No argument from me.

Luther Bible
11 Ein Weib lerne in der Stille mit aller Untertänigkeit. 12 Einem Weibe aber gestatte ich nicht, daß sie lehre, auch nicht, daß sie des Mannes Herr sei, sondern stille sei.

11 A woman learns in silence with all submissiveness. 12 But I do not permit a woman to teach, not even that she is the master of the man, but be quiet.



The Rev. Sharon Stalkfleet was first called as a pastor to the Lutheran Ministry to Nursing Homes in Oakland and Alameda, CA. She started ministry and served in that capacity for six and 1/2 years ending her call in December 2008. She currently lives with her partner Larell in Alameda, CA with their dog Greta.

Rev. Sharon Stalkfleet was received onto the ELCA clergy roster in 2010.





With Sörnäinen metro in the background!

Spiritual Babylon has taken over these churches and they are rotten to the core, completely doing a shameless 180° from their own foundational precepts, let alone the Bible.

Marriage is an institution and a ceremony ordained by God, for God's purposes.  God sets the standard, not I.

Firing them quietly and not notifying authorities (or the next church they're hired at) isn't the proper response for that stuff.

Agreed.

IIRC, there were "feminist" attitudes surrounding Artemis worship where women literally dominated men.

Male or female, pastors shouldn't be mixing their politics with the gospel.

Ain’t true, and I don’t know why people keep saying it.

I have been a member of a half dozen churches in my life, and all but one took the position that membership in a particular denomination, including their own, was not necessary to be a Christian.

That last line

I can hear you calling the authorities: "Officer, I'd like to report a whoremonger."

And then he slips on his sunglasses, looks around, and then says, "Where?"

I guess context matters.

When speaking of the 12 disciples of Christ, disciples and apostles are the same thing. They're synonyms.

There is NOTHING remotely pagan about the Essenes. They were a sect of Judaism that was devoted to the prophecies of the coming Messiah. Your accusations are particularly libelous because the Essenes are actually descendants of an ancient priestly line that goes back to King David, and that was historically famous for fiercely resisting paganism. Moreover, they go back far before the Romans.

Ritual bathing is something that goes back to the time of the Exodus, and the Essenes practiced it daily. In the temple era, you had to ritually bathe before entering the temple, and new converts to Judaism were also ritually bathed. There's archeological evidence of ancient Mikvahs, ritual baths that is, all over the Holy Land.

Any natural source of water, according to Jewish law, can be used in place of a Mikvah. Be it a river, lake, the ocean, etc. Absolutely nothing pagan about it. There are some pseudo-academic books running around out there that claim that Christianity is created out of paganism, but they're universally recognized as fakes. They're no different from people like Sitchin. They simply make things up without any sources. You find them repeated in things like American Zeitgeist and the Ancient Aliens people.

ETA: Now infant baptism is pagan, but it's completely removed from traditional Judeo-Christian baptism. It was not practiced by the Essenes.

Going back decades ago, the Christians in Africa thought it funny that people in America would use this question as a dodge when someone spoke to them about the gospel:

"What about the heathen in Africa?"

Their response was, "What about the heathen in America?"

If people will argue in favor of homosexual leadership in the church it isn't surprising that they will argue about female leadership in the church.

It's also not surprising which standard fell first. Using the frog in a pot example, women in leadership was not as hot as homosexual leadership.

But as far as scripture goes regarding women, there is no argument.

1 Tim 2
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

The Bible says that, for church matters at the very least, women are under the authority of men.

And these arguments about limiting the prohibition are ridiculous.

The passage goes right back to the first woman who ever existed to explain why women are to be under the authority of men.

1 Timothy 2 falls right in line with Genesis 2.

And Genesis 3.

Yes, but while all 12 apostles were disciples, not all disciples were apostles.

I don't know much about this defiling business, but I am quite sure that what comes out of people's mouths help define them.

I think you're coming up with a fancy way to keep your shrimp.  It's cool, I'll get my own.  :)

Is anyone else bound by the terms of a mutual agreement other than the parties who agree to the terms of the contract?

This shrimp/lobster/mixed fabrics/stone an adulterer stuff that guys like you bring up when talking about the church and/or Christianity ...

All it does is show you have no idea what you are talking about.

Sadly, the USCCB has been an impediment to actual Church Doctrine for as long as I can remember.

@Terlinguachili

I petition you, as a most noble and sage OP, to change the thread title to "Africa Wins Again - Liberal Methodists BTFO".

What is wrong with an exemplar of faith?

So, you're maintaining that the organization who wrote the Bible turned around and ignores it?

An organization ran by Man. Man is fallible. It happens. Says so, right in the Bible.

I'm still looking for a Catholic that will tell me that when Popes have been deposed by various rulers, who then elevated their chosen Successor to the Papacy; that is actually in line with Apostolic Succession.

Where is the part in the Bible where Jesus or a disciple said "Make patron saints for different stuff"?

Or the premise of apostolic descent?

Or infant "baptism"?

Or chaste clergy?  Indulgences?  Auto de fe?

Truth.

The Catholic light has had a lamp shade over it since Constantine, but the DeMedici popes were a straight up crime syndicate.
The 'scandals' we see today are just afterglow. The 'church' became a profane caricature of itself with the DeMedicis.