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Posted: 4/18/2022 10:34:35 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Were any of this krewe charged w/ impersonating a LEO? I don't know. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 10:40:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys wear the clothes very well. This is like opposite land. I have a hard time y'all are here on this forum, of all places, apparently thinking you're actually defending / helping / making a point in the furtherance of freedom, state's authority over federal, and minimum federal gov. In this thread we have: pearl clutching sacred cattle gatekeeping Petite tyranny. hidebound-ism and whatever the word is when a bureaucrat rifles through the book finding any reason under to sun to inflict his will upon others. They were fake cops engaged in a fraud and scam. Again they were not even legal by NM standards. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 10:41:25 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're conflating the two. "Being a cop" is something one does. Carrying creds for 50 state carry is paperwork one possesses. As previously stated it SHOULD be that easy to get whatever creds validate one for carry under LEOSA. You guys should be finding any reason under the sun and making it cake. But... nope. Protestations of being for "constitutional carry" carry little weight when condemnations of another department's attempt to backdoor it in abound. A person is either qualified or not. They were not. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 10:42:58 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're conflating the two. "Being a cop" is something one does. Carrying creds for 50 state carry is paperwork one possesses. As previously stated it SHOULD be that easy to get whatever creds validate one for carry under LEOSA. You guys should be finding any reason under the sun and making it cake. But... nope. Protestations of being for "constitutional carry" carry little weight when condemnations of another department's attempt to backdoor it in abound. That doesn’t even make sense. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 10:44:29 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they were real officers, they'd know. They were not. They were scammers paying to play for their own benefit without any side benefit of labor to the community. Each state might have it's own standard of training but those standards are similar. Training on laws, use of force, investigation, personal interactions, those sorts of things that real cops do. As Bama said, any one of those people could have applied as a reserve in their home state, gone through their state's police academy and gotten legitimate credentials, with the proper knowledge to use them. They didn't do that. They paid to be perceived as something they were not. I know how to brush my teeth, therefore I should be considered a dentist and call myself one whenever I see some advantage in doing so. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Agreed they weren't legal by state standards, & the town failed at certifying their officers. That doesn't make an individual reservist a fraud or an impersonator if he was told he was a legit officer, given a badge, and met the reserve duties of the program as it was outlined to him. At least some of the reservists did patrols in the town. The town/police department was running an illegal scheme for cash - that in itself may be a fraud, that doesn't make all the reservists frauds or impersonators. You have to demonstrate the individual officer knew that state laws were being violated - I certainly pay no attention to how other states certify their peace officers and I can certainly see some town figuring out some deputization scheme to raise money & gain manpower. NM has always seemed a bit backwards to me, how did the individual officers know it wasn't legal? If they were real officers, they'd know. They were not. They were scammers paying to play for their own benefit without any side benefit of labor to the community. Each state might have it's own standard of training but those standards are similar. Training on laws, use of force, investigation, personal interactions, those sorts of things that real cops do. As Bama said, any one of those people could have applied as a reserve in their home state, gone through their state's police academy and gotten legitimate credentials, with the proper knowledge to use them. They didn't do that. They paid to be perceived as something they were not. I know how to brush my teeth, therefore I should be considered a dentist and call myself one whenever I see some advantage in doing so. More like you know how to brush your teeth, therefore you are allowed to carry a toothbrush in NYS. At least that is the most likely reason these guys bought badges. Any trying to play cop is ridiculous of course, but most of these guys just wanted their gun rights across the nation. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 10:50:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were fake cops engaged in a fraud and scam. Again they were not even legal by NM standards. You keep repeating this... but you're not making the point you think you're making. At one time with another AWB looming, you posted a thread saying you would not comply. You should be "not complying" by helping your department find the quickest / easiest / simplest way to assist citizenry into 50 state carry under LEOSA as well. You should be all about loopholing the hell out of it. But instead you're gatekeeping and being that bureaucrat i mentioned. Because for whatever reason this is one of your sacred cows. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 10:52:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is it impersonating a police officer if an agency is willing to send you out on patrol as a working police officer? Walking into a Wendy's and flashing your CCW badge to get the discount - that's impersonating a police officer. Taking the offer of LEOSA creds and actually patrolling the town a few times a year, that's an agency taking a huge risk w/ undertrained cops. I don't think the thin blue line quite understand how much the rest of us envy your LEOSA privilege, and how much you are resented for it. I could become a reserve officer - 6 months of full time training @ my local community college, then a good bit of street work to get past my apprenticeship. I don't have that kind of time, and that much training shouldn't be needed for me to carry a handgun in California or NY, not to mention the continuing reserve commitment. I don't need to know how to respond to calls, kick in doors, or wrestle suspects to the ground & cuff them to understand the laws on lethal force in the state I happen to be in, and to actually shoot a mugger, rapist, burglar, carjacker, or murderer in the act. So good on our fellow ARFCOMers for finding temporary LEOSA creds, and I hope the free states can come up w/ some limited Reservist police category that satisfies the Federal LEOSA requirements that doesn't take 3-9 months of full-time training. Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Right now there is a shortage of qualified police officers pretty much everywhere. Probably the easiest time to get hired in the last 30-years. Anyone genuinely interested in being a police officer, and not just pretending to be one for personal gain, should apply now. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 10:53:31 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where these guys flashing LEO certs and trying to get some other benefit out of their status? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it impersonating a police officer if an agency is willing to send you out on patrol as a working police officer? Walking into a Wendy's and flashing your CCW badge to get the discount - that's impersonating a police officer. Taking the offer of LEOSA creds and actually patrolling the town a few times a year, that's an agency taking a huge risk w/ undertrained cops. I don't think the thin blue line quite understand how much the rest of us envy your LEOSA privilege, and how much you are resented for it. I could become a reserve officer - 6 months of full time training @ my local community college, then a good bit of street work to get past my apprenticeship. I don't have that kind of time, and that much training shouldn't be needed for me to carry a handgun in California or NY, not to mention the continuing reserve commitment. I don't need to know how to respond to calls, kick in doors, or wrestle suspects to the ground & cuff them to understand the laws on lethal force in the state I happen to be in, and to actually shoot a mugger, rapist, burglar, carjacker, or murderer in the act. So good on our fellow ARFCOMers for finding temporary LEOSA creds, and I hope the free states can come up w/ some limited Reservist police category that satisfies the Federal LEOSA requirements that doesn't take 3-9 months of full-time training. Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Where these guys flashing LEO certs and trying to get some other benefit out of their status? Yes. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 10:54:50 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right now there is a shortage of qualified police officers pretty much everywhere. Probably the easiest time to get hired in the last 30-years. Anyone genuinely interested in being a police officer, and not just pretending to be one for personal gain, should apply now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it impersonating a police officer if an agency is willing to send you out on patrol as a working police officer? Walking into a Wendy's and flashing your CCW badge to get the discount - that's impersonating a police officer. Taking the offer of LEOSA creds and actually patrolling the town a few times a year, that's an agency taking a huge risk w/ undertrained cops. I don't think the thin blue line quite understand how much the rest of us envy your LEOSA privilege, and how much you are resented for it. I could become a reserve officer - 6 months of full time training @ my local community college, then a good bit of street work to get past my apprenticeship. I don't have that kind of time, and that much training shouldn't be needed for me to carry a handgun in California or NY, not to mention the continuing reserve commitment. I don't need to know how to respond to calls, kick in doors, or wrestle suspects to the ground & cuff them to understand the laws on lethal force in the state I happen to be in, and to actually shoot a mugger, rapist, burglar, carjacker, or murderer in the act. So good on our fellow ARFCOMers for finding temporary LEOSA creds, and I hope the free states can come up w/ some limited Reservist police category that satisfies the Federal LEOSA requirements that doesn't take 3-9 months of full-time training. Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Right now there is a shortage of qualified police officers pretty much everywhere. Probably the easiest time to get hired in the last 30-years. Anyone genuinely interested in being a police officer, and not just pretending to be one for personal gain, should apply now. They didn’t want to be cops. They just wanted 50 state gun rights, which we all should have. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:03:41 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You keep repeating this... but you're not making the point you think you're making. At one time with another AWB looming, you posted a thread saying you would not comply. You should be "not complying" by helping your department find the quickest / easiest / simplest way to assist citizenry into 50 state carry under LEOSA as well. You should be all about loopholing the hell out of it. But instead you're gatekeeping and being that bureaucrat i mentioned. Because for whatever reason this is one of your sacred cows. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They were fake cops engaged in a fraud and scam. Again they were not even legal by NM standards. You keep repeating this... but you're not making the point you think you're making. At one time with another AWB looming, you posted a thread saying you would not comply. You should be "not complying" by helping your department find the quickest / easiest / simplest way to assist citizenry into 50 state carry under LEOSA as well. You should be all about loopholing the hell out of it. But instead you're gatekeeping and being that bureaucrat i mentioned. Because for whatever reason this is one of your sacred cows. Is it okay for people to impersonate police officers in your world? These guys were either intelligent successful grown men who knowingly entered a criminal fraud conspiracy or complete idiots easily fooled by a small time cop. which is more likely? |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:05:08 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You keep repeating this... but you're not making the point you think you're making. At one time with another AWB looming, you posted a thread saying you would not comply. You should be "not complying" by helping your department find the quickest / easiest / simplest way to assist citizenry into 50 state carry under LEOSA as well. You should be all about loopholing the hell out of it. But instead you're gatekeeping and being that bureaucrat i mentioned. Because for whatever reason this is one of your sacred cows. My opposition to a future AWB doesn't have anything to do with LEOSA Want to get LEOSA in AL? Here you go. Our Reserve Academy is open to all reserve/auxiliary officers in the State of Alabama. The Reserve Academy consists of the 520 hour APOSTC curriculum and classes are held on weekends (usually every other Saturday and Sunday). It takes one year to complete this training and a recruit can only miss 24 hours of training. Who Is a Qualified Law Enforcement Officer (QLEO)? LEOSA/HR 218 applies to employees of governmental agencies who: Are authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, prosecution of or the incarceration of any person for any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest or apprehension under 10 U.S. Code § 807, (article 7(b) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice); Are authorized by the agency to carry a firearm; Are not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency which could result in suspension or loss of police powers; Meet standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm; Are not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and Are not prohibited by federal law from receiving a firearm. It is not enough to be a QLEO, see the photographic identification & firearms qualification section below. https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/federal-ccw-law/leosa-hr-218/ A person is either qualified or not. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:06:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They didn’t want to be cops. They just wanted 50 state gun rights, which we all should have. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it impersonating a police officer if an agency is willing to send you out on patrol as a working police officer? Walking into a Wendy's and flashing your CCW badge to get the discount - that's impersonating a police officer. Taking the offer of LEOSA creds and actually patrolling the town a few times a year, that's an agency taking a huge risk w/ undertrained cops. I don't think the thin blue line quite understand how much the rest of us envy your LEOSA privilege, and how much you are resented for it. I could become a reserve officer - 6 months of full time training @ my local community college, then a good bit of street work to get past my apprenticeship. I don't have that kind of time, and that much training shouldn't be needed for me to carry a handgun in California or NY, not to mention the continuing reserve commitment. I don't need to know how to respond to calls, kick in doors, or wrestle suspects to the ground & cuff them to understand the laws on lethal force in the state I happen to be in, and to actually shoot a mugger, rapist, burglar, carjacker, or murderer in the act. So good on our fellow ARFCOMers for finding temporary LEOSA creds, and I hope the free states can come up w/ some limited Reservist police category that satisfies the Federal LEOSA requirements that doesn't take 3-9 months of full-time training. Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Right now there is a shortage of qualified police officers pretty much everywhere. Probably the easiest time to get hired in the last 30-years. Anyone genuinely interested in being a police officer, and not just pretending to be one for personal gain, should apply now. They didn’t want to be cops. They just wanted 50 state gun rights, which we all should have. And to provide cover for drug smuggling, to seek “professional courtesy” when they massively fuck up, to play cop on drug task forces, to drum up business for their training/consulting small businesses, to obtain contract work they know they are unqualified for… The billionaire Koch family employed at least 13 bodyguards with Lake Arthur badges. $$$ |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:17:22 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And to provide cover for drug smuggling, to seek “professional courtesy” when they massively fuck up, to play cop on drug task forces, to drum up business for their training/consulting small businesses, to obtain contract work they know they are unqualified for… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it impersonating a police officer if an agency is willing to send you out on patrol as a working police officer? Walking into a Wendy's and flashing your CCW badge to get the discount - that's impersonating a police officer. Taking the offer of LEOSA creds and actually patrolling the town a few times a year, that's an agency taking a huge risk w/ undertrained cops. I don't think the thin blue line quite understand how much the rest of us envy your LEOSA privilege, and how much you are resented for it. I could become a reserve officer - 6 months of full time training @ my local community college, then a good bit of street work to get past my apprenticeship. I don't have that kind of time, and that much training shouldn't be needed for me to carry a handgun in California or NY, not to mention the continuing reserve commitment. I don't need to know how to respond to calls, kick in doors, or wrestle suspects to the ground & cuff them to understand the laws on lethal force in the state I happen to be in, and to actually shoot a mugger, rapist, burglar, carjacker, or murderer in the act. So good on our fellow ARFCOMers for finding temporary LEOSA creds, and I hope the free states can come up w/ some limited Reservist police category that satisfies the Federal LEOSA requirements that doesn't take 3-9 months of full-time training. Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Right now there is a shortage of qualified police officers pretty much everywhere. Probably the easiest time to get hired in the last 30-years. Anyone genuinely interested in being a police officer, and not just pretending to be one for personal gain, should apply now. They didn’t want to be cops. They just wanted 50 state gun rights, which we all should have. And to provide cover for drug smuggling, to seek “professional courtesy” when they massively fuck up, to play cop on drug task forces, to drum up business for their training/consulting small businesses, to obtain contract work they know they are unqualified for… Out of any group of 400 guys you will find some criminals, even police departments. This is the predicted result of LEOSA. Anyone that was paying attention knew it would be a backdoor for some to get a 50 state carry permit. I personally have no problems with cops carrying out of state in places like NYS but I also think I should have the same courtesy. I am not going to shit on those that did this. The other criminal acts by a small minority is another matter altogether. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:21:33 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is like opposite land…In this thread we have:pearl clutching sacred cattle gatekeeping Petite tyranny. hidebound-ism … yep. And equally opposite-clown world, everyone in this thread is believing —without question— an Anti-Trump hit piece from liberal journalisism sources. But these posters must have the whole story without any flavoring because we all know the media is unbiased when coming after guns and Trump campaign folks. ?? Seeing posters that have zero personal knowledge of the program, people, and the area make definitive statements on the volunteers mindsets, the town’s attitude towards the program, what the officers did or didn’t do… it’s like watching instant Covid-expert soccermoms hold court on Facebook. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:22:27 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it okay for people to impersonate police officers in your world? You're conflating an action with the possession of a piece of paper. Someone possessing a piece of paper does not pick my pocket nor break my leg. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:24:09 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My opposition to a future AWB doesn't have anything to do with LEOSA Want to get LEOSA in AL? Here you go. Our Reserve Academy is open to all reserve/auxiliary officers in the State of Alabama. The Reserve Academy consists of the 520 hour APOSTC curriculum and classes are held on weekends (usually every other Saturday and Sunday). It takes one year to complete this training and a recruit can only miss 24 hours of training. Who Is a Qualified Law Enforcement Officer (QLEO)? LEOSA/HR 218 applies to employees of governmental agencies who: Are authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, prosecution of or the incarceration of any person for any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest or apprehension under 10 U.S. Code § 807, (article 7(b) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice); Are authorized by the agency to carry a firearm; Are not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency which could result in suspension or loss of police powers; Meet standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm; Are not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and Are not prohibited by federal law from receiving a firearm. It is not enough to be a QLEO, see the photographic identification & firearms qualification section below. https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/federal-ccw-law/leosa-hr-218/ A person is either qualified or not. Gatekeeping because this is your sacred cow. I honestly don't know why you bother to post in these threads. Your opinions are so well known and predictable that most of us could write your posts for you. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:26:01 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're conflating an action with the possession of a piece of paper. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is it okay for people to impersonate police officers in your world? You're conflating an action with the possession of a piece of paper. There are multiple examples of the “reserves” representing themselves as actual police officers. Did all 400 of them do so? Unknown. Did many of them do so? Absolutely |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:26:49 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Out of any group of 400 guys you will find some criminals, even police departments. This is the predicted result of LEOSA. Anyone that was paying attention knew it would be a backdoor for some to get a 50 state carry permit. I personally have no problems with cops carrying out of state in places like NYS but I also think I should have the same courtesy. I am not going to shit on those that did this. The other criminal acts by a small minority is another matter altogether. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it impersonating a police officer if an agency is willing to send you out on patrol as a working police officer? Walking into a Wendy's and flashing your CCW badge to get the discount - that's impersonating a police officer. Taking the offer of LEOSA creds and actually patrolling the town a few times a year, that's an agency taking a huge risk w/ undertrained cops. I don't think the thin blue line quite understand how much the rest of us envy your LEOSA privilege, and how much you are resented for it. I could become a reserve officer - 6 months of full time training @ my local community college, then a good bit of street work to get past my apprenticeship. I don't have that kind of time, and that much training shouldn't be needed for me to carry a handgun in California or NY, not to mention the continuing reserve commitment. I don't need to know how to respond to calls, kick in doors, or wrestle suspects to the ground & cuff them to understand the laws on lethal force in the state I happen to be in, and to actually shoot a mugger, rapist, burglar, carjacker, or murderer in the act. So good on our fellow ARFCOMers for finding temporary LEOSA creds, and I hope the free states can come up w/ some limited Reservist police category that satisfies the Federal LEOSA requirements that doesn't take 3-9 months of full-time training. Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Right now there is a shortage of qualified police officers pretty much everywhere. Probably the easiest time to get hired in the last 30-years. Anyone genuinely interested in being a police officer, and not just pretending to be one for personal gain, should apply now. They didn’t want to be cops. They just wanted 50 state gun rights, which we all should have. And to provide cover for drug smuggling, to seek “professional courtesy” when they massively fuck up, to play cop on drug task forces, to drum up business for their training/consulting small businesses, to obtain contract work they know they are unqualified for… Out of any group of 400 guys you will find some criminals, even police departments. This is the predicted result of LEOSA. Anyone that was paying attention knew it would be a backdoor for some to get a 50 state carry permit. I personally have no problems with cops carrying out of state in places like NYS but I also think I should have the same courtesy. I am not going to shit on those that did this. The other criminal acts by a small minority is another matter altogether. Everyone of these guys committed fraud. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:28:03 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gatekeeping because this is your sacred cow. I honestly don't know why you bother to post in these threads. Your opinions are so well known and predictable that most of us could write your posts for you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My opposition to a future AWB doesn't have anything to do with LEOSA Want to get LEOSA in AL? Here you go. Our Reserve Academy is open to all reserve/auxiliary officers in the State of Alabama. The Reserve Academy consists of the 520 hour APOSTC curriculum and classes are held on weekends (usually every other Saturday and Sunday). It takes one year to complete this training and a recruit can only miss 24 hours of training. Who Is a Qualified Law Enforcement Officer (QLEO)? LEOSA/HR 218 applies to employees of governmental agencies who: Are authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, prosecution of or the incarceration of any person for any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest or apprehension under 10 U.S. Code § 807, (article 7(b) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice); Are authorized by the agency to carry a firearm; Are not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency which could result in suspension or loss of police powers; Meet standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm; Are not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and Are not prohibited by federal law from receiving a firearm. It is not enough to be a QLEO, see the photographic identification & firearms qualification section below. https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/federal-ccw-law/leosa-hr-218/ A person is either qualified or not. Gatekeeping because this is your sacred cow. I honestly don't know why you bother to post in these threads. Your opinions are so well known and predictable that most of us could write your posts for you. I could have never predicted that you would defend those impersonating police officers, some of whom are criminals even if we ignore the fraud. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:28:07 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are multiple examples of the “reserves” representing themselves as actual police officers. Did all 400 of them do so? Unknown. Did many of them do so? Absolutely ... and there are multiple examples of Police officers (under your definition of the word) doing very bad and illegal things under color of law. This is a red-herring argument and irrelevant to the point. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:28:29 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I could have never predicted that you would defend those impersonating police officers, some of whom are criminals even if we ignore the fraud. Straw-man. You're conflating two different concepts, then presenting the one i'm not defending, and then knocking it over. As soon as you quit conflating the two we can have a productive discussion. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:30:01 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone of these guys committed fraud. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it impersonating a police officer if an agency is willing to send you out on patrol as a working police officer? Walking into a Wendy's and flashing your CCW badge to get the discount - that's impersonating a police officer. Taking the offer of LEOSA creds and actually patrolling the town a few times a year, that's an agency taking a huge risk w/ undertrained cops. I don't think the thin blue line quite understand how much the rest of us envy your LEOSA privilege, and how much you are resented for it. I could become a reserve officer - 6 months of full time training @ my local community college, then a good bit of street work to get past my apprenticeship. I don't have that kind of time, and that much training shouldn't be needed for me to carry a handgun in California or NY, not to mention the continuing reserve commitment. I don't need to know how to respond to calls, kick in doors, or wrestle suspects to the ground & cuff them to understand the laws on lethal force in the state I happen to be in, and to actually shoot a mugger, rapist, burglar, carjacker, or murderer in the act. So good on our fellow ARFCOMers for finding temporary LEOSA creds, and I hope the free states can come up w/ some limited Reservist police category that satisfies the Federal LEOSA requirements that doesn't take 3-9 months of full-time training. Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Right now there is a shortage of qualified police officers pretty much everywhere. Probably the easiest time to get hired in the last 30-years. Anyone genuinely interested in being a police officer, and not just pretending to be one for personal gain, should apply now. They didn’t want to be cops. They just wanted 50 state gun rights, which we all should have. And to provide cover for drug smuggling, to seek “professional courtesy” when they massively fuck up, to play cop on drug task forces, to drum up business for their training/consulting small businesses, to obtain contract work they know they are unqualified for… Out of any group of 400 guys you will find some criminals, even police departments. This is the predicted result of LEOSA. Anyone that was paying attention knew it would be a backdoor for some to get a 50 state carry permit. I personally have no problems with cops carrying out of state in places like NYS but I also think I should have the same courtesy. I am not going to shit on those that did this. The other criminal acts by a small minority is another matter altogether. Everyone of these guys committed fraud. Apparently that’s okay if it gets you the big money contracting gig you’re unqualified for or drums up business for your training “school” |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:31:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Straw-man. You're conflating two different concepts, then presenting the one i'm not defending, and then knocking it over. As soon as you quit conflating the two we can have a productive discussion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I could have never predicted that you would defend those impersonating police officers, some of whom are criminals even if we ignore the fraud. Straw-man. You're conflating two different concepts, then presenting the one i'm not defending, and then knocking it over. As soon as you quit conflating the two we can have a productive discussion. My point is impersonating a police officer is illegal and morally wrong, no matter the motive of the impersonator. My opinion would be the same if they were impersonating a doctor, lawyer, veteran, ect. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:36:54 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My point is impersonating a police officer is illegal and morally wrong, no matter the motive of the impersonator. Impersonating is an action. A verb. Impetus. Something one "does." I'd agree presenting onesself as something one isn't is morally wrong. Possessing a piece of paper is not impersonating. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:38:57 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone of these guys committed fraud. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it impersonating a police officer if an agency is willing to send you out on patrol as a working police officer? Walking into a Wendy's and flashing your CCW badge to get the discount - that's impersonating a police officer. Taking the offer of LEOSA creds and actually patrolling the town a few times a year, that's an agency taking a huge risk w/ undertrained cops. I don't think the thin blue line quite understand how much the rest of us envy your LEOSA privilege, and how much you are resented for it. I could become a reserve officer - 6 months of full time training @ my local community college, then a good bit of street work to get past my apprenticeship. I don't have that kind of time, and that much training shouldn't be needed for me to carry a handgun in California or NY, not to mention the continuing reserve commitment. I don't need to know how to respond to calls, kick in doors, or wrestle suspects to the ground & cuff them to understand the laws on lethal force in the state I happen to be in, and to actually shoot a mugger, rapist, burglar, carjacker, or murderer in the act. So good on our fellow ARFCOMers for finding temporary LEOSA creds, and I hope the free states can come up w/ some limited Reservist police category that satisfies the Federal LEOSA requirements that doesn't take 3-9 months of full-time training. Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Right now there is a shortage of qualified police officers pretty much everywhere. Probably the easiest time to get hired in the last 30-years. Anyone genuinely interested in being a police officer, and not just pretending to be one for personal gain, should apply now. They didn’t want to be cops. They just wanted 50 state gun rights, which we all should have. And to provide cover for drug smuggling, to seek “professional courtesy” when they massively fuck up, to play cop on drug task forces, to drum up business for their training/consulting small businesses, to obtain contract work they know they are unqualified for… Out of any group of 400 guys you will find some criminals, even police departments. This is the predicted result of LEOSA. Anyone that was paying attention knew it would be a backdoor for some to get a 50 state carry permit. I personally have no problems with cops carrying out of state in places like NYS but I also think I should have the same courtesy. I am not going to shit on those that did this. The other criminal acts by a small minority is another matter altogether. Everyone of these guys committed fraud. Our president is fraudulent. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:42:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gatekeeping because this is your sacred cow. I honestly don't know why you bother to post in these threads. Your opinions are so well known and predictable that most of us could write your posts for you.  a person is either qualified or not. They are either legal or not. They were not legal LEO's in NM. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 12:05:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: … yep. And equally opposite-clown world, everyone in this thread is believing —without question— an Anti-Trump hit piece from liberal journalisism sources. But these posters must have the whole story without any flavoring because we all know the media is unbiased when coming after guns and Trump campaign folks. ?? Seeing posters that have zero personal knowledge of the program, people, and the area make definitive statements on the volunteers mindsets, the town’s attitude towards the program, what the officers did or didn’t do… it’s like watching instant Covid-expert soccermoms hold court on Facebook. How many of the 400 or so fake cops, went to their local LEA, got hired, and then got POST certified so they could LEOSA? |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 12:19:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many of the 400 or so fake cops, went to their local LEA, got hired, and then got POST certified so they could LEOSA? You’re making some “aha!” argument, I guess? But who cares what anyone did afterwards? If someone quits a gig because the hours change, pay changes, terms or benefits change, etc. does that negate what they did? I’ve got a doctor buddy who stopped his medical career because new extra paperwork and liability laws changed enough to be a headache. Another quit because his hospital mandated a vaccine. In your straw man world, no matter what creds they had that alone (what they did afterwards) invalidates their valid medical work they put in prior to leaving? ?? As far as making assumptions about what all the volunteers are doing today— What benefit is there in making wild guesses about people you don’t know? |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 12:29:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many of the 400 or so fake cops, went to their local LEA, got hired, and then got POST certified so they could LEOSA? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: … yep. And equally opposite-clown world, everyone in this thread is believing —without question— an Anti-Trump hit piece from liberal journalisism sources. But these posters must have the whole story without any flavoring because we all know the media is unbiased when coming after guns and Trump campaign folks. ?? Seeing posters that have zero personal knowledge of the program, people, and the area make definitive statements on the volunteers mindsets, the town’s attitude towards the program, what the officers did or didn’t do… it’s like watching instant Covid-expert soccermoms hold court on Facebook. How many of the 400 or so fake cops, went to their local LEA, got hired, and then got POST certified so they could LEOSA? Hopefully none of them. any future LE endeavors would be permanently tarnished by the Lake Arthur fraud. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 12:34:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would like to know what percentage, if any went on to get accredited LEO status in their home states after this. They have had plenty of time to get their POST by now, if they were really interested in public service.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Interestingly, looks like none of the former "officers" took legal action against the "chief". Kind of smells like the gig was up. I would like to know what percentage, if any went on to get accredited LEO status in their home states after this. They have had plenty of time to get their POST by now, if they were really interested in public service. I know none of the Jersey guy(s) did. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 12:37:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You keep repeating this... but you're not making the point you think you're making. At one time with another AWB looming, you posted a thread saying you would not comply. You should be "not complying" by helping your department find the quickest / easiest / simplest way to assist citizenry into 50 state carry under LEOSA as well. You should be all about loopholing the hell out of it. But instead you're gatekeeping and being that bureaucrat i mentioned. Because for whatever reason this is one of your sacred cows. There is no way to assist every citizen in getting LEOSA carry, because there is no loophole on the civilian side (we will leave the military LE LEOSA for a different thread) for the status of being a LEO. The training requirement to meet the standard is defined by state statute in my state and is probably defined by law, code or statute in other states. Those pesky certification and training records can be an officer or department heads downfall for falsifying as well. "PENSACOLA, Fla. (WKRG) — State Attorney Bill Eddins announced Tuesday the arrest of two former Escambia County Sheriff’s deputies for allegedly falsifying training records. Lisa Hall and Kelly Hall, who are married, were arrested Monday and charged with forgery, uttering and official misconduct, and conspiracy to commit forgery, uttering and official misconduct. The charges are the result of an investigation into the alleged falsification of mandatory training records pertaining to the Halls employment with the sheriff’s office from 2014 to 2019, according to a state attorney’s office media release. Lisa Hall, the release says, falsified records for Kelly Hall, showing that he had completed required training when he had not." https://www.wkrg.com/northwest-florida/former-escambia-county-sheriffs-deputies-accused-of-falsifying-records/ The above was for already certified officers falsifying training records. Can you imagine if it was for an officer falsifying records to indicate that a non certified person was in fact an officer? We actually have a computerized system for training records and it would be almost impossible to do without falsifying the completion record for the Basic Recruit Certification first. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 12:39:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re making some “aha!” argument, I guess? But who cares what anyone did afterwards? If someone quits a gig because the hours change, pay changes, terms or benefits change, etc. does that negate what they did? I’ve got a doctor buddy who stopped his medical career because new extra paperwork and liability laws changed enough to be a headache. Another quit because his hospital mandated a vaccine. In your straw man world, no matter what creds they had that alone (what they did afterwards) invalidates their valid medical work they put in prior to leaving? ?? As far as making assumptions about what all the volunteers are doing today— What benefit is there in making wild guesses about people you don’t know? I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with your posts. Are you arguing the program was not a fraud? Are you arguing the program was a fraud, but the people involved are good people and didn’t know? The program was legit and the participants were real cops? I’m interested in your take. You seem to have inside information suggesting everyone that has a problem with the program is under a false assumption based on misinformation in the multiple articles published. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 1:23:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure that happens somewhere, but I doubt entirely fake reserve programs are common. If they are then it should be easy to name one or two. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The politically connected getting reserve creds is not a new practice. I'm sure that happens somewhere, but I doubt entirely fake reserve programs are common. If they are then it should be easy to name one or two. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 1:24:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Impersonating is an action. A verb. Impetus. Something one "does." I'd agree presenting onesself as something one isn't is morally wrong. Possessing a piece of paper is not impersonating. It is if you are using the piece of paper in a fraudulent manner. If one were purporting that based upon that paper, that they were qualified for LEOSA or to make arrests, or whatever, and they are not. That is flat out wrong. CCW reciprocity is a wholly separate issue. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 1:29:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re making some “aha!” argument, I guess? But who cares what anyone did afterwards? If someone quits a gig because the hours change, pay changes, terms or benefits change, etc. does that negate what they did? I’ve got a doctor buddy who stopped his medical career because new extra paperwork and liability laws changed enough to be a headache. Another quit because his hospital mandated a vaccine. In your straw man world, no matter what creds they had that alone (what they did afterwards) invalidates their valid medical work they put in prior to leaving? ?? As far as making assumptions about what all the volunteers are doing today— What benefit is there in making wild guesses about people you don’t know? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many of the 400 or so fake cops, went to their local LEA, got hired, and then got POST certified so they could LEOSA? You’re making some “aha!” argument, I guess? But who cares what anyone did afterwards? If someone quits a gig because the hours change, pay changes, terms or benefits change, etc. does that negate what they did? I’ve got a doctor buddy who stopped his medical career because new extra paperwork and liability laws changed enough to be a headache. Another quit because his hospital mandated a vaccine. In your straw man world, no matter what creds they had that alone (what they did afterwards) invalidates their valid medical work they put in prior to leaving? ?? As far as making assumptions about what all the volunteers are doing today— What benefit is there in making wild guesses about people you don’t know? If they were reserving in a town of 400 people and doing it to better that community it be easy to surmise that they would go do it where they actually live. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 1:33:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no way to assist every citizen in getting LEOSA carry, because there is no loophole on the civilian side (we will leave the military LE LEOSA for a different thread) for the status of being a LEO. The training requirement to meet the standard is defined by state statute in my state and is probably defined by law, code or statute in other states. Those pesky certification and training records can be an officer or department heads downfall for falsifying as well. "PENSACOLA, Fla. (WKRG) — State Attorney Bill Eddins announced Tuesday the arrest of two former Escambia County Sheriff’s deputies for allegedly falsifying training records. Lisa Hall and Kelly Hall, who are married, were arrested Monday and charged with forgery, uttering and official misconduct, and conspiracy to commit forgery, uttering and official misconduct. The charges are the result of an investigation into the alleged falsification of mandatory training records pertaining to the Halls employment with the sheriff’s office from 2014 to 2019, according to a state attorney’s office media release. Lisa Hall, the release says, falsified records for Kelly Hall, showing that he had completed required training when he had not." https://www.wkrg.com/northwest-florida/former-escambia-county-sheriffs-deputies-accused-of-falsifying-records/ The above was for already certified officers falsifying training records. Can you imagine if it was for an officer falsifying records to indicate that a non certified person was in fact an officer? We actually have a computerized system for training records and it would be almost impossible to do without falsifying the completion record for the Basic Recruit Certification first. GD is funny. In the GA pastor got shot and killed over a decade ago thread, the guy who either did the shooting or part of it was a former LEO, who did contracting in the sandbox, came back, got rehired but did not complete the necessary training hours for re-cert, GD lost it's shit. Here we have guys wanting to give these folks a pass for a "loophole" that does not exist. I had to get re-certified a decade ago because I let my POST lapse. It's a thing, you either have it or you don't. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 1:36:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with your posts. Are you arguing the program was not a fraud? Are you arguing the program was a fraud, but the people involved are good people and didn’t know? The program was legit and the participants were real cops? I’m interested in your take. You seem to have inside information suggesting everyone that has a problem with the program is under a false assumption based on misinformation in the multiple articles published. I know one of the guys who was involved. He is a good dude. He simply didn't want to go his state mandated POST cert route. It was easier to pay to play. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 2:01:53 PM EDT
[#38]
The sad thing is the rights of people have been so squandered by the states that people feel they have to take those measures. I’m not condoning it being done but it damn sure shouldn’t have to be either.
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Posted: 4/18/2022 2:22:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD is funny. In the GA pastor got shot and killed over a decade ago thread, the guy who either did the shooting or part of it was a former LEO, who did contracting in the sandbox, came back, got rehired but did not complete the necessary training hours for re-cert, GD lost it's shit. Here we have guys wanting to give these folks a pass for a "loophole" that does not exist. I had to get re-certified a decade ago because I let my POST lapse. It's a thing, you either have it or you don't. I just did the same thing a few weeks ago because of the time that has lapsed since my last date of service. Lemme tell you, it was eye-opening to see how much I retained after six years away, taking 19 chapter tests in one weekend before the state exam the following Monday. Still not sure how in the hell I scored a 182/190 with almost no studying except taking those practice tests... LOL |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 2:23:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apparently that’s okay if it gets you the big money contracting gig you’re unqualified for or drums up business for your training “school” Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it impersonating a police officer if an agency is willing to send you out on patrol as a working police officer? Walking into a Wendy's and flashing your CCW badge to get the discount - that's impersonating a police officer. Taking the offer of LEOSA creds and actually patrolling the town a few times a year, that's an agency taking a huge risk w/ undertrained cops. I don't think the thin blue line quite understand how much the rest of us envy your LEOSA privilege, and how much you are resented for it. I could become a reserve officer - 6 months of full time training @ my local community college, then a good bit of street work to get past my apprenticeship. I don't have that kind of time, and that much training shouldn't be needed for me to carry a handgun in California or NY, not to mention the continuing reserve commitment. I don't need to know how to respond to calls, kick in doors, or wrestle suspects to the ground & cuff them to understand the laws on lethal force in the state I happen to be in, and to actually shoot a mugger, rapist, burglar, carjacker, or murderer in the act. So good on our fellow ARFCOMers for finding temporary LEOSA creds, and I hope the free states can come up w/ some limited Reservist police category that satisfies the Federal LEOSA requirements that doesn't take 3-9 months of full-time training. Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Right now there is a shortage of qualified police officers pretty much everywhere. Probably the easiest time to get hired in the last 30-years. Anyone genuinely interested in being a police officer, and not just pretending to be one for personal gain, should apply now. They didn’t want to be cops. They just wanted 50 state gun rights, which we all should have. And to provide cover for drug smuggling, to seek “professional courtesy” when they massively fuck up, to play cop on drug task forces, to drum up business for their training/consulting small businesses, to obtain contract work they know they are unqualified for… Out of any group of 400 guys you will find some criminals, even police departments. This is the predicted result of LEOSA. Anyone that was paying attention knew it would be a backdoor for some to get a 50 state carry permit. I personally have no problems with cops carrying out of state in places like NYS but I also think I should have the same courtesy. I am not going to shit on those that did this. The other criminal acts by a small minority is another matter altogether. Everyone of these guys committed fraud. Apparently that’s okay if it gets you the big money contracting gig you’re unqualified for or drums up business for your training “school” Still wrong. I wish they were prosecuted. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 2:51:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still wrong. I wish they were prosecuted. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it impersonating a police officer if an agency is willing to send you out on patrol as a working police officer? Walking into a Wendy's and flashing your CCW badge to get the discount - that's impersonating a police officer. Taking the offer of LEOSA creds and actually patrolling the town a few times a year, that's an agency taking a huge risk w/ undertrained cops. I don't think the thin blue line quite understand how much the rest of us envy your LEOSA privilege, and how much you are resented for it. I could become a reserve officer - 6 months of full time training @ my local community college, then a good bit of street work to get past my apprenticeship. I don't have that kind of time, and that much training shouldn't be needed for me to carry a handgun in California or NY, not to mention the continuing reserve commitment. I don't need to know how to respond to calls, kick in doors, or wrestle suspects to the ground & cuff them to understand the laws on lethal force in the state I happen to be in, and to actually shoot a mugger, rapist, burglar, carjacker, or murderer in the act. So good on our fellow ARFCOMers for finding temporary LEOSA creds, and I hope the free states can come up w/ some limited Reservist police category that satisfies the Federal LEOSA requirements that doesn't take 3-9 months of full-time training. Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Right now there is a shortage of qualified police officers pretty much everywhere. Probably the easiest time to get hired in the last 30-years. Anyone genuinely interested in being a police officer, and not just pretending to be one for personal gain, should apply now. They didn’t want to be cops. They just wanted 50 state gun rights, which we all should have. And to provide cover for drug smuggling, to seek “professional courtesy” when they massively fuck up, to play cop on drug task forces, to drum up business for their training/consulting small businesses, to obtain contract work they know they are unqualified for… Out of any group of 400 guys you will find some criminals, even police departments. This is the predicted result of LEOSA. Anyone that was paying attention knew it would be a backdoor for some to get a 50 state carry permit. I personally have no problems with cops carrying out of state in places like NYS but I also think I should have the same courtesy. I am not going to shit on those that did this. The other criminal acts by a small minority is another matter altogether. Everyone of these guys committed fraud. Apparently that’s okay if it gets you the big money contracting gig you’re unqualified for or drums up business for your training “school” Still wrong. I wish they were prosecuted. And how many did New Mexico prosecute? Any? Why not? |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 3:10:09 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And how many did New Mexico prosecute? Any? Why not? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it impersonating a police officer if an agency is willing to send you out on patrol as a working police officer? Walking into a Wendy's and flashing your CCW badge to get the discount - that's impersonating a police officer. Taking the offer of LEOSA creds and actually patrolling the town a few times a year, that's an agency taking a huge risk w/ undertrained cops. I don't think the thin blue line quite understand how much the rest of us envy your LEOSA privilege, and how much you are resented for it. I could become a reserve officer - 6 months of full time training @ my local community college, then a good bit of street work to get past my apprenticeship. I don't have that kind of time, and that much training shouldn't be needed for me to carry a handgun in California or NY, not to mention the continuing reserve commitment. I don't need to know how to respond to calls, kick in doors, or wrestle suspects to the ground & cuff them to understand the laws on lethal force in the state I happen to be in, and to actually shoot a mugger, rapist, burglar, carjacker, or murderer in the act. So good on our fellow ARFCOMers for finding temporary LEOSA creds, and I hope the free states can come up w/ some limited Reservist police category that satisfies the Federal LEOSA requirements that doesn't take 3-9 months of full-time training. Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Right now there is a shortage of qualified police officers pretty much everywhere. Probably the easiest time to get hired in the last 30-years. Anyone genuinely interested in being a police officer, and not just pretending to be one for personal gain, should apply now. They didn’t want to be cops. They just wanted 50 state gun rights, which we all should have. And to provide cover for drug smuggling, to seek “professional courtesy” when they massively fuck up, to play cop on drug task forces, to drum up business for their training/consulting small businesses, to obtain contract work they know they are unqualified for… Out of any group of 400 guys you will find some criminals, even police departments. This is the predicted result of LEOSA. Anyone that was paying attention knew it would be a backdoor for some to get a 50 state carry permit. I personally have no problems with cops carrying out of state in places like NYS but I also think I should have the same courtesy. I am not going to shit on those that did this. The other criminal acts by a small minority is another matter altogether. Everyone of these guys committed fraud. Apparently that’s okay if it gets you the big money contracting gig you’re unqualified for or drums up business for your training “school” Still wrong. I wish they were prosecuted. And how many did New Mexico prosecute? Any? Why not?  Cops don't get prosecuted....they resign They even quit like real cops caught up in shit! LOL Don't get too caught up in the sarcasm |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 3:25:18 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no way to assist every citizen in getting LEOSA carry, because there is no loophole on the civilian side (we will leave the military LE LEOSA for a different thread) for the status of being a LEO. The training requirement to meet the standard is defined by state statute in my state and is probably defined by law, code or statute in other states. Those pesky certification and training records can be an officer or department heads downfall for falsifying as well. "PENSACOLA, Fla. (WKRG) — State Attorney Bill Eddins announced Tuesday the arrest of two former Escambia County Sheriff’s deputies for allegedly falsifying training records. Lisa Hall and Kelly Hall, who are married, were arrested Monday and charged with forgery, uttering and official misconduct, and conspiracy to commit forgery, uttering and official misconduct. The charges are the result of an investigation into the alleged falsification of mandatory training records pertaining to the Halls employment with the sheriff’s office from 2014 to 2019, according to a state attorney’s office media release. Lisa Hall, the release says, falsified records for Kelly Hall, showing that he had completed required training when he had not." https://www.wkrg.com/northwest-florida/former-escambia-county-sheriffs-deputies-accused-of-falsifying-records/ The above was for already certified officers falsifying training records. Can you imagine if it was for an officer falsifying records to indicate that a non certified person was in fact an officer? We actually have a computerized system for training records and it would be almost impossible to do without falsifying the completion record for the Basic Recruit Certification first. In prior threads you've states as to not perceiving a difference between law, policy, morality, and ethics. To you they are all one and the same. To you, the law is the law and there is no greater ethical / moral framework. I grant to you that in your perception, these issues are linked. You cannot see the one without the other. So yea, every freedom loving LE department in the country should be pencil whipping the heck out of LEOSA prereqs, doing everything in their power by acting on behalf of the citizenry to balance out a gross overstep of Fed and state governments. Either you support the citizenry in finding their way into 'fuck you' territory to fed and other state gov issues. Or not. From all your (and others) posts here, you do not. In your case, it appears as if you do not perceive a difference between what is 'right' and what is 'law.' There can be no agreement. What you'll need to consider in the future is just how far "the law is the law" goes. Nothing new about that argument. It's the same one people have been having since the beginning of time. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 4:13:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And how many did New Mexico prosecute? Any? Why not? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it impersonating a police officer if an agency is willing to send you out on patrol as a working police officer? Walking into a Wendy's and flashing your CCW badge to get the discount - that's impersonating a police officer. Taking the offer of LEOSA creds and actually patrolling the town a few times a year, that's an agency taking a huge risk w/ undertrained cops. I don't think the thin blue line quite understand how much the rest of us envy your LEOSA privilege, and how much you are resented for it. I could become a reserve officer - 6 months of full time training @ my local community college, then a good bit of street work to get past my apprenticeship. I don't have that kind of time, and that much training shouldn't be needed for me to carry a handgun in California or NY, not to mention the continuing reserve commitment. I don't need to know how to respond to calls, kick in doors, or wrestle suspects to the ground & cuff them to understand the laws on lethal force in the state I happen to be in, and to actually shoot a mugger, rapist, burglar, carjacker, or murderer in the act. So good on our fellow ARFCOMers for finding temporary LEOSA creds, and I hope the free states can come up w/ some limited Reservist police category that satisfies the Federal LEOSA requirements that doesn't take 3-9 months of full-time training. Your resentment is misplaced. The reason you can’t carry in California has nothing to do with LEOSA. It is the California laws. LEOSA could disappear tomorrow and you still can’t carry in California. You could move to a California conservative county and apply like those that live there. Or, you could find someone that lives there, pay them $400 for a fake lease and then apply. It might work for a while, but it is still wrong and eventually you would get caught. Since those ideas probably won’t work and it’s not fair you can’t carry, you could resent the people who live in conservative California counties and advocate doing away with their ability. However, the Lake Arthur situation wasn’t about LEOSA. It was about fraud. I don’t know of any police officer that became a cop just so he could carry. Many were cops well before LEOSA became law. Cops, especially the ones in this thread, are for constitutional carry. They just have a problem with the fake cop bullshit. If it’s so easy to become a cop and the requirements are so low, then everyone should just go out and become a cop. But, as you have stated, it’s not really that easy. Right now there is a shortage of qualified police officers pretty much everywhere. Probably the easiest time to get hired in the last 30-years. Anyone genuinely interested in being a police officer, and not just pretending to be one for personal gain, should apply now. They didn’t want to be cops. They just wanted 50 state gun rights, which we all should have. And to provide cover for drug smuggling, to seek “professional courtesy” when they massively fuck up, to play cop on drug task forces, to drum up business for their training/consulting small businesses, to obtain contract work they know they are unqualified for… Out of any group of 400 guys you will find some criminals, even police departments. This is the predicted result of LEOSA. Anyone that was paying attention knew it would be a backdoor for some to get a 50 state carry permit. I personally have no problems with cops carrying out of state in places like NYS but I also think I should have the same courtesy. I am not going to shit on those that did this. The other criminal acts by a small minority is another matter altogether. Everyone of these guys committed fraud. Apparently that’s okay if it gets you the big money contracting gig you’re unqualified for or drums up business for your training “school” Still wrong. I wish they were prosecuted. And how many did New Mexico prosecute? Any? Why not? I suspect NM didn’t want to spotlight corruption in their state involving wealthy business owners, celebrities, politically connected persons and veterans. Can you imagine the media circus of prosecuting Royce Gracie, Dan Bilzarian and Marcus Lutrell as co-defendants!? |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 4:26:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suspect NM didn’t want to spotlight corruption in their state involving wealthy business owners, celebrities, politically connected persons and veterans. Can you imagine the media circus of prosecuting Royce Gracie, Dan Bilzarian and Marcus Lutrell as co-defendants!? I wonder how many of the prior guys applied to come back when the reformed a police department.  Attached FileThe new chief wasn't on the old roster. 100 some guys on the old one, no one came back? |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 4:28:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In prior threads you've states as to not perceiving a difference between law, policy, morality, and ethics. To you they are all one and the same. To you, the law is the law and there is no greater ethical / moral framework. I grant to you that in your perception, these issues are linked. You cannot see the one without the other. So yea, every freedom loving LE department in the country should be pencil whipping the heck out of LEOSA prereqs, doing everything in their power by acting on behalf of the citizenry to balance out a gross overstep of Fed and state governments. Either you support the citizenry in finding their way into 'fuck you' territory to fed and other state gov issues. Or not. From all your (and others) posts here, you do not. In your case, it appears as if you do not perceive a difference between what is 'right' and what is 'law.' There can be no agreement. What you'll need to consider in the future is just how far "the law is the law" goes. Nothing new about that argument. It's the same one people have been having since the beginning of time. The prerequisites have already been listed here, other than annual qual with the gun you're going to carry. There is not really any pencil whipping possible in 2022. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 4:33:04 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The prerequisites have already been listed here, other than annual qual with the gun you're going to carry. There is not really any pencil whipping possible in 2022. But, why do you hate freedom? I mean you wouldn't just sign off on something for strangers who could do something with it and you would have to answer for it, criminally or maybe even civilly. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 4:38:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The prerequisites have already been listed here, other than annual qual with the gun you're going to carry. There is not really any pencil whipping possible in 2022. In Texas, they like to occasionally make a harsh example of a department that is pencil whipping its reporting on mandatory training. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 4:44:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But, why do you hate freedom? I mean you wouldn't just sign off on something for strangers who could do something with it and you would have to answer for it, criminally or maybe even civilly. You mean, would I, having been placed / voted / earned a position of power able to use clever ways to push back against overstepping of authority of other departments, elsewhere, particularly in a matter of Constitutional overreach, the rights of people, and the authority of states in regards of their people and the Federal government; And most particularly to use their own laws against them to effect that pushback while concurrently and pointedly highlighting inherent hypocrisies in the system or law? Abso-fucking-lutely. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 4:54:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In Texas, they like to occasionally make a harsh example of a department that is pencil whipping its reporting on mandatory training. As they should, anywhere and anytime a department is contracted to apply police powers upon the citizenry / residents, and employs officers to do so. Particularly as a profession. |
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