User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 11:41:42 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't like talking to civilians about my military experience. In fact, my co-workers only found out that I was in the Army and in Iraq twice because my boss told them. Otherwise I'd of not said a God damn thing. Otherwise, if I'm with BTDT guys, I'll not feel shy at all about talking about any of my experiences. I guess it's one of those things that unless you've been "bloodied", you're not part of the fraternity type thing. And plus, I just feel like it's trying to explain color to a blind man. I think this clip has always summed it up best for me I guess. 
 http://youtu.be/WsyVRpW4xNk?t=26s
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess I'll never get the part about people asking .mil guys if they killed someone. I know lots of .mil guys and that's the one question I've never asked. Asked tons of others but not that one. I don't like talking to civilians about my military experience. In fact, my co-workers only found out that I was in the Army and in Iraq twice because my boss told them. Otherwise I'd of not said a God damn thing. Otherwise, if I'm with BTDT guys, I'll not feel shy at all about talking about any of my experiences. I guess it's one of those things that unless you've been "bloodied", you're not part of the fraternity type thing. And plus, I just feel like it's trying to explain color to a blind man. I think this clip has always summed it up best for me I guess.
http://youtu.be/WsyVRpW4xNk?t=26s
Not all of us are complete idiots  when talking to "you guys"  . Several guys have opened up to me about stuff just because I kept my mouth shut, but I get the whole you weren't there you wouldn't understand side.
Kind of like explaining a kid being born to someone who had never been in a delivery room. You weren't there man, the things I seen 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 11:43:52 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More like an anachronism. They literally did body counts in Vietnam and reported enemy kills as probables and confirmed. Under Westmorland it was a key metric for measuring progress in the war. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whats a confirmed kill? A movie-ism. More like an anachronism. They literally did body counts in Vietnam and reported enemy kills as probables and confirmed. Under Westmorland it was a key metric for measuring progress in the war. Indeed. And a great number of those body counts were pure speculation and utter bullshit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 11:48:01 AM EDT
[#3]
OP's username is most appropriate here.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 12:12:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't like talking to civilians about my military experience. In fact, my co-workers only found out that I was in the Army and in Iraq twice because my boss told them. Otherwise I'd of not said a God damn thing. Otherwise, if I'm with BTDT guys, I'll not feel shy at all about talking about any of my experiences. I guess it's one of those things that unless you've been "bloodied", you're not part of the fraternity type thing. And plus, I just feel like it's trying to explain color to a blind man. I think this clip has always summed it up best for me I guess.
http://youtu.be/WsyVRpW4xNk?t=26s
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess I'll never get the part about people asking .mil guys if they killed someone. I know lots of .mil guys and that's the one question I've never asked. Asked tons of others but not that one. I don't like talking to civilians about my military experience. In fact, my co-workers only found out that I was in the Army and in Iraq twice because my boss told them. Otherwise I'd of not said a God damn thing. Otherwise, if I'm with BTDT guys, I'll not feel shy at all about talking about any of my experiences. I guess it's one of those things that unless you've been "bloodied", you're not part of the fraternity type thing. And plus, I just feel like it's trying to explain color to a blind man. I think this clip has always summed it up best for me I guess.
http://youtu.be/WsyVRpW4xNk?t=26s
Seems perfectly reasonable to me. I have a good friend who was SF in the Army and I've never asked him to give details. He will volunteer some information but it's obvious he just wants to hang with the guys so we don't ask questions as that seems inappropriate. I'm sure he has a different relationship/friendship with the guys he served with and that's completely understandable. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 12:25:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Indeed. And a great number of those body counts were pure speculation and utter bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Whats a confirmed kill? A movie-ism. More like an anachronism. They literally did body counts in Vietnam and reported enemy kills as probables and confirmed. Under Westmorland it was a key metric for measuring progress in the war. Indeed. And a great number of those body counts were pure speculation and utter bullshit. In the government stupidity, like shit, flows down hill. Robert McNamara insisted on numbers for lots of things as a way to measure "progress". Gen. Westmoreland gave him body counts as one way to supply his desire. The number of villages which had been "pacified" was another. Commanders down the line were required to supply numbers. In turn, they pressed subordinates for numbers. The man at the bottom of the chain did exactly what anyone with experience would expect. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 12:34:54 PM EDT
[#6]
A 1LT was using a tracer mag to walk his DM onto a dude running up a mountain and before they could pinpoint his location the LT burned one into his back. It was the other side of the river so we didn't do SSE on the body to confirm he was dead, but he was either really dead or the best faker out there because he didn't move for 3 days while we stayed there.
Lased at 780 meters. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:05:45 PM EDT
[#7]
As has been said, the whole 'confirmed kill' thing originated in Vietnam.
Maybe not at the very beginning but definitely later on in the war, snipers were required to inspect the body and complete a 'kill sheet' that had all sorts of blanks that could only be filled in if you physically inspected the body. Complete one, send it in, and you have a 'confirmed kill'. Otherwise, it was a probable, even if they were DRT and rotted outside the wire for a few days. Believe that comes from Dear Mom: A Sniper's Vietnam by Joseph Ward. I don't think Hathcock had to as he was relatively early in the war and sorta worked in an 'experimental' capacity. Craig Roberts doesn't mention it in The Walking Dead either but he was early in the war too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:15:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the government stupidity, like shit, flows down hill. Robert McNamara insisted on numbers for lots of things as a way to measure "progress". Gen. Westmoreland gave him body counts as one way to supply his desire. The number of villages which had been "pacified" was another. Commanders down the line were required to supply numbers. In turn, they pressed subordinates for numbers. The man at the bottom of the chain did exactly what anyone with experience would expect. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whats a confirmed kill? A movie-ism. More like an anachronism. They literally did body counts in Vietnam and reported enemy kills as probables and confirmed. Under Westmorland it was a key metric for measuring progress in the war. Indeed. And a great number of those body counts were pure speculation and utter bullshit. In the government stupidity, like shit, flows down hill. Robert McNamara insisted on numbers for lots of things as a way to measure "progress". Gen. Westmoreland gave him body counts as one way to supply his desire. The number of villages which had been "pacified" was another. Commanders down the line were required to supply numbers. In turn, they pressed subordinates for numbers. The man at the bottom of the chain did exactly what anyone with experience would expect. I have no doubt.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:17:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 1LT was using a tracer mag to walk his DM onto a dude running up a mountain and before they could pinpoint his location the LT burned one into his back. It was the other side of the river so we didn't do SSE on the body to confirm he was dead, but he was either really dead or the best faker out there because he didn't move for 3 days while we stayed there. Lased at 780 meters. Sounds like he died of natural causes.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:20:23 PM EDT
[#10]
I did a guy on Laos once...from a thousand yards....
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:21:52 PM EDT
[#11]
I hit steel with one using a Aimpoint M4S at 700M in AZ
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:23:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats a confirmed kill? Something that only one kid on your block can have |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:24:20 PM EDT
[#13]
What DA form is used to confirm a kill? I've always wanted to know.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:32:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
500m for the branches that can shoot
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
On Army ranges, pop ups get killed at 300M on a regular basis.  500m for the branches that can shoot
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:34:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 1LT was using a tracer mag to walk his DM onto a dude running up a mountain and before they could pinpoint his location the LT burned one into his back. It was the other side of the river so we didn't do SSE on the body to confirm he was dead, but he was either really dead or the best faker out there because he didn't move for 3 days while we stayed there. Lased at 780 meters.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:34:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What DA form is used to confirm a kill? I've always wanted to know. 4187 |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:35:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did a guy on Laos once...from a thousand yards.... In high wind? Only about eight or ten guys in the world could have made that shot....
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:36:22 PM EDT
[#18]
87 meters. Next question.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:36:40 PM EDT
[#19]
It's hard as hell hitting steel past 1000m with MK262 and a 20" barrel in even the slightest breeze. I'm guessing were aren't going to hear many reports of hits past 800 with an M4.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:37:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A 1LT was using a tracer mag to walk his DM onto a dude running up a mountain and before they could pinpoint his location the LT burned one into his back. It was the other side of the river so we didn't do SSE on the body to confirm he was dead, but he was either really dead or the best faker out there because he didn't move for 3 days while we stayed there. Lased at 780 meters. So you did not physically confirm the kill...?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:39:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like he died of natural causes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A 1LT was using a tracer mag to walk his DM onto a dude running up a mountain and before they could pinpoint his location the LT burned one into his back. It was the other side of the river so we didn't do SSE on the body to confirm he was dead, but he was either really dead or the best faker out there because he didn't move for 3 days while we stayed there. Lased at 780 meters. Sounds like he died of natural causes. Sounds like a lucky accident - well, not for the taliwhacker. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:48:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Soldiers and Marines in combat don't really spend a lot of time "confirming" kills or precisely measuring off distances when they are sure they (and they alone) shot someone. There's no Boone and Crockett Club. Any claim would be a claim. "Gee Joe, that guy shooting had to be 750 meters away when you fired that single shot that apparently killed him while all the rest of us just sat on our hands, unsure of what to do! I'm glad the whole convoy didn't unload on him with SAWs, machine guns, grenade launchers and massed rifle fire so you get that record!" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe a silly question but I wondering if anyone has any numbers on the furthest confirmed kill with a standard issue M4? Soldiers and Marines in combat don't really spend a lot of time "confirming" kills or precisely measuring off distances when they are sure they (and they alone) shot someone. There's no Boone and Crockett Club. Any claim would be a claim. "Gee Joe, that guy shooting had to be 750 meters away when you fired that single shot that apparently killed him while all the rest of us just sat on our hands, unsure of what to do! I'm glad the whole convoy didn't unload on him with SAWs, machine guns, grenade launchers and massed rifle fire so you get that record!" For some reason, the "Boone and Crockett Club" comment made me chuckle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:50:15 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A 1LT was using a tracer mag to walk his DM onto a dude running up a mountain and before they could pinpoint his location the LT burned one into his back. It was the other side of the river so we didn't do SSE on the body to confirm he was dead, but he was either really dead or the best faker out there because he didn't move for 3 days while we stayed there. Lased at 780 meters. Doing God's work. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 1:55:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In high wind? Only about eight or ten guys in the world could have made that shot.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I did a guy on Laos once...from a thousand yards.... In high wind? Only about eight or ten guys in the world could have made that shot.... YES!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 2:01:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know of 740 meter hit that caused the death of a Taliban with BLT 1/6 in 04 with an M4. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hitting pop ups at 800m with an acog was easy enough. Ild be impressed with anything even half that distance on a moving shooting and cover utilizing enemy. I know of 740 meter hit that caused the death of a Taliban with BLT 1/6 in 04 with an M4. I personally dropped a dude with an M4/ACOG/M855 at about 600M. Terp and 203 gunner both called it. Now, I never recovered the body so I don't know if I hit him or not with that shot. But I was the only one shooting in that direction and the terp had my binos. Used a grip pod and was obviously in the prone. No wind and a scoped ACOG from a good rest is a damned capable platform. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 2:22:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't like talking to civilians about my military experience. In fact, my co-workers only found out that I was in the Army and in Iraq twice because my boss told them. Otherwise I'd of not said a God damn thing. Otherwise, if I'm with BTDT guys, I'll not feel shy at all about talking about any of my experiences. I guess it's one of those things that unless you've been "bloodied", you're not part of the fraternity type thing. And plus, I just feel like it's trying to explain color to a blind man. I think this clip has always summed it up best for me I guess.
http://youtu.be/WsyVRpW4xNk?t=26s
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess I'll never get the part about people asking .mil guys if they killed someone. I know lots of .mil guys and that's the one question I've never asked. Asked tons of others but not that one. I don't like talking to civilians about my military experience. In fact, my co-workers only found out that I was in the Army and in Iraq twice because my boss told them. Otherwise I'd of not said a God damn thing. Otherwise, if I'm with BTDT guys, I'll not feel shy at all about talking about any of my experiences. I guess it's one of those things that unless you've been "bloodied", you're not part of the fraternity type thing. And plus, I just feel like it's trying to explain color to a blind man. I think this clip has always summed it up best for me I guess.
http://youtu.be/WsyVRpW4xNk?t=26s
Thank you all for your service. There are those of us out there that wish we would have served, but didn't for a variety of reasons, and are no longer eligible to serve. Talking to guys that have served and expressing our gratitude is as close as we'll ever come to actually doing that. I know you guys don't do it for the glory, but sometimes us normal folks look at you all as heroes, and in turn want to talk to you. And sometimes its a little awkward, since we really don't know the right things to say, how to ask it, etc. I do agree that the "have you killed anyone" question is clearly out of bounds, and probably something that everyone wants to ask (natural curiosity) but not everyone knows not to ask it. A family friend is a Purple Heart recipient from Vietnam and was in some pretty intense combat. He was the principal at one of the local middle schools and you wouldn't know he was a veteran. He didn't talk about it much when I was younger, but in the last 10 years or so has started talking more after he retired. He speaks at a lot of schools and other civic groups. One of his opening remarks is that people can ask him anything they want about his service...except if he ever killed anyone. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 2:26:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Semper Fi Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
On Army ranges, pop ups get killed at 300M on a regular basis. 500m for the branches that can shoot
Semper Fi Semper fi |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 2:27:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I personally dropped a dude with an M4/ACOG/M855 at about 600M. Terp and 203 gunner both called it. Now, I never recovered the body so I don't know if I hit him or not with that shot. But I was the only one shooting in that direction and the terp had my binos. Used a grip pod and was obviously in the prone. No wind and a scoped ACOG from a good rest is a damned capable platform. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hitting pop ups at 800m with an acog was easy enough. Ild be impressed with anything even half that distance on a moving shooting and cover utilizing enemy. I know of 740 meter hit that caused the death of a Taliban with BLT 1/6 in 04 with an M4. I personally dropped a dude with an M4/ACOG/M855 at about 600M. Terp and 203 gunner both called it. Now, I never recovered the body so I don't know if I hit him or not with that shot. But I was the only one shooting in that direction and the terp had my binos. Used a grip pod and was obviously in the prone. No wind and a scoped ACOG from a good rest is a damned capable platform. Unsuppressed I assume? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 3:10:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unsuppressed I assume? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hitting pop ups at 800m with an acog was easy enough. Ild be impressed with anything even half that distance on a moving shooting and cover utilizing enemy. I know of 740 meter hit that caused the death of a Taliban with BLT 1/6 in 04 with an M4. I personally dropped a dude with an M4/ACOG/M855 at about 600M. Terp and 203 gunner both called it. Now, I never recovered the body so I don't know if I hit him or not with that shot. But I was the only one shooting in that direction and the terp had my binos. Used a grip pod and was obviously in the prone. No wind and a scoped ACOG from a good rest is a damned capable platform. Unsuppressed I assume? of course. I'm not cool. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 3:13:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: of course. I'm not cool. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hitting pop ups at 800m with an acog was easy enough. Ild be impressed with anything even half that distance on a moving shooting and cover utilizing enemy. I know of 740 meter hit that caused the death of a Taliban with BLT 1/6 in 04 with an M4. I personally dropped a dude with an M4/ACOG/M855 at about 600M. Terp and 203 gunner both called it. Now, I never recovered the body so I don't know if I hit him or not with that shot. But I was the only one shooting in that direction and the terp had my binos. Used a grip pod and was obviously in the prone. No wind and a scoped ACOG from a good rest is a damned capable platform. Unsuppressed I assume? of course. I'm not cool. You don't fool me, Bro Sylvan. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 3:15:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't fool me, Bro Sylvan. I am a national guard infantryman who commanded a training regiment. seriously. I couldn't get any uncooler. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 3:18:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am a national guard infantryman who commanded a training regiment. seriously. I couldn't get any uncooler. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You don't fool me, Bro Sylvan. I am a national guard infantryman who commanded a training regiment. seriously. I couldn't get any uncooler. Coolness should not be a measure of one's SSI, but rather a gauge in one's experience and know-how. Plus, last I checked, 19th and 20th were NG. But I believe you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 3:42:45 PM EDT
[#33]
I actually served in the Army's "Confirmed kill" unit, until they did away with it.
It would usually go like this; We'd be sitting in the DFAC with the EOD guys having breakfast and the call would come over the radio that a unit needed a confirmation and measurement of a confirmed kill, so at that point we'd get ready to roll out. We'd finish LUNCH then get to the ten digit of where the lethal shot was fired. At this point, it was absolutely pertinent that the soldier who fired the deadly shot NOT MOVE FROM WHERE HE FIRED THE SHOT. We then would spray paint a circle around his position, Toe to heel both feet, then through a series of complicated mathematical calculations, find the exact center of where he was standing. Then we drive a stake into that point on the ground, and THEN the soldier was free to move about. Now comes the measuring tape. We'd usually get the cherry to hold the end of the tape as we would make our way to the possible "Kill", spray paint a circle around his position, head to feet, then through a series of complicated mathematical calculations, find the exact center of where he was killed. Then we drive a stake into that point on the body. This is how we confirm the kill. EOD has usually found us by this time, just in time to turn around and head back for dinner. After all this, we enter the data into the National Confirmed Kill Data Base, and higher should have access to these records for your official love me book. The certificate is a picture of a bull taking a dump. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 3:56:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am a national guard infantryman who commanded a training regiment. seriously. I couldn't get any uncooler. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You don't fool me, Bro Sylvan. I am a national guard infantryman who commanded a training regiment. seriously. I couldn't get any uncooler. You could have been OIC of the BDOC. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 4:06:07 PM EDT
[#35]
I got a kill at 300m with MILES in Israel
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 4:17:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I actually served in the Army's "Confirmed kill" unit, until they did away with it. It would usually go like this; We'd be sitting in the DFAC with the EOD guys having breakfast and the call would come over the radio that a unit needed a confirmation and measurement of a confirmed kill, so at that point we'd get ready to roll out. We'd finish LUNCH then get to the ten digit of where the lethal shot was fired. At this point, it was absolutely pertinent that the soldier who fired the deadly shot NOT MOVE FROM WHERE HE FIRED THE SHOT. We then would spray paint a circle around his position, Toe to heel both feet, then through a series of complicated mathematical calculations, find the exact center of where he was standing. Then we drive a stake into that point on the ground, and THEN the soldier was free to move about. Now comes the measuring tape. We'd usually get the cherry to hold the end of the tape as we would make our way to the possible "Kill", spray paint a circle around his position, head to feet, then through a series of complicated mathematical calculations, find the exact center of where he was killed. Then we drive a stake into that point on the body. This is how we confirm the kill. EOD has usually found us by this time, just in time to turn around and head back for dinner. After all this, we enter the data into the National Confirmed Kill Data Base, and higher should have access to these records for your official love me book. The certificate is a picture of a bull taking a dump. lol |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 6:34:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats a confirmed kill? A game mode in Call Of Duty. The only person I can see asking this question (O.P.s about "confirmed kill") is either a 16yr old or a poge with mall ninja dreams. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 6:37:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A game mode in Call Of Duty. The only person I can see asking this question (O.P.s about "confirmed kill") is either a 16yr old or a poge with mall ninja dreams. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whats a confirmed kill? A game mode in Call Of Duty. The only person I can see asking this question (O.P.s about "confirmed kill") is either a 16yr old or a poge with mall ninja dreams. Or someone who just read a book/saw a movie about a seal. I don't know of anybody who actually uses that term except when they are talking about snipers. but i have never heard an actual sniper talk about it that way. whatever. I ignored the term and kind of focused on the technical nature of the question. ETA 
The forward is from Marcus Lutrell. You know this shits legit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 6:47:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A movie-ism. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whats a confirmed kill? A movie-ism. Glover: "Your longer shots were never confirmed." Wahlberg: "That's because long shots generally go places you wouldn't wanna have to go afterwards to confirm them. Confirmation's a desk pogue's job." |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 11:19:19 PM EDT
[#40]
There are instances in combat where an EKIA is confirmed by an outside source, whether humint, sigint, isr, etc...
But very rarely is a single individual given the credit, it is always a team, squad, platoon, company designation if at all. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 11:21:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or someone who just read a book/saw a movie about a seal. I don't know of anybody who actually uses that term except when they are talking about snipers. but i have never heard an actual sniper talk about it that way. whatever. I ignored the term and kind of focused on the technical nature of the question. ETA http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/97/80/06/20/82/9780062082350_500X500.jpg The forward is from Marcus Lutrell. You know this shits legit. Never saw the movie or read the book, but all the snipers I know work in teams and generally don't claim kills as their own. Does the book or movie mention his spotter or teammates? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2015 11:30:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Maybe a silly question but I wondering if anyone has any numbers on the furthest confirmed kill with a standard issue M4? what the fuck is a "confirmed kill" 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2015 12:34:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never saw the movie or read the book, but all the snipers I know work in teams and generally don't claim kills as their own. Does the book or movie mention his spotter or teammates? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Or someone who just read a book/saw a movie about a seal. I don't know of anybody who actually uses that term except when they are talking about snipers. but i have never heard an actual sniper talk about it that way. whatever. I ignored the term and kind of focused on the technical nature of the question. ETA http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/97/80/06/20/82/9780062082350_500X500.jpg The forward is from Marcus Lutrell. You know this shits legit. Never saw the movie or read the book, but all the snipers I know work in teams and generally don't claim kills as their own. Does the book or movie mention his spotter or teammates? Haven't yet seen the film, but I don't recall a spotter's name being mentioned. I could be wrong though. And I think attributing all these "confirmed" EKIAs to a sole shooter is a mechanism to wow laymen civilians and assign it some sort of worth. [shrugs] |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2015 12:47:01 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For some reason, the "Boone and Crockett Club" comment made me chuckle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe a silly question but I wondering if anyone has any numbers on the furthest confirmed kill with a standard issue M4? Soldiers and Marines in combat don't really spend a lot of time "confirming" kills or precisely measuring off distances when they are sure they (and they alone) shot someone. There's no Boone and Crockett Club. Any claim would be a claim. "Gee Joe, that guy shooting had to be 750 meters away when you fired that single shot that apparently killed him while all the rest of us just sat on our hands, unsure of what to do! I'm glad the whole convoy didn't unload on him with SAWs, machine guns, grenade launchers and massed rifle fire so you get that record!" For some reason, the "Boone and Crockett Club" comment made me chuckle. Me too. Just imagining a sniper in the field with a tape measure..... |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2015 12:47:38 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The same with Carlos Hathcock? You'd be suprised at what a modern sniper/ DM carry on them such as a lazor range finder and shit like that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"Confirmed kill" is a fucking hollywood bullshit thing that is made up. There is no such thing in the military. Unless it's just a informal "Hey my buddy saw me shoot my rifle and watched my bullet drop a bad guy" kind of thing. I want to kick puppies when people ask about "what's the longest confirmed killed?".
So what is the official military wording? Chris Kyle is the deadliest sniper in American history. How would they know that unless they confirmed his kills? He was selling a damn book. And alot of his shit is nebulous and sketchy. ETA: And his fellow SEALs aren't going to call him out and a liar. Why? Because he's a real SEAL and his stories just add further mystique and legendary status to them. So it's a win/win for them. The same with Carlos Hathcock? You'd be suprised at what a modern sniper/ DM carry on them such as a lazor range finder and shit like that. Of course a modern sniper will carry different equipment. Vietnam was 40+years ago. Technology changes.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2015 1:32:17 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did a guy on Laos once...from a thousand yards.... What was the wind like? ETA: Beat.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2015 11:01:47 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never saw the movie or read the book, but all the snipers I know work in teams and generally don't claim kills as their own. Does the book or movie mention his spotter or teammates? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Or someone who just read a book/saw a movie about a seal. I don't know of anybody who actually uses that term except when they are talking about snipers. but i have never heard an actual sniper talk about it that way. whatever. I ignored the term and kind of focused on the technical nature of the question. ETA http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/97/80/06/20/82/9780062082350_500X500.jpg The forward is from Marcus Lutrell. You know this shits legit. Never saw the movie or read the book, but all the snipers I know work in teams and generally don't claim kills as their own. Does the book or movie mention his spotter or teammates? No idea. never seen or read them. I saw act of valor. I think that pretty much covers all seal movies. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2015 11:08:15 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No idea. never seen or read them. I saw act of valor. I think that pretty much covers all seal movies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or someone who just read a book/saw a movie about a seal. I don't know of anybody who actually uses that term except when they are talking about snipers. but i have never heard an actual sniper talk about it that way. whatever. I ignored the term and kind of focused on the technical nature of the question. ETA http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/97/80/06/20/82/9780062082350_500X500.jpg The forward is from Marcus Lutrell. You know this shits legit. Never saw the movie or read the book, but all the snipers I know work in teams and generally don't claim kills as their own. Does the book or movie mention his spotter or teammates? No idea. never seen or read them. I saw act of valor. I think that pretty much covers all seal movies. The SEALs I know said they transition from sniper-spotter teams to singles sniper or sniper-sniper teams at the beginning of the GWOT; they said they could not afford to have only 1 guy on the gun at the time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2015 11:10:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The SEALs I know said they transition from sniper-spotter teams to singles sniper or sniper-sniper teams at the beginning of the GWOT; they said they could not afford to have only 1 guy on the gun at the time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or someone who just read a book/saw a movie about a seal. I don't know of anybody who actually uses that term except when they are talking about snipers. but i have never heard an actual sniper talk about it that way. whatever. I ignored the term and kind of focused on the technical nature of the question. ETA http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/97/80/06/20/82/9780062082350_500X500.jpg The forward is from Marcus Lutrell. You know this shits legit. Never saw the movie or read the book, but all the snipers I know work in teams and generally don't claim kills as their own. Does the book or movie mention his spotter or teammates? No idea. never seen or read them. I saw act of valor. I think that pretty much covers all seal movies. The SEALs I know said they transition from sniper-spotter teams to singles sniper or sniper-sniper teams at the beginning of the GWOT; they said they could not afford to have only 1 guy on the gun at the time. 1 seal is worth 2 marines. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2015 11:11:06 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 1LT was using a tracer mag to walk his DM onto a dude running up a mountain and before they could pinpoint his location the LT burned one into his back. It was the other side of the river so we didn't do SSE on the body to confirm he was dead, but he was either really dead or the best faker out there because he didn't move for 3 days while we stayed there. Lased at 780 meters. Close friend of my in 10th Group said he witnessed the CCT (or JTAC?) attached to his team hit a guy lazed at 800+ meters with his SCAR-17. Said it was a heck of a shot. But again... No "confirmed kill" award given. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
