Good luck with that.

The "wait for somebody else" to show up mentality went away after columbine.

Waiting in the parking lot while the killers are inside executing folks is not a viable strategy.

Im a proud supporter of specialized training in all police depts that prepare them for the various situations faced by LEOs these days. This is what SRT, SWAT, etc is is tasked with in most areas right?? This dept is just late to the game.

Good for them. More training is always a good idea.

Your  ass is showing.   I am LE and I am as far from SWAT wannabe as you're going to get.  I really don't want to do that job due to age and joints and the fact I'm in a specialty that isnt standard law enforcement.  I'm always the outside agency.   I've done some of this training at not much more than an exposure to level.  About the same as your run of the mill town cop not on a team.  The training might give you 30-50% more chance of not getting killed or wounded.  It's like going into a knife fight, just accept that you're going to get  cut.  

I really don't want to do that kind of job, but you know what?  When it happens and I'm 2 miles away from the call, I really don't have a choice,  there is no time to F around, THERE IS NO TIME,  these assholes are there to kill not capture.  Me or anyone else in a suit tasked with protecting the public are going to have to work together and get the job done as best we can with the little amount of training we have.  You might take seconds to talk with your ad hoc team before you go in to develop a plan.  That's in, there is no waiting on the MRAP or the county to call in their team, no time for the state police to send their best, no time for the FBI to fly in their operators.   That's right, you're going in with the what amounts to the 4th string, your locals.  

If the 4th string works hard and is up to the equivalent of the second string then you're way better off.   The truth of the matter is if you're not a full time SWAT guy doing that training all the time, like every day, every week then you're at a disadvantage.  No different than the NG not being the same as Delta.   No disrespect, just facts.  Delta is delta because they work the shit of their tasking in training.  They're funded and not burdened with the menial shit other units have to do.


You'll notice in a lot of these active shooter events there is often an officer wounded or killed.  Those are the realities.  The training ups the odds for the officer  survival but only so much.   What it does do is give the officers a reference, a framework, that they can do it and to go ahead in and not hold the scene from the outside and wait for swat like in the old days.  Those days are over for good for active shooters.

I still say it's Cosplay for grownups.

For some it might be.   Then again they might also be the first one through the door and be riddled full of holes.

This. But it's about what can be expected when folks are raised on first-person shooter games in a country where fear-mongering is an art form.

not terrrrrrist...
terrierists....

Thanks for the article Bama.

Josh Hammond was my neighbor growing up.



Ill be honest, Im not a huge fan of the "military" police idea, and I don't think the police should be able to have firearms and equipment that we do not have.


But the flip side of the coin is I don't think we should limit the training that the police have either. If you can go run a small group tactics class with your buddies why shouldn't they?

It all come down to the attitude they take on the street with them. I think that many police become so accustomed to dealing with scumbags that they forget that there are decent people out there too. If they can remember that this type of training has a time and place, and keep it to that time and place, I think they should get all that they can.

OH and I do laugh at the contradiction of naysayers here who chastise the cops for having military gear and having to adopt infantry tactics for terrorists who are at war with us.   The cops shouldn't have plates and rifles but the prepared arfcommer should have plates a helmet, NVG's, a blow out kit..   Nope, no disconnect at all.

It didn't take long for them to start shooting hostages in the Theater in Paris.

I see this is going as I expected...

Looks like a talon defense class.

 Fire and Maneuver is not that difficult but should be practiced and I have no problem with police doing it.  Once shots are fired, its game on and they should do whatever it takes.  I don't see it as militarization.  Now, when that start calling in arty and CAS....

And that is why something like this really doesn't bother me.  Cargo pants alone do not a stormtrooper make.

I make fun of those guys too (if they're serious).

Everybody tells themselves whatever it is they need to try and internally justify it, but really - it's just big boy toys and Cosplay for grownups.

Meh, better than departments who give their cops no training.

I live a few miles from there.  I also have reservations about militarization but i am more concerned about the US/THEM. Mindset that it fosters.  
Cops are still civilians who have taken an oath to protect the constitution.  Would they arrest Federales who come to their town to enforce an unconstitional law?

I support these tactics and tgT training.  You don't know when or where anything can happen.  

Question?  Why do you even know where Beslan is?

Does that include the military?

We are a relatively small agency also but we still work closely with our local sheriff's department.  

We also practice shooting and moving in groups.  

Entering and exiting an armored vehicle and using it for cover is not something anyone should have to do for the first time in an active shooter situation.  

With the events going on in the world today almost any kind of training like this will be beneficial.

Of course not.

LOL

I was having that conversation with someone at work.

I own tons of that kind of shit, and I use maybe 10% of it @ work. The rest is "because it's fucking awesome", and I don't mind admitting it.

There's a difference between training for active killers and "fear mongering."

Active killers have perpetrated their attacks in small towns. I commend them for being proactive in their training.

I don't think "militarization" has much to do with that. We weren't militarized and we despised the public.

Why not?  Many SWAT teams are probably used more than your average infantryman. I get what you're saying, but it is silly to reduce it all to that when special police units actually train for real events.  I don't do SWAT work, but if I did I would hate to have to wear all that crap.

Exactly.

I only make fun of the guys who take themselves and their gear/training a little too seriously. Call it what it is, and own it.

This is silly. They're preparing for something that will never happen.

This is like the British trying training for line warfare while their troops are being brutalized by guerrillas.

This sounds like a "hey guys, let's get together Saturday and bust out the big toys and play cowboys and Indians."

Probably a fun weekend lol.

I am fine with training, but as a former rural cop I think the cargo pocket comment was humorous because I do indeed hate a militarized looking police force.

But as far as real training goes I think it is much better than none which is what most departments do.

When I lived in Alabama I use to deer hunt in that area.
I guess it's good they are prepared.

Maybe if guys like you and bcauz3y spent more time hardening the power grid against cyber attack and less time posting on Arf, I wouldn't need NVGs and a bunch of multicam

Absolutely.  Having some vets already acquainted with the concept can only help.

They are not talking about a hostage situation. They are talking about a active shooter or shooters that are killing people.

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This is silly. They're preparing for something that will never happen.

This is like the British trying training for line warfare while their troops are being brutalized by guerrillas.

This sounds like a "hey guys, let's get together Saturday and bust out the big toys and play cowboys and Indians."

Probably a fun weekend lol.

I understand the "serious face" they need to put on for PR reasons, but we all know this is really what it was all about.

I ain't complaining about it, I'm just chuckling a little.

Sorry double post

I support the tactics and training I appreciate that they will react appropriately. Hell, I don't even have an issue with cargo pants.

I think we agree but my sarcasm meter might be out of whack. I'll even say my comment really doesn't apply to these guys. These are the guys who are standing up for friends, family, and neighbors. It's the gov vs the people cops that take the militant mindset into the us vs them realm.

Agreed.



But  I think that better firearm control, including shooting, should come first.

Before big bucks get spent on 'infantry' training, teach your cops how to handle a firearm,

both pistol and rifle. Spend a few $$ on ammo and shoot on a regular basis.



Once everybody knows how to shoot, and when not to, then move to advanced training like this.

I realize that the guys in the article are ex-.mil, but are they door-kickers or office workers?



If every PD that was contemplating such training, just did some serious gun control,

there might be fewer executions conducted in the streets, like we see posted here,

every week.



Do not get me wrong, all training is good, and every PD needs more of it, but from what I see,

the basics are getting skipped, meaning the repetitive shooting stuff.



If more cops fired more ammo in practice, maybe less ammo would get fired incorrectly, on scene.

Just less 'booger hooks on bang switches' would be a good start.



IMHO YMMV



 

Definitely. If I were on the department I'd be all "hell yeah!".

I think it's silly that people here actually think this has a real purpose with respect to public safety. You can round from zero down to zero on the probability that they'll ever suit up to exchange fire with North Koreans or ISIS paratroopers.

I'm going to a tech "conference" next year (in Vegas).  Because... yeah, learning, totally.

Yep. Defcon and Blackhat for me this year, on the company dime.

It comes out of our training budget.

It's totally training. I'm super cereal. This is my serious face. --> See my serious face? That means no shenanigans. IT security is no laughing matter.

Double

So basically the least likely target of Islamic Extremists? Hey more power to them regardless.

I was at Quantico for a meeting when the VA Tech shooting went down. HRT was getting on a helo heading that way but it was over before they even got close. I'm not even sure they made it off the ground before it was over. That was in the same state.

When active shooter situations go down the only people who are going to be handling anything are the people on the ground or, at best, a few miles away when it goes down. The "professionals" will still be suiting up.

Something like a Beslan is different but none of the active shooter situations we've seen in the US lasted more than a few minutes until the shooters were dead or had fled. A local cop or armed citizen is far more likely to end the shooting than HRT or even the state police tac team that has to drive in.

That should be fun.

Exactly.