It does matter, it's the wording added to the riddle that obfuscates the obvious answer. Beyond that it has no relevance but without it there wouldn't be s riddle.

Actually I almost agreed with you, and did the chart on the same website you did. I honestly was thinking I was wrong. I kept looking at it knowing it was inccorrect then I figured out why its wrong. it is not taking distance traveled its only taking altitude change. At least the chart I did. Give me a few mins to show it.

When the monk and shadow monk cross paths (literally) on the mountain, they are by definition at the same time and place.

If the path is a train track with two trains going opposite directions toward eachother, they will eventually collide. They will collide at the same time & place. They can't collide with eachother at different places or at different times.

You ever walk down the sidewalk, and pass somebody coming the other way? Have you ever passed somebody not at the same time and place? Did you pass them at some other time when you weren't present in your body? Did you pass them at some other place you weren't at?

That's what crossing means.
"7. any design, mark, or object made by lines or surfaces that intersect one another."
"8. to meet (each other) in passing."
Emphasis mine.

If the path is the same, you can substitute altitude for mile-post (point of distance, for clarity), with no change in outcome.  

this is assuming you're not walking up and down or back and forth on the path-  which again, doesn't change the outcome if each instance of a particular altitude or mile-post is considered independent

What if bottom monk starts but then realizes he forgot his incense and goes back to basecamp to get it just as top monk arrived?

Go ahead. Be warned, I've got my Excel file up so I can show every point, even the intersection in zoomed-in excruciating detail.

Also, I note that you've ignored my example where I show a scenario where the monks CAN meet, despite different and varying speeds. Height of 4 out of 12 @ 12pm. Feel free to address that, or keep ignoring it. Your call.

Simplify the riddle-

Now I'm confused

i need a new graph

@StaccatoC2 I made a new graph for you!!!

Attached File

Honestly, I'd rather like it if the monk didn't cross paths with their erstwhile self. The simplification of mountain roadways would be epically epic. No opposing traffic, no need for left side / right side, no traffic markings, no possibility of head-on collisions in both directions?

I'd buy a 911 tomorrow.
Attached File

Seems stupidly worded. If the monk can speed up or slow down, he could or could not pass a specific location at the same time each day. What's the point of the question?

What if pete butgaysex is the secretary of transportation? 1 train derails and leaks toxic chemicals on children and joe biden is on the other train that just never goes there.

To prove that he HAS to cross paths. There is no way he could not cross.

You’re not getting a Porsche up a mountain pass filled with monks, I don’t care what the shape of the graph is.

Birds are not real

The specific point along the trail doesn't matter.

If one monk sped up, he would go farther along the trail before he passed the monk going the other way but they would still be in the same spot at the same time.

No one should care what the actual point is or what the actual time is.

All that matters is that they get to the same random spot at the same time whether it was one monk over two days or his twin brother walking up while he walked down.

Ok, I think this works



the riddle throws a lot of unnecessary information in.  Ignore the mountain, ignore the day change, ignore the monk, ignore the ability to alter speed.  None of those things are relevant nor is the location they cross

If an Item travels a line with a set starting point and time to a set finish point and time, will an item traveling in the opposite direction on the same path starting at the same time, impact it?  

I honestly do not understand how people get this wrong.  Two things matter.  Same path, and leave at the same time. Nothing else matters.  So the concept of visualizing one on top and one on bottom leaving at the same time, can only lead you(or anyone with a working brain) to realize that that they would have to cross paths.  Crossing paths means they are at the same place and time.  JFC people are dumb.

Aftermath?

Dre, grab the gat, show ‘em where it’s at.

What if one train hits 88 mph?

then the other trains mom is about to have a fucked up train baby in the past

Fack.

Baja it? Knobbies? Ground clearance? Carrera 4S? Good wipers?

Ah, well... dream anyways.

After rereading, I see what they did. Yeah, they can pass the same spot. But they'll never be in the exact same spot as I presumed it was asking. Oh well.

(ETA: unless you're using imprecise measurements)

Ok first thing we have to do is pick a total distance walked, it will be the same each way. Lets use 24 miles, that if done at the exact same pace 2 mph. Agreed?

monk on day one starts out walking 2.2 mph because he is refreshed and knows he has a long walk. He walks for 2 hours, he has covered 4.4 miles agreed?
the next two hours he is getting a little tired so he slows to 2 mph for the next 2 hours, he walked another 4 miles. agreed? total is now 8.4 miles agreed? and 4 hours in
next two hours he is still tired and slows down to 1.9 mph, so now he has done another 3.8 miles, agreed? so he is half way thru the day and done 12.2 miles or just over half, agreed?
he has 11.8 miles left to go, agreed?
he knows he is just over half way and thinks he can speed up to an average of 1.9666 hours for the rest of the day agreed? so 6 more hours times 1.9666 mph and he covers 11.8 miles and arrives at 8pm. agreed?

Next day, he is feeling refreshed and its down hill so he starts at 2.3 mph for 3 hours, he covers 6.9 miles agreed?
after the 3 hours he think I should slow down as I am making great time and enjoy the view. he slows to 2 mph for 2 hours, he covered another 4 miles, agreed? total covered 10.9 miles agreed in 5 hours?
he then realizes he is still going way faster than he needs to, and slows down to 1.8 mph, so he covered 1.8 more miles, agreed? or a total for the day of 12.7 miles and half way thru the day, agreed?

at this point he speed for the rest of the day does not matter, its noon and he is 12.7 miles down the 24 total, or 11.3 from the bottom. The day before he 6 hours in at noon he was 12.2 miles, or .9 miles further down than where he was the day before at noon.

so now lets work backwards some, at hour 5 on the way down he was at 10.9 mile or 13.1 from the bottom, and hour 5 on the way up he was, hold lets do the math. 4 hours in he was 8.4 miles, the next 1 hour he was another 1.9 or 10.3 the way up.

so hour 6 day one 12.7 miles up
hour 6 day 2 12.7 miles down or 11.3 from the bottom.  
he past the time and place from the day before.

so here we back up
hour 5 on the way up 10.3 miles
hour 5 on the way down 10.9 from top or 13.1 from the bottom

so 6 hours in he past where he was the previous day, at 5 hours he has not. so lets do 5.5 hours.

4 hours on the way up he has done 8.4 miles agreed, lets add in the next hour. he did 1.9 the next hour over the so at hour 5 he is at 10.3, agreed. add in 30 mins at .95 total day going up or 11.25 mile in 5.5 hours
on the way down first 3 hours 6.9 miles, next 2 hour 3.6 more 10.5 miles agreed? but we are only in 5 hours. the next hour he does 1.8 mph but in 30 mins cover .9. 10.5 plus the .9 equals 11.4 miles down. Not even half way.

so 5 hours in he is not half way up or down. same for 5.5 hours. at 5.5 hours he is up 11.25 miles and down 11.4 ( or 12.6 from bottom ). that is a distance difference of 1.35 miles, he would need to be traveling the same speed to cover the 1/2 last 1.35 miles in the same time, but at this point he is doing 1.9 mph on the way up and 1.8 down. He will never meet at the same spot at the same time when he has the same .675 miles to cover at different speeds.

Dude.  This is a simple application of intersecting inversed lines using slope intercept form.   I could build you the model on excel in 3 minutes.   It will show mathematically under any assumption of speed from either the ascent or descent that they will intersect at the same point in time at the same location.    This is 7th grade math

I am going to change this, to variable speed over time

no its prove he crosses the same place at the same time. every one keeps leaving off the time.

You can never be in the same place twice

Already answered:

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lol holy shit.

12.2 or 12.7 on the way up at halfway?

Your numbers aren't even consistent in your own post. Put your numbers in my Excel graph and started double-checking. That was the first error. I'm not looking to see if it's the only error. Fix that, and try again.

11.73 up @ 1346.

yes holy shit had messed it up a few times. but its right now, when I submitted it.

Make your own and stop butchering mine. You can't even get formatting right.

Attached File


I haven't left off the time. You can't even keep track of your own numbers in your own posts.

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Under no circumstance will Biden cross paths with the people affected by the toxic chemicals.  It's a moral impossibility.

fpni and also has the perfect woman as an avatar

As far as I can tell: 1345 and 25 seconds, 11.74

Line 18: 1345; 11.725; 11.75
At 1345, the monk traveling up is at 11.725 units. The monk traveling down is at 11.75 units.

Line 19: 1346; 11.756~; 11.72
At 1346, the monk traveling up is at 11.75667~ units. The monk traveling down is at 11.72 units.

As another poster had been asking... what happened in the minute that elapsed from 1345-1346 that made them switch positions?

I think you're overthinking this and have confused yourself.

Remove all numbers because they are irrelevant. Forget that it's one monk on different days, because that is just to confuse people. Use two monks on the same day, and they begin and end at the same time.

You understand that if one is at the bottom heading up, and the other is at the top heading down, they will, at some point, meet, yes?

That point they meet at; they each travelled the exact same amount of time reach there, regardless of the distance either one walked. It doesn't matter if that point is in the middle, the first third, or the last quarter - if they met there, that's how long it took them to reach that point. The spot along the path that the monks will pass at precisely the same time of day.

Stop

think about how riddles work.

did that scree you just wrote out ever represent how riddles work?

Also- using your logic, assume they traveled at the same speed the whole way.  It is possible for them to cross at the same point at the same time. The riddle didn't say they couldn't.  Therefore the possible answers in your scenario is "maybe but unlikely" or "yes."   "No" is not possible.    We're given "no" or "yes."

You know the really interesting thing? He's picking random numbers that result in no perceived intersect from his perspective. In the space that is 1 mountain tall and 12 hours long, he's looking for a mathematical point which has no length or width. He's going to be looking forever in that space, and because he cannot find it using the methods he knows, his claim is that it doesn't exist. His claim is that mathematical points cannot be proven to exist at certain coordinates. 'If I can't find it, it doesn't exist.'

Holy shit.

You can not use two monks, using two monks changes every thing. by using one monk it locks time and place in for one variable. aka at this time he is here. if there is any different speeds at any point until the two plots cross it will be a different place or time.

Yes the two paths will meet, but where and when.

your next statement ruins your answer . the distance matter if they are to be in the same place. if one walked for 4 hours and covered half the distance say 6 miles and the other walks .25% faster at 4 hour he walked 6x1.25 or 7.5 miles. that is not the same place.

The funnest part about these is trying to understand what detail throws someone off. The extra details don’t help.

Even in your last paragraph it still has extraneous info. The starting point and times are necessary, but only the finish point is necessary (well, I guess it’s necessary that the monks finish their journey). How long it takes them to do it is irrelevant. Cut one of the times to two hours and the lines still intersect.

okay incase I did mess the math here is it laid out in excell, not figured in excell just used as a format

Attached File

ok- simplify it

10 mile trip exactly
12 hour trip exactly
Both monks at the same exact speed and start and stop at exactly the same time

all of this is allowed in the riddle.

at hour 6, exactly, where is each monk?  Same point, same time.  1400, at mile marker 5.

therefore, using your logic, "maybe" must be an answer.  "Maybe" is not an answer.  Your logic is flawed

Monk leaves at 8am to hike up the 12 miles over 12 hours.  The monk travels at 1mph to take in the views and do monk stuff.  The monk stops at the mile 6 mile marker to rest and have lunch.  Lunch is delivered each day at 2pm by drone.  The monk has to be at the mile 6 mile marker on day one and day two at 2pm for lunch.

Guess I was beat at some point.

One monk walked for 4 hours and covered half the distance which is 6 miles.
The other monk walked for 4 hours at .25% faster? 25% or .25%? Is this where I assume you meant 25% and not .25%?
The other monk walked for 4 hours 25% faster than the first monk.

This is important. Where are your two monks? One has traveled 4 hours headed up the mountain, is sitting at the 6 miles marker, with 6 more miles to go. The other has traveled 4 hours DOWN the mountain, and is sitting... 7.5 miles from the top, or 4.5 from the bottom. The monk traveling up is farther up than the monk traveling down, right?

We're gonna step this every hour:
At 9am, what situation exists? UpMonk is sitting at an elevation of 1.5 miles. DownMonk is sitting at an elevation of 10.125 miles (12-1.875).
At 10am, what situation exists? UpMonk is sitting at an elevation of 3.0 miles. DownMonk is sitting at an elevation of 8.25 miles (12-1.875-1.875).
At 11am, what situation exists? UpMonk is sitting at an elevation of 4.5 miles. DownMonk is sitting at an elevation of 6.375 miles (12-1.875-1.875-1.875). [UpMonk is BELOW DownMonk]
At 12pm, what situation exists? UpMonk is sitting at an elevation of 6.0 miles. DownMonk is sitting at an elevation of 4.5 miles (12-1.875-1.875-1.875-1.875). [UpMonk is now ABOVE DownMonk]

What happened between 11am and 12pm? What happened between an elevation of 4.5 to 6.375 miles? HOW did UpMonk get above DownMonk?

My challenge to you is to step this in smaller increments. Go for a 15 minutes, or every minute, or every second. Throw out your notion that somehow you have to specify a location and then 'prove' the monk is at that location at different times of the day.

The place and time don't matter because the spot at which they meet is the place and time.


Where and when don't matter. They will meet and be at the same place at the same time -> that is the definition of "meet."


If one walked halfway, and the other walked more than halfway, they already passed the point at which they meet.

which the riddle did not say, its says speeds can change. again you can not methodically prove anything when there is an unknown variable. which is the speed at every moment. it just cant be done. math needs constants to solve the problem and no location and time answer of l1xs1=l2xs2 does not work ( l = location s= speed ). You can solve for l1 and l2 by picking a spot, but with out s1 or s2 you can not say the time is right.

This isn't a math problem, and you're confusing yourself by trying to make it one.

Earlier in the thread, I posted "No matter where you go, there you are" in a tongue-in-cheek manner, but it really is the solution to the riddle.