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Posted: 10/26/2019 1:18:05 AM EDT
[#1]
However, Senior Circuit Judge Loren A. Smith found that the government's rule fell within a common exception to the Fifth Amendment: property that is confiscated to advance the government's interest in promoting public safety.
"The law is different in this case because the government, as the sovereign, has the power to take property that is dangerous, diseased, or used in criminal activities without compensation," Smith wrote. "Here, ATF acted properly within the confines of the limited federal police power." There is no constitutional exception to the 5th amendment for "public safety". Nor is there a power of eminent domain elsewhere described in that document "for the purpose of public safety." Eminent domain is referred to only for public use. How can a taking be for public use something that the government is ordering to be surrendered or destroyed for no use, whatsoever? As far as "the sovreign" goes... no, that's also completely bass ackwards. The government doesn't have power as a result of it's "sovreignty." It has powers by endowment. It has only those powers it has been given by the people through the written US Constitution. That's literally the only thing that makes it legitimate. If the government has the authority to ban guns and order them destroyed with no compensation due to their owners, because of its "limited Federal police power" (limited by what? Where are these limits described?) then what's to say it can't ban ownership of cars and do exactly the same thing? If we're just going to say the government can ban anything if the government decides it's dangerous, then there is NO "limit" to what the government may ban. Fuck this guy. Mouth-breathing retard. And that's being generous. My cynical side thinks he knows he's full of shit. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 1:18:46 AM EDT
[#2]
Activist judges have subverted any idea of judicial impartiality.
The legislature is corrupt, the judiciary is corrupt, bureaucrats in the executive agencies are corrupt. We are just a few heartbeats away from a totalitarian state. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 1:20:13 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Um, actually never used in a crime. Reports from Vegas actually show there was no bump stock usage. 
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Posted: 10/26/2019 1:20:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Well they just keep turning the thermostat up one notch at a time and that fucking pot of water is going to eventually boil over...
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Posted: 10/26/2019 1:21:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, they were used in the Vegas shooting. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 1:21:34 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well they just keep turning the thermostat up one notch at a time and that fucking pot of water is going to eventually boil over... |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 1:25:40 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yah but all the frogs in it will be long dead |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 6:11:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's going to be awkward someday when they push too far and cities across America turn into what Mexico looked like last week. I don't want that. But I also don't want the worse evil of the Left's absolute tyranny and incoming famine and genocide if they took all power and took our most important rights away. It's shitty. Why can't they just stop and not ruin a good thing? ... |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 6:20:21 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 10/26/2019 6:32:00 AM EDT
[#10]
Democrats / communist always play the long game.
They know that many will not turn their stuff in, but after you pass your children will. Or they will get it when you go into a nursing home. Or as part of your estate. Same thing with full auto stuff. If no more is being made, the total number will eventually drop to zero. They are evil and patient. They have been heading down this path for years. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 6:35:04 AM EDT
[#11]
Judges do stupid ruling all the time because they never face repercussion for their bullshit.
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Posted: 10/26/2019 6:55:33 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In no way is that constitutional. At all. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 6:55:34 AM EDT
[#13]
OP,
The reason many of us “cared” about bump stocks was: The device meets the definition of semiautomatic fire as ruled by the ATF multiple times; The Donald, a NON-TECH/NON-GUN guy suddenly declares they’re illegal & he “doesn’t like them” and blamed Obama for allowing them, then banned them; No remuneration was provided to owners; Many semiautomatic rifles & pistols can be “bump fired” if they’re help properly, thus any can—in the future—capriciously be declared “machine guns;” The fact ATF reversed itself again isn’t surprising, they should be called the Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms, Tobacco, Explosives & Whimsy. But the hard fact is that a bumpstock is NOT a machine gun, and isn’t a gun alone, like silencers. This is like saying the tomato—a fruit, is now a vegetable. Oh wait, the NY .gov changed this scientific FACT for taxation purposes. Further, the .gov can ban any item regardless of facts & make you a felon, and not pay you for their whimsy. If this shit happened with women, gays, or minorities—my tax dollars would be thrown at reimbursement to those slighted snowflakes without regard; the fact that mostly white men are effected factors into the “no fuqs given” by the .gov. Any constitutionalists or gun owners who aren’t enraged by this ruling simply do not “get it” and are dangerous to other 2A and constitutionalists. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 7:00:57 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That needs to be appealed. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 7:01:44 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Scariest ruling I've seen in a long time. Shocked no one cares about this. This has implications far beyond guns. The Judge doesnt even cite SCOTUS ruling in Horne v. Dept of Agriculture from 2015 that says private property cant be physically taken for any reason. If the government can take any property they deem dangerous, we have no property rights. This is the first time the federal government has really made people destroy or turn in property. I hope this is appealed or we are all screwed. https://www.newsweek.com/bump-stock-ban-lawsuit-dismissed-1467834 |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 7:11:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Um, actually never used in a crime. Reports from Vegas actually show there was no bump stock usage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That's the total bullshit of it. There is no public safety exception to the Second Amendment. Nor is safety actually a concern, as bump stocks are almost never used in crimes. Tyrants want your guns so that they can do tyrannical things. Never forget it. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 7:38:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So where are we on the CoC? |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 7:40:46 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gun owners will obey it anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In no way is that constitutional. At all. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 7:48:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Um, actually never used in a crime. Reports from Vegas actually show there was no bump stock usage. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 7:51:17 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
“Bumpstock? What’s a bumpstock, Ossifer?” |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 7:52:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find that extremely hard to believe since a number of ARs had one. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 7:53:47 AM EDT
[#22]
I bet he said you can't be reimbursed for contraband and bump stocks are illegal machine guns.
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Posted: 10/26/2019 7:55:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet he said you can't be reimbursed for contraband and bump stocks are illegal machine guns. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:00:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Throw your bumpstock away and just make your AR legit full auto. Might as well. Same charge. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:12:57 AM EDT
[#25]
@schneecat - here is the report listing all the weapons used and which ones had bumpstocks.
http://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/Documents/1-October-FIT-Criminal-Investigative-Report-FINAL_080318.pdf |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:13:13 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Throw your bumpstock away and just make your AR legit full auto. Might as well. Same charge. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:37:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
However, Senior Circuit Judge Loren A. Smith found that the government's rule fell within a common exception to the Fifth Amendment: property that is confiscated to advance the government's interest in promoting public safety. "The law is different in this case because the government, as the sovereign, has the power to take property that is dangerous, diseased, or used in criminal activities without compensation," Smith wrote. "Here, ATF acted properly within the confines of the limited federal police power." A hole so big you could drive a truck through.
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:43:02 AM EDT
[#28]
The entire fallacy of forced acceptance of "compensation", or "buying back" are fake, red herring concepts to paper over acts of confiscation.
If I wanted the cash rather than the firearm I wouldn't have bought it, or I would have chosen to sell it of my own free will. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:43:16 AM EDT
[#29]
They can ban ANYTHING with no reimbursement if it is for "public safety".
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:45:16 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would be better to keep a DIAS or swiftlink.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yup. "Bumpstock? What's a bumpstock, Ossifer?" |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:48:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Forced acceptance of compensation is worse than outright confiscation because it falsely justifies the seizing of legally acquired, constutionally protected property from Americans.
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:51:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Government didn't "take property". They made the act of possession after a certain date illegal. Nothing more. People voluntarily turned over their property to the government. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:53:30 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A machine gun is a machine gun. At that point you might as well drill the third hole. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:53:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Scariest ruling I've seen in a long time. Shocked no one cares about this. This has implications far beyond guns. The Judge doesnt even cite SCOTUS ruling in Horne v. Dept of Agriculture from 2015 that says private property cant be physically taken for any reason. If the government can take any property they deem dangerous, we have no property rights. This is the first time the federal government has really made people destroy or turn in property. I hope this is appealed or we are all screwed. https://www.newsweek.com/bump-stock-ban-lawsuit-dismissed-1467834 and nope I'm sure there are other examples |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:53:37 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What about gold in the early 1930's? I would imagine that the fed govt calling in all the gold in circulation would've been a little more alarming than not reimbursing for bump stocks. You don't own the drivers license in your wallet. Govt property. Bump stocks are property of the individual. 8nBAIT |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 8:57:31 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Third holes are visible from the outside of a weapon. A DIAS is not, though it does require an M16 FCG to be installed. A DIAC or swiftlink has the additional benefit of working with standard AR15 FCG's and is small enough to fit in a small pocket or cubby when not in use. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 9:24:23 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Scariest ruling I've seen in a long time. Shocked no one cares about this. This has implications far beyond guns. The Judge doesnt even cite SCOTUS ruling in Horne v. Dept of Agriculture from 2015 that says private property cant be physically taken for any reason. If the government can take any property they deem dangerous, we have no property rights. This is the first time the federal government has really made people destroy or turn in property. I hope this is appealed or we are all screwed. https://www.newsweek.com/bump-stock-ban-lawsuit-dismissed-1467834 and nope I'm sure there are other examples |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 10:14:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, they were used in the Vegas shooting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Um, actually never used in a crime. Reports from Vegas actually show there was no bump stock usage. To me it shows a set up, because anyone can buy a real full auto trigger off EE for around $100. It doesn't become illegal until it gets to your house where you have AR15 lowers or AR15s. Just like buying a short barrel upper, own a AR pistol or registered lower good to go. Have a short barrel upper and a regular AR rifle/carbine you get constructive intent. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 10:15:40 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There were bump stocks in the room, but something tells me they were never used. To me it shows a set up, because anyone can buy a real full auto trigger off EE for around $100. It doesn't become illegal until it gets to your house where you have AR15 lowers or AR15s. Just like buying a short barrel upper, own a AR pistol or registered lower good to go. Have a short barrel upper and a regular AR rifle/carbine you get constructive intent. 
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Posted: 10/26/2019 10:16:18 AM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 10/26/2019 10:17:04 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ohhhhh Canada |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 10:29:51 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Government didn't "take property". They made the act of possession after a certain date illegal. Nothing more. People voluntarily turned over their property to the government. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Scariest ruling I've seen in a long time. Shocked no one cares about this. This has implications far beyond guns. The Judge doesnt even cite SCOTUS ruling in Horne v. Dept of Agriculture from 2015 that says private property cant be physically taken for any reason. If the government can take any property they deem dangerous, we have no property rights. This is the first time the federal government has really made people destroy or turn in property. I hope this is appealed or we are all screwed. https://www.newsweek.com/bump-stock-ban-lawsuit-dismissed-1467834 Coercion (/ko?'??r??n, -??n/) is the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force.[1] It involves a set of various types of forceful actions that violate the free will of an individual to induce a desired response, for example: a bully demanding lunch money from a student or the student gets beaten. These actions may include extortion, blackmail, torture, threats to induce favors, or even sexual assault. In law, coercion is codified as a duress crime. Such actions are used as leverage, to force the victim to act in a way contrary to their own interests. Coercion may involve the actual infliction of physical pain/injury or psychological harm in order to enhance the credibility of a threat. The threat of further harm may lead to the cooperation or obedience of the person being coerced. MAGA! 
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Posted: 10/26/2019 10:31:20 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There were bump stocks in the room, but something tells me they were never used. To me it shows a set up, because anyone can buy a real full auto trigger off EE for around $100. It doesn't become illegal until it gets to your house where you have AR15 lowers or AR15s. Just like buying a short barrel upper, own a AR pistol or registered lower good to go. Have a short barrel upper and a regular AR rifle/carbine you get constructive intent. Most AR's require milling the lower for an M16 FCG to fit. It's not like he had a bunch of BCI defense lowers with him. They were regularly available high end complete rifles. Many came with triggers that don't work with a swiftlink, but work great with a bumpstock. Thankfully he didn't know how to utilize a machinegun or there would be far more casualties. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 10:35:10 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Um, actually never used in a crime. Reports from Vegas actually show there was no bump stock usage. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 10:39:50 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So where are we on the CoC? IF I had a bumpstock I wouldn't have turned it in. But that is like opening Pandora's box because the way they did it, you might as well just go full-on non-compliance since the charge would be the same. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 10:47:28 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's going to be awkward someday when they push too far and cities across America turn into what Mexico looked like last week. I don't want that. But I also don't want the worse evil of the Left's absolute tyranny and incoming famine and genocide if they took all power and took our most important rights away. It's shitty. Why can't they just stop and not ruin a good thing? ... |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 11:04:12 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep,scary part wasn't the Bumpstocks,but they way they were banned.
Shirley the dems won't abuse that when they get back in power someday............... |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 11:04:25 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Obama appointee? A woman. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 11:05:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People don't care because it doesn't cause them any grief. Need to take away peoples homes and food. Food first. They'll get the message then. |
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Posted: 10/26/2019 11:07:06 AM EDT
[#50]
One recalls where other documentation from the .gov does not indicate use of bumpstock in a crime should be all that is needed to rule this ruling null and void.
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