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Posted: 9/25/2019 7:32:52 PM EDT
[#1]
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10 - 15% of a new vehicle's cost goes to labor (read: "employees paychecks" aka. where union dues come from. In 2012, "on top of any discount, each GM car or truck made this year will carry about $1,900 in pension and retiree health care costs" (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a9590/pension-costs-drive-gms-discount-prices/). By 2018, "health care costs of $1,525 built into every vehicle made. Add another $675 per car for pension costs." (https://www.drivingthenation.com/general-motors-a-legacy-of-problems/) Average price of a GM vehicle was $35,974 last year. (Source) 15% of $35,974 = $5,396.10 in UAW labor cost plus $2,200 in pension and healthcare costs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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10%? No. Correct me, please. What percentage of the dollar spent on a UAW produced vehicle goes towards UAW related dues, benefits, or salary disparity vs non-union employees? Dues are taken from employees paychecks, not from the manufacturer. In 2012, "on top of any discount, each GM car or truck made this year will carry about $1,900 in pension and retiree health care costs" (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a9590/pension-costs-drive-gms-discount-prices/). By 2018, "health care costs of $1,525 built into every vehicle made. Add another $675 per car for pension costs." (https://www.drivingthenation.com/general-motors-a-legacy-of-problems/) Average price of a GM vehicle was $35,974 last year. (Source) 15% of $35,974 = $5,396.10 in UAW labor cost plus $2,200 in pension and healthcare costs. |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 7:38:08 PM EDT
[#2]
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It’s been my understanding that union labor made up about 5%, and management makes up the rest of that number, they aren’t union. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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10%? No. Correct me, please. What percentage of the dollar spent on a UAW produced vehicle goes towards UAW related dues, benefits, or salary disparity vs non-union employees? Dues are taken from employees paychecks, not from the manufacturer. In 2012, "on top of any discount, each GM car or truck made this year will carry about $1,900 in pension and retiree health care costs" (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a9590/pension-costs-drive-gms-discount-prices/). By 2018, "health care costs of $1,525 built into every vehicle made. Add another $675 per car for pension costs." (https://www.drivingthenation.com/general-motors-a-legacy-of-problems/) Average price of a GM vehicle was $35,974 last year. (Source) 15% of $35,974 = $5,396.10 in UAW labor cost plus $2,200 in pension and healthcare costs. Are you suggesting that out of the "10 - 15%" of a new vehicle's price that goes to labor, in the case of GM the UAW workers only represent 5% of that figure and the other 95% goes to management? e.g. in the $5,396.10 example figure used above, $269.81 goes to UAW workers and $5,126.30 goes to management? |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 7:39:15 PM EDT
[#3]
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None to the best if my knowledge. Dues are taken from employees paychecks, not from the manufacturer. Dues are like $75 They aren't a drop in the bucket. |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 7:40:24 PM EDT
[#4]
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Before I go pull sources, please clarify your statement. Are you suggesting that out of the "10 - 15%" of a new vehicle's price that goes to labor, in the case of GM the UAW workers only represent 5% of that figure and the other 95% goes to management? e.g. in the $5,396.10 example figure used above, $269.81 goes to UAW workers and $5,126.30 goes to management? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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10%? No. Correct me, please. What percentage of the dollar spent on a UAW produced vehicle goes towards UAW related dues, benefits, or salary disparity vs non-union employees? Dues are taken from employees paychecks, not from the manufacturer. In 2012, "on top of any discount, each GM car or truck made this year will carry about $1,900 in pension and retiree health care costs" (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a9590/pension-costs-drive-gms-discount-prices/). By 2018, "health care costs of $1,525 built into every vehicle made. Add another $675 per car for pension costs." (https://www.drivingthenation.com/general-motors-a-legacy-of-problems/) Average price of a GM vehicle was $35,974 last year. (Source) 15% of $35,974 = $5,396.10 in UAW labor cost plus $2,200 in pension and healthcare costs. Are you suggesting that out of the "10 - 15%" of a new vehicle's price that goes to labor, in the case of GM the UAW workers only represent 5% of that figure and the other 95% goes to management? e.g. in the $5,396.10 example figure used above, $269.81 goes to UAW workers and $5,126.30 goes to management? |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 7:45:04 PM EDT
[#5]
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You dont think that any portion of the amount you pay for a UAW produced vehicle is due to expenses that the UAW workers receive that non-UAW workers do not receive? They average a 30% pay increase over non UAW workers and their benefits are up to 25% better (expense wise). This is outside of other UAW determined necessities such as break periods, extended vacation/illness, positions added due to UAW requests, etc. Dues are like $75 They aren't a drop in the bucket. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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None to the best if my knowledge. Dues are taken from employees paychecks, not from the manufacturer. Dues are like $75 They aren't a drop in the bucket. It’s 2 1/2 hours a month. There are also workers that have chosen to opt out of such dues in part, or completely. Their numbers are pretty small though, unions do their best to discourage that sort of thing. |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 7:45:18 PM EDT
[#6]
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I mean 5% of the total vehicle cost, not 5% of the manufacturing cost. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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10%? No. Correct me, please. What percentage of the dollar spent on a UAW produced vehicle goes towards UAW related dues, benefits, or salary disparity vs non-union employees? Dues are taken from employees paychecks, not from the manufacturer. In 2012, "on top of any discount, each GM car or truck made this year will carry about $1,900 in pension and retiree health care costs" (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a9590/pension-costs-drive-gms-discount-prices/). By 2018, "health care costs of $1,525 built into every vehicle made. Add another $675 per car for pension costs." (https://www.drivingthenation.com/general-motors-a-legacy-of-problems/) Average price of a GM vehicle was $35,974 last year. (Source) 15% of $35,974 = $5,396.10 in UAW labor cost plus $2,200 in pension and healthcare costs. Are you suggesting that out of the "10 - 15%" of a new vehicle's price that goes to labor, in the case of GM the UAW workers only represent 5% of that figure and the other 95% goes to management? e.g. in the $5,396.10 example figure used above, $269.81 goes to UAW workers and $5,126.30 goes to management? "Labor costs per vehicle at GM will drop to $2,350 in 2019" (Source) |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 7:50:41 PM EDT
[#7]
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Do you know much money Gm is probably losing per day? Especially after the first week? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I read today that Ford has tentative agreements on 11 of 20 major issues, FCA is also reporting that they’re making good progress, but didn’t give specifics. Both of those deals are dependent upon the GM contract being approved. They are patterned on the GM contract, so until the GM contract gets the nod, Ford and FCA are in limbo. The union only really has one strike card and they played it. They're going to stay busy, but they're going to maintain pressure on GM to see who blinks first. This is work that requires that production is paused, and has to be done periodically |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 7:54:11 PM EDT
[#8]
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Dues may be $75 for long time employees, but are under $40 for a pretty decent percentage of workers. I’d wager that they’re around $50 for most of the workforce It’s 2 1/2 hours a month. There are also workers that have chosen to opt out of such dues in part, or completely. Their numbers are pretty small though, unions do their best to discourage that sort of thing. |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 7:58:52 PM EDT
[#9]
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In to see how many union haters, have union built vehicles in their driveways. Here’s a list of union built items that union haters can avoid. |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 8:04:11 PM EDT
[#10]
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Exactly. Virtually nothing. Dues aren't an issue here, I pay more for vision insurance than their dues. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dues may be $75 for long time employees, but are under $40 for a pretty decent percentage of workers. I’d wager that they’re around $50 for most of the workforce It’s 2 1/2 hours a month. There are also workers that have chosen to opt out of such dues in part, or completely. Their numbers are pretty small though, unions do their best to discourage that sort of thing. I know I keep bringing up the old guys, but people don’t understand that aside from the ones that are grandfathered in, those days are gone. I’m pretty sure that Toyota is very comparable in pay and benefits to the big three. *if* you take the grandfathered employees out of the equation. They will be leaving in pretty large numbers over the next 3-4 years, and costs should drop significantly. |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 8:06:02 PM EDT
[#11]
I don't have a problem with unions as long as people have the option of not joining one to get a job.
Right to work state employees have great pay and benefits without the tick union sucking money from them for nothing in return. Reminds me of the NRA saying they'll protect gun owners while negotiating ways to screw more money out of us. |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 8:20:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Would you rather buy a vehicle made by Americans that receive a good wage and will stay with the company their whole working career because of that good wage and because of the special training that they receive they are skilled at their job.
Or a vehicle made by the lowest paid person the company can hire who will leave that job in a minutes notice for a new job that pays a little more money and therefore doesn't have the hands on skills to do their job. If the company has a high employee turnover rate the skill set of each employee is lacking. ETA now I am not a fan of the UAW contributing part of a members dues to the democrats, but the employee can opt out of paying that percentage that is given to the democrats. |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 8:33:30 PM EDT
[#13]
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Would you rather buy a vehicle made by Americans that receive a good wage and will stay with the company their whole working career because of that good wage and because of the special training that they receive they are skilled at their job. Or a vehicle made by the lowest paid person the company can hire who will leave that job in a minutes notice for a new job that pays a little more money and therefore doesn't have the hands on skills to do their job. If the company has a high employee turnover rate the skill set of each employee is lacking. ETA now I am not a fan of the UAW contributing part of a members dues to the democrats, but the employee can opt out of paying that percentage that is given to the democrats. |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 9:04:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Hows the strike going? Doesnt seem like there is much if any coverage.
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Posted: 9/25/2019 9:05:55 PM EDT
[#15]
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Would you rather buy a vehicle made by Americans that receive a good wage and will stay with the company their whole working career because of that good wage and because of the special training that they receive they are skilled at their job. Or a vehicle made by the lowest paid person the company can hire who will leave that job in a minutes notice for a new job that pays a little more money and therefore doesn't have the hands on skills to do their job. If the company has a high employee turnover rate the skill set of each employee is lacking. ETA now I am not a fan of the UAW contributing part of a members dues to the democrats, but the employee can opt out of paying that percentage that is given to the democrats. I'd rather send my money overseas to communists that don't get to vote here than give it to aspiring domestic socialists. If I had to choose between giving money to Mao or Lenin instead of to an American that was supported their beliefs here in the United States, I'd have to get help figuring out to write "Mao Zedong" in Chinese on a check. |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 9:08:56 PM EDT
[#16]
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Hows the strike going? Doesnt seem like there is much if any coverage. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 3:56:49 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't really matter, GM is using the time to repair and refit machines, molds, and dies. This is work that requires that production is paused, and has to be done periodically |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 3:59:56 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 9/26/2019 9:18:45 PM EDT
[#19]
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Oh and pertinent to this thread: GM reinstates health care benefits for striking UAW members |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 9:21:32 PM EDT
[#20]
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Oh and pertinent to this thread: GM reinstates health care benefits for striking UAW members |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 9:36:41 PM EDT
[#21]
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That pay is more than competitive in today's labor market. Just like management's pay. Don't like it? Go work somewhere else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wish they would just hold a hiring conference in another city to replace all these greedy bastards Just like management's pay. Don't like it? Go work somewhere else. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 9:38:40 PM EDT
[#22]
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Thats, standard process. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 9:41:47 PM EDT
[#23]
ARFCOM guide to union threads:
1. Anyone that makes reference to "management" is likely a union member 2. Union members support the Democrat party and socialism, whether they realize it or not. 3. Unions have a long history of working with, supporting, and being influenced and led by communists 4. Union members don't like being told that they are communists. The truth hurts. 5. Bolsheviks are Bolsheviks, even if they claim to love freedom and guns. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 9:48:14 PM EDT
[#24]
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ARFCOM guide to union threads: 1. Anyone that makes reference to "management" is likely a union member 2. Union members support the Democrat party and socialism, whether they realize it or not. 3. Unions have a long history of working with, supporting, and being influenced and led by communists 4. Union members don't like being told that they are communists. The truth hurts. 5. Bolsheviks are Bolsheviks, even if they claim to love freedom and guns. You could probably win a couple of them over to our side with a bit less vinegar. Many union members are conservative, so they aren’t beyond reach. Sewing anti-union seeds within would be the most effective way of threatening their power. If you show contempt, they will just respond in kind. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 9:50:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd rather not support Americans that support socialism. I'd rather send my money overseas to communists that don't get to vote here than give it to aspiring domestic socialists. If I had to choose between giving money to Mao or Lenin instead of to an American that was supported their beliefs here in the United States, I'd have to get help figuring out to write "Mao Zedong" in Chinese on a check. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 10:01:09 PM EDT
[#26]
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Deputy’s dashcam? It’s just a woman with a cell phone, and while it does show the guy walking out in front of her, it doesn’t show anything like vandalism. Still, it’s clear that he was trying to intimidate her, Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Story w/video SPRING HILL, TN (WSMV) - A woman made a wrong turn on the highway and ended up in a situation she didn't expect. She claims picketers in front of the Spring Hill General Motors plant blocked her car and that wasn't all. Heather Langley told News4 she was getting off the interstate to visit with some friends before a business meeting in Nashville. She took the wrong exit on Friday and ended up in the middle of the UAW strike. Langley was coming from Birmingham, AL. Cell phone video captured a man walking in front of Langley's car. She said all she wanted to do was turn around and leave the Spring Hill GM plant. "He wanted me to get out of the car and talk with him and I wouldn't do it. So I turned the camera off and called 911," Langley said. During that 911 call, Langley said someone hit the bottom of her windshield causing it to crack. Her daughter with cerebral palsy was in the back seat. She started screaming. "Another man, which I did identify, hit my window with a strike sign and busted it sending glass in the car," Langley said. She now has hundreds of dollars in damage to her car. An incident report from the Maury County Sheriff's Office said a deputy was at the plant. It said he saw pieces of wood fly in the air and heard the crowd saying the car hit someone picketing. "I did nothing to provoke them except for to refuse to get out of my car and speak to them," Langley said. Langley said she still has injuries from that day. "I have scratches on my face from it and then I have it in my neck and then I have glass in my lip and then I have this in my arm from the glass," Langley said. The sheriff's office report also said the deputy reviewed his dash camera footage and it showed the man hit Langley's car with a wooden sign. He was later arrested for vandalism and assault. A judge ordered strikers to not block the entrance to the GM plant, stop cars, or engage in rowdy behavior. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/wsmv.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/50/35039478-de82-11e9-b8ae-a374e7c2ffdb/5d8998d2c53ba.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C675 https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/wsmv.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/21/321efedc-de82-11e9-a370-9b729d75092a/5d8998cde8bc4.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C675 https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/wsmv.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/3d/33d1cebc-de82-11e9-8a05-c71a17860c07/5d8998d0c3fe5.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C675 https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/wsmv.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/40/340fa638-de82-11e9-9ed4-c377713b62e3/5d8998d132c90.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C675 Objectively, it could be true, or maybe or not, but I’d not be surprised if it were. It’s just a woman with a cell phone, and while it does show the guy walking out in front of her, it doesn’t show anything like vandalism. Still, it’s clear that he was trying to intimidate her, |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 10:15:41 PM EDT
[#27]
LOL, ha I just picked up my new insurance card at the union hall today. Oh well the next thing that will happen is management will want me to come back to work before we approve the new contract. They will give me X,Y, and Z and a pathway for the temps to become employees.
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Posted: 9/26/2019 10:23:51 PM EDT
[#28]
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I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase “You’ll catch more flies with honey...” You could probably win a couple of them over to our side with a bit less vinegar. Many union members are conservative, so they aren’t beyond reach. Sewing anti-union seeds within would be the most effective way of threatening their power. If you show contempt, they will just respond in kind. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ARFCOM guide to union threads: 1. Anyone that makes reference to "management" is likely a union member 2. Union members support the Democrat party and socialism, whether they realize it or not. 3. Unions have a long history of working with, supporting, and being influenced and led by communists 4. Union members don't like being told that they are communists. The truth hurts. 5. Bolsheviks are Bolsheviks, even if they claim to love freedom and guns. You could probably win a couple of them over to our side with a bit less vinegar. Many union members are conservative, so they aren’t beyond reach. Sewing anti-union seeds within would be the most effective way of threatening their power. If you show contempt, they will just respond in kind. The difference between you and me is that I realize that no matter what a union member proclaims, their very membership in the union negates any words out of their mouths (or from their keyboards). They use class based terminology like "management" and preach the same flawed message that socialists and communists have for generations. If they want to live in a workers paradise, I'll buy them a ticket and they can move to China, or Cuba, or Venezuela. They love to hate on 'management' (us evil bourgeoisie) and proclaiming how great the workers are (the hard working proletariat). They go on strike and hurt millions of other workers and small businesses, but they don't care so long as they have their 'solidarity' and get the 'fair' deal. I'm not interested in winning them over with honey. I want to see them defeated once and for all. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 10:38:15 PM EDT
[#29]
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I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase “You’ll catch more flies with honey...” You could probably win a couple of them over to our side with a bit less vinegar. Many union members are conservative, so they aren’t beyond reach. Sewing anti-union seeds within would be the most effective way of threatening their power. If you show contempt, they will just respond in kind. They aren't conservative in this neck of the woods. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 10:48:45 PM EDT
[#30]
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I prefer not to make friends with those that provide material support to the enemy. I don't care how "conservative" they proclaim to be. The difference between you and me is that I realize that no matter what a union member proclaims, their very membership in the union negates any words out of their mouths (or from their keyboards). They use class based terminology like "management" and preach the same flawed message that socialists and communists have for generations. If they want to live in a workers paradise, I'll buy them a ticket and they can move to China, or Cuba, or Venezuela. They love to hate on 'management' (us evil bourgeoisie) and proclaiming how great the workers are (the hard working proletariat). They go on strike and hurt millions of other workers and small businesses, but they don't care so long as they have their 'solidarity' and get the 'fair' deal. I'm not interested in winning them over with honey. I want to see them defeated once and for all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ARFCOM guide to union threads: 1. Anyone that makes reference to "management" is likely a union member 2. Union members support the Democrat party and socialism, whether they realize it or not. 3. Unions have a long history of working with, supporting, and being influenced and led by communists 4. Union members don't like being told that they are communists. The truth hurts. 5. Bolsheviks are Bolsheviks, even if they claim to love freedom and guns. You could probably win a couple of them over to our side with a bit less vinegar. Many union members are conservative, so they aren’t beyond reach. Sewing anti-union seeds within would be the most effective way of threatening their power. If you show contempt, they will just respond in kind. The difference between you and me is that I realize that no matter what a union member proclaims, their very membership in the union negates any words out of their mouths (or from their keyboards). They use class based terminology like "management" and preach the same flawed message that socialists and communists have for generations. If they want to live in a workers paradise, I'll buy them a ticket and they can move to China, or Cuba, or Venezuela. They love to hate on 'management' (us evil bourgeoisie) and proclaiming how great the workers are (the hard working proletariat). They go on strike and hurt millions of other workers and small businesses, but they don't care so long as they have their 'solidarity' and get the 'fair' deal. I'm not interested in winning them over with honey. I want to see them defeated once and for all. You can dehumanize them all you want to, but at the end of they day they’re just people, not some Bolshevik mob. Some can be swayed, and some cannot, but it’s worth swaying all you can. If your goal is what you claim, one would think that any way to accomplish that goal would be worthy of consideration. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 10:50:33 PM EDT
[#31]
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I've spent two weeks with lawyers and having meetings with TMs. They aren't conservative in this neck of the woods. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase “You’ll catch more flies with honey...” You could probably win a couple of them over to our side with a bit less vinegar. Many union members are conservative, so they aren’t beyond reach. Sewing anti-union seeds within would be the most effective way of threatening their power. If you show contempt, they will just respond in kind. They aren't conservative in this neck of the woods. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 10:52:38 PM EDT
[#32]
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The union officials aren’t by a long shot, but the average worker has about the same chance of being one as they do in any other profession. asking for a friend... |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 10:58:12 PM EDT
[#33]
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So is somehow who promotes communism a communist? asking for a friend... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The union officials aren’t by a long shot, but the average worker has about the same chance of being one as they do in any other profession. asking for a friend... What I’m saying is that the union leadership absolutely hold communist style beliefs. Many of the regular members do also, but many of them also do not. It’s the same as anywhere else in this country, Commies are everywhere, not just in the unions. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 10:59:03 PM EDT
[#34]
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You’re giving up an entire avenue to defeating them. Half of the states in this country are RTW states, and those people can leave the union. You can dehumanize them all you want to, but at the end of they day they’re just people, not some Bolshevik mob. Some can be swayed, and some cannot, but it’s worth swaying all you can. If your goal is what you claim, one would think that any way to accomplish that goal would be worthy of consideration. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ARFCOM guide to union threads: 1. Anyone that makes reference to "management" is likely a union member 2. Union members support the Democrat party and socialism, whether they realize it or not. 3. Unions have a long history of working with, supporting, and being influenced and led by communists 4. Union members don't like being told that they are communists. The truth hurts. 5. Bolsheviks are Bolsheviks, even if they claim to love freedom and guns. You could probably win a couple of them over to our side with a bit less vinegar. Many union members are conservative, so they aren’t beyond reach. Sewing anti-union seeds within would be the most effective way of threatening their power. If you show contempt, they will just respond in kind. The difference between you and me is that I realize that no matter what a union member proclaims, their very membership in the union negates any words out of their mouths (or from their keyboards). They use class based terminology like "management" and preach the same flawed message that socialists and communists have for generations. If they want to live in a workers paradise, I'll buy them a ticket and they can move to China, or Cuba, or Venezuela. They love to hate on 'management' (us evil bourgeoisie) and proclaiming how great the workers are (the hard working proletariat). They go on strike and hurt millions of other workers and small businesses, but they don't care so long as they have their 'solidarity' and get the 'fair' deal. I'm not interested in winning them over with honey. I want to see them defeated once and for all. You can dehumanize them all you want to, but at the end of they day they’re just people, not some Bolshevik mob. Some can be swayed, and some cannot, but it’s worth swaying all you can. If your goal is what you claim, one would think that any way to accomplish that goal would be worthy of consideration. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 11:02:31 PM EDT
[#35]
I’m non union and always have been. Companies and unions both can go to ridiculous extremes. That said, its hard to sympathize with GM after some of the things they’ve pulled over the past few years. They also gave lots of money to the Democrats when Obama was in office.
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Posted: 9/26/2019 11:04:49 PM EDT
[#36]
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The mob of people on the picket lines harassing innocent folks that are trying to pass by damn sure look like a Bolshevik mob to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ARFCOM guide to union threads: 1. Anyone that makes reference to "management" is likely a union member 2. Union members support the Democrat party and socialism, whether they realize it or not. 3. Unions have a long history of working with, supporting, and being influenced and led by communists 4. Union members don't like being told that they are communists. The truth hurts. 5. Bolsheviks are Bolsheviks, even if they claim to love freedom and guns. You could probably win a couple of them over to our side with a bit less vinegar. Many union members are conservative, so they aren’t beyond reach. Sewing anti-union seeds within would be the most effective way of threatening their power. If you show contempt, they will just respond in kind. The difference between you and me is that I realize that no matter what a union member proclaims, their very membership in the union negates any words out of their mouths (or from their keyboards). They use class based terminology like "management" and preach the same flawed message that socialists and communists have for generations. If they want to live in a workers paradise, I'll buy them a ticket and they can move to China, or Cuba, or Venezuela. They love to hate on 'management' (us evil bourgeoisie) and proclaiming how great the workers are (the hard working proletariat). They go on strike and hurt millions of other workers and small businesses, but they don't care so long as they have their 'solidarity' and get the 'fair' deal. I'm not interested in winning them over with honey. I want to see them defeated once and for all. You can dehumanize them all you want to, but at the end of they day they’re just people, not some Bolshevik mob. Some can be swayed, and some cannot, but it’s worth swaying all you can. If your goal is what you claim, one would think that any way to accomplish that goal would be worthy of consideration. The problem is getting people to speak up, the anti-union people often keep their heads down and mouths shut because they fear the mob. What we need is more people that are willing to stand up, but nobody is going to do that if they think they’ll be standing alone. Division is the unions biggest enemy, and could tear it apart. I think recruitment is a worthwhile goal. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 11:05:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I prefer not to make friends with those that provide material support to the enemy. I don't care how "conservative" they proclaim to be. The difference between you and me is that I realize that no matter what a union member proclaims, their very membership in the union negates any words out of their mouths (or from their keyboards). They use class based terminology like "management" and preach the same flawed message that socialists and communists have for generations. If they want to live in a workers paradise, I'll buy them a ticket and they can move to China, or Cuba, or Venezuela. They love to hate on 'management' (us evil bourgeoisie) and proclaiming how great the workers are (the hard working proletariat). They go on strike and hurt millions of other workers and small businesses, but they don't care so long as they have their 'solidarity' and get the 'fair' deal. I'm not interested in winning them over with honey. I want to see them defeated once and for all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ARFCOM guide to union threads: 1. Anyone that makes reference to "management" is likely a union member 2. Union members support the Democrat party and socialism, whether they realize it or not. 3. Unions have a long history of working with, supporting, and being influenced and led by communists 4. Union members don't like being told that they are communists. The truth hurts. 5. Bolsheviks are Bolsheviks, even if they claim to love freedom and guns. You could probably win a couple of them over to our side with a bit less vinegar. Many union members are conservative, so they aren’t beyond reach. Sewing anti-union seeds within would be the most effective way of threatening their power. If you show contempt, they will just respond in kind. The difference between you and me is that I realize that no matter what a union member proclaims, their very membership in the union negates any words out of their mouths (or from their keyboards). They use class based terminology like "management" and preach the same flawed message that socialists and communists have for generations. If they want to live in a workers paradise, I'll buy them a ticket and they can move to China, or Cuba, or Venezuela. They love to hate on 'management' (us evil bourgeoisie) and proclaiming how great the workers are (the hard working proletariat). They go on strike and hurt millions of other workers and small businesses, but they don't care so long as they have their 'solidarity' and get the 'fair' deal. I'm not interested in winning them over with honey. I want to see them defeated once and for all. Layoffs are a fact of life in the working world, although they usually suck less for union workers. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 11:09:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL no. There are no scabs in GM plants "using the time to repair and refit machines, molds, and dies." At suppliers, maybe. And "that requires that production is paused, and has to be done periodically" needs to be planned ahead with parts ordered. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Doesn't really matter, GM is using the time to repair and refit machines, molds, and dies. This is work that requires that production is paused, and has to be done periodically 
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Posted: 9/26/2019 11:52:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They likely are, but the ones in the back, avoiding all that... those are the ones to target. The problem is getting people to speak up, the anti-union people often keep their heads down and mouths shut because they fear the mob. What we need is more people that are willing to stand up, but nobody is going to do that if they think they’ll be standing alone. Division is the unions biggest enemy, and could tear it apart. I think recruitment is a worthwhile goal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ARFCOM guide to union threads: 1. Anyone that makes reference to "management" is likely a union member 2. Union members support the Democrat party and socialism, whether they realize it or not. 3. Unions have a long history of working with, supporting, and being influenced and led by communists 4. Union members don't like being told that they are communists. The truth hurts. 5. Bolsheviks are Bolsheviks, even if they claim to love freedom and guns. You could probably win a couple of them over to our side with a bit less vinegar. Many union members are conservative, so they aren’t beyond reach. Sewing anti-union seeds within would be the most effective way of threatening their power. If you show contempt, they will just respond in kind. The difference between you and me is that I realize that no matter what a union member proclaims, their very membership in the union negates any words out of their mouths (or from their keyboards). They use class based terminology like "management" and preach the same flawed message that socialists and communists have for generations. If they want to live in a workers paradise, I'll buy them a ticket and they can move to China, or Cuba, or Venezuela. They love to hate on 'management' (us evil bourgeoisie) and proclaiming how great the workers are (the hard working proletariat). They go on strike and hurt millions of other workers and small businesses, but they don't care so long as they have their 'solidarity' and get the 'fair' deal. I'm not interested in winning them over with honey. I want to see them defeated once and for all. You can dehumanize them all you want to, but at the end of they day they’re just people, not some Bolshevik mob. Some can be swayed, and some cannot, but it’s worth swaying all you can. If your goal is what you claim, one would think that any way to accomplish that goal would be worthy of consideration. The problem is getting people to speak up, the anti-union people often keep their heads down and mouths shut because they fear the mob. What we need is more people that are willing to stand up, but nobody is going to do that if they think they’ll be standing alone. Division is the unions biggest enemy, and could tear it apart. I think recruitment is a worthwhile goal. 
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Posted: 9/26/2019 11:56:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Before I go pull sources, please clarify your statement. Are you suggesting that out of the "10 - 15%" of a new vehicle's price that goes to labor, in the case of GM the UAW workers only represent 5% of that figure and the other 95% goes to management? e.g. in the $5,396.10 example figure used above, $269.81 goes to UAW workers and $5,126.30 goes to management? |
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Posted: 9/27/2019 12:00:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ARFCOM guide to union threads: 1. Anyone that makes reference to "management" is likely a union member 2. Union members support the Democrat party and socialism, whether they realize it or not. 3. Unions have a long history of working with, supporting, and being influenced and led by communists 4. Union members don't like being told that they are communists. The truth hurts. 5. Bolsheviks are Bolsheviks, even if they claim to love freedom and guns. 
I know a lot of union workers that work for a paycheck and not a political party. One of them has a Trump 2020 flag on their brodozer. You seem to just be full of hot air and no substance. |
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Posted: 9/27/2019 12:05:01 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know a lot of union workers that work for a paycheck and not a political party. One of them has a Trump 2020 flag on their brodozer. You seem to just be full of hot air and no substance. They lean heavy left. If you are apart of a union, you are funding a leftist candidate somewhere. |
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Posted: 9/27/2019 12:08:25 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know a lot of union workers that work for a paycheck and not a political party. One of them has a Trump 2020 flag on their brodozer. You seem to just be full of hot air and no substance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ARFCOM guide to union threads: 1. Anyone that makes reference to "management" is likely a union member 2. Union members support the Democrat party and socialism, whether they realize it or not. 3. Unions have a long history of working with, supporting, and being influenced and led by communists 4. Union members don't like being told that they are communists. The truth hurts. 5. Bolsheviks are Bolsheviks, even if they claim to love freedom and guns.
I know a lot of union workers that work for a paycheck and not a political party. One of them has a Trump 2020 flag on their brodozer. You seem to just be full of hot air and no substance. Their brodozer may say Trump, but their union membership says "Warren 2020" or "Sanders 2020", and their union is going to endorse the democrat, on behalf of its ~400k active members and ~600k retired members. |
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Posted: 9/27/2019 1:32:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know how the NRA boasts about its 5 million members, and congress critters listen to the NRA because of it? Their brodozer may say Trump, but their union membership says "Warren 2020" or "Sanders 2020", and their union is going to endorse the democrat, on behalf of its ~400k active members and ~600k retired members. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ARFCOM guide to union threads: 1. Anyone that makes reference to "management" is likely a union member 2. Union members support the Democrat party and socialism, whether they realize it or not. 3. Unions have a long history of working with, supporting, and being influenced and led by communists 4. Union members don't like being told that they are communists. The truth hurts. 5. Bolsheviks are Bolsheviks, even if they claim to love freedom and guns.
I know a lot of union workers that work for a paycheck and not a political party. One of them has a Trump 2020 flag on their brodozer. You seem to just be full of hot air and no substance. Their brodozer may say Trump, but their union membership says "Warren 2020" or "Sanders 2020", and their union is going to endorse the democrat, on behalf of its ~400k active members and ~600k retired members. |
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Posted: 9/27/2019 2:49:59 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can dehumanize them all you want to, but at the end of they day they’re just people, not some Bolshevik mob. Some can be swayed, and some cannot, but it’s worth swaying all you can. If your goal is what you claim, one would think that any way to accomplish that goal would be worthy of consideration. Which side are you on?" If your buds want to draw lines like that and then choose the left side, I'm not going to beg them. |
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Posted: 9/27/2019 7:20:31 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What color are the Republicans associated with in regards to political maps? (no not white  )Quote HistoryQuoted:
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they wear red, like communists... ) |
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Posted: 9/27/2019 7:25:18 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can dehumanize them all you want to, but at the end of they day they’re just people, not some Bolshevik mob. Some can be swayed, and some cannot, but it’s worth swaying all you can. If your goal is what you claim, one would think that any way to accomplish that goal would be worthy of consideration. |
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Posted: 9/27/2019 12:51:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
seems to me that when they bust up the windows of a car that made a wrong turn, with a woman and child inside, they're dehumanizing themselves into a Bolshevik mob. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You can dehumanize them all you want to, but at the end of they day they’re just people, not some Bolshevik mob. Some can be swayed, and some cannot, but it’s worth swaying all you can. If your goal is what you claim, one would think that any way to accomplish that goal would be worthy of consideration. |
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Posted: 9/27/2019 1:48:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They do not all participate in that, and do not deserve to be lumped in with them. When a gun owner commits a serious crime, we don’t deserve to be lumped in with them, why would you think this is any different? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You can dehumanize them all you want to, but at the end of they day they’re just people, not some Bolshevik mob. Some can be swayed, and some cannot, but it’s worth swaying all you can. If your goal is what you claim, one would think that any way to accomplish that goal would be worthy of consideration. Good gun owners shoot bad gun owners when they threaten others with guns. If there were any good union members, they'd have stepped up and stopped it. |
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Posted: 9/27/2019 1:56:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know how the NRA boasts about its 5 million members, and congress critters listen to the NRA because of it? Their brodozer may say Trump, but their union membership says "Warren 2020" or "Sanders 2020", and their union is going to endorse the democrat, on behalf of its ~400k active members and ~600k retired members. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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ARFCOM guide to union threads: 1. Anyone that makes reference to "management" is likely a union member 2. Union members support the Democrat party and socialism, whether they realize it or not. 3. Unions have a long history of working with, supporting, and being influenced and led by communists 4. Union members don't like being told that they are communists. The truth hurts. 5. Bolsheviks are Bolsheviks, even if they claim to love freedom and guns.
I know a lot of union workers that work for a paycheck and not a political party. One of them has a Trump 2020 flag on their brodozer. You seem to just be full of hot air and no substance. Their brodozer may say Trump, but their union membership says "Warren 2020" or "Sanders 2020", and their union is going to endorse the democrat, on behalf of its ~400k active members and ~600k retired members. |
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