User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
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Posted: 7/18/2022 3:54:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many of the people that do this actually made ANY attempt to lock things out? I tend to think most of the time, its someone that has utterly no idea what they're doing, not someone that actually tried to isolate from the grid and made a mistake. Everyone's got their own level of comfort, but I'm OK with locking out my main breaker at the meter base, and plugging into a dryer outlet, being that all three relevant items are next to each other. Having a male/male cord around is no different than a loaded gun. I don't support safe storage laws and biometric guns, even though inevitably people get killed with insecure guns all the time. Especially when it is so cheap to make it reasonably correct. Like I said, I did it "right", at a bare minimum, for $200. $100 of that was the product I linked. The other $100 I spent could have been avoided, because it was me paying for installation of a simple box and connecting 3-4 wires. The product I linked is basically the same as installing a light switch, which I am sure lots of fellas on here do themselves. I can absolutely see a situation in which the power is out and Dad trips over the suicide cord, unplugging it. Jr., who helps Dad all the time around the house and has plugged in hundreds of cords goes "I got it Dad!", trying to be helpful. There isn't even any lights on for Dad to see and now Jr. just grabbed the terminals of a live wire. Firearms are very much intended for a purpose. Electricity does not share that same purpose. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:02:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fricking morons with their double male ended homemade cords. Dipshits. If you have one of those cords, go cut an end off of it before you kill someone. So people make a male to male cord and feed their panel via generator through an existing outlet or something? By doing so powers anything linked to the panel or am I way off here? Not playing dumb here just trying to fully understand what happened and why. Seems like a bad idea regardless as panels should be a one way system, right? Well, without the proper cut offs etc. @MontstrSp |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:05:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Retards should be charged with murder just for doing that dumb shit. Maybe manslaughter, but not murder. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:05:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never knew this was a thing. So people make a male to male cord and feed their panel via generator through an existing outlet or something? By doing so powers anything linked to the panel or am I way off here? Not playing dumb here just trying to fully understand what happened and why. Seems like a bad idea regardless as panels should be a one way system, right? Well, without the proper cut offs etc. @MontstrSp If they forget to isolate their breaker panel from the power line, they then energize the power line. In addition, if the grid power is then restored, unfun things can happen to their generator and everything else which is plugged in. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:12:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, electricity doesn't care whether it is going into our out of an outlet. So people create double male ended cords are home (you can't by them) to back feed their house through an outlet. People tend to call these "Suicide cords", because the male end that isn't plugged into the generator becomes live. If they forget to isolate their breaker panel from the power line, they then energize the power line. If the grid power is then restored, unfun things happen to their generator and everything else which is plugged in. Common sense would suggest you not do that unless, and I still wouldn't, you are controlling all outputs but this world lacks common sense by the droves. Never heard of suicide cords. People are stupid. @Burnsy |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:13:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Common sense would suggest you not do that unless, and I still wouldn't, you are controlling all outputs but this world lacks common sense by the droves. Never heard of suicide cords. People are stupid. @Burnsy It is a physical switch that can only be in one position or the other. It removes the possibility of error. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:17:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thankfully it's pretty hard to actually back-feed the grid, considering you'll trip the breaker on the generator when it tries to power every other customer down the line. Scenarios where it can actually happen have to be exceedingly rare and cases where it actually happens even more so. The excitation current required to bring up a 20MVA power transformer in a Substation is a pretty hefty number . Then trying to bring up the load in a neighborhood, remember nobody has turned off nothing. Good luck with that. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:17:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Straight back feed you are getting the generators voltage and amps.
Back fed thru a transformer you should get some voltage from and some amps. Electricity will bite hard if you give it a path and ground. I am still amazed at the millions of gallons of gasoline pumped without major fires daily. Lots of dumb people but most are afraid of electricity. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:18:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is nothing wrong with feeding your house through your panel, from a generator. People do it all the time. The difference between the right way and wrong way, is the use of a transfer switch. Which disallows backfeeding to the power line and disallows both sources of electricity to be connected at the same time. It is a physical switch that can only be in one position or the other. One source is always on and the other is always off. Still, people are stupid. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:19:19 PM EDT
[#10]
How does some dumb redneck's generator feeding back to the grid, with everyone's left-on lights, electric water heaters, drained capacitors, etc. put any significant amperage on the grid? Pardon my ignorance. I imagine a 1-milisecond zap before the breaker trips, with the loads around the neighborhood soaking up a lot of it.
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:20:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Straight back feed you are getting the generators voltage and amps. Back fed thru a transformer you should get some voltage from and some amps. Electricity will bite hard if you give it a path and ground. I am still amazed at the millions of gallons of gasoline pumped without major fires daily. Lots of dumb people but most are afraid of electricity. Backfeed through a transformer, and you get whatever voltage normally feeds that transformer. It becomes a step-up, instead of a step-down. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:25:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Relieved to read he's not actually dead. Electrocuted = dead. Don't mean to be nitpicky, but you may want to rephrase to shocked or zapped or something. Homeboy got energized and is probably not gonna live. I’ll call this one an electrocution. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:25:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am with you. I was just saying using the suicide cord seems stupid in more than a few ways. Still, people are stupid. This allows the user to feed their panel from a generator using a normal extension cord. The transfer switch is then wired into the breaker panel and you are all set. If the power goes out, fire up the generator, plug in the cord and throw the switch. Safe and easy. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:29:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never knew this was a thing. So people make a male to male cord and feed their panel via generator through an existing outlet or something? By doing so powers anything linked to the panel or am I way off here? Not playing dumb here just trying to fully understand what happened and why. Seems like a bad idea regardless as panels should be a one way system, right? Well, without the proper cut offs etc. @MontstrSp Yes, have seen it lots of times unfortunately. Guys would make a cord that went from the generator with a male end on the other end, and they'd just plug that into an existing dryer/welder outlet in their shop or house. If they remember to switch off their main incoming line at their source, it's at least not going to kill anyone or fry your generator, but you don't have proper current protection on your wires doing it this way. Problem occurs when you plug in your "suicide cord", and then you send power through the line to everything connected to it, and your friendly neighborhood lineman grabs a hold of a downed line that was dead 5 minutes ago....and now he's dead. Proper way, as has been mentioned: an interlock so it's either A or B, one's on, and the other one is off. No chance of backfeeding, or sending line power into your genset. Also, if you're going to use a temporary cord, it should plug into a male, reccessed, covered receptacle that's tied into a small, standaone generator panel that runs the selected circuits you need in an emergency. @burnsy thanks, beat while typing. @vdub90vw. You are correct, thanks Burnsy! |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:39:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does some dumb redneck's generator feeding back to the grid, with everyone's left-on lights, electric water heaters, drained capacitors, etc. put any significant amperage on the grid? Pardon my ignorance. I imagine a 1-milisecond zap before the breaker trips, with the loads around the neighborhood soaking up a lot of it. It's actually pretty easy. Primary and secondaries break. Customer back feed is no longer connected to any secondary load. Single phase feed primary fuse opens, no other transformers on the street. Now the whole primary is hot on one side. Any combination of fuses being open and broken secondaries can do it. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:42:56 PM EDT
[#16]
One problem is that this shouldn't be $500+.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-200-Amp-240-Volt-Non-Fused-Emergency-Power-Transfer-Switch-TC10324R/100150463 I would have put one in my new house if it was $150 like it should be. This 200A breaker box with mains and 5 breakers is under $200 why is the much simpler transfer switch 2.5 times as much?: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-200-Amp-30-Space-60-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Plug-On-Neutral-Load-Center-with-Cover-HOM3060M200PCVP-HOM3060M200PCVP/204836369 |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:49:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct. 240v was backfed into the transformer which energized the line and he got hit with high voltage then. How is this possible? The generator breaker should have tripped instantaneously when it backfed into the grid. Was this some kind of industrial generator? Or some super rural area where no other houses for miles? Seriously. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:49:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One problem is that this shouldn't be $500+. https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-200-Amp-240-Volt-Non-Fused-Emergency-Power-Transfer-Switch-TC10324R/100150463 I would have put one in my new house if it was $150 like it should be. This 200A breaker box with mains and 5 breakers is under $200: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-200-Amp-30-Space-60-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Plug-On-Neutral-Load-Center-with-Cover-HOM3060M200PCVP-HOM3060M200PCVP/204836369 Simple - use an interlock, like we said. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 4:53:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How damn hard is it to turn off the main breaker???  I have a check off procedure, laminated, attached to the cord I use for powering the house....and since I am a retired refinery engineer, a procedure check list is what we lived and could die by if not done correctly...Lock Out Tag Out (LOTO) was taken as serious as confined space entry or H2S training. I have seen a lot of people fired over LOTO violations. When we are making the switch, my procedure calls out for two people to be present, one calling out the steps and signing off when I am done and the last step is to review the procedure again with sign offs before the generator is powered and connected. The same laminated list is hanging on my generator....I can assure you I can do this without any mistakes. Just like we did in the plants. You need to be responsible for your actions or lack there of Bronc |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 5:04:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a check off procedure, laminated, attached to the cord I use for powering the house....and since I am a retired refinery engineer, a procedure check list is what we lived and could die by if not done correctly...Lock Out Tag Out (LOTO) was taken as serious as confined space entry or H2S training. I have seen a lot of people fired over LOTO violations. When we are making the switch, my procedure calls out for two people to be present, one calling out the steps and signing off when I am done and the last step is to review the procedure again with sign offs before the generator is powered and connected. The same laminated list is hanging on my generator....I can assure you I can do this without any mistakes. Just like we did in the plants. You need to be responsible for your actions or lack there of Bronc Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How damn hard is it to turn off the main breaker??? I have a check off procedure, laminated, attached to the cord I use for powering the house....and since I am a retired refinery engineer, a procedure check list is what we lived and could die by if not done correctly...Lock Out Tag Out (LOTO) was taken as serious as confined space entry or H2S training. I have seen a lot of people fired over LOTO violations. When we are making the switch, my procedure calls out for two people to be present, one calling out the steps and signing off when I am done and the last step is to review the procedure again with sign offs before the generator is powered and connected. The same laminated list is hanging on my generator....I can assure you I can do this without any mistakes. Just like we did in the plants. You need to be responsible for your actions or lack there of Bronc Your process cards work great, until they don't. But an actual safety device works every time. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 5:04:33 PM EDT
[#21]
i dont have a lock out switch but i have a power inlet box that is 30 amp cord from generator to 8 outlets inside. its dead unless i run the generator
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Posted: 7/18/2022 5:08:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn that sucks OP. Prayers for your friend. When I'm out on storm restoration that's one of the main things I listen for. We white meter and ground, but a generator firing up makes everyone stop. Absolutely unacceptable by the homeowner, the idiot. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 5:11:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Prayers for your friend.
@FALARAK thanks for that post about interlocks. I bought a 35k running watts generator on Prime day and was going to have a transfer switch installed. Saved me some cash. 
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Posted: 7/18/2022 5:14:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Prayers for your friend. @FALARAK thanks for that post about interlocks. I bought a 35k running watts generator on Prime day and was going to have a transfer switch installed. Saved me some cash. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Today--the-generator-preps-paid-off/5-2426421/ |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 5:25:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is this possible? The generator breaker should have tripped instantaneously when it backfed into the grid. Was this some kind of industrial generator? Or some super rural area where no other houses for miles? Seriously. Now how the neighborhood didn't draw enough 13.8KV amps to trip the genset out, I don't know.... |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 5:34:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of dumb people but most are afraid of electricity. Probably best to keep it that way. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 5:35:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, have seen it lots of times unfortunately. Guys would make a cord that went from the generator with a male end on the other end, and they'd just plug that into an existing dryer/welder outlet in their shop or house. If they remember to switch off their main incoming line at their source, it's at least not going to kill anyone or fry your generator, but you don't have proper current protection on your wires doing it this way. Problem occurs when you plug in your "suicide cord", and then you send power through the line to everything connected to it, and your friendly neighborhood lineman grabs a hold of a downed line that was dead 5 minutes ago....and now he's dead. Proper way, as has been mentioned: an interlock so it's either A or B, one's on, and the other one is off. No chance of backfeeding, or sending line power into your genset. Also, if you're going to use a temporary cord, it should plug into a male, reccessed, covered receptacle that's tied into a small, standaone generator panel that runs the selected circuits you need in an emergency. @burnsy thanks, beat while typing. @vdub90vw. You are correct, thanks Burnsy! I am not anti-transfer switch at all, I think everyone that builds or rewires a house should put one in. I think anyone that doesn't have a strong working knowledge of the topic should never mess with using a generator without a transfer switch, other than plugging appliances directly into it. You can in fact buy pre-made suicide cords, even with free prime delivery from Amazon. There's ~50 electrical linemen a year killed from all causes in the U.S., the vast majority of those had nothing to do with back fed generators. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 5:36:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's actually pretty easy. Primary and secondaries break. Customer back feed is no longer connected to any secondary load. Single phase feed primary fuse opens, no other transformers on the street. Now the whole primary is hot on one side. Any combination of fuses being open and broken secondaries can do it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How does some dumb redneck's generator feeding back to the grid, with everyone's left-on lights, electric water heaters, drained capacitors, etc. put any significant amperage on the grid? Pardon my ignorance. I imagine a 1-milisecond zap before the breaker trips, with the loads around the neighborhood soaking up a lot of it. It's actually pretty easy. Primary and secondaries break. Customer back feed is no longer connected to any secondary load. Single phase feed primary fuse opens, no other transformers on the street. Now the whole primary is hot on one side. Any combination of fuses being open and broken secondaries can do it. Ok I can understand this point, but it still should be worked either grounded to Mother Earth, or be worked as hot . If you got caught up in the open point and go series would be bad. Linemen work a pretty treacherous job , more ways to get killed than not . Bad part is they don’t have to do anything wrong to get killed , and dying isn’t the worst case scenario. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 5:48:46 PM EDT
[#29]
I did not read five pages but we practice deenergize test and ground both sides of when you're working down primary. I've only experienced back feed 4 times in15 years. Scary stuff
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:00:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did not read five pages but we practice deenergize test and ground both sides of when you're working down primary. I've only experienced back feed 4 times in15 years. Scary stuff What was the cause of the back feeds? |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:00:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a check off procedure, laminated, attached to the cord I use for powering the house....and since I am a retired refinery engineer, a procedure check list is what we lived and could die by if not done correctly...Lock Out Tag Out (LOTO) was taken as serious as confined space entry or H2S training. I have seen a lot of people fired over LOTO violations. When we are making the switch, my procedure calls out for two people to be present, one calling out the steps and signing off when I am done and the last step is to review the procedure again with sign offs before the generator is powered and connected. The same laminated list is hanging on my generator....I can assure you I can do this without any mistakes. Just like we did in the plants. You need to be responsible for your actions or lack there of Bronc Why not just comply with the code and use a lockout or transfer switch? I don’t understand people doing work around and assuming risk when there is a simple code approved solution. Using the approved solution protects you from liability and gives you peace of mind if something goes wrong. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:02:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Equipotential is depending on who you work for. Some still bracket ground. No, it depends on what you honestly know about the trade and who is willing to hold themselves and others accountable! Equipotential has been required since 1910.269 was put in place in the early 90's. Linemen developed equipotential grounding decades earlier. While the homeowner bears some responsibility, the lineman, trainers, coworkers and/or leaders of the deceased bear the bulk of the responsibility. For trained linemen this is a known, hazard. Know even before they leave the shop. For trained linemen, work practices exist which completely mitigate the hazard. Let me dig out some FR then flame on! OP, I feel for your friend and the injured man's family and co-workers. The family will never understand, the co-workers have a hell of a weight on their shoulders. Hopefully some good can come of this. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:02:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An interlock and generator inlet receptacle is like $100. No reason not to have one if you are feeding a house with portable genny. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:03:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is nothing wrong with feeding your house through your panel, from a generator. People do it all the time. The difference between the right way and wrong way, is the use of a transfer switch. Which disallows backfeeding to the power line and disallows both sources of electricity to be connected at the same time. It is a physical switch that can only be in one position or the other. It removes the possibility of error. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Common sense would suggest you not do that unless, and I still wouldn't, you are controlling all outputs but this world lacks common sense by the droves. Never heard of suicide cords. People are stupid. @Burnsy It is a physical switch that can only be in one position or the other. It removes the possibility of error. To be clear, your describing an interlock or a lockout, which i use. A transfer switch is like a sub panel that only allows the use of certain circuits. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:21:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was the cause of the back feeds? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I did not read five pages but we practice deenergize test and ground both sides of when you're working down primary. I've only experienced back feed 4 times in15 years. Scary stuff What was the cause of the back feeds? Customers running generators improperly. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:25:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You want the power companies to spend billions of dollars to prevent the rare dumbfuck from back feeding the system? In my neighborhood, every two houses have their own transformer so it would be a least 50 lockouts, if transformer mounted. 100 if mounted on each house. That is a lot of extra up front cost an even more maintenance cost. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah I get that, but how can the power company not have some overriding lockout to account for the unaccounted for homeowner? You want the power companies to spend billions of dollars to prevent the rare dumbfuck from back feeding the system? In my neighborhood, every two houses have their own transformer so it would be a least 50 lockouts, if transformer mounted. 100 if mounted on each house. That is a lot of extra up front cost an even more maintenance cost. I guess I am relating it to what I do in automation. When I go into a robot cell, it is locked out, and nobody can bypass anything. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:29:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll admit it, I haven't used my generator in the 2 years I've had it. I'm afraid that it would be possible foe me to set things wrong. I'd love a review of proper procedures. The electrician wired the box to go to the breaker panel, but no particular safety switch. I bet you could call him and for $100 get piece of mind and some instructions. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:40:59 PM EDT
[#38]
@p3590 say you have a 50 amp outlet on your generator, and have an 8/3 SO cord made up with a 30 amp male dryer plug on the other end. Those 10ga wires SHOULD be protected by the 30 amp breaker now being backfed in the panel; but you still have the weak link in the chain in between a 50a breaker on the genset, a properly sized cord, and an undersized outlet and wire to the panel.
Let's put it this way, some people might feel fine hooking one up this way. I wouldn't. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:51:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: well that's fucked up. They should find the homeowner and slap his dick in the dirt. I assume the 240 backfed to the transformer? |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:53:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nothing but sympathy for your friend. We had a local fellow get hit badly and the recovery was long and hard. I am curious though as to the mechanics of the generator being at fault. I am no lineman or even an electrician but I know they have a lot of risks. I was a lineman for nearly 20 years. It wasn't the generator that was at fault. It was the idiot who was using the generator at fault. If you don't knock your main breaker, when you are using a generator, it doesn't stop at your house and continues going back to the main line. Neighbors. Everywhere else that is on your circuit. After it hits a transformer, it can be boosted (amplified) to many many many hundreds of volts. Transformers and wires work both ways. Either the power company feeding it to you. Or, if you start up a generator and don't stop it, will back feed all the way to the distribution center. I know two TV/Broadband lineman who were injured when their ladder got too close to the main power. One of which was killed instantly. I didn't hear whether the other made it or not. I know another who was hanging a drop line and pulled it into the main power that was going to a different branch. He lived about two weeks in a severe burn unit in philedelphia PA before passing away. What many people don't realize if you survive the initial shock, most times the infection from the decaying skin burns will cause you to set up septis and you die. And if that doesn't kill you short term, often times your organs are damaged and you may die weeks or years later because they're not functioning correctly. 
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:55:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: homeowner is at fault. there will be consequences. i have a whole house generator professionally installed and it part of the install is a switch that cuts connectivity to the transformer before generator starts. what im curious about is for folks that have solar power backfed to grid how is that done to code to prevent issues like this? |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:57:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Stupid homeowner should be prosecuted to the full extent and use as an example to everyone else. He should also have to give the lineman everything he owns, pay all his medical care and pay the lineman whatever he made a week for the rest of his life
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Posted: 7/18/2022 6:58:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a check off procedure, laminated, attached to the cord I use for powering the house....and since I am a retired refinery engineer, a procedure check list is what we lived and could die by if not done correctly...Lock Out Tag Out (LOTO) was taken as serious as confined space entry or H2S training. I have seen a lot of people fired over LOTO violations. When we are making the switch, my procedure calls out for two people to be present, one calling out the steps and signing off when I am done and the last step is to review the procedure again with sign offs before the generator is powered and connected. The same laminated list is hanging on my generator....I can assure you I can do this without any mistakes. Just like we did in the plants. You need to be responsible for your actions or lack there of Bronc Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How damn hard is it to turn off the main breaker??? I have a check off procedure, laminated, attached to the cord I use for powering the house....and since I am a retired refinery engineer, a procedure check list is what we lived and could die by if not done correctly...Lock Out Tag Out (LOTO) was taken as serious as confined space entry or H2S training. I have seen a lot of people fired over LOTO violations. When we are making the switch, my procedure calls out for two people to be present, one calling out the steps and signing off when I am done and the last step is to review the procedure again with sign offs before the generator is powered and connected. The same laminated list is hanging on my generator....I can assure you I can do this without any mistakes. Just like we did in the plants. You need to be responsible for your actions or lack there of Bronc Your method is one of the weakest controls. In electrical work, admin controls suck.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 7:08:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Automatic transfer switches can fail. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: homeowner is at fault. there will be consequences. i have a whole house generator professionally installed and it part of the install is a switch that cuts connectivity to the transformer before generator starts. what im curious about is for folks that have solar power backfed to grid how is that done to code to prevent issues like this? Does an ATS fail such that the genny can back feed the line? |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 7:09:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Friend of a friend is a lineman of 20 years. Last night he was working on a high voltage line that was de-energized. His leg hit or got close to a line and he was electrocuted. He has second and third degree burns and is still alive but the damage is severe. The line was energized due to a homeowner backfeeding their generator into the grid. The dude has a wife and kids. Even if he makes it he'll never be the same. Will add links if the incident makes the news. I'm posting this because there are many DIY'ers on this forum and the topic of generators comes up frequently. ... People who do not turn off the mains breaker and/or the outside breaker who run generators into their panels should be criminally negligent. If you have the chops to hook a generator to an circuit breaker box for your whole hose, it's reasonable to expect you to know the power goes to all circuits you have turned on. That includes the power line coming into the house. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 7:10:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No shit, but that is not what the asshole home owners are thinking of at the time. They are focused on getting the power back on, then they worry about back feeding. Why this happens. You should be able to find your box in the dark with no light and the mains breaker is the big one. Turn it off FIRST. There are no excuses. 
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Posted: 7/18/2022 7:16:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn, sorry to hear that. I don't know why they can't put something into the meter at the house, that when the incoming line drops out, it disconnects the house from feeding back. Doesn't seem to me that would be that hard to do and would protect the linemen from this asshat shit. Make so that if someone tries to feed back, it trips and they have to have the utility come re-start it--and fine them a couple of hundred dollars. They do. It's called a transfer switch. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 7:30:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm the only house served by the transformer on the pole nearest my house. If I back feed 240 to the transformer, it steps it up to whatever distro voltage is..13,800 volts for example. My 10 KW genset was making 42 amps @240 volt, now it's less than 1 @ 13.8, but it only takes 50mw across your chest to stop your heart, and 13.8 likes to jump gaps. Now how the neighborhood didn't draw enough 13.8KV amps to trip the genset out, I don't know.... Probably power shutoff at the feed for the line before the workman and like you not many houses on that line. Any that were may have had their interlocks/transfer switch engaged. |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 7:33:09 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately some people are too stupid to throw the service disconnect and only the transfer switch. Too bad the line power was not restored and frag his generator. and the rest of his shit |
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Posted: 7/18/2022 7:35:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the whole point of a transfer switch, there is no chance. It is physically disconnected, transferred from one to the other. It cannot be both at the same time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you leave the main breaker on? I have 2 transfer boxes since I have circuits in 2 200 amp panels that are powered by the generator. Both mains are off before the genset goes online. If power comes back on at night I'll know because the security light outside will come on, if it's middle of the day I hope my neighbors will call me and tell me to shut off the damn noisy generator. The co-op guys have let me know before the last leg that comes down my road is energized a couple of times. I won't leave the main breakers on for anything, I'd rather burn up more fuel than take a chance. Thus fail safe (idiot proof) |
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