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Posted: 8/26/2022 6:01:54 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For people interested in how otherwise intelligent people like the OP can get suckered by Russian propaganda, this is an interesting read. I'm about half way through it. You guys need to understand that we are quite literally the target of a protracted propaganda campaign conducted by Russia. https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RRA700/RRA704-3/RAND_RRA704-3.pdf Another good one https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR2200/RR2237/RAND_RR2237.pdf But Russia totally isn't our enemy anymore! After all, I've been thoroughly assured those Commies just can't be Commies anymore since they ditched their uniforms and put on business suits. Would a Commie wear a business suit? 
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Posted: 8/26/2022 6:10:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But Russia totally isn't our enemy anymore! After all, I've been thoroughly assured those Commies just can't be Commies anymore since they ditched their uniforms and put on business suits. Would a Commie wear a business suit? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For people interested in how otherwise intelligent people like the OP can get suckered by Russian propaganda, this is an interesting read. I'm about half way through it. You guys need to understand that we are quite literally the target of a protracted propaganda campaign conducted by Russia. https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RRA700/RRA704-3/RAND_RRA704-3.pdf Another good one https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR2200/RR2237/RAND_RR2237.pdf But Russia totally isn't our enemy anymore! After all, I've been thoroughly assured those Commies just can't be Commies anymore since they ditched their uniforms and put on business suits. Would a Commie wear a business suit? It's surprising how pervasive this stuff actually is. I realized I reposted the same one you posted earlier, oh well, hopefully some people that need to read it actually do. |
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Posted: 8/26/2022 6:13:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: did ukraine become anti-God first? That's what makes OP's argument even more ridiculous. Christianity has made huge inroads in Ukraine, more so than most other former Eastern bloc states. In fact, Ukraine sends out a lot of missionaries to other former Eastern bloc nations. |
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Posted: 8/26/2022 6:20:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what makes OP's argument even more ridiculous. Christianity has made huge inroads in Ukraine, more so than most other former Eastern bloc states. In fact, Ukraine sends out a lot of missionaries to other former Eastern bloc nations. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: did ukraine become anti-God first? That's what makes OP's argument even more ridiculous. Christianity has made huge inroads in Ukraine, more so than most other former Eastern bloc states. In fact, Ukraine sends out a lot of missionaries to other former Eastern bloc nations. Ukraine/Kyivan-Rus became officially Christian in 988. "Russia" /Muscovites didn't even exist then. |
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Posted: 8/26/2022 6:37:14 PM EDT
[#5]
There is a lot of obvious problems with claims that Russia is fighting a religious war. With all the world wide craziness why bother with Ukraine. With all their so many spies and trouble makers they have there is a lot they could do. They could take situations key situations where thugs are keeping law enforcement from busting AAmajor cases open and have a better class of thugs come in and change the situation. All over the world police could be busting down doors discovering terrible things. Instead Russia is busy shelling Ukraine. Looks like just simple greed.
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Posted: 8/26/2022 8:00:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But Russia totally isn't our enemy anymore! After all, I've been thoroughly assured those Commies just can't be Commies anymore since they ditched their uniforms and put on business suits. Would a Commie wear a business suit? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For people interested in how otherwise intelligent people like the OP can get suckered by Russian propaganda, this is an interesting read. I'm about half way through it. You guys need to understand that we are quite literally the target of a protracted propaganda campaign conducted by Russia. https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RRA700/RRA704-3/RAND_RRA704-3.pdf Another good one https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR2200/RR2237/RAND_RR2237.pdf But Russia totally isn't our enemy anymore! After all, I've been thoroughly assured those Commies just can't be Commies anymore since they ditched their uniforms and put on business suits. Would a Commie wear a business suit? |
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Posted: 8/26/2022 8:02:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine/Kyivan-Rus became officially Christian in 988. "Russia" /Muscovites didn't even exist then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: did ukraine become anti-God first? That's what makes OP's argument even more ridiculous. Christianity has made huge inroads in Ukraine, more so than most other former Eastern bloc states. In fact, Ukraine sends out a lot of missionaries to other former Eastern bloc nations. Ukraine/Kyivan-Rus became officially Christian in 988. "Russia" /Muscovites didn't even exist then. Ukraine/ Kyivan Rus got utterly destroyed by the mongols. Novgorod/Moscow and the Russians survived. |
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Posted: 8/26/2022 10:52:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what makes OP's argument even more ridiculous. Christianity has made huge inroads in Ukraine, more so than most other former Eastern bloc states. In fact, Ukraine sends out a lot of missionaries to other former Eastern bloc nations. For the last year I’ve been funding a Christian summer camp in mikolaiv. To say Ukraine is anti God is so unbelievably false |
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Posted: 8/26/2022 10:58:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sadly they absolutely are are enemies now but are not communists. They are the manifestation of where communism ends up. Ask the farmers in Donbas who are getting their crops and farming equipment redistributed. They just skip most of that fluffy shit in the middle now. |
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Posted: 8/26/2022 11:18:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are the manifestation of where communism ends up. Ask the farmers in Donbas who are getting their crops and farming equipment redistributed. They just skip most of that fluffy shit in the middle now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sadly they absolutely are are enemies now but are not communists. They are the manifestation of where communism ends up. Ask the farmers in Donbas who are getting their crops and farming equipment redistributed. They just skip most of that fluffy shit in the middle now. Totally not Commie bro. For real bro. http://rferl.org/a/russia-nationalize-foreign-companies/31746695.html |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 12:21:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Totally not Commie bro. For real bro. http://rferl.org/a/russia-nationalize-foreign-companies/31746695.html Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sadly they absolutely are are enemies now but are not communists. They are the manifestation of where communism ends up. Ask the farmers in Donbas who are getting their crops and farming equipment redistributed. They just skip most of that fluffy shit in the middle now. Totally not Commie bro. For real bro. http://rferl.org/a/russia-nationalize-foreign-companies/31746695.html Yeah still not communists. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 12:28:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah still not communists. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sadly they absolutely are are enemies now but are not communists. They are the manifestation of where communism ends up. Ask the farmers in Donbas who are getting their crops and farming equipment redistributed. They just skip most of that fluffy shit in the middle now. Totally not Commie bro. For real bro. http://rferl.org/a/russia-nationalize-foreign-companies/31746695.html Yeah still not communists. 
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Posted: 8/27/2022 1:15:05 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sadly they absolutely are are enemies now but are not communists. They are the manifestation of where communism ends up. Ask the farmers in Donbas who are getting their crops and farming equipment redistributed. They just skip most of that fluffy shit in the middle now. Totally not Commie bro. For real bro. http://rferl.org/a/russia-nationalize-foreign-companies/31746695.html Yeah still not communists. https://i.imgur.com/4uAMOq9.gif Eh |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 3:46:05 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine/ Kyivan Rus got utterly destroyed by the mongols. Novgorod/Moscow and the Russians survived. You mean the Kyivan Rus fought to the death and the Muscovites slobbered Mongol cock and paid them tribute. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 3:51:28 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean the Kyivan Rus fought to the death and the Muscovites slobbered Mongol cock and paid them tribute. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ukraine/ Kyivan Rus got utterly destroyed by the mongols. Novgorod/Moscow and the Russians survived. You mean the Kyivan Rus fought to the death and the Muscovites slobbered Mongol cock and paid them tribute. And then defeated them and took their land yeah. Reading rainbow type stuff. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 3:52:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Complete and utter nonsense and, if you agree with this flimsy supposition, you probably vote Democrat. Bracken had 1 good book in him. One. It isn't great and it's not especially well written but I still reread it from time to time.
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Posted: 8/27/2022 4:09:42 AM EDT
[#17]
Let's see Putin embezzles billions from Russia and hides if all over the place.
Uses assassins and trumped up criminal charges against his enemies Got divorced because he was banging a girl gymnast who he never married (or maybe he did) and has kids with Putin makes the Clintons look like saints with the amount of corruption, violence, embezzlement and other gangsterism he engages in. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 4:17:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Did I read that right? Commie russia is saving religion? FFS.
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Posted: 8/27/2022 4:26:08 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And then defeated them and took their land yeah. Reading rainbow type stuff. At that point it was just an inter-Mongolian dispute over the loot. You ever notice that a lot of Russians have exotic looking eyes? There’s a reason for that and it doesn’t come from defeating the Mongols. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 8:04:35 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At that point it was just an inter-Mongolian dispute over the loot. You ever notice that a lot of Russians have exotic looking eyes? There’s a reason for that and it doesn’t come from defeating the Mongols. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And then defeated them and took their land yeah. Reading rainbow type stuff. At that point it was just an inter-Mongolian dispute over the loot. You ever notice that a lot of Russians have exotic looking eyes? There’s a reason for that and it doesn’t come from defeating the Mongols. Yes, “exotic” 
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Posted: 8/27/2022 8:20:16 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's see Putin embezzles billions from Russia and hides if all over the place. Uses assassins and trumped up criminal charges against his enemies Got divorced because he was banging a girl gymnast who he never married (or maybe he did) and has kids with Putin makes the Clintons look like saints with the amount of corruption, violence, embezzlement and other gangsterism he engages in.  |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 10:07:24 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know if you re Trolling or the product of a Kumbaya church. Either way, I recommend you actually read the Bible. You might start with the book of Joshua. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: oh bullshit. highly Christian to invade your neighbor and slaughter their women and children with indiscriminate artillery fire on civilian areas. Not that the west has much religious moral high ground to stand on but the corrupt Russian orthodox church is nothing more than a means of controlling the masses. Though most organized religion is just that... The russians aren't fighting globohomo this was a straight up land grab aggression with a side of genocide. The Christian thing would be to love thy fellow sinner and hope to bring light to their sinful ways not blow them up cause they fags. I don't know if you re Trolling or the product of a Kumbaya church. Either way, I recommend you actually read the Bible. You might start with the book of Joshua. Ok, so not just me thinking Obo2 is lost. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 10:32:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah still not communists. Agree. They are a lot of bad things, but calling them "Communist" is intellectually one click above calling then "great big poopy heads". |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 11:08:20 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine/ Kyivan Rus got utterly destroyed by the mongols. Novgorod/Moscow and the Russians survived. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: did ukraine become anti-God first? That's what makes OP's argument even more ridiculous. Christianity has made huge inroads in Ukraine, more so than most other former Eastern bloc states. In fact, Ukraine sends out a lot of missionaries to other former Eastern bloc nations. Ukraine/Kyivan-Rus became officially Christian in 988. "Russia" /Muscovites didn't even exist then. Ukraine/ Kyivan Rus got utterly destroyed by the mongols. Novgorod/Moscow and the Russians survived. BS. Feel free to post a photo of what books gave you your insight on Ukrainian history. Here is where I got some of my information since the 1970s:  Since you probably have none, here is a good summary: How Moscow Hijacked the History of the Kyivan-Rus |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 11:09:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agree. They are a lot of bad things, but calling them "Communist" is intellectually one click above calling then "great big poopy heads". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah still not communists. Agree. They are a lot of bad things, but calling them "Communist" is intellectually one click above calling then "great big poopy heads". Fighting for the hill that the country which mainstreamed the international Communist movement, for which no single party member was ever tried and executed for their crimes against humanity, with an actual Communist Party member currently in charge through sham elections and nationalizing foreign businesses seems a strange effort but, okay. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 11:56:14 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean the Kyivan Rus fought to the death and the Muscovites slobbered Mongol cock and paid them tribute. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ukraine/ Kyivan Rus got utterly destroyed by the mongols. Novgorod/Moscow and the Russians survived. You mean the Kyivan Rus fought to the death and the Muscovites slobbered Mongol cock and paid them tribute. In fairness, Moscow wasn't even relevant. It's more like a peripheral village not capable of any resistance that any occupying force would just bypass and ignore. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 12:02:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In fairness, Moscow wasn't even relevant. It's more like a peripheral village not capable of any resistance that any occupying force would just bypass and ignore. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ukraine/ Kyivan Rus got utterly destroyed by the mongols. Novgorod/Moscow and the Russians survived. You mean the Kyivan Rus fought to the death and the Muscovites slobbered Mongol cock and paid them tribute. In fairness, Moscow wasn't even relevant. It's more like a peripheral village not capable of any resistance that any occupying force would just bypass and ignore. I watched a fun propaganda movie on an Aeroflot flight once about how (I assume) the muscovites valiantly defeated Kubla Khan. My historical knowledge of that time period is a bit rusty but that didn't seem correct to me lol. Can't recall the name of it though |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 12:09:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Putin is a thug who uses the Russian Orthodoxy as if it was the NKVD. He simply exchanged the Commissars for the opiate of the masses.
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Posted: 8/27/2022 12:17:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BS. Feel free to post a photo of what books gave you your insight on Ukrainian history. Here is where I got some of my information since the 1970s: https://i.ibb.co/QQh7SC2/20220827-105732.jpg Since you probably have none, here is a good summary: How Moscow Hijacked the History of the Kyivan-Rus Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: did ukraine become anti-God first? That's what makes OP's argument even more ridiculous. Christianity has made huge inroads in Ukraine, more so than most other former Eastern bloc states. In fact, Ukraine sends out a lot of missionaries to other former Eastern bloc nations. Ukraine/Kyivan-Rus became officially Christian in 988. "Russia" /Muscovites didn't even exist then. Ukraine/ Kyivan Rus got utterly destroyed by the mongols. Novgorod/Moscow and the Russians survived. BS. Feel free to post a photo of what books gave you your insight on Ukrainian history. Here is where I got some of my information since the 1970s: https://i.ibb.co/QQh7SC2/20220827-105732.jpg Since you probably have none, here is a good summary: How Moscow Hijacked the History of the Kyivan-Rus The Church bit is left out, but relevant given the context of current Russian propaganda and the role Patriarch Kirill has played. While the head of the Russian church moved to Moscow in the 1300s, it would be long after Peter, before the real heart of religious education and scholarship shifted from Kyiv. Ukrainians dominated the Russian Church until the reign of Catherine II, after which it became more and more controlled from Moscow. It was arguably analogous to the strong influence of Greek scholarship and culture in Rome for so much of Roman imperial history. In fact, that analogy and what that meant for the longer history of Rome as it evolved into Byzantium is likely a very real concern for those fixated on the long game and preserving Moscow as the "Third Rome." Thus, Kyiv must not be allowed to thrive as an independent power center. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 12:20:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fighting for the hill that the country which mainstreamed the international Communist movement, for which no single party member was ever tried and executed for their crimes against humanity, with an actual Communist Party member currently in charge through sham elections and nationalizing foreign businesses seems a strange effort but, okay. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah still not communists. Agree. They are a lot of bad things, but calling them "Communist" is intellectually one click above calling then "great big poopy heads". Fighting for the hill that the country which mainstreamed the international Communist movement, for which no single party member was ever tried and executed for their crimes against humanity, with an actual Communist Party member currently in charge through sham elections and nationalizing foreign businesses seems a strange effort but, okay. Not to mention that the actual Communist Party of Russia remains locks step in support of Putin's administration, and the Putin administration has spearheaded the whole "Stalin and the Soviet Soviet were, like, totally awesome" historical narrative campaign. But, "globohomos!" Oh, and speaking of Aeroflot, I'd love for the "Russia as global leader against Leftist globohomism" crowd to rationalize why this remains their logo:  |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 12:25:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But Russia totally isn't our enemy anymore! After all, I've been thoroughly assured those Commies just can't be Commies anymore since they ditched their uniforms and put on business suits. Would a Commie wear a business suit? Reid Hoffman and George Soros do. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 12:27:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to mention that the actual Communist Party of Russia remains locks step in support of Putin's administration, and the Putin administration has spearheaded the whole "Stalin and the Soviet Soviet were, like, totally awesome" historical narrative campaign. But, "globohomos!" Oh, and speaking of Aeroflot, I'd love for the "Russia as global leader against Leftist globohomism" crowd to rationalize why this remains their logo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/Aeroflot.svg/2560px-Aeroflot.svg.png Well global homogenization is still beige world bullshit. People preaching multiculturalism while destroying non-conformity. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 12:30:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At that point it was just an inter-Mongolian dispute over the loot. You ever notice that a lot of Russians have exotic looking eyes? There’s a reason for that and it doesn’t come from defeating the Mongols. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And then defeated them and took their land yeah. Reading rainbow type stuff. At that point it was just an inter-Mongolian dispute over the loot. You ever notice that a lot of Russians have exotic looking eyes? There’s a reason for that and it doesn’t come from defeating the Mongols. That’s fetal alcohol syndrome, tvarish… |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 12:35:53 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to mention that the actual Communist Party of Russia remains locks step in support of Putin's administration, and the Putin administration has spearheaded the whole "Stalin and the Soviet Soviet were, like, totally awesome" historical narrative campaign. But, "globohomos!" Oh, and speaking of Aeroflot, I'd love for the "Russia as global leader against Leftist globohomism" crowd to rationalize why this remains their logo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/Aeroflot.svg/2560px-Aeroflot.svg.png Great points. Putin has indeed overseen a big revival and whitewashing of Stalin in the last several years. Russia: Was Stalin So Bad? - August 9, 2007 The Kremlin, it seems, doesn't agree. Russian President Vladimir Putin told a group of history teachers last month that though Russia's past had "problematic pages," they are fewer and "not as terrible as those of some others." Regardless, he said, it was the teacher's duty to make schoolchildren "proud of their motherland." To that end, the government has embarked on a campaign to change the way history is taught to Russian schoolchildren. Earlier this year, the Russian Academy of Education commissioned a major review of key history textbooks. But historians complain that new guidelines issued by the academy are designed to whitewash the atrocities committed by Stalin and downplay the Soviet Union's loss of the cold war. "The Kremlin thinks it would be much easier to consolidate the society around pleasant memories of history, rather than around negative facts," complains one of the editors, historian Isaak Rozental. "Their approach is not to study history but to use it." One new state-approved text, "A Book for Teachers: The Modern History of Russia, 1945-2006," describes Stalin as "the most successful leader of the U.S.S.R." Of the estimated 25 million killed in the purges and in collectivization, it notes, with chilling blandness, "political repression was used to mobilize not only rank-and-file citizens but also the ruling elite." The new history is much tougher on Boris Yeltsin—who led Russia's chaotic post-communist transition in the 1990s—denouncing his "weak" and "pro-Western" policies. Stalin's popularity comeback in Russia - October 20, 2009 Russia raises Stalin's ghost amid nostalgia for past glories - May 5, 2015 Law student Mikhail Kosyrev used to have a negative view of Stalin but his attitude has drastically changed in recent years, he said, insisting the wartime tyrant meant well. "Over the past five years I've often watched documentary films about Stalin, about that time on television and learnt more about him," the 29-year-old told AFP. "And now I don't have any negative feelings towards him. He had good intentions." Since President Vladimir Putin took power in 2000, there has been a growing chorus of Russians who take a positive view of the Soviet tyrant's role in history. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 12:49:00 PM EDT
[#35]
Russia is essentially a Kleptocracy.
Despite the fact the Eastern Orthodox Church made a comeback. Communism is its own religion. Even its offshoots- like Corporate-Capitalism. The Conflict between the East and West is the fact that Putin (even with the help of the West, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, got a very lucrative oil/ petroleum/ minerals operation going, one that made Putin into a multi-billionaire) is still pressured by the West with their allowing all of the former axis satellite states to join the EU special team, as players. Putin's regional interests are at stake. Encroachment. No buffer states. And he doesn't want to be reduced to a second status player (even though he is). The Ukraine move is to stop the West's encroachment. And preserve his own nationalist interests. Which the EU is trying to supersede in the rest of the world with supra nationalist interests leading. The West is absorbing other nation-states to join in on their one-worlder games. Putin loses and gets pushed further out of the picture. He wants to stop and reverse that. His economy is not one controlled by supra-nationalist interests (though he has benefited greatly in cooperating with them). And he wants to maintain a global presence to counter that. He looks like he still won't succeed with his plan. And nuclear weapons. Guess they'll (the EU/ WEF/ etc.) cut another deal... |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 12:59:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well global homogenization is still beige world bullshit. People preaching multiculturalism while destroying non-conformity. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not to mention that the actual Communist Party of Russia remains locks step in support of Putin's administration, and the Putin administration has spearheaded the whole "Stalin and the Soviet Soviet were, like, totally awesome" historical narrative campaign. But, "globohomos!" Oh, and speaking of Aeroflot, I'd love for the "Russia as global leader against Leftist globohomism" crowd to rationalize why this remains their logo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/Aeroflot.svg/2560px-Aeroflot.svg.png Well global homogenization is still beige world bullshit. People preaching multiculturalism while destroying non-conformity. There is a very real struggle in the free world against globohomos" and such, but it is 1) not being led by Russia, 2) actually being instigated on both ends by Russia. Going from "me no like globohomo" to "I think this Putin guy is on to something, and the world should just let Ukraine get what's coming to it, ya know, 'bombing Donbas' and all" requires such a high level of stupidity as to almost warrant commendation. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 2:28:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BS. Feel free to post a photo of what books gave you your insight on Ukrainian history. Here is where I got some of my information since the 1970s: https://i.ibb.co/QQh7SC2/20220827-105732.jpg Since you probably have none, here is a good summary: How Moscow Hijacked the History of the Kyivan-Rus Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: did ukraine become anti-God first? That's what makes OP's argument even more ridiculous. Christianity has made huge inroads in Ukraine, more so than most other former Eastern bloc states. In fact, Ukraine sends out a lot of missionaries to other former Eastern bloc nations. Ukraine/Kyivan-Rus became officially Christian in 988. "Russia" /Muscovites didn't even exist then. Ukraine/ Kyivan Rus got utterly destroyed by the mongols. Novgorod/Moscow and the Russians survived. BS. Feel free to post a photo of what books gave you your insight on Ukrainian history. Here is where I got some of my information since the 1970s: https://i.ibb.co/QQh7SC2/20220827-105732.jpg Since you probably have none, here is a good summary: How Moscow Hijacked the History of the Kyivan-Rus Interesting read but the extremely biased author leaves out the Key to ancient Rus identity in one glaring omission Novgorod. He forgets that the Rus took over Kiev from Novgorod not the other way around. The Mongols wholly annihilated Kiev and left it a blackened boneyard devoid of culture history people. Novgorod was virtually untouched. Novgorod holds the key to all those historical links everyone wants to align themselves with like Vikings and Rurik. It also had to reconstitute Rus culture and history in the lands after the mongols wiped everyone out. Eventually what was left all merged together to make present Russia of which Novgorod is a part of. For anyone to lay total claim to the ancient Rus mythological identity at this point might be a bit of a stretch but the Russians can show direct lineage to it. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 4:42:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting read but the extremely biased author leaves out the Key to ancient Rus identity in one glaring omission Novgorod. He forgets that the Rus took over Kiev from Novgorod not the other way around. The Mongols wholly annihilated Kiev and left it a blackened boneyard devoid of culture history people. Novgorod was virtually untouched. Novgorod holds the key to all those historical links everyone wants to align themselves with like Vikings and Rurik. It also had to reconstitute Rus culture and history in the lands after the mongols wiped everyone out. Eventually what was left all merged together to make present Russia of which Novgorod is a part of. For anyone to lay total claim to the ancient Rus mythological identity at this point might be a bit of a stretch but the Russians can show direct lineage to it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: did ukraine become anti-God first? That's what makes OP's argument even more ridiculous. Christianity has made huge inroads in Ukraine, more so than most other former Eastern bloc states. In fact, Ukraine sends out a lot of missionaries to other former Eastern bloc nations. Ukraine/Kyivan-Rus became officially Christian in 988. "Russia" /Muscovites didn't even exist then. Ukraine/ Kyivan Rus got utterly destroyed by the mongols. Novgorod/Moscow and the Russians survived. BS. Feel free to post a photo of what books gave you your insight on Ukrainian history. Here is where I got some of my information since the 1970s: https://i.ibb.co/QQh7SC2/20220827-105732.jpg Since you probably have none, here is a good summary: How Moscow Hijacked the History of the Kyivan-Rus Interesting read but the extremely biased author leaves out the Key to ancient Rus identity in one glaring omission Novgorod. He forgets that the Rus took over Kiev from Novgorod not the other way around. The Mongols wholly annihilated Kiev and left it a blackened boneyard devoid of culture history people. Novgorod was virtually untouched. Novgorod holds the key to all those historical links everyone wants to align themselves with like Vikings and Rurik. It also had to reconstitute Rus culture and history in the lands after the mongols wiped everyone out. Eventually what was left all merged together to make present Russia of which Novgorod is a part of. For anyone to lay total claim to the ancient Rus mythological identity at this point might be a bit of a stretch but the Russians can show direct lineage to it. "Russians" /Muskovites had more in common DNA wise with Mongols than Slavs and their early culture reflects this. Muscovites stole the culture and history of every nation/people they conquered (Slavic) and then claim it as their own - the whole "Russian speaker" bullshit excuses as a tactic to invade a country to save "their people" is hundreds of years old. Kyivan-Rus people are tied to Scandinavians and the early culture reflects it (some customs, crafts, etc. of Ukraine are also directly tied to Finland and Sweden) - Muscovites have no tie to this in their origin except what they stole from the Kyivan-Rus WHICH WAS NOT RUSSIAN EVER. But, you are one of the Russian defenders here. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 9:02:30 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Russians" /Muskovites had more in common DNA wise with Mongols than Slavs and their early culture reflects this. Muscovites stole the culture and history of every nation/people they conquered (Slavic) and then claim it as their own - the whole "Russian speaker" bullshit excuses as a tactic to invade a country to save "their people" is hundreds of years old. Kyivan-Rus people are tied to Scandinavians and the early culture reflects it (some customs, crafts, etc. of Ukraine are also directly tied to Finland and Sweden) - Muscovites have no tie to this in their origin except what they stole from the Kyivan-Rus WHICH WAS NOT RUSSIAN EVER. But, you are one of the Russian defenders here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: did ukraine become anti-God first? That's what makes OP's argument even more ridiculous. Christianity has made huge inroads in Ukraine, more so than most other former Eastern bloc states. In fact, Ukraine sends out a lot of missionaries to other former Eastern bloc nations. Ukraine/Kyivan-Rus became officially Christian in 988. "Russia" /Muscovites didn't even exist then. Ukraine/ Kyivan Rus got utterly destroyed by the mongols. Novgorod/Moscow and the Russians survived. BS. Feel free to post a photo of what books gave you your insight on Ukrainian history. Here is where I got some of my information since the 1970s: https://i.ibb.co/QQh7SC2/20220827-105732.jpg Since you probably have none, here is a good summary: How Moscow Hijacked the History of the Kyivan-Rus Interesting read but the extremely biased author leaves out the Key to ancient Rus identity in one glaring omission Novgorod. He forgets that the Rus took over Kiev from Novgorod not the other way around. The Mongols wholly annihilated Kiev and left it a blackened boneyard devoid of culture history people. Novgorod was virtually untouched. Novgorod holds the key to all those historical links everyone wants to align themselves with like Vikings and Rurik. It also had to reconstitute Rus culture and history in the lands after the mongols wiped everyone out. Eventually what was left all merged together to make present Russia of which Novgorod is a part of. For anyone to lay total claim to the ancient Rus mythological identity at this point might be a bit of a stretch but the Russians can show direct lineage to it. "Russians" /Muskovites had more in common DNA wise with Mongols than Slavs and their early culture reflects this. Muscovites stole the culture and history of every nation/people they conquered (Slavic) and then claim it as their own - the whole "Russian speaker" bullshit excuses as a tactic to invade a country to save "their people" is hundreds of years old. Kyivan-Rus people are tied to Scandinavians and the early culture reflects it (some customs, crafts, etc. of Ukraine are also directly tied to Finland and Sweden) - Muscovites have no tie to this in their origin except what they stole from the Kyivan-Rus WHICH WAS NOT RUSSIAN EVER. But, you are one of the Russian defenders here. If you take the DNA of NYC or Chicago you might think we were predominantly Africans. The people of the Russia were never really a genetically monolithic people. Depending on the region you always a melting pot of hostile tribes fighting for lucrative trades routes. Like the Germans the Russians have had to reforge national identity a few times and during those times of course they have focused on whoever they thought was cool at the time. The truth being they are/have been a vast cosmopolitan empire covering a wide swath of land. Most modern Russians can admit to at least this much. Ukraine’s actual tie as far the Rus are concerned leads you to Novgorod which is in you guessed it Russia. Rus sia. The land the history the people are more than just Novgorod or Moscow or Volgograd though. If I had a choice I’d rather be related to Gengis then Rurik. Vikings are soo overrated. Anyway for more Russian history you really should diversify your sources. These guys do a good job. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MkG1J5SZ_kw |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 9:11:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm trying to remember the part where Jesus said go genocide your neighbor Fratricide, they’re all slavs. |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 9:13:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Sanctioning Russia just guaranteed they’d invade Ukraine. It’s as dumb as jailing a poor person for defaulting on the easy credit you insisted on giving them, lol.
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Posted: 8/27/2022 10:30:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fratricide, they’re all slavs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm trying to remember the part where Jesus said go genocide your neighbor Fratricide, they’re all slavs. Lol you don't know the meaning of either word apparently. Seriously, this is a ridiculously ignorant comment. Do I need to explain why? |
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Posted: 8/27/2022 10:31:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sanctioning Russia just guaranteed they’d invade Ukraine. It’s as dumb as jailing a poor person for defaulting on the easy credit you insisted on giving them, lol. IIRC there were no new sanctions until after the war started. If I'm wrong, show me. |
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Posted: 8/28/2022 12:24:58 AM EDT
[#44]
Just good folks, upholding the values Christ taught us.
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Posted: 8/28/2022 12:29:28 AM EDT
[#45]
Putin does shaman bullshit in Siberia while his holy warriors rape and butcher women and children.
Not exactly the stuff of veggietales. |
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Posted: 8/28/2022 12:33:48 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC there were no new sanctions until after the war started. If I'm wrong, show me. The original sanctions were enough to guarantee intervention and they knew this in 2014. Soros stated as much on CNN saying that Putin would intervene as his regime was dependent on Ukraine. The current sanctions simply insure his commitment. They wanted a protracted conflict and they got it. They should quit with the moral high ground garbage and admit it. |
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Posted: 8/28/2022 12:50:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The original sanctions were enough to guarantee intervention and they knew this in 2014. Soros stated as much on CNN saying that Putin would intervene as his regime was dependent on Ukraine. The current sanctions simply insure his commitment. They wanted a protracted conflict and they got it. They should quit with the moral high ground garbage and admit it. They aren’t dependent on Ukraine. That’s silly. |
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Posted: 8/28/2022 12:52:56 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The original sanctions were enough to guarantee intervention and they knew this in 2014. Soros stated as much on CNN saying that Putin would intervene as his regime was dependent on Ukraine. The current sanctions simply insure his commitment. They wanted a protracted conflict and they got it. They should quit with the moral high ground garbage and admit it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: IIRC there were no new sanctions until after the war started. If I'm wrong, show me. The original sanctions were enough to guarantee intervention and they knew this in 2014. Soros stated as much on CNN saying that Putin would intervene as his regime was dependent on Ukraine. The current sanctions simply insure his commitment. They wanted a protracted conflict and they got it. They should quit with the moral high ground garbage and admit it. So the original sanctions implemented after their invasion of Ukraine I'm 2014. That's a weird way of saying I was right, but okay. At least you're not arguing about your bullshit fratricide post. |
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Posted: 8/28/2022 12:55:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They aren’t dependent on Ukraine. That’s silly. “Russia with Ukraine is an empire, without it, it’s just a country” -Zbigniew Brzezinski These guys knew the buttons they were pushing. And a successful economy in an independent Ukraine would totally screw Putin’s. |
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Posted: 8/28/2022 1:05:05 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “Russia with Ukraine is an empire, without it, it’s just a country” -Zbigniew Brzezinski These guys knew the buttons they were pushing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They aren’t dependent on Ukraine. That’s silly. “Russia with Ukraine is an empire, without it, it’s just a country” -Zbigniew Brzezinski These guys knew the buttons they were pushing. So the world should stand by and let Putin do whatever he wants? And he'll stop there right? Nobody pushed any buttons except Putin. Your logic is like saying "just lay there and take it and it'll hurt less" Fuck that. Your logic sucks. Putin is a thug, and this is 100% his own doing. |
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