart guy lmao.



Prove it.  When did I do it?





Deny it if you want, but we both know we've had this discussion. I'm not going to search through the archives for it, you'd deny it anyway even if I could find it since there's no screen names.


So, the same way you made this up (you cannot prove that I ever did it), it's not unreasonable to question anything else coming from you.



We both know you're lying, and you can make something of it if you like, but if you've ever searched the archives you know it's almost impossible.



I know I never said anything that would make me "Putin lover" and challenged you to prove I did.  You cannot because you made it up.

The burden of proof is with the accuser.

The fact that you make things up shows that the information you post is pure bs.






I don't care to prove it because I'm not wading through the archive to find it.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 2:42:32 PM EDT
[#50]
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Wait.  So, you are saying that anyone questioning the information and seeking the truth is stupid?

The you also "do not care how the people actually died, as long as it hurts Russia".  So, if they were murdered by Ukrainians themselves as a false flag, that would not matter to you, as long as "it hurts Russia".

There's a clear pattern showing here.


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Both sides are spitting state-sponsored propaganda and both sides fabricate and censor information.  Now you are getting on the "if both sides believe in God, for what side God will intervene?".
There is no God (unbiased source of truth). There never has been.  There is, however, various levels of untrustworthiness in the non-godly sphere of reality. If you choose to try and gather information from a source that has a high level of untrustworthiness and animus towards our country, feel free to do so. I don't really care one way or another because I'm not stupid enough to think that the truth actually matters in cases like this. Propaganda and psyops are a legitimate form of warfare. I could care less how those people died as long as the information hurts Russia. The truth that I know is that Russia isn't our ally and, strategically, they must be stopped in Ukraine. Every Russian asset that is killed there is good for the United States and Western Europe. It's going to take really good propaganda to ensure that the international community is on board with it.



Wait.  So, you are saying that anyone questioning the information and seeking the truth is stupid?

The you also "do not care how the people actually died, as long as it hurts Russia".  So, if they were murdered by Ukrainians themselves as a false flag, that would not matter to you, as long as "it hurts Russia".

There's a clear pattern showing here.


No, you're completely missing the point. The likelihood that there were people intentionally killed by Ukrainians for propaganda purposes is basically zero.  There is an extremely high likelihood that some people were killed by Russians intentionally that were acting as partisan combatants, that some were killed that were innocent civilians, some were killed by artillery and air strikes by Ukrainians or Russians and it's also extremely possible that some innocent civilians that were not acting as partisan fighters were killed by Russians.  

Neither you nor I know where each of those bodies falls in those different categories, and it's also stupid and immaterial to try and figure out that "truth".  What is material is that none of those people would be dead had Russia not attacked Ukraine, so it makes no difference to me if Ukraine or the West uses their deaths for propaganda purposes against Russia. Propaganda is part of warfare.
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