[ARCHIVED THREAD] - LWRC vs. F&D (Page 10 of 11)
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I bought my first one in 2005... Which I suppose I also how I also effectively purchased, installed, programmed, setup, and proved-out many millions of dollars worth of horizontals while working as a project engineer at the Caterpillar engine plant, thereby allowing them to employ many more people than you do. While you were make target plates... And the link works, always had. Answer the question as to why you "dug up" this otherwise stagnant thread. Quoted:
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Big-boy ? Inadvertently ? Meh, I have 30,000 + posts and you have a hundred-something ... I took the classes, and got Goatboy to sign my certification.  Which tells me you couldn't possibly have the time to actually setup and run a machine, much less program one and design rifles/parts. Thanks for verifying that all you do is sit in front of a computer... while someone else does the real work over there at La"R"ue. This thread was on Page 58 yesterday when you dug it up: http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_1/5_General_Discussion.html&page=58 There's about 150 folks at LT ... and I bought my first CNC in 1983 ... and have about 120 of them new-fangled self-millin' gizmos here now. Just wished I could figure out what all them buttons mean. 
ETA - Link no worky - you need Goatboy's 5-Steps-To-Better-Internettin'. I bought my first one in 2005... Which I suppose I also how I also effectively purchased, installed, programmed, setup, and proved-out many millions of dollars worth of horizontals while working as a project engineer at the Caterpillar engine plant, thereby allowing them to employ many more people than you do. While you were make target plates... And the link works, always had. Answer the question as to why you "dug up" this otherwise stagnant thread. FWIW, you may not be aware that my daughter passed the Texas Bar the very first time she took it - she's a lawyer ... she's our in-house counsel ... her job is to keep me apprised. She does her job well. 
ETA - She is locked on point - reading is fun and mental for her.
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I bought my first one in 2005... Which I suppose is also how I also effectively purchased, installed, programmed, setup, and proved-out many millions of dollars worth of horizontals while working as a project engineer at the Caterpillar engine plant, thereby allowing them to employ many more people than you do. While you were busy make target plates... And the link works, always had. Answer the question as to why you "dug up" this otherwise stagnant thread. Mr Marky-Mark. Quoted:
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Big-boy ? Inadvertently ? Meh, I have 30,000 + posts and you have a hundred-something ... I took the classes, and got Goatboy to sign my certification. Which tells me you couldn't possibly have the time to actually setup and run a machine, much less program one and design rifles/parts. Thanks for verifying that all you do is sit in front of a computer... while someone else does the real work over there at La"R"ue. This thread was on Page 58 yesterday when you dug it up: http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_1/5_General_Discussion.html&page=58 There's about 150 folks at LT ... and I bought my first CNC in 1983 ... and have about 120 of them new-fangled self-millin' gizmos here now. Just wished I could figure out what all them buttons mean.
ETA - Link no worky - you need Goatboy's 5-Steps-To-Better-Internettin'. I bought my first one in 2005... Which I suppose is also how I also effectively purchased, installed, programmed, setup, and proved-out many millions of dollars worth of horizontals while working as a project engineer at the Caterpillar engine plant, thereby allowing them to employ many more people than you do. While you were busy make target plates... And the link works, always had. Answer the question as to why you "dug up" this otherwise stagnant thread. Mr Marky-Mark. Let us know when your suit against Cat for "your" IP rights starts; there are no doubt drawings there with your signature, so jump to it. |
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Hand over fist ... so much so they took the high road and dropped their Shotshow booth, losing all the points they'd accumulated - but not before taking a departing shot at us in the etcetera crowd. 
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So is F&D still making rifles? Hand over fist ... so much so they took the high road and dropped their Shotshow booth, losing all the points they'd accumulated - but not before taking a departing shot at us in the etcetera crowd.
ShotShow 2014 - Jan 1, 2014 Due to our continued dedication to nothing but the completion of rifles that have been on order throughout 2013 and building inventory for 2014, F&D will not be attending ShotShow this year. Perhaps our competitors who are backlogged more than a year should take note! He is nipping at your heels. Just a matter of time before you are in the two spot, micro honing just to keep up. |
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Quoted: This thread was actually backed up on the GD page 58 when you "performed a diligent search, and dug it up" and decided to all of a sudden post on a dead-thread for which you had not otherwise posted on. Why? What made you do such an extensive search for it? Maybe its because of this? http://fd-defense.com/files/LWRC_NDA_Barrel_QD.pdf Oh Schnapp... did I not perform engineering work on that too for LWRC? And are you using this on your rifles today? Hmmm.... Perhaps you should use Google a little more wisely, and then crawl back into your little hole. This is big-boy territory you have "inadvertently" stumbled onto. What I do on a daily basis is far beyond what you could ever dream of (in the machine shop and on the drawing board). So keep up with your decent rifles and making money. I still applaud you for it and wish you the best going forward. Quoted: This thread was actually backed up on the GD page 58 when you "performed a diligent search, and dug it up" and decided to all of a sudden post on a dead-thread for which you had not otherwise posted on. Why? What made you do such an extensive search for it? Maybe its because of this? http://fd-defense.com/files/LWRC_NDA_Barrel_QD.pdf Oh Schnapp... did I not perform engineering work on that too for LWRC? And are you using this on your rifles today? Hmmm.... Perhaps you should use Google a little more wisely, and then crawl back into your little hole. This is big-boy territory you have "inadvertently" stumbled onto. What I do on a daily basis is far beyond what you could ever dream of (in the machine shop and on the drawing board). So keep up with your decent rifles and making money. I still applaud you for it and wish you the best going forward. Quoted: There we go! Now that is a legit question. Here is the answer... There were two agreements signed, one was an NDA for 3 years regarding a QD attached barrel design that I ended up not helping with... thus LWRC never went into production on it. It's basically the same thing Larue now sells with some of his rifles, and may or may not have a patent on? The other NDA/NCA was generally regarding the requirement to keep technical data confidential, and that was for 7 years, which would have expired October 2013. You are correct, the agreements were never executed by LWRC therefore they did not form an obligatory contract... even though I did abide by all the terms. As owner/manager of LWRC, Paul Leitner-Wise recently stated that he never saw those documents and never authorized Jesse Gomez to offer that work to me, nor did he authorize Jesse to sign on his behalf, but that he completely understands why Jesse felt the need to contract the work out (...cough...incompetence..cough...choke). The evidence is not presented to show that a contract existed, but rather that communications regarding the work existed, which was sworn under oath by Jesse Gomez to never have taken place. I just wanted to throw this out there... it's becoming odd how, almost everyone here seems be attacking and questioning the validity of my positions, documents, filings, and contentions... but no one questions anything about LWRCI's (or lack thereof)...Hmmmm... In the other thread you said you didn't help with the QD barrel design. In this thread you are now saying you did. So which is it? You want everyone here to take your side of the story as FACT, yet you can't even keep your side of it straight. |
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F&D Guy...
Your gun looks awesome. Your attitude completely destroys the allure of what otherwise might be a great gun. If I have learned anything over the years in the Internet, it is that when people come to message boards to defend their products it rarely comes out in their favor. Also, you might not want to use the strategy of denigrating your competitors as the firearms community is fairly close knit, and many people own products from many different manufacturers. What other company have you seen that has been successful using such a strategy. Right now I suggest you get down off of you high horse and apologize for this entire thread. Perhaps you should schedule a visit with Mr. LaRue to have a friendly shoot at his place. I'll even be the third party judge (I have a LMT MWS). Maybe we can all shoot each others rifles to see whose is really the best. And then after that, we could also go home happy that we have the freedom to do so in the first place and that it is always a good time. TL;DR Just stop before you destroy any credibility you have left. |
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^ ^^^ ^
Gibsonn, It's tough to keep up with ... but I got somebody doing the La"R"ue work for me. 
ETA - Can't ask him, he's logged off and likely back at his workbench doing his full-time secret-squirrel high-production micro-honing. So can anybody make the 58 page link he posted above work ? Perhaps I need goatboy's remedial course. 
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Quoted: ^ ^^^ ^ Gibsonn, It's tough to keep up with ... but I got somebody doing the La"R"ue work for me. ETA - Can anybody make the 58 page link he posted above work ? Perhaps I need goatboy's remedial course. Oh I believe it. I have no idea what he is talking about with the link. It takes me to page 58 of the 100 GD threads currently available. |
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F&D Guy... Your gun looks awesome. Your attitude completely destroys the allure of what otherwise might be a great gun. If I have learned anything over the years in the Internet, it is that when people come to message boards to defend their products it rarely comes out in their favor. Also, you might not want to use the strategy of denigrating your competitors as the firearms community is fairly close knit, and many people own products from many different manufacturers. What other company have you seen that has been successful using such a strategy. Right now I suggest you get down off of you high horse and apologize for this entire thread. Perhaps you should schedule a visit with Mr. LaRue to have a friendly shoot at his place. I'll even be the third party judge (I have a LMT MWS). Maybe we can all shoot each others rifles to see whose is really the best. And then after that, we could also go home happy that we have the freedom to do so in the first place and that it is always a good time. TL;DR Just stop before you destroy any credibility you have left. What did I say? Don't interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. |
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Oh I believe it. I have no idea what he is talking about with the link. It takes me to page 58 of the 100 GD threads currently available. Quoted:
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^ ^^^ ^ Gibsonn, It's tough to keep up with ... but I got somebody doing the La"R"ue work for me.
ETA - Can anybody make the 58 page link he posted above work ? Perhaps I need goatboy's remedial course. Oh I believe it. I have no idea what he is talking about with the link. It takes me to page 58 of the 100 GD threads currently available. I think he mans this now 10 page thread was on page 58 of General Discussion when someone brought it to page 1. |
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Why dont you tell everyone how you chickened out on my MOA challenge to you and your beloved REPR. After I offered to meet you in your hometown in Georgia. Low. Oh so low. Quoted:
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Question of the year: is LWRCI the same as LWRC? Boring... You bore me. Post tit pics or something. You've been as informative as a sack full of dog shit smooshed in an Ann Landers column Why dont you tell everyone how you chickened out on my MOA challenge to you and your beloved REPR. After I offered to meet you in your hometown in Georgia. Low. Oh so low. Is your challenge open to anyone? |
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In what world does the burden of proof shift to someone who has made no allegations? Is that the same alternate universe where saying "FACT!" after an allegation makes it hard evidence? Am I actually affiliated with LWRC, and therefore act on their behalf in this phantom alternate timeline? In the reality to which you seem to be tuned, is a halberd the ultimate home defense weapon, well beyond carbines and shotguns? Your statements are just getting more and more bizarre. 
Don't be hatin' on my halberd, bud. I'm working on a rail mount for it and if you keep this up, you won't get one. |
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Don't be hatin' on my halberd, bud. I'm working on a rail mount for it and if you keep this up, you won't get one. Quoted:
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In what world does the burden of proof shift to someone who has made no allegations? Is that the same alternate universe where saying "FACT!" after an allegation makes it hard evidence? Am I actually affiliated with LWRC, and therefore act on their behalf in this phantom alternate timeline? In the reality to which you seem to be tuned, is a halberd the ultimate home defense weapon, well beyond carbines and shotguns? Your statements are just getting more and more bizarre.
Don't be hatin' on my halberd, bud. I'm working on a rail mount for it and if you keep this up, you won't get one. You making this mount on the one CNC you have? Also how long till you fill the back orders? |
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This is freaking hilarious. Two loud mouth egomaniacal morons going at it telling everyone else they need their heads examined. Deleted - that was too good for a Shred Head 
ETA - I am curious how you've made it from 2004 all the way to here ... is this some sort of internet mid-life crisis for you ? Go hit the report button on yourself. 
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He's not my enemy, Sun Tzu. I'm trying to help the poor bastard out because I feel sorry for him and the hole he's dug himself.Quoted:
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What did I say? Don't interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. He's not my enemy, Sun Tzu. I'm trying to help the poor bastard out because I feel sorry for him and the hole he's dug himself.No. He is an egotistical, psychotic, slandering, bumbling, possible liar, exaggerator who deserves no pity. |
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I says to Mrs. L, "Well, dear, looks as if today's internemesis hightailed it when I pointed out our daughter was a big time trial lawyer." Her reply - " Did he puff smoke ?" It's "pop smoke", but I knew what she meant.
Nah, he'll be back with some sort of pronouncement along the lines of: "Nope, didn't abandon the thread, just went down to the CNC shop where I did things no one else in the industry is doing, drank some $500-a-glass scotch, machined some Klein vases from Inconel, rolled around in my half billion dollar settlement from whatever thing before, autographed some contradictory versions of NDA documents from 2006, and then made a micro-lapped 4150 splint to help with the sprained arm I got from patting myself on the back. Now I'm off to my homemade time machine to go back to whever I used to hide in the bushes outside Mark Larue's house with binoculars. I'll be back in time to beat my 2012 record of almost one F&D rifle shipped per week." |
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Quoted: Deleted - that was too good for a Shred Head ETA - I am curious how you've made it from 2004 all the way to here ... is this some sort of internet mid-life crisis for you ? Go hit the report button on yourself. Quoted: Quoted: This is freaking hilarious. Two loud mouth egomaniacal morons going at it telling everyone else they need their heads examined. Deleted - that was too good for a Shred Head ETA - I am curious how you've made it from 2004 all the way to here ... is this some sort of internet mid-life crisis for you ? Go hit the report button on yourself. I knew your ego couldn't let that go. |
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This thread is blowing my mind.
Mark (love and trust your proven products, big fan and proud to say it) - I think this gentleman is his own worst enemy and it's probably fair to say he has driven any possible business from anyone on this site away. Your products speak for themselves. IMHO you don't have to mess around with this here... c_hall - I just don't get it. I got nuthin. Can't understand it. Just
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<snip> I knew your ego couldn't let that go.
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This is freaking hilarious. Two loud mouth egomaniacal morons going at it telling everyone else they need their heads examined. <snip> I knew your ego couldn't let that go.
"Since 2004, I been callin' lots more pots black than you can count " - MikeS369
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F&D Guy... Your gun looks awesome. Your attitude completely destroys the allure of what otherwise might be a great gun. If I have learned anything over the years in the Internet, it is that when people come to message boards to defend their products it rarely comes out in their favor. Also, you might not want to use the strategy of denigrating your competitors as the firearms community is fairly close knit, and many people own products from many different manufacturers. What other company have you seen that has been successful using such a strategy. Right now I suggest you get down off of you high horse and apologize for this entire thread. Perhaps you should schedule a visit with Mr. LaRue to have a friendly shoot at his place. I'll even be the third party judge (I have a LMT MWS). Maybe we can all shoot each others rifles to see whose is really the best. And then after that, we could also go home happy that we have the freedom to do so in the first place and that it is always a good time. TL;DR Just stop before you destroy any credibility you have left. Pretty much. I think a way better attitude to have would have been, "Ehh, involved in a lawsuit because of a couple of disagreements. Don't want to discuss it. As far as rifles, here's why I think my rifle is pretty good...." Honestly, there's enough interest in the AR platform for everyone that wants to get a good product on the market to get fat and happy. This entire thing just soured me to any idea of ever owning an F&D anything, even if they were actually being made. |
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I can't say one way or another how Mr. Hall's rifles shoot, might be the most accurate AR ever made, but I can speak to the fact that he's never missed his foot, so we know how accurate his mouth is.
Every thread, everywhere, he's done nothing but turn people away. All he ever had to do was to say he has some disagreements legally with LWRC and feels sure he will be the victor in court. So far as his rifles, all he had to do is say , "Hey, I think I'm building one of, if not the most accurate rifles available today at any cost. I know the standards for accuracy in the AR world are Larue, Georgia Precision, and a few others , and I'd like to see where I stand, so I'm inviting anyone that has these, including Mark Larue, the guys at GAP, to come out for free beer and BBQ, and to see who comes out on top." People would be flooding him with orders if he won, tied, or got real close. Negativity doesn't sell. Talking crap about the quality of competitors when they're well known for not being crap, makes your product look worse as well, since you're lowering the value of the class. Talk well of your competitors, be honest, say they're great, but point out the features and benefits that make yours better. To say you're a lot better than junk isn't saying much, but to say you're a little better than the best, is building value in your product. |
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I can't say one way or another how Mr. Hall's rifles shoot, might be the most accurate AR ever made, but I can speak to the fact that he's never missed his foot, so we know how accurate his mouth is. Every thread, everywhere, he's done nothing but turn people away. All he ever had to do was to say he has some disagreements legally with LWRC and feels sure he will be the victor in court. So far as his rifles, all he had to do is say , "Hey, I think I'm building one of, if not the most accurate rifles available today at any cost. I know the standards for accuracy in the AR world are Larue, Georgia Precision, and a few others , and I'd like to see where I stand, so I'm inviting anyone that has these, including Mark Larue, the guys at GAP, to come out for free beer and BBQ, and to see who comes out on top." People would be flooding him with orders if he won, tied, or got real close. Negativity doesn't sell. Talking crap about the quality of competitors when they're well known for not being crap, makes your product look worse as well, since you're lowering the value of the class. Talk well of your competitors, be honest, say they're great, but point out the features and benefits that make yours better. To say you're a lot better than junk isn't saying much, but to say you're a little better than the best, is building value in your product. "RC51_Texas " seems to have beat the 20 - 40 % odds and got lucky enough to make his shoot.
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Dangit man! I get busy at work and miss Corky Hall going super clownshoes. Rediculous........ I bet 'ol Corky is down in his Bat-Cave drawing up blueprints and legal documents against LaRue as we speak. He's gonna use up a LOT of crayons this week.
Let's have a pole. Who has heard of F&D? Who has heard of LaRue? That's what I was thinking. Anyhoo, thanks for the top notch products Mark and the Dillo Dust is pretty good also. |
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Dangit man! I get busy at work and miss Corky Hall going super clownshoes. Rediculous........ I bet 'ol Corky is down in his Bat-Cave drawing up blueprints and legal documents against LaRue as we speak. He's gonna use up a LOT of crayons this week. Let's have a pole. Who has heard of F&D? Who has heard of LaRue? That's what I was thinking. Anyhoo, thanks for the top notch products Mark and the Dillo Dust is pretty good also. Done |
| Come on Corby, what happened to all the smack talking? .... Sounds like Mark is up to the task to call you out and you disappear? You kept saying that you wished LWRC would reply to your claims, I now wonder if they had that you might have disappeared then too, just like you have with Mark. I guess if you can't run with the big dogs, you gotta stay on the porch and piss with the puppies. |
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I figure the best way to settle the Larue F&D dispute is to get the two on the range with an off the rack rifle and see who shoots the best groups.
The Loser has to do something demeaning and pay the winner an agreed upon sum of money. Video taped and put on youtube for all of our amusement ofcourse. |
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I figure the best way to settle the Larue F&D dispute is to get the two on the range with an off the rack rifle and see who shoots the best groups. The Loser has to do something demeaning and pay the winner an agreed upon sum of money. Video taped and put on youtube for all of our amusement of course. Dispute ? There ain't no dispute ... I like a good thread just as much as the rest of ya. 
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Dispute ? There ain't no dispute ... I like a good thread just as much as the rest of ya.
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I figure the best way to settle the Larue F&D dispute is to get the two on the range with an off the rack rifle and see who shoots the best groups. The Loser has to do something demeaning and pay the winner an agreed upon sum of money. Video taped and put on youtube for all of our amusement of course. Dispute ? There ain't no dispute ... I like a good thread just as much as the rest of ya.
I am atleast 20% to 40% sure that this appeal to his ego will get him out of the woodwork and back entertaining us.
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I am back from the end of the internet but can't find proof-of-life of the 0.3000" groups.
Sure that I was looking in the wrong place, I called up the inventor of the internet and asked what I was doing wrong. Vice President Gore said my method looked sound, but asked that I go ahead and log off as the internet was a little slow at his house and outside it looked like another blizzard was rolling in and he was trying to get change his flights to the Climate Conference. I'll keep searching, maybe I missed something, maybe it's in the 1 MOA Challenge thread ... 
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Did his own legal-team send him a cease-and-desist letter? Hall has been representing himself. He'll tell you about the fine job he does, too. Yet, he has no clue about intellectual property laws, not that anyone can detect anyway.` LWRCI's attorneys probably have a hard time restraining themselves from drawing little fishes in barrels on their note pads. |
| I think the poll is a good indication of the relevance of F&D. He touts his rifles as if they have been on the market for years but I never head of them until this came up. That should tell you something aside from the claims he has been making. I think hall has ran off with his tail between his legs. |
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Hall has been representing himself. He'll tell you about the fine job he does, too. Yet, he has no clue about intellectual property laws, not that anyone can detect anyway.` LWRCI's attorneys probably have a hard time restraining themselves from drawing little fishes in barrels on their note pads. Quoted:
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Did his own legal-team send him a cease-and-desist letter? Hall has been representing himself. He'll tell you about the fine job he does, too. Yet, he has no clue about intellectual property laws, not that anyone can detect anyway.` LWRCI's attorneys probably have a hard time restraining themselves from drawing little fishes in barrels on their note pads. Wait, people still represent themselves in court? And think they can win? 
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My last card to play is the fact that I build the nicest, highest quality, most accurate piston AR's in the industry, Quoted:
My last card to play is the fact that I build the nicest, highest quality, most accurate piston AR's in the industry, It is interesting that when someone asks you a tough question about your products you quickly pull the "I'd love to answer but I'm prohibited from promoting my products here" card. Yet, you continue to make this subjective promotional claim about your products. ETA: Here's another example of you not promoting your products: Quoted:
Name one. There is not a higher quality or more intensely processed action in the entire industry. |
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Can anybody find and link that thread F&D used to debutante their (his) wares where he proclaimed " ... because of blah, blah, blah, WE WILL SURELY DOMINATE !!!"  Are you blind, old man? <<<<<<<<<< Its over there. >>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<< He went, that-a-ways! >>>>>>>>>>
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