[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Keltec has lost their mind: PR57 5,7 front lock breech top stripper clip feed defensive pistol (Page 8 of 9)
|
Quoted: I'm out  same  edit: it looks like it's ejecting brass https://youtu.be/R-Rs22hes_w?t=195 |
|
YouTube notes it took 2 keltec employees to clear a jam at range day  SHOT Show 2025 Range Day Highlights! - The BEST and the WORST |
|
You save a fair amount in girth not having magazine (or not making grip itself a detachable magazine). In a gun like this, difference between it being double versus single stack. You're also taking 2-3 oz off in weight (and a bunch of complexity). This is an awesome "last ditch" gun. 2 ounces heavier than a 340 PD (and probably about the same weight with 10 rounds of 5.7 as opposed to 5 of .357. Pretty intriguing. Street price of 300? Yes please. |
|
Quoted: no need to tap to see if the mag isn't seated if the mag can't be unseated Just rack and bang Quoted: Quoted: All fun and games until the first malfunction, no Tap, rack, bang. It is certainly interesting, not a fan of the caliber. Just rack and bang or No Rack, no bang.... So much for your theory based on the video posted....  No Mag to strip to help clear the malfuction.
|
|
Quoted:
Trolling Level Eleven right there! |
|
Quoted: 5.7x28 is a non-starter. The ammo is hard to find, quite expensive, and exceptionally difficult to reload. I bought a PS90 in 2020. I ended up selling it before ever shooting it because the ammo was such a shitstorm. The ammo situation may be better in 2025 than it was in 2020, but that cartridge is dead to me. 2020 is a poor barometer for ammo prices and availability. It's pretty easy to find and prices aren't too bad, especially if you're used to shooting 10mm and .45 ACP. |
|
Quoted: or No Rack, no bang.... So much for your theory based on the video posted.... No Mag to strip to help clear the malfuction.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: All fun and games until the first malfunction, no Tap, rack, bang. It is certainly interesting, not a fan of the caliber. Just rack and bang or No Rack, no bang.... So much for your theory based on the video posted.... No Mag to strip to help clear the malfuction.Because there's NEVER been a malfunction which Tap, Rack, squeeze failed to solve, amiright? |
|
Quoted: Because there's NEVER been a malfunction which Tap, Rack, squeeze failed to solve, amiright? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: All fun and games until the first malfunction, no Tap, rack, bang. It is certainly interesting, not a fan of the caliber. Just rack and bang or No Rack, no bang.... So much for your theory based on the video posted.... No Mag to strip to help clear the malfuction.Because there's NEVER been a malfunction which Tap, Rack, squeeze failed to solve, amiright? The odds are more in your favor with a magazine fed pistol then this...You do you thought, I'll stick to a reliable pistol that's proven. |
|
Quoted: I really think this is a gun designed by a Swedish ex-pat for Swedish ex-pats - and anyone else who has a taste for the unusual. I don't really see it as a breakout in the lady gun space. Once they publish the manual, there will be a lot of questions answered. On 1 April, we should all call Kel-Tec CS and ask for PR57 magazines. Say there wasn't one in the box. My wife has a tendency to load ammo backwards in magazines and magazines backwards in pistols. So the cartridges are oriented correctly but obviously won't feed. She may get it right with one of these, but she has a job application in with HK just in case. |
|
Quoted: Absolutely. All though it sucks that the industry has to constantly try to work around Blue State insanity. Quoted: Quoted: Bypassing detachable magazine capacity state bans? Don't shit on them for giving options Absolutely. All though it sucks that the industry has to constantly try to work around Blue State insanity. |
|
Quoted:
|
|
Quoted:
|
|
Quoted: It doesn't appear to bypass any ban state, save Portland. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bypassing detachable magazine capacity state bans? Don't shit on them for giving options Absolutely. All though it sucks that the industry has to constantly try to work around Blue State insanity. Yeah, doesn't even seem to help there - W/o an Oregon permit, you can't even have a loaded clip. 
|
|
Quoted: My wife has a tendency to load ammo backwards in magazines and magazines backwards in pistols. So the cartridges are oriented correctly but obviously won't feed. She may get it right with one of these, but she has a job application in with HK just in case. Quoted: Quoted: I really think this is a gun designed by a Swedish ex-pat for Swedish ex-pats - and anyone else who has a taste for the unusual. I don't really see it as a breakout in the lady gun space. Once they publish the manual, there will be a lot of questions answered. On 1 April, we should all call Kel-Tec CS and ask for PR57 magazines. Say there wasn't one in the box. My wife has a tendency to load ammo backwards in magazines and magazines backwards in pistols. So the cartridges are oriented correctly but obviously won't feed. She may get it right with one of these, but she has a job application in with HK just in case. Get her a Bond Arms Bullpup - formerly the Boberg - feeds backwards out of the magazine. |
|
Quoted: YouTube notes it took 2 keltec employees to clear a jam at range day  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGg9l6r_P4AYep. That didn't take long. I keep mentioning this on youtube comments and the replies are always "well it won't jam because most jams are magazine related"  Love ya kel tec, but this should not be marketed as a life safety tool, they're begging for a lawsuit. Maybe whoever wins will collaberate with them and invest in aluminum CNC manufacturing. On the plus side, there's a niche for a bayonet mount... |
|
eh, I'm seeing a gun that uses externally lubricated ammo, has shot thousands of rounds without any cleaning, is getting constantly covered in fine dusty sand, and has been on camera for hours of constant shooting and has only jammed once. I'd be pretty happy with that. |
|
BIG QUESTION though: How the hell do you unload the damn thing? If this pistol is intended to be an easy, no nonsense pistol for inexperienced shooters to carry and shoot without complicated magazines, safeties, etc. . . . then the only way for said inexperienced person to unload the pistol can't possibly be to either shoot all of the rounds or manually chamber and eject every single round - without a manual safety - right? Am I missing something here, or is this a major design flaw? If it's the latter, then I can already imagine all of the lawsuits that Keltec is going to get slapped with in the future. |
|
Quoted: BIG QUESTION though: How the hell do you unload the damn thing? If this pistol is intended to be an easy, no nonsense pistol for inexperienced shooters to carry and shoot without complicated magazines, safeties, etc. . . . then the only way for said inexperienced person to unload the pistol can't possibly be to either shoot all of the rounds or manually chamber and eject every single round - without a manual safety - right? Am I missing something here, or is this a major design flaw? If it's the latter, then I can already imagine all of the lawsuits that Keltec is going to get slapped with in the future. It's inconvenient; I'm not convinced it's as big an issue as you seem to think it is. |
|
Quoted: BIG QUESTION though: How the hell do you unload the damn thing? If this pistol is intended to be an easy, no nonsense pistol for inexperienced shooters to carry and shoot without complicated magazines, safeties, etc. . . . then the only way for said inexperienced person to unload the pistol can't possibly be to either shoot all of the rounds or manually chamber and eject every single round - without a manual safety - right? Am I missing something here, or is this a major design flaw? If it's the latter, then I can already imagine all of the lawsuits that Keltec is going to get slapped with in the future. can you imagine a DEI hire female cop trying to unload it during a stop? she would kill everyone. |
|
Quoted: can you imagine a DEI hire female cop trying to unload it during a stop? she would kill everyone. Quoted: Quoted: BIG QUESTION though: How the hell do you unload the damn thing? If this pistol is intended to be an easy, no nonsense pistol for inexperienced shooters to carry and shoot without complicated magazines, safeties, etc. . . . then the only way for said inexperienced person to unload the pistol can't possibly be to either shoot all of the rounds or manually chamber and eject every single round - without a manual safety - right? Am I missing something here, or is this a major design flaw? If it's the latter, then I can already imagine all of the lawsuits that Keltec is going to get slapped with in the future. can you imagine a DEI hire female cop trying to unload it during a stop? she would kill everyone. Fortunately 5.7x28mm is not more powerful than .22 Magnum, so she'd just be able to kill any prairie dogs in the vicinity.
|
|
I'm not seeing a reason you couldn't rack out the chambered round, push down on the top round of the mag and ease the slide over it, push the trigger forward to remove the upper, and then thumb-out the rounds if you really didn't want to rack the slide to unload That may seem like a lot when he steps are listed out like that, but it should take about 5 seconds or so from wanting to unload to starting thumb out the rounds. |
|
Quoted: Fortunately 5.7x28mm is not more powerful than .22 Magnum, so she'd just be able to kill any prairie dogs in the vicinity. Crazy. I looked up the energy specs and it appears your statement is generally correct (ignoring ammo varieties and barrel length). |
|
Quoted: Is the case coating really necessary in this application? I thought it was only needed to function in P90 magazines because of the perpendicular orientation. I thought the lubrication was because the P90 is blowback, and the FiveseveN is done kind of retarded-blowback. This new pistol is short-recoil. |
|
Quoted: I thought the lubrication was because the P90 is blowback, and the FiveseveN is done kind of retarded-blowback. This new pistol is short-recoil. Quoted: Quoted: Is the case coating really necessary in this application? I thought it was only needed to function in P90 magazines because of the perpendicular orientation. I thought the lubrication was because the P90 is blowback, and the FiveseveN is done kind of retarded-blowback. This new pistol is short-recoil. |
|
Quoted: Grendel P-10 came out in 1988. Top loader / M16 stripper clips: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/130695/IMG_4250_jpeg-3434580.JPG Buddy had one. It ejected 1 or 2 live rounds almost every cycle. Lord but we bashed him over that POS. |
|
Quoted: that's what I though until someone pointed out that the case is basically completely straight (so it would sit in P90 mags without needing a curve), instead of slightly tapered like almost every other round out there. So the surface area exposed to friction in the chamber when extracting is going to be significantly higher, hence the need for the lubrication. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is the case coating really necessary in this application? I thought it was only needed to function in P90 magazines because of the perpendicular orientation. I thought the lubrication was because the P90 is blowback, and the FiveseveN is done kind of retarded-blowback. This new pistol is short-recoil. I am not satisfied with that explanation. The straight-walked case simplifies magazine construction and operation - it didn't complicate it. Oerlikon 20mm ammunition was lubricated because it was a blowback-operated weapon with advanced primer ignition. The cartridge case in any firearm will be plastically strained, but it's particularly severe in blowback firearms. Ammunition lubricated with some sort of wax or grease was pretty common for the early 20th-century autocannons. |
|
Quoted: I like being the guy who gets to find the bugs. I think I do it with all their guns. Quoted: Quoted: I'm not bothered by that just because I expect KT to need some time to work out any bugs. I'll look into buying one in a year or so. I did the fluff and buff I read about in the forums on my P3AT before I even fired it, it was kinda enjoyable... never a malfunction.. |
|
Quoted: I am not satisfied with that explanation. The straight-walked case simplifies magazine construction and operation - it didn't complicate it. Oerlikon 20mm ammunition was lubricated because it was a blowback-operated weapon with advanced primer ignition. The cartridge case in any firearm will be plastically strained, but it's particularly severe in blowback firearms. Ammunition lubricated with some sort of wax or grease was pretty common for the early 20th-century autocannons. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is the case coating really necessary in this application? I thought it was only needed to function in P90 magazines because of the perpendicular orientation. I thought the lubrication was because the P90 is blowback, and the FiveseveN is done kind of retarded-blowback. This new pistol is short-recoil. I am not satisfied with that explanation. The straight-walked case simplifies magazine construction and operation - it didn't complicate it. Oerlikon 20mm ammunition was lubricated because it was a blowback-operated weapon with advanced primer ignition. The cartridge case in any firearm will be plastically strained, but it's particularly severe in blowback firearms. Ammunition lubricated with some sort of wax or grease was pretty common for the early 20th-century autocannons. |
|
Quoted: I thought the lubrication was because the P90 is blowback, and the FiveseveN is done kind of retarded-blowback. This new pistol is short-recoil. Quoted: Quoted: Is the case coating really necessary in this application? I thought it was only needed to function in P90 magazines because of the perpendicular orientation. I thought the lubrication was because the P90 is blowback, and the FiveseveN is done kind of retarded-blowback. This new pistol is short-recoil. The P90 & 57 pistol - along w/ the Rock, Ruger 57, and KelTec PMR30 .22 WMR pistols all share the same basic mechanism. Straight blowback, but the barrel travels with the bolt for a short distance before the case extracts from the chamber, allowing gas pressure to decrease and the case walls to relax off the chamber walls. Much less common in the carbines, where a heavier bolt can simply delay full opening for longer. Smith & KelTec have opted for recoil locked breach operation in their pistols. |
|
Quoted: YouTube notes it took 2 keltec employees to clear a jam at range day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGg9l6r_P4AAll that really implies is that one of them didn't know how to clear a jam. It can even be spun that it jams so infrequently that no one has had to clear a jam yet.
|
|
Quoted: it's not just a matter of the magazine needing the lube (though that is part of the reason for it), the lube is required for proper extraction because the casing isn't tapered. When most cases extract, the slight taper causes the casing to break free of the chamber walls more or less immediately. Without the taper, the casing has to slide against the chamber walls the entire time it is being extracted. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is the case coating really necessary in this application? I thought it was only needed to function in P90 magazines because of the perpendicular orientation. I thought the lubrication was because the P90 is blowback, and the FiveseveN is done kind of retarded-blowback. This new pistol is short-recoil. I am not satisfied with that explanation. The straight-walked case simplifies magazine construction and operation - it didn't complicate it. Oerlikon 20mm ammunition was lubricated because it was a blowback-operated weapon with advanced primer ignition. The cartridge case in any firearm will be plastically strained, but it's particularly severe in blowback firearms. Ammunition lubricated with some sort of wax or grease was pretty common for the early 20th-century autocannons. I agree with you. |
|
Quoted: The P90 & 57 pistol - along w/ the Rock, Ruger 57, and KelTec PMR30 .22 WMR pistols all share the same basic mechanism. Straight blowback, but the barrel travels with the bolt for a short distance before the case extracts from the chamber, allowing gas pressure to decrease and the case walls to relax off the chamber walls. Much less common in the carbines, where a heavier bolt can simply delay full opening for longer. Smith & KelTec have opted for recoil locked breach operation in their pistols. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is the case coating really necessary in this application? I thought it was only needed to function in P90 magazines because of the perpendicular orientation. I thought the lubrication was because the P90 is blowback, and the FiveseveN is done kind of retarded-blowback. This new pistol is short-recoil. The P90 & 57 pistol - along w/ the Rock, Ruger 57, and KelTec PMR30 .22 WMR pistols all share the same basic mechanism. Straight blowback, but the barrel travels with the bolt for a short distance before the case extracts from the chamber, allowing gas pressure to decrease and the case walls to relax off the chamber walls. Much less common in the carbines, where a heavier bolt can simply delay full opening for longer. Smith & KelTec have opted for recoil locked breach operation in their pistols. I used to own an FN FiveseveN. I thought it was done kind of lever-retarded blowback - not unlike a FAMAS. Is my memory bad? I sold it years ago. And isn't the S&W gas-operated, with a rotary-locking barrel? |
|
Quoted: All that really implies is that one of them didn't know how to clear a jam. It can even be spun that it jams so infrequently that no one has had to clear a jam yet. Quoted: Quoted: YouTube notes it took 2 keltec employees to clear a jam at range day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGg9l6r_P4AAll that really implies is that one of them didn't know how to clear a jam. It can even be spun that it jams so infrequently that no one has had to clear a jam yet. |
|
Quoted: I used to own an FN FiveseveN. I thought it was done kind of lever-retarded blowback - not unlike a FAMAS. Is my memory bad? I sold it years ago. And isn't the S&W gas-operated, with a rotary-locking barrel? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is the case coating really necessary in this application? I thought it was only needed to function in P90 magazines because of the perpendicular orientation. I thought the lubrication was because the P90 is blowback, and the FiveseveN is done kind of retarded-blowback. This new pistol is short-recoil. The P90 & 57 pistol - along w/ the Rock, Ruger 57, and KelTec PMR30 .22 WMR pistols all share the same basic mechanism. Straight blowback, but the barrel travels with the bolt for a short distance before the case extracts from the chamber, allowing gas pressure to decrease and the case walls to relax off the chamber walls. Much less common in the carbines, where a heavier bolt can simply delay full opening for longer. Smith & KelTec have opted for recoil locked breach operation in their pistols. I used to own an FN FiveseveN. I thought it was done kind of lever-retarded blowback - not unlike a FAMAS. Is my memory bad? I sold it years ago. And isn't the S&W gas-operated, with a rotary-locking barrel? |