User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 3:35:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Carry Handle is kinda crucial to the design. 1. Plastic CH lowers production cost vs machined aluminum rail of KSG 2. Provides quick and simple integral sight at the proper height for inline stock, further lowering cost to consumer as no need to buy sights vs buying RDS+Riser for KSG. https://www.alloutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/KS7_OD_sightchannel_DSC9639web.jpg 3. Looks cool, similar to the M41A and Morita space gats: http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/M41A_Pulse_Rifle?file=M41A_Pulse_Rifle.png http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Reelclothes_morita.jpg https://www.alloutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/KS7_OD_right_DSC9625hires.jpg |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 4:26:34 AM EDT
[#2]
I'm not sure I understand. Is that shotgun just a KSG with a carry handle? And what is the point of an enormous .22lr with an absurd looking tail?
I will admit the KS7 actually looks kinda cool to me. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 4:31:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That shotgun looks like the pulse rifle from Aliens...by that virtue alone, I kinda want one  |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 5:13:48 AM EDT
[#4]
My previous thread about shot show had these two guns in the linked article.
Both are a smart move by keltec. On the cp-33. While many here don't get it. Lots of people who were interested in the cmr/pmr-30's lamented there wasn't a 22lr version of the firearms. Especially because of the crazy mag design that allows for 30 rounds in a flush fit mag. This thing does that and apparently holds 33 rounds. The CP likely uses the carbine style instead of the pistol design. Mostly due to the delayed blow back the pistol is supposed to employ. Where the CMR design is a simple reliable blowback like a 10/22. The ks7 is just a economy version of the ksg. Bringing it down to half capacity for greatly reduced weight, size, and price doesn't sound like a bad deal. Also here in AK there at least 6-10 newer model Kel tecs in a normal lgs I frequent. The pmr-30 now retails for 340 now that the hype has died. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 6:18:51 AM EDT
[#5]
Wow. Rachel from AAC is still around? Interesting to see her as the "face" of Shot Show 2019.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 6:59:33 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow. Rachel from AAC is still around? Interesting to see her as the "face" of Shot Show 2019. https://i2.wp.com/www.gunsholstersandgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/SHOT-Show-2019-1.jpg Silencers have a stigma in the minds of sheep. Why feed it? Should have put a pic of a mom & son or daddy and daughter shooting together wearing normal non Tatical clothes with suppressors. She is hot tho. Off topic... Back on topic. I think I’m more interested in seeing a video of the CP33 mag than anything. I wonder how hard it it to load? Any tricks to it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 8:47:47 AM EDT
[#7]
If they figured out how to get quad stack 22 mags to work it’s a game changer.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 9:17:18 AM EDT
[#8]
That CP33 has my interest!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 9:32:41 AM EDT
[#9]
That pistol is pretty sweet.
Been looking at the other one they make for a while. Would be awesome for backpacking/small game hunting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 11:51:59 AM EDT
[#10]
love it
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 12:16:02 PM EDT
[#11]
If the KS7 proves to be reasonably reliable (even just on par with the KSG), and I can get one for $450 or less OTD, I'll buy one.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 12:17:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get the joke and all, but... do you know why it's such a common complaint that KT items are out of stock/hard to get? The demand is insane, and they produce a whole lot more than most people seem to realize. According to the ATF FFL manufacturer reports, KT's production numbers are some of the very highest in the nation for shotguns and pistols, and they're no slouch in the rifle category either. ETA: In 2016 (the most recent year with a complete Annual Firearms Manufacturing and Export Report available), Kel Tec produced 57,802 pistols, 10,003 rifles, and 29,329 shotguns. As an example, only Remington and Maverick made more shotguns. Kel Tec produced more than Beretta. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Here's the KelTec way: Introduced at SHOT 2019: Shipping Q3 '19. Two will go out to YouTubers in July. One of these will end up in Recoil in August. October 2019: Shipping Q1 '20. Three examples will go out to internet bloggers December '19. SHOT 2020: Shipping Q4 2020 Nothing is said until SHOT 2021... Then: Shipping Q2 '21 Seven show up on Gunbroker around November for preorder at twice MSRP. Only one will ever be delivered. Nothing is mentioned at SHOT 2022. Press release goes out in May 2022 that they are shipping, finally. Nine will go out to dealers in Twin Falls, Idaho; Reno, Nevada; some place in the panhandle of Florida and there's a rumor one was spotted in Ohio. SHOT 2023: They're being pimped again with KelTec reps swearing that the "bugs have been worked out and they're ready to ship Q2 of 2023!" They quietly disappear from the website in September 2023. ETA: In 2016 (the most recent year with a complete Annual Firearms Manufacturing and Export Report available), Kel Tec produced 57,802 pistols, 10,003 rifles, and 29,329 shotguns. As an example, only Remington and Maverick made more shotguns. Kel Tec produced more than Beretta. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 1:06:56 PM EDT
[#13]
deleted
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 4:05:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How are they still in business? What would their primary business be? I haven't been to the factory in about a decade, but last time I was there, the entire property was 100% dedicated to firearms production... George Kelgren founded Kel-Tec in the early 90s. That company's page says it's been around since 1958. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 5:11:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a totally different company. George Kelgren founded Kel-Tec in the early 90s. That company's page says it's been around since 1958. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How are they still in business? What would their primary business be? I haven't been to the factory in about a decade, but last time I was there, the entire property was 100% dedicated to firearms production... George Kelgren founded Kel-Tec in the early 90s. That company's page says it's been around since 1958. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2019 5:49:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a totally different company. George Kelgren founded Kel-Tec in the early 90s. That company's page says it's been around since 1958. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2019 12:32:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except Kel-Tex operates without taking out any business loans after Kelgren’s problems in the past. They would have a much greater chance of keeping up with production if they would invest in expanding manufacturing capacity.  I entirely understand his hesitation, and this way he'll be able to retain a functioning company, come what may.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2019 3:38:42 PM EDT
[#18]
I wonder how many people who criticize KelTec run a business that's been successful for 20 years
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2019 3:55:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they figured out how to get quad stack 22 mags to work it’s a game changer. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2019 4:12:34 PM EDT
[#20]
I don't think I've ever wanted a pistol as much as the CP-33. It may not have any practical purposes, but that thing is going to be amazingly fun to shoot suppressed.
My PMR and CMR-30 have run perfectly so I'm pretty confident they can pull this off. I just wish the shot gun was a semi-auto KSG rather than a cheaper KSG, though at that price point I think they'll sell a ton of them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2019 4:35:20 PM EDT
[#21]
The CP 33 with a stock and can would be an awesome backpacking rifle.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2019 4:45:52 PM EDT
[#22]
video game bullshit
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2019 4:52:43 PM EDT
[#23]
33-shot.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2019 4:59:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quad stack rimmed cartridge magazines
what could go wrong |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2019 5:36:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
video game bullshit 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2019 5:42:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And he can lose a third (fourth?) business to debt after yet another categorical ban. I entirely understand his hesitation, and this way he'll be able to retain a functioning company, come what may.What doesn't make sense, is they don't raise their prices when the hard to find rare new guns are going for 1800 on gunbroker. With an extra thousand per KSG they could have bought a lot of manufacturing capacity with cash reserves. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2019 7:25:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Such a valuable contribution you've made. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2019 7:30:40 PM EDT
[#28]
I have a PMR30 and a KSG. The PMR is a lot of fun, accurate and have not had any problems until I put a Burris Fastfire dot on it... then it wouldn't cycle. The factory sights work for me. The KSG was VERY unreliable, all feeding problems, until I honed the bearing surfaces that get the next shell to feed. Now it's reliable, feeds everything, even low brass and cycles very smoothly, especially in that last 1/4" or so of racking it. Doesn't take the slamming it used to.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2019 7:52:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Massive Police and military contracts is how other companies can do it. Not to mention most of those other companies produce other things as well. For example Glock mak grenades and knives, and all kinds of tools and military gadgets. Other companies also have signed production and contracts to fill for other companies for parts they don't have the capacity to produce. Even Ruger has a lot of police and military contracts, and do metal casting for parts that aren't even related to guns for other companies. Kel tecs entire market, nearly anyway, is civilian. you could've at least use that huge brain of yours to figure that one out. DeVry University business degrees aren't real business degrees. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Anyone can look on Google and see that Kel tec has a rotating production line. They do this so they can evenly produce enough numbers of their entire product line without gaps of years between them. They try to meet demand, but the fact is they don't have to. All their guns are going to sell. Do you understand this basic fact? They run an extremely successful business regardless of whether or not you're not happy that you can't get their shit when you want it. Impatient people like you are why Magpul no longer releases information about what they may be producing in the future. It's also why they don't post on this forum very often anymore. Many companies have followed this because of people like you on this forum. How is it that these other gun manufacturers can do it but Kel-Tec can't figure it out? ETA: to address this idiotic argument and thinly veiled shot at me for being impatient - who gives a shit about what you define as extremely successful? If they're not meeting demand consistently, then they're missing out on potential revenue and it's pretty obvious it's A LOT of revenue they're missing. Also, it turns away a lot of potential customers as well if they want your product but can't get it. They move on and look elsewhere. Again, lost revenue. Yeah, great business decision. Even Ruger has a lot of police and military contracts, and do metal casting for parts that aren't even related to guns for other companies. Kel tecs entire market, nearly anyway, is civilian. you could've at least use that huge brain of yours to figure that one out. DeVry University business degrees aren't real business degrees. What do making knives and grenades have to do with producing plenty of brand new civilian handguns for sale? Yeah, not a damn thing. Bunch of people sound like Dave Ramsey acolytes with the "debt is bad in all circumstances, mmmkay!" Debt is financial leverage. Kel-Tec royally fucked up by not taking on some good ol' fashioned leverage to expand production years ago. They could have already paid it off and be making profits in spades. Now they continue to produce what amounts to prototype firearms, most of which will never be seen out in the wild by the majority of people. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2019 8:06:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's hilarious. Didn't understand my sig line I see. What do making knives and grenades have to do with producing plenty of brand new civilian handguns for sale? Yeah, not a damn thing. Bunch of people sound like Dave Ramsey acolytes with the "debt is bad in all circumstances, mmmkay!" Debt is financial leverage. Kel-Tec royally fucked up by not taking on some good ol' fashioned leverage to expand production years ago. They could have already paid it off and be making profits in spades. Now they continue to produce what amounts to prototype firearms, most of which will never be seen out in the wild by the majority of people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Anyone can look on Google and see that Kel tec has a rotating production line. They do this so they can evenly produce enough numbers of their entire product line without gaps of years between them. They try to meet demand, but the fact is they don't have to. All their guns are going to sell. Do you understand this basic fact? They run an extremely successful business regardless of whether or not you're not happy that you can't get their shit when you want it. Impatient people like you are why Magpul no longer releases information about what they may be producing in the future. It's also why they don't post on this forum very often anymore. Many companies have followed this because of people like you on this forum. How is it that these other gun manufacturers can do it but Kel-Tec can't figure it out? ETA: to address this idiotic argument and thinly veiled shot at me for being impatient - who gives a shit about what you define as extremely successful? If they're not meeting demand consistently, then they're missing out on potential revenue and it's pretty obvious it's A LOT of revenue they're missing. Also, it turns away a lot of potential customers as well if they want your product but can't get it. They move on and look elsewhere. Again, lost revenue. Yeah, great business decision. Even Ruger has a lot of police and military contracts, and do metal casting for parts that aren't even related to guns for other companies. Kel tecs entire market, nearly anyway, is civilian. you could've at least use that huge brain of yours to figure that one out. DeVry University business degrees aren't real business degrees. What do making knives and grenades have to do with producing plenty of brand new civilian handguns for sale? Yeah, not a damn thing. Bunch of people sound like Dave Ramsey acolytes with the "debt is bad in all circumstances, mmmkay!" Debt is financial leverage. Kel-Tec royally fucked up by not taking on some good ol' fashioned leverage to expand production years ago. They could have already paid it off and be making profits in spades. Now they continue to produce what amounts to prototype firearms, most of which will never be seen out in the wild by the majority of people. You think its so easy, so go do it. Put your ass on the line. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2019 10:13:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's hilarious. Didn't understand my sig line I see. What do making knives and grenades have to do with producing plenty of brand new civilian handguns for sale? Yeah, not a damn thing. Bunch of people sound like Dave Ramsey acolytes with the "debt is bad in all circumstances, mmmkay!" Debt is financial leverage. Kel-Tec royally fucked up by not taking on some good ol' fashioned leverage to expand production years ago. They could have already paid it off and be making profits in spades. Now they continue to produce what amounts to prototype firearms, most of which will never be seen out in the wild by the majority of people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Anyone can look on Google and see that Kel tec has a rotating production line. They do this so they can evenly produce enough numbers of their entire product line without gaps of years between them. They try to meet demand, but the fact is they don't have to. All their guns are going to sell. Do you understand this basic fact? They run an extremely successful business regardless of whether or not you're not happy that you can't get their shit when you want it. Impatient people like you are why Magpul no longer releases information about what they may be producing in the future. It's also why they don't post on this forum very often anymore. Many companies have followed this because of people like you on this forum. How is it that these other gun manufacturers can do it but Kel-Tec can't figure it out? ETA: to address this idiotic argument and thinly veiled shot at me for being impatient - who gives a shit about what you define as extremely successful? If they're not meeting demand consistently, then they're missing out on potential revenue and it's pretty obvious it's A LOT of revenue they're missing. Also, it turns away a lot of potential customers as well if they want your product but can't get it. They move on and look elsewhere. Again, lost revenue. Yeah, great business decision. Even Ruger has a lot of police and military contracts, and do metal casting for parts that aren't even related to guns for other companies. Kel tecs entire market, nearly anyway, is civilian. you could've at least use that huge brain of yours to figure that one out. DeVry University business degrees aren't real business degrees. What do making knives and grenades have to do with producing plenty of brand new civilian handguns for sale? Yeah, not a damn thing. Bunch of people sound like Dave Ramsey acolytes with the "debt is bad in all circumstances, mmmkay!" Debt is financial leverage. Kel-Tec royally fucked up by not taking on some good ol' fashioned leverage to expand production years ago. They could have already paid it off and be making profits in spades. Now they continue to produce what amounts to prototype firearms, most of which will never be seen out in the wild by the majority of people. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2019 10:59:30 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's hilarious. Didn't understand my sig line I see. What do making knives and grenades have to do with producing plenty of brand new civilian handguns for sale? Yeah, not a damn thing. Bunch of people sound like Dave Ramsey acolytes with the "debt is bad in all circumstances, mmmkay!" Debt is financial leverage. Kel-Tec royally fucked up by not taking on some good ol' fashioned leverage to expand production years ago. They could have already paid it off and be making profits in spades. Now they continue to produce what amounts to prototype firearms, most of which will never be seen out in the wild by the majority of people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Anyone can look on Google and see that Kel tec has a rotating production line. They do this so they can evenly produce enough numbers of their entire product line without gaps of years between them. They try to meet demand, but the fact is they don't have to. All their guns are going to sell. Do you understand this basic fact? They run an extremely successful business regardless of whether or not you're not happy that you can't get their shit when you want it. Impatient people like you are why Magpul no longer releases information about what they may be producing in the future. It's also why they don't post on this forum very often anymore. Many companies have followed this because of people like you on this forum. How is it that these other gun manufacturers can do it but Kel-Tec can't figure it out? ETA: to address this idiotic argument and thinly veiled shot at me for being impatient - who gives a shit about what you define as extremely successful? If they're not meeting demand consistently, then they're missing out on potential revenue and it's pretty obvious it's A LOT of revenue they're missing. Also, it turns away a lot of potential customers as well if they want your product but can't get it. They move on and look elsewhere. Again, lost revenue. Yeah, great business decision. Even Ruger has a lot of police and military contracts, and do metal casting for parts that aren't even related to guns for other companies. Kel tecs entire market, nearly anyway, is civilian. you could've at least use that huge brain of yours to figure that one out. DeVry University business degrees aren't real business degrees. What do making knives and grenades have to do with producing plenty of brand new civilian handguns for sale? Yeah, not a damn thing. Bunch of people sound like Dave Ramsey acolytes with the "debt is bad in all circumstances, mmmkay!" Debt is financial leverage. Kel-Tec royally fucked up by not taking on some good ol' fashioned leverage to expand production years ago. They could have already paid it off and be making profits in spades. Now they continue to produce what amounts to prototype firearms, most of which will never be seen out in the wild by the majority of people. What products of theirs have been totally vaporware? The RFB seems to be pretty rare but ever since they bumped up production a while back many guns are not such as the Sub2ks and RDB. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2019 11:03:00 PM EDT
[#33]
That CP33 needs a binary trigger.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2019 11:48:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now that I know the CP33 is 22LR it might have my interest. The PMR30 is neat but a stupid dead caliber. Should have been 5.7. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 12:03:32 AM EDT
[#35]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 12:15:05 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's the KelTec way: Introduced at SHOT 2019: Shipping Q3 '19. Two will go out to YouTubers in July. One of these will end up in Recoil in August. October 2019: Shipping Q1 '20. Three examples will go out to internet bloggers December '19. SHOT 2020: Shipping Q4 2020 Nothing is said until SHOT 2021... Then: Shipping Q2 '21 Seven show up on Gunbroker around November for preorder at twice MSRP. Only one will ever be delivered. Nothing is mentioned at SHOT 2022. Press release goes out in May 2022 that they are shipping, finally. Nine will go out to dealers in Twin Falls, Idaho; Reno, Nevada; some place in the panhandle of Florida and there's a rumor one was spotted in Ohio. SHOT 2023: They're being pimped again with KelTec reps swearing that the "bugs have been worked out and they're ready to ship Q2 of 2023!" They quietly disappear from the website in September 2023. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 11:35:30 AM EDT
[#37]
You both replied so I'll reply to both of you:
If they don't want to raise debt to expand, fine. That still leaves them with their pricing model being completely wrong with respect to the demand curve. They should raise their prices and decrease demand commensurate with what they can supply. Per the chart below, they should be moving the price in the other direction from P1 to P, where point A is where the supply curve crosses, i.e. the number of units Kel-Tec can produce. And by the way, their profit margin on every unit sold would be significantly higher doing that without changing the number of units sold. 
Thanks for attending today's lesson. @zedsdeadbaby @alaskanfire |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 11:38:29 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet with that finger support thing on the side you can bump fire this thing haha https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/319551/cp33_jpg-804067.JPG When I first saw the article I was thinking that it was going to be a 9mm or .40 (USPSA Limited!?) but a .22lr, no thanks |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 11:47:48 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
video game bullshit  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 11:49:39 AM EDT
[#40]
More hot garbage I won't buy or stock.
Wtg, Kel-Tec. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 11:51:32 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You both replied so I'll reply to both of you: If they don't want to raise debt to expand, fine. That still leaves them with their pricing model being completely wrong with respect to the demand curve. They should raise their prices and decrease demand commensurate with what they can supply. Per the chart below, they should be moving the price in the other direction from P1 to P, where point A is where the supply curve crosses, i.e. the number of units Kel-Tec can produce. And by the way, their profit margin on every unit sold would be significantly higher doing that without changing the number of units sold. http://www.revisealevel.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Demand-Curve.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/UBUfx.jpg Thanks for attending today's lesson. @zedsdeadbaby @alaskanfire They are still trying to build a quality reputation. If Kelgren is happy making the margins he is making, then who am I to complain? Yes, he could probably expand and bump production with more margin per unit up front, but I could still buy what I want from them, it just takes some looking or patience on certain things. I told my gun shop to order an RFB the day after they were announced, and one showed up a month or so later, sub 500 SN, sub $1400. I bought it. As opposed to DesertTech, who handled their MDR launch completely differently and are still floundering to get out a serviceable rifle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 12:01:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not the face I would have chosen. Silencers have a stigma in the minds of sheep. Why feed it? Should have put a pic of a mom & son or daddy and daughter shooting together wearing normal non Tatical clothes with suppressors. She is hot tho. Off topic... Back on topic. I think I’m more interested in seeing a video of the CP33 mag than anything. I wonder how hard it it to load? Any tricks to it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 12:07:47 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a feeling that demand would drop off quickly as MSRP increased, based on the name on the side alone. They are still trying to build a quality reputation. If Kelgren is happy making the margins he is making, then who am I to complain? Yes, he could probably expand and bump production with more margin per unit up front, but I could still buy what I want from them, it just takes some looking or patience on certain things. I told my gun shop to order an RFB the day after they were announced, and one showed up a month or so later, sub 500 SN, sub $1400. I bought it. As opposed to DesertTech, who handled their MDR launch completely differently and are still floundering to get out a serviceable rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You both replied so I'll reply to both of you: If they don't want to raise debt to expand, fine. That still leaves them with their pricing model being completely wrong with respect to the demand curve. They should raise their prices and decrease demand commensurate with what they can supply. Per the chart below, they should be moving the price in the other direction from P1 to P, where point A is where the supply curve crosses, i.e. the number of units Kel-Tec can produce. And by the way, their profit margin on every unit sold would be significantly higher doing that without changing the number of units sold. http://www.revisealevel.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Demand-Curve.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/UBUfx.jpg Thanks for attending today's lesson. @zedsdeadbaby @alaskanfire They are still trying to build a quality reputation. If Kelgren is happy making the margins he is making, then who am I to complain? Yes, he could probably expand and bump production with more margin per unit up front, but I could still buy what I want from them, it just takes some looking or patience on certain things. I told my gun shop to order an RFB the day after they were announced, and one showed up a month or so later, sub 500 SN, sub $1400. I bought it. As opposed to DesertTech, who handled their MDR launch completely differently and are still floundering to get out a serviceable rifle. It's a PR problem. Look at all the people in this thread who laughed at 'The Kel-Tec Way' post. They know what's up. I'm just hoping Kel-Tec is paying attention to this thread. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 12:20:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's possible the demand curve is steeper and changes in price could affect demand more drastically. But they do have a drastic problem with demand for their stuff at the prices being offered so they should be doing something. Either expanding to increase supply to meet demand at that price point or change the price point. If you're not doing either, you're doing it wrong. It's a PR problem. Look at all the people in this thread who laughed at 'The Kel-Tec Way' post. They know what's up. I'm just hoping Kel-Tec is paying attention to this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You both replied so I'll reply to both of you: If they don't want to raise debt to expand, fine. That still leaves them with their pricing model being completely wrong with respect to the demand curve. They should raise their prices and decrease demand commensurate with what they can supply. Per the chart below, they should be moving the price in the other direction from P1 to P, where point A is where the supply curve crosses, i.e. the number of units Kel-Tec can produce. And by the way, their profit margin on every unit sold would be significantly higher doing that without changing the number of units sold. http://www.revisealevel.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Demand-Curve.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/UBUfx.jpg Thanks for attending today's lesson. @zedsdeadbaby @alaskanfire They are still trying to build a quality reputation. If Kelgren is happy making the margins he is making, then who am I to complain? Yes, he could probably expand and bump production with more margin per unit up front, but I could still buy what I want from them, it just takes some looking or patience on certain things. I told my gun shop to order an RFB the day after they were announced, and one showed up a month or so later, sub 500 SN, sub $1400. I bought it. As opposed to DesertTech, who handled their MDR launch completely differently and are still floundering to get out a serviceable rifle. It's a PR problem. Look at all the people in this thread who laughed at 'The Kel-Tec Way' post. They know what's up. I'm just hoping Kel-Tec is paying attention to this thread. Nobody is arguing they couldn’t make more money if they wanted only that their business model has been proven successful over several decades. They are obviously meeting some of their own goals or they would have changed. The gun market is a fickle bitch and once you carve yourself out a slice sometimes just keeping it is enough. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 12:28:40 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's possible the demand curve is steeper and changes in price could affect demand more drastically. But they do have a drastic problem with demand for their stuff at the prices being offered so they should be doing something. Either expanding to increase supply to meet demand at that price point or change the price point. If you're not doing either, you're doing it wrong. It's a PR problem. Look at all the people in this thread who laughed at 'The Kel-Tec Way' post. They know what's up. I'm just hoping Kel-Tec is paying attention to this thread. Like I said there are several new "OMG we have to have it" Kel tec products at the lgs near me. They aren't selling. Without the lower production numbers they have I think they would have a really hard time with sales. Also their ability to support the lifetime warranty would likely go as well. (Something the guns desperately need) Also as a fan of their products I do like they make something different often. So I look forward to searching for these things when they eventually come out. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 12:44:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You keep saying wrong but what you mean is they haven't maximized profit to your liking. Nobody is arguing they couldn't make more money if they wanted only that their business model has been proven successful over several decades. They are obviously meeting some of their own goals or they would have changed. The gun market is a fickle bitch and once you carve yourself out a slice sometimes just keeping it is enough. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You both replied so I'll reply to both of you: If they don't want to raise debt to expand, fine. That still leaves them with their pricing model being completely wrong with respect to the demand curve. They should raise their prices and decrease demand commensurate with what they can supply. Per the chart below, they should be moving the price in the other direction from P1 to P, where point A is where the supply curve crosses, i.e. the number of units Kel-Tec can produce. And by the way, their profit margin on every unit sold would be significantly higher doing that without changing the number of units sold. http://www.revisealevel.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Demand-Curve.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/UBUfx.jpg Thanks for attending today's lesson. @zedsdeadbaby @alaskanfire They are still trying to build a quality reputation. If Kelgren is happy making the margins he is making, then who am I to complain? Yes, he could probably expand and bump production with more margin per unit up front, but I could still buy what I want from them, it just takes some looking or patience on certain things. I told my gun shop to order an RFB the day after they were announced, and one showed up a month or so later, sub 500 SN, sub $1400. I bought it. As opposed to DesertTech, who handled their MDR launch completely differently and are still floundering to get out a serviceable rifle. It's a PR problem. Look at all the people in this thread who laughed at 'The Kel-Tec Way' post. They know what's up. I'm just hoping Kel-Tec is paying attention to this thread. Nobody is arguing they couldn't make more money if they wanted only that their business model has been proven successful over several decades. They are obviously meeting some of their own goals or they would have changed. The gun market is a fickle bitch and once you carve yourself out a slice sometimes just keeping it is enough. I mentioned it already in this thread but I'll reiterate: I'm not a Kel-Tec hater. I love their stuff. But that doesn't mean I can't criticize what I see as poor decisions they're making now that they have brand recognition. My interest is in their long-term success because I'd like to own more of their guns. Some people get their jimmies rustled when you tell it like it is but blowing sunshine up a company's ass doesn't get anyone anywhere. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 12:54:28 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My interest is in their long-term success because I'd like to own more of their guns. Some people get their jimmies rustled when you tell it like it is but blowing sunshine up a company's ass doesn't get anyone anywhere. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 12:56:54 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The CP33 actually looks kind of neat, would be a fun range toy |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 1:00:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, built to be something like 9mm - and not made by Kel-Tec, it would probably be a nice poor mans racegun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2019 1:00:05 PM EDT
[#50]
They sure love the "space age" grid on their grips.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
.jpg)
Attached File