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Posted: 1/4/2015 11:13:14 AM EDT
[#1]
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1 seal is worth 2 marines. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Or someone who just read a book/saw a movie about a seal. I don't know of anybody who actually uses that term except when they are talking about snipers. but i have never heard an actual sniper talk about it that way. whatever. I ignored the term and kind of focused on the technical nature of the question. ETA http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/97/80/06/20/82/9780062082350_500X500.jpg The forward is from Marcus Lutrell. You know this shits legit. Never saw the movie or read the book, but all the snipers I know work in teams and generally don't claim kills as their own. Does the book or movie mention his spotter or teammates? No idea. never seen or read them. I saw act of valor. I think that pretty much covers all seal movies. The SEALs I know said they transition from sniper-spotter teams to singles sniper or sniper-sniper teams at the beginning of the GWOT; they said they could not afford to have only 1 guy on the gun at the time. 1 seal is worth 2 marines. The younger ones tend to think so; we provide their SMU with their fires personnel and it is always and interesting time working with them. You get some Plts that want their JTAC to stay in the COC and watch via feed and some take their JTAC with them. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 11:16:08 AM EDT
[#2]
IIRC we talked about it briefly when I was in STA.
I'll see if I can find it in my notes. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 11:17:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Longest shots I've seen with M4s were during LRM at benning. Most of us had A4s for training. But a couple of the guys from bat had M4s with ACOGs, they were hitting steel at 600-650.
"Confirmed kill" makes me cringe when I hear it |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 11:32:29 AM EDT
[#4]
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1 seal is worth 2 marines. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Or someone who just read a book/saw a movie about a seal. I don't know of anybody who actually uses that term except when they are talking about snipers. but i have never heard an actual sniper talk about it that way. whatever. I ignored the term and kind of focused on the technical nature of the question. ETA http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/97/80/06/20/82/9780062082350_500X500.jpg The forward is from Marcus Lutrell. You know this shits legit. Never saw the movie or read the book, but all the snipers I know work in teams and generally don't claim kills as their own. Does the book or movie mention his spotter or teammates? No idea. never seen or read them. I saw act of valor. I think that pretty much covers all seal movies. The SEALs I know said they transition from sniper-spotter teams to singles sniper or sniper-sniper teams at the beginning of the GWOT; they said they could not afford to have only 1 guy on the gun at the time. 1 seal is worth 2 marines. Financially, sure. Special pay and fast promotions are awesome. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 11:34:24 AM EDT
[#5]
Technically couldn't the Dept. of the Navy double the size of the Marines if it shit canned the SEALS budget and put it to the USMC?
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Posted: 1/4/2015 11:52:26 AM EDT
[#6]
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500m for the branches that can shoot 
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On Army ranges, pop ups get killed at 300M on a regular basis.  500m for the branches that can shoot
or 850 when you're out with the AMU on the SAW range 
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Posted: 1/4/2015 11:56:07 AM EDT
[#7]
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Technically couldn't the Dept. of the Navy double the size of the Marines if it shit canned the SEALS budget and put it to the USMC? That sounds conservative. They'd probably be able to do that on the SEALs' Nair/Oakleys budget alone. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 11:57:21 AM EDT
[#8]
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That sounds conservative. They'd probably be able to do that on the SEALs' Nair/Oakleys budget alone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Technically couldn't the Dept. of the Navy double the size of the Marines if it shit canned the SEALS budget and put it to the USMC? That sounds conservative. They'd probably be able to do that on the SEALs' Nair/Oakleys budget alone. Doesn't DoN get 10% of all book deals and movie deals in lieu of prosecution for violating NDAs? Thats 40 billion a year right there. Plus tapco endorsements. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 11:57:50 AM EDT
[#9]
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Technically couldn't the Dept. of the Navy double the size of the Marines if it shit canned the SEALS budget and put it to the USMC? Service size is set through two processes, first is authorization and the second through appropriation. Congress sometimes authorizes an end strength larger than it appropriates for, this will cause the Dept to go back to Congress to request reprogramming authority to allow other funds to be applies to PMC funds. The 2013 NDAA was a perfect case of this occurring; Congress directed through authorizations a growth in the Marine Corps of 1000 specifically to grow the MSG program. However no money was appropriated to do the increase which amounted to almost a billion of the FYDP. So DOD had to reprogram significant money to give the Marines both PMC pay for the people, O&M to pay for the gear and PANMC to pay for the ammo. Bottom line is the SECNAV would need to go to Congress to get both authorities. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 11:59:27 AM EDT
[#10]
I kill paper at 25 yards when i qual
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I know of 740 meter hit that caused the death of a Taliban with BLT 1/6 in 04 with an M4. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hitting pop ups at 800m with an acog was easy enough. Ild be impressed with anything even half that distance on a moving shooting and cover utilizing enemy. I know of 740 meter hit that caused the death of a Taliban with BLT 1/6 in 04 with an M4. Now I want a BLT |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:00:02 PM EDT
[#11]
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I kill paper at 25 yards when i qual Now I want a BLT Quote HistoryQuoted:
I kill paper at 25 yards when i qual Quoted:
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Hitting pop ups at 800m with an acog was easy enough. Ild be impressed with anything even half that distance on a moving shooting and cover utilizing enemy. I know of 740 meter hit that caused the death of a Taliban with BLT 1/6 in 04 with an M4. Now I want a BLT BLTs are huge |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:01:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Service size is set through two processes, first is authorization and the second through appropriation. Congress sometimes authorizes an end strength larger than it appropriates for, this will cause the Dept to go back to Congress to request reprogramming authority to allow other funds to be applies to PMC funds. The 2013 NDAA was a perfect case of this occurring; Congress directed through authorizations a growth in the Marine Corps of 1000 specifically to grow the MSG program. However no money was appropriated to do the increase which amounted to almost a billion of the FYDP. So DOD had to reprogram significant money to give the Marines both PMC pay for the people, O&M to pay for the gear and PANMC to pay for the ammo. Bottom line is the SECNAV would need to go to Congress to get both authorities. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Technically couldn't the Dept. of the Navy double the size of the Marines if it shit canned the SEALS budget and put it to the USMC? Service size is set through two processes, first is authorization and the second through appropriation. Congress sometimes authorizes an end strength larger than it appropriates for, this will cause the Dept to go back to Congress to request reprogramming authority to allow other funds to be applies to PMC funds. The 2013 NDAA was a perfect case of this occurring; Congress directed through authorizations a growth in the Marine Corps of 1000 specifically to grow the MSG program. However no money was appropriated to do the increase which amounted to almost a billion of the FYDP. So DOD had to reprogram significant money to give the Marines both PMC pay for the people, O&M to pay for the gear and PANMC to pay for the ammo. Bottom line is the SECNAV would need to go to Congress to get both authorities. Was more in depth than intended... Wasn't the SEAL budget the same as the Marines for a long time? |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:01:17 PM EDT
[#13]
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IIRC we talked about it briefly when I was in STA. I'll see if I can find it in my notes. Now you were in STA? Better update your resume and profile. We can't have anyone not knowing you were an 8541/0317. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:02:42 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:03:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now you were in STA? Better update your resume and profile. We can't have anyone not knowing you were an 8541/0317. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: IIRC we talked about it briefly when I was in STA. I'll see if I can find it in my notes. Now you were in STA? Better update your resume and profile. We can't have anyone not knowing you were an 8541/0317. Sorry to have lived such a bad ass life. (not really) |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:09:56 PM EDT
[#16]
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That...... Was more in depth than intended... Wasn't the SEAL budget the same as the Marines for a long time? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Technically couldn't the Dept. of the Navy double the size of the Marines if it shit canned the SEALS budget and put it to the USMC? Service size is set through two processes, first is authorization and the second through appropriation. Congress sometimes authorizes an end strength larger than it appropriates for, this will cause the Dept to go back to Congress to request reprogramming authority to allow other funds to be applies to PMC funds. The 2013 NDAA was a perfect case of this occurring; Congress directed through authorizations a growth in the Marine Corps of 1000 specifically to grow the MSG program. However no money was appropriated to do the increase which amounted to almost a billion of the FYDP. So DOD had to reprogram significant money to give the Marines both PMC pay for the people, O&M to pay for the gear and PANMC to pay for the ammo. Bottom line is the SECNAV would need to go to Congress to get both authorities. Was more in depth than intended... Wasn't the SEAL budget the same as the Marines for a long time? No, SEALs and various other former members of someo of the SMUs (DEVGRU, CAG) have claimed their units had the same ammo budget (Navy-Marine Corps term is Procurement Ammo Navy-Marine Corps, PANMC) as the whole of the Marine Corps. But knowing a bit about how huge that PANMC budget is, those is a very dubious claims. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:10:58 PM EDT
[#17]
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Me too. Just imagining a sniper in the field with a tape measure..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe a silly question but I wondering if anyone has any numbers on the furthest confirmed kill with a standard issue M4?  Soldiers and Marines in combat don't really spend a lot of time "confirming" kills or precisely measuring off distances when they are sure they (and they alone) shot someone. There's no Boone and Crockett Club. Any claim would be a claim. "Gee Joe, that guy shooting had to be 750 meters away when you fired that single shot that apparently killed him while all the rest of us just sat on our hands, unsure of what to do! I'm glad the whole convoy didn't unload on him with SAWs, machine guns, grenade launchers and massed rifle fire so you get that record!" For some reason, the "Boone and Crockett Club" comment made me chuckle. Me too. Just imagining a sniper in the field with a tape measure..... Beard & Turban Club. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:11:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, SEALs and various other groups often claim they had the same PANMC (Procurement Ammo Navy-Marine Corps) as the whole of the Marine Corps. But know a bit about how huge that PANMC budget is, that is a various dubious claim. Quote HistoryQuoted: snip No, SEALs and various other groups often claim they had the same PANMC (Procurement Ammo Navy-Marine Corps) as the whole of the Marine Corps. But know a bit about how huge that PANMC budget is, that is a various dubious claim. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:26:24 PM EDT
[#19]
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BLTs are huge Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I kill paper at 25 yards when i qual Quoted:
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Hitting pop ups at 800m with an acog was easy enough. Ild be impressed with anything even half that distance on a moving shooting and cover utilizing enemy. I know of 740 meter hit that caused the death of a Taliban with BLT 1/6 in 04 with an M4. Now I want a BLT BLTs are huge Even 1/6th of one is still pretty big. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:31:12 PM EDT
[#20]
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Was it the bacon or tomato that got him? How does one launch a sandwich fast enought to kill some one? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hitting pop ups at 800m with an acog was easy enough. Ild be impressed with anything even half that distance on a moving shooting and cover utilizing enemy. I know of 740 meter hit that caused the death of a Taliban with BLT 1/6 in 04 with an M4. Was it the bacon or tomato that got him? How does one launch a sandwich fast enought to kill some one? Haven't you ever eaten at an Army mess hall? |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:40:16 PM EDT
[#21]
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Oh. I just remember seeing some pie chart a long time ago on defense spending and it showed the Dept of the Navy's budget with the USMC as 6% and NSW as 8% or something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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snip
No, SEALs and various other groups often claim they had the same PANMC (Procurement Ammo Navy-Marine Corps) as the whole of the Marine Corps. But know a bit about how huge that PANMC budget is, that is a various dubious claim. Marine Corps is approx 6 percent of DoDs budget |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:47:48 PM EDT
[#22]
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Was it in a high wind? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I shot a armadillo at 25 yards at night. Does that count? Was it in a high wind? 
Aw fuck, I sprung sumpthin'. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:50:21 PM EDT
[#23]
-e-
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Posted: 1/4/2015 2:34:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No idea. never seen or read them. I saw act of valor. I think that pretty much covers all seal movies. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Or someone who just read a book/saw a movie about a seal. I don't know of anybody who actually uses that term except when they are talking about snipers. but i have never heard an actual sniper talk about it that way. whatever. I ignored the term and kind of focused on the technical nature of the question. ETA http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/97/80/06/20/82/9780062082350_500X500.jpg The forward is from Marcus Lutrell. You know this shits legit. Never saw the movie or read the book, but all the snipers I know work in teams and generally don't claim kills as their own. Does the book or movie mention his spotter or teammates? No idea. never seen or read them. I saw act of valor. I think that pretty much covers all seal movies. Navy SEALs - with Charlie Sheen. It's the awesomest ever.  Or "Navy SEALs: Untold Stories" from the 1990s ("A Great Loss" is my favorite - so many places to stop the video and see "see what fucked up stupidity does?"). The "Ain't-Ever Quiet" Semi-Professionals. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 2:37:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Technically couldn't the Dept. of the Navy double the size of the Marines if it shit canned the SEALS budget and put it to the USMC? There could be cost-savings in combining the two PR departments. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 2:40:07 PM EDT
[#26]
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There could be cost-savings in combining the two PR departments. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Technically couldn't the Dept. of the Navy double the size of the Marines if it shit canned the SEALS budget and put it to the USMC? There could be cost-savings in combining the two PR departments. I quote on the best PAOs I know, doing good things without letting people know is like peeing yourself in a dark suit. It may make you feel all warm but no one knows. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 2:52:15 PM EDT
[#27]
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no one knows. In some communities, thats the point. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 2:54:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whats a confirmed kill? |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 3:08:10 PM EDT
[#29]
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In some communities, thats the point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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no one knows. In some communities, thats the point. Until it comes times to submit for appropriations |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 3:09:51 PM EDT
[#30]
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Until it comes times to submit for appropriations Quote HistoryQuoted:
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no one knows. In some communities, thats the point. Until it comes times to submit for appropriations for much of DoD, budget is the mission. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 5:53:41 AM EDT
[#31]
Whoa, excuse my ignorance for not having served in the military. I don't quite know the proper terms.
I figured it was an actual thing because ex and current military service men has said the term, "confirmed kill" before and I'm only taking their word for it. I figure the term means, a kill which was witnessed by others. So there is no real answer to the longest kill on a human with a standard issue M4? |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 5:56:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Well, I had the pleasure of conversing with an E6 who claimed to have killed an enemy sniper, from 400m, with an M4 with an ACOG. Said he couldn't see the guy, just saw the sun reflecting off his scope and aimed for that. He said the bullet went right through the enemy snipers scope, without touching the sizes, and killed him.
Nope, I didn't believe a word of it That's a Carlos Hathcock story that is also in way too many movie plots.
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Posted: 2/1/2015 5:57:58 AM EDT
[#33]
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I leaned out the window of my T16 back home and got a whomp rat once.... those are only about 3 meters wide... |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 6:06:30 AM EDT
[#34]
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A game mode in Call Of Duty. The only person I can see asking this question (O.P.s about "confirmed kill") is either a 16yr old or a poge with mall ninja dreams. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Whats a confirmed kill? A game mode in Call Of Duty. The only person I can see asking this question (O.P.s about "confirmed kill") is either a 16yr old or a poge with mall ninja dreams. You must play that shit in order for you to know...lol
I love when people say these types of remarks, you know the game title and the shit that goes on in the game and yet you call someone out on it. my name doesn't have anything to do with videogames. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 10:06:46 AM EDT
[#35]
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Whoa, excuse my ignorance for not having served in the military. I don't quite know the proper terms. I figured it was an actual thing because ex and current military service men has said the term, "confirmed kill" before and I'm only taking their word for it. I figure the term means, a kill which was witnessed by others. So there is no real answer to the longest kill on a human with a standard issue M4?
87 miles 
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