Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page / 4
Next Page Arrow Left
Link Posted: 6/10/2024 6:44:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Cameron's insecurities really shine through in that interview.

Basically: how thorough can their investigation be if they haven't spoken to me? me! and hey, I'm an insider, because, because someone told me classified information! and here's the timestamp to help narrow it down!.

Accident investigations are very tight-lipped matters.  By procedure.  But, people get frustrated about the lack of communication/information (but undocumented chatter introduces biases that can wrongly influence an investigation), and antsy people are easy targets for 60 Minutes. It's 60 Minutes' business model.

Investigations will typically take a year.  I would expect this to take longer.
View Quote


Cameron may be an egotist, I can't speak to that.

What I can say, however, is that in this field, he's easily one of the most qualified -- if not THE most qualified person on the planet to consult on this.  A few people in this thread have been shitting on him, without really knowing his qualifications.  He's one of the foremost deep sea explorers of all time, and he knows what he's talking about.

If you're an investigative committee, and really want to get to the heart of an unusual event, you should probably consult experts.  He definitely qualifies as one of the best.

He's among a very select few people in the world who probably should have been consulted on this incident.
Link Posted: 6/10/2024 6:47:59 PM EDT
[#2]
This also just hit the wires.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/frightening-log-titan-submersible-fatal-182628526.html

Last year, a purported transcript of communications between the Titan submersible and its mother ship circulated widely on the internet. Viewed millions of times, the so-called log suggested that a series of alarms had turned a dive to the resting place of the Titanic into a heart-pounding crisis in which the five voyagers struggled in vain to return to the surface.

But the head of the U.S. federal government team investigating the disaster said the entire transcript is a fiction. After nearly a year of investigation, his group has found no signs that the five voyagers aboard the Titan had any warning of the catastrophic implosion that was to take their lives. Two miles down, where seawater exerts vast pressures, an implosion would have made the violent collapse of the vehicle’s hull instantaneous.

“I’m confident it’s a false transcript,” said Capt. Jason D. Neubauer, who retired from the U.S. Coast Guard and serves as chair of the Marine Board of Investigation, the agency’s highest level of inquiry. “It was made up.” Its authorship is not known.

Sign up for The Morning newsletter from the New York Times

Despite the log’s air of authenticity, the federal team saw through the pretense for a variety of reasons. Significantly, Neubauer’s team gained access to the records of the actual communications between the submersible and its mother ship, which remain an undisclosed part of the federal investigation.

He said that his team, aided by investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board, had “found no evidence” that Titan’s voyagers had any awareness of the imminent implosion or their fate.
View Quote


The article continues, but I won't quote more of it.
Link Posted: 6/10/2024 7:02:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
But I bet it (a movie) is in the works.
View Quote

Looking back there was a sensationalizes media. Maybe someone said, wait and let's see how this play out. We know it exploded but let's play with the media and public reaction. It will make for a good movie someday.
Link Posted: 6/10/2024 7:32:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Too many cycles on the design. It fatigued to the point of failure is my speculation.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:Stockton Rush was trying way too hard to be the maverick, & it caught up & took others out with him. Stupid & reckless. Too bad he didn't do a solo test run. Would've been less tragic.


They had 200 dives w/ 3 subs, including 13 to the Titanic with only 1 hull loss.


Then how did it suddenly, catastrophically fail at the worst possible moment? It begs investigation of the testing protocol. Perhaps an insufficient analysis of the structure, post test run(s). Something was either missed or ignored. Getting it so spectacularly wrong means it was done wrong.
Too many cycles on the design. It fatigued to the point of failure is my speculation.


That makes sense. Fatigue should have been factored into the process. That's just bad planning.
Link Posted: 6/10/2024 8:01:41 PM EDT
[#5]
When you make a hull that might withstand the pressure...
DON'T DRILL A FUCKING HOLE IN IT !!
Link Posted: 6/10/2024 8:04:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That makes sense. Fatigue should have been factored into the process. That's just bad planning.
View Quote
The idiot CEO even knew it.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/20/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersible-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/

"Following Lochridge's departure, the Titan was tested safely on increasingly deep dives, including to 4,000 meters in the Bahamas. However, it seems one of Lochridge's concerns would soon be borne out. In January 2020, Rush gave an interview to GeekWire in which he admitted that the Titan's hull "showed signs of cyclic fatigue." Because of this, the hull's depth rating had been reduced to 3,000 meters. "Not enough to get to the Titanic," Rush said.

During 2020 and 2021, the Titan's hull was either repaired or rebuilt by two Washington state companies, Electroimpact and Janicki Industries, that largely work in aerospace. In late 2021, the Titan made its first trip down to the wreck of the Titanic."


Link Posted: 6/10/2024 8:49:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 6/10/2024 9:00:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I think his frustration was more that they were stringing everyone along for days when they knew damn well they were all dead. But until that rescue submersible went down and got photos of the debris field they "held out hope". I think he knows better than most the risks involved and what happens down there and just wanted the bandaid ripped off for the families to start the grieving process.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


Was it Craven's autobiography where he was mentioning they heard Scorpion implode from the other side of the Atlantic?  That was in the 60's.  Now, in addition to having hydrophones more places, we have signal processing that I'd not sure anyone not Claude Shannon then, could even describe.

So, not surprising the Navy heard it pop.  Next question from their POV is, do we talk, and if we do, how much of our (hopefully) secret capabilities will we end up revealing?

In the video, the Coast Guard Captain mentioned classification issues with the fact that the Navy knew right away.

Which has me wondering, is NSA going to seek the "little birdie" that told Cameron they heard the pop?

Cameron's insecurities really shine through in that interview.

Basically: how thorough can their investigation be if they haven't spoken to me? me! and hey, I'm an insider, because, because someone told me classified information! and here's the timestamp to help narrow it down!.

Accident investigations are very tight-lipped matters.  By procedure.  But, people get frustrated about the lack of communication/information (but undocumented chatter introduces biases that can wrongly influence an investigation), and antsy people are easy targets for 60 Minutes. It's 60 Minutes' business model.

Investigations will typically take a year.  I would expect this to take longer.
I think his frustration was more that they were stringing everyone along for days when they knew damn well they were all dead. But until that rescue submersible went down and got photos of the debris field they "held out hope". I think he knows better than most the risks involved and what happens down there and just wanted the bandaid ripped off for the families to start the grieving process.
The SOP is search until you find something conclusive, or reach the end of some articulable window of survival.  

We've had plenty of threads regarding SAR.  Sometimes with posts from people who are at the CP, or out searching, or showing up as an emergent volunteer.  It's the way these things go.  That O-6 could probably talk for hours about it, in general.  60 Minutes was "generous" to give him 15 seconds, or whatever it was.
Link Posted: 6/10/2024 9:06:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The USCG was supposed to enforce what in Canadian ports and waters?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

For manifestly unsafe voyages, yes, the USCG has done this at times.  While rare, they have done this.  And, to the extent that other vessels are duty bound to respond to distress, it is warranted.

This, however, didn't rise to that level.

The USCG was supposed to enforce what in Canadian ports and waters?

I'm speaking in general terms.  But, based on specific examples of very dangerous voyages they've allowed, and others they've put a halt to.
Link Posted: 6/10/2024 9:07:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
When you make a hull that might withstand the pressure...
DON'T DRILL A FUCKING HOLE IN IT !!
View Quote

Where did they do that?
Link Posted: 6/10/2024 10:21:51 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Where did they do that?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
When you make a hull that might withstand the pressure...
DON'T DRILL A FUCKING HOLE IN IT !!

Where did they do that?

lol, people still think they screwed the monitor mounts directly into the hull
Link Posted: 6/10/2024 11:08:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

As far as I know, Cameron isn't an engineer, so I take his technical assessments with the expectation that someone told him that information, not that he knows it firsthand.  At least he's smart enough to hire actual engineers in the naval architecture field to do his design work.
View Quote



Not sure if he is an engineer either but very experienced in DEEP water diving in a sub.  He got a team to build the challenger deep that took him down to the deepest part of the oceans on the planet. I think that sub can no longer dive that deep due to too many hull pressure events, could be wrong on this though.  There is a really cool YouTube video about the entire thing, even he had a few mishaps but nothing like that.
Link Posted: 6/10/2024 11:13:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Thanks for the insights on my last question (too many to quote).


Link Posted: 6/10/2024 11:23:16 PM EDT
[#14]
James Cameron  knows more than I will ever learn about deep sea exploration.


Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:58:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Theres a build video where he describes that the glue doesn't really matter once you get down far enough as the pressure seals the ends. He talks about his sub like he's some genius engineer and talks about the deal he got from expired carbon fiber from boeing or whoever, but as long as they build it thick enough it doesn't matter. The place that built the thing, also never did anything like that before. One of the reasons the 1st design cracked and they had to scrap it then built the 2nd one thinking it was better, then it blew up
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Carbon fiber is good with tensile loads, not good with compressive loads.  The ocean gate CEO was an idiot , anyone who got on that sub had zero common sense.  End of story.

This...this...and this.  IIRC....the pressure vessel ends were glued in place...WTF Stockton Rush was a dangerous man to himself and others.  His hubris killed.

Theres a build video where he describes that the glue doesn't really matter once you get down far enough as the pressure seals the ends. He talks about his sub like he's some genius engineer and talks about the deal he got from expired carbon fiber from boeing or whoever, but as long as they build it thick enough it doesn't matter. The place that built the thing, also never did anything like that before. One of the reasons the 1st design cracked and they had to scrap it then built the 2nd one thinking it was better, then it blew up


Yeah, the glue wasn't what killed them.  The Carbon Fiber was.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 8:32:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah, the glue wasn't what killed them.  The Carbon Fiber was.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Carbon fiber is good with tensile loads, not good with compressive loads.  The ocean gate CEO was an idiot , anyone who got on that sub had zero common sense.  End of story.

This...this...and this.  IIRC....the pressure vessel ends were glued in place...WTF Stockton Rush was a dangerous man to himself and others.  His hubris killed.

Theres a build video where he describes that the glue doesn't really matter once you get down far enough as the pressure seals the ends. He talks about his sub like he's some genius engineer and talks about the deal he got from expired carbon fiber from boeing or whoever, but as long as they build it thick enough it doesn't matter. The place that built the thing, also never did anything like that before. One of the reasons the 1st design cracked and they had to scrap it then built the 2nd one thinking it was better, then it blew up


Yeah, the glue wasn't what killed them.  The Carbon Fiber was.

And making it thick-walled just made it much worse - I'd be curious to know if they took that into account; I can't imagine that the fabricator didn't understand the implications of going with a thicker wall.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 9:34:44 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

And making it thick-walled just made it much worse - I'd be curious to know if they took that into account; I can't imagine that the fabricator didn't understand the implications of going with a thicker wall.
View Quote


The child engineers said it would be OK!

Page / 4
Next Page Arrow Left
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top